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1978 Pennsylvania gubernatorial election

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pennsylvania gubernatorial election, 1978

← 1974 November 7, 1978 (1978-11-07) 1982 →
Dick Thornburgh 1978.jpg
Nominee Dick Thornburgh Pete Flaherty
Party Republican Democratic
Running mate Bill Scranton III Robert Casey
Popular vote 1,966,042 1,737,888
Percentage 52.4% 46.4%

Pennsylvania Gubernatorial Election Results by County, 1978.svg
County Results

Thornburgh:      40-50%      50-60%      60-70%      70-80%

Flaherty:      40–50%      50–60%      60–70%

Governor before election

Milton Shapp

Elected Governor

Dick Thornburgh

The Pennsylvania gubernatorial election of 1978 was held on November 7, 1978 between Republican Dick Thornburgh and Democrat Pete Flaherty.

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  • ✪ Grabbing Back: Women in the Age of Trump | all about women 2018


>> We have such a conversation to have today and three remarkable women to do it with, as you can see. Grabbing back, women in the age of Trump. And we're going to be looking at some of the key questions regarding the Trump presidency, like, how? What happened? What's continuing to happen? What will happen? I think that enough will keep us going. We're going to look at the contrast between a public belittling and a private and technologically fueled uprising and we're going to try to work out if any of those are in any way linked. My name is Julia Beard [assumed spelling]. I write and do various things and one of the things I do do is go back and forth to the States where I've tapped into the struggles of Americans around the Trump presidency. I was at, as I was telling Francesca before, I was at the meeting where -- the New York Times editorial meeting, where they grilled Donald Trump about his policies for an hour. I was sitting next to him and I was trying to work out the hair and the eyes. No one ever talks about the eyes actually because they're kind of pure white. He handed out ratings -- he handed out his ratings and his audience views, he talked about how well he did on the Apprentice. Wasn't that strong on a lot of policy. And when I came back to New York the next time just a few months later so many people I knew were heavily medicated and my friends who were therapists were fully booked out, including with couples therapy, which I thought was fascinating if people disagreed on this. But who we're hearing from today are these three women, these three strong voices in America. And Francesca Donna has been fantastic, from the New York Times, is a director of what's called "The Gender Initiative." Which was in the pipeline for quite some time and it aims to elevate the views, the diverse views of diverse groups of women in the newsroom and through all the various platforms the New York Times operates on, but it came out, it launched just as the Harvey Weinstein story was breaking, which was incredibly fortuitous, and she's been very very busy ever since then. Sophia Nelson is a long term moderate republican, as we've discussed before. Someone who wrestles with being a republican. She's written a book. Her latest book, E Pluribus ONE, about what the founding fathers and their vision for a united America. How that was fraught at the time, indeed remains fraught now. And she's also a best seller author, a journalist based in DC who is a corporate diversity champion award winner, a global motivational speaker. Fran Leibowitz is a patron saint of all nocturnal people, of the literary minded and she says of the slothful. Though I'm yet to be entirely convinced as she's flown all this way to talk to us about the patron saint of people who believe that words and ideas matter. She's also the author of the bestselling essay collections, Metro Politian Life and Social Studies. And I would recommend to all of you, if you have not seen the documentary that Martin Scorsese did of her life in 2010, where he basically placed the microphone in front of you, look it up, it is really fantastic. So, everyone, if we can please just welcome these three women. [ Applause ] I want to start first of all by asking each of you where you were at the moment you discovered Donald Trump was going to be the president of the United States and what was running through your mind at that moment. Francesca? >> Hi. >> Hi. >> First of all, great question. So, it's always very interesting to be in a newsroom actually when these things are happening, because you get to say that you're at work, so you're sort of processing things in a slightly different way, which is what's the front page going to look like tomorrow, what's the story going to be, what's the headline, what photograph are we going to choose. But I think along with so many people we were quite surprised. The start of the day we had a certain opinion about what the front page was going to look like 24 hours from now and that was certainly reflected in our news meeting, which we have around 9:30 in the morning. And I do know that over the course of the day we were so certain about what was going to happen that we even sort of set a front page with a different person featured in the photo. >> We all remember it, we remember the needle with [inaudible]. >> Yes, so I think that was sort of a radical switch that we had to make in our heads and realise this is what's going on, but at that the same time being in a newsroom you're covering it, you're doing a job, you got to get the story and we had to get it fast. And, so, to me it was sort of, wow, thesis happening and a lot of surprise, but also, we've got to get the job done. So it was a lot of sort of manic get this done. >> Right. >> And a lot of, you know, there's so much preparation work that goes into things and you sort of prewrite a whole lot of stories when you think something is a sure thing and then the sure thing is not a sure thing. And then you change. And that was a busy busy day as you can imagine. >> What about you, Sophia? >> I'm going to answer the question in two ways. I was on air on Hardball and we were watching the returns come in and it became apparent that there was a problem. And depending on what perspective you were coming from, I by the way grew up with Kelly and Conway who's Trump was his campaign manager and we're 12 days apart in age actually, so I know her quite well. So, I was watching and I begin to text with some people in the Clinton campaign and they said, "Don't worry, we're going to hold. It's Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. Those are the firewall." Well, when Pennsylvania fell I said, "What are you doing now?" Michigan and Wisconsin. Well, we all know what happened. So, but when I knew Donald Trump was going to win the election, happened in September of 2016, I live in Virginia and I live on the border between West Virginia and Virginia, so it's more rural out near Dulles Airport if you've ever been to the States. And I was coming back from a conference. I have a convertible, I'm driving with the top down, it's autumn, it's good and I'm taking the back routes, which is more rural and I see nothing but Trump signs in every state I go through and I said, "Oh, my goodness, Trump's going to win this election." And I remember going home and telling my friends and family, they were like, "You're stupid, Sophia, he's not going to win the election." I'm like, you didn't' see what I saw through parts of Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland and Virginia they were big Trump signs. They weren't little, they were big. And I thought, something's -- we're missing something, we're disconnected, he's tapped into something. So, I knew this was not going to go in the right direction in September. So, that's my experience on it. >> Fran, and in New York, I remember in 2008 when Obama was -- I was there when he was elected and there was dancing in the streets. I went up to Harlem and there was such a feeling of effervescent hope and joy. How was it when Trump was elected? >> Less joy. And I wasn't in Harlem, but a lot less joy in Harlem. Every presidential election, the night, I go to a friend's house, you know, we watch it on TV, we have dinner, so there have been good ones and bad ones. There were two Obama good ones, there were two George Bush, very bad ones. But the day of this election the whole day I was in a fantastic news and this is something that happens maybe once a decade. >> Was there a reason for it? >> Yes, I thought, it's over, you know. It was a year. I thought, it's over and we're not going to see Trump anymore, you know. And at the time I lived in SoHo and I was meeting a friend of mine who lived in the village, we vote in the same place. We met, we voted, we went to lunch. The streets were -- this is, you know, like 1 in the afternoon of the day, the streets are filled with happy people. We're already happy, because it's over. And because we do actually think this neighbourhood this is the world. We go to lunch, everyone's in a good mood. As I'm walking, actually, up West Broadway, there's a restaurant on the other side of the street which I don't like, I never go to, but which I knew actually that Harvey Weinstein was having an after party there, a victory party for Clinton, after the big party for, you know, the people who don't give $10 million to Hilary Clinton, that was at the Javits Centre. And I was not invited to this party, but I thought, I'm going to crash this party. Because I want to go to this party. And, so, I see the guys from the restaurant putting these velvet ropes out. This is 1 in the afternoon. So, the waiter's putting the ropes out and I thought, I wonder if these guys recognise me, so I walk on that side and one of them goes, "Ms. Leibowitz, are you coming to the party afterwards?" I said, "Yes, I am." So, I went lunch. Everyone in the street was saying -- in fact, I ran into a friend of mine who used to be the editor of Time Magazine and he had, you know, his phone and he goes, he's telling me all his sources. You know, these guys they have all these sources, the sources are all wrong. Oh, she's going to have 400 million electro votes. I go to my friend's house. Everybody was in a fantastic mood. Everybody. And there was champagne. This is before dinner, everybody's drinking champagne, everyone's having a fantastic time. The TV was on in the kitchen, but we were eating in the dining room, the kitchen -- but you had to go in the kitchen and get the food. So, I'm in the kitchen, everyone's fantastic time, I go out -- I have to prefaces this by saying, in case I already have not spoken long enough, that there are three days of my life where I remember every second. Okay? So, I've already edited this down, if it seems like it's been long. And I'm going to spare you the other two days, but I remember every second of the day of the Kennedy assassination, okay, and I was 13 years old, and I can tell you what I was wearing. I will not. I remember every second of September 11. And I remember every second of this night and I will never forget it. To me it was as traumatic as those other two days. And at a certain point I go into the kitchen to get some food and they have the map, you know, the blue and red map up and I looked and I said, "What's that?" And I think, oh, it's too early. So, I go back and eat, I come back out, I look at it. Well, they did something. I don't know what TV network this was, they're not supposed to call a state before every poll is closed across the country. They're not supposed to do that, but they were doing it. So, as soon as I start looking at it a guy who's at dinner comes in, he sits down and this pall falls. Everyone's looking. And at a certain point when it became like apparent, and I'm sure apparent is the right word, but there was a high chance -- this friend of mine, a very distinguished eminent presence in New York said, "I'm going home, I have to go home and take drugs." So, not only is this a distinguished man, he's also, you know, a man of a certain age. What do you mean take drugs. He said -- I said, you know, 60 years of this job. He goes, "I can't take this." And he left. When I left later, you know, the streets in these neighbourhoods are always full of people. On a regular Tuesday night at 3 in the morning the streets were empty. Empty. It was just like the night of September 11, exactly like that. The streets were empty, you know, and I went home and I have not recovered at all. By the way, not in one bit have I changed, my feelings have not changed. I haven't gotten used to it, you know, I have not adapted to it, I'm not as flexible as you might imagine. And I'm not adapting to it. >> Did you feel it as a physical shock? Like a lot of people seemed to -- >> I was completely in shock. Also, I spent an entire year, the year of the campaign, I spent the entire year going around the country saying to people, "don't worry there's zero chance he could win. Zero." You know. And the truth is that, you know, people always say, "New Yorkers are so provincial." And I always say, "Yeah, but it's New York." So, it's you who are a provincial, we're not provincial, we just don't pay attention to you. And there's why. Okay? And truthfully I don't care what these people want. I know you're not allowed to say that, you know, but when people say, you know -- I tell you what I was really sick of, I was really sick of men telling me what Hillary Clinton did wrong. I was super sick of that. And as they tell you and I kept saying to people, you know, Trump didn't win because he did something right, Trump won because he did something wrong. So, it's a crazy thing to say. But I was also very angry at Bernie Sanders, who I hated from the beginning. I know that's against the law, you know. I mean, the year before the election, you know, whenever I would say I would hate Bernie Sanders I would get booed by my own audience, people who paid to see me. They would boo me. You know. And I like think to myself, you know, I understand how a college student might be fooled by this guy, you know, you're on college, he says college should be free, you love him. You know, I mean, you know, if someone say, you know, apartments in Manhattan should be free, I'm voting for you. But I also think college should be free, by the way, you know, but what free means is we pay for it. Which is fine, use my money for that. Don't give it all to Bill Gates, you know. I felt Sanders really demonised her, you know, Bernie Sanders. And also, you know, what I would say about him was, what kind of person leaves New York when they're 18? Okay. >> I think it's the wrong direction, right. >> That's the wrong direction. Okay, so, that's who he was. And when people, especially young women, you know, would say to me, "But I don't like Hillary Clinton, I don't like her." I would say, "So what." Don't worry, she's not going to call you. >> Right. >> You don't have to like the president. >> Right. >> You have to like your friends, that's it. >> What did you attribute that to, the fact that the debate became reduced to her likeability, because a lot of democrats afterwards were saying, "We just should not have put her up as a candidate." There was this kind of sober realism that unfair or not and deeply sexist or not, that that made the democrats vulnerable. >> That is because, you know, people feel they should like the president. You know, that's one of the reasons Bush won. You know, because people didn't like John Kerry. You know. And I would say to people, you know, I had a doorman who voted for George Bush. And I said, "What are you talking about, you're in a union? How could you vote for George Bush, you know?" He goes, "But I don't like John Kerry." And I thought, you know, I know John Kerry, I don't like him either, but don't worry about it, Greg, you're not going to hear from him. You know, I mean, so that, you know, we think -- when I say we I mean them, I mean Americans. They think that the president should be charming, that he should like the president, like he's an entertainment figure. You know, which is why when Oprah Winfrey makes a speech that everyone likes everyone says, "Oprah Winfrey should be the president." You know. and my feeling when that happened was I really hope Oprah Winfrey does not want to be the president, because there's no question that she could be the president, because she's the most popular person in the country. The truth is, the most popular person in the country's always an entertainer. You know, most popular person in the country used to be Elvis Presley. Doesn't mean he'd be a good president. >> Sophia, if I can come back to you on a question of, it was presented as not just shock and such a surprise, and there's questions about what the media got wrong and how polling went wrong, which are fairly serious analytical questions. But you believe in some ways it was a natural trajectory, but Trump is understandable. Can you explain that? >> Well, you got to go back 25 years of the Republican Party, starting with Ronald Reagan, then father Bush and then W, and then ultimately you get Donald Trump. And the republican party since -- take the 1960 election is where the sea change happens where John F. Kennedy calls Coretta Scott King and he gets the first time of the democrat the majority of black votes, although Nixon was still getting 40 some % of black voters. But as each republican election went past Jerry, Ford and onto Reagan, that black vote and colour vote dropped significantly for the republican party so that Donald Trump would be the natural growth out of this didn't' surprise me and people of colour at all in America, because, let's face it, he ran very openly and said things that a lot of people were thinking. Demographics is really at the core of what happened in the 2016 election. In any culture in civilisation on earth, dating back to the Garden of Eden, whenever there is a demographic shift, you saw it with Brexit, you're seeing nationalism occurs. The majority in America is Caucasian, there's a backlash. Now, Van Jones called it white lash. I don't' know if you heard that. and I know that may be offensive to some, but step out the box and understand that whether it's immigration, whether it's black lives matter, people of colour, there's a fear. I hear this where I live in America all the time where the people who have guns, confederate flags -- we just had a big debate in America over keeping confederate statues and honouring them and flags and guns. There is a big segment in my country that does not like the direction of women, the way women are going, the way people of colour are going, the way that things are going. And there's fear, it's real palpable fear our jobs have been lost. Our country is going, our country -- you like those words. I want my country back. That's a very common refrain when you get below the Mason Dixon Line. And the Rustbelt, which is where Trump did very well. So it's a lot more complicated than just to say we didn't like Hillary. Hillary had 25 years of public life that qualified her in every way to be president of the United States. But her likeability factor was a problem from the moment she became first lady. They just didn't know how to deal with a strong, smart, self-assured woman. She should be president based on qualifications alone. There's nobody that was more qualified than her, but Trump won I believe because two things, demographics and the fear of a woman -- white males, I want to be polite when I say this, white men were not having it. It was mad enough that we just had this black man be president for 8 years. Let me just go on and say it. It was bad enough. Now we're going to have a woman too, I don't think so. So there was a -- the media played a roll. I thought the way she was treated was horrific. We never would treat a man the way we treated her. Whether you like her or not or wanted to vote for her is not the issue. So, it's demographics one. And then the second part of this in America is Trump is a reality TV figure. And unfortunately we like that. We like the House Wives of Atlanta. I don't know if you know about them here. We like that kind of trash. We like that he'll something -- the media loved him because ratings went through the roof, and the media knew if he became president ratings would go through the roof. And guess what, they have. We talk about him non-stop 24 hours a day in America. We can't even keep up with our own news cycle. That's my opinion. >> But you talked about demographics. How do you -- [ Applause ] What are we to make of the fact that white women voted for him? >> You know, I'm not a white woman, I'm a woman of colour. 90% of black women voted for Hillary Clinton. 53% of white women voted for Donald Trump. It tells a story -- we were talking about this behind and I want to know what you think about this, that the gender discrimination, colorism, whatever within gender, white women see things one way, women of colour another. Nowhere was that more stark than in the election of 2016, but I think that those white women voted for their husband's economic interest. You know what I mean when I say that? They're married, you got to break it down. Look, they judged Roy Moore, a child molester of girls, women of faith holding press conferences defending this guy. We got a long way to go as women. We do. [ Applause ] >> Can I say -- >> Help us to understand that vote. Yes. >> Can I say a few things about the white women, which I think, you know, after all this happened the Times was asking questions, sort of what -- how can we unpack that for our readers, because it felt -- it felt a bit surprising to us. And we have a wonderful journalist at the time whose name was Susanne Charron, she went out through the country and really tried to find a lot of white women who had voted for Trump and really understand what it was and what were some of the things that came up. So, the first thing is so clearly we've all been kind of circling around, which is, I didn't want to vote for her. So that was some part of the reason. But there were also these other things, which were my religious freedom, my religious ability to express myself. That might be impinged. Concerns about abortion, concerns about healthcare, which people felt was just too expensive. And I think also we really can't forget the fact there was an opening on the Supreme Court at that time and whether Hillary Clinton filled it or Donald Trump filled it, was really really material was going to have massive impact on the country and the direction that things took. So, and I think the economy was also a big thing and this sort of idea of, you know, if you just look at the slogan that Trump had, Make America Great Again. This idea of sort of bringing it back to a time of -- not quite sure what time it was that people wanted -- >> 1953. >> bring it back to. >> That was the dream. Vote for me it will be 1953 again. >> Yeah. >> Giuliani did the same thing when he ran for mayor the first time. >> But it was never labelled as such. There was sort of this idea of going back to this sort of comfort place that things felt sort of safe and good again, but for who, right? So, I don't know, I think sort of really trying to unpack and understand those stories and really sort of get inside their heads and say< "Why was this important to you?" >> But look at what's happened post Trump's presidency the last year. Race in America has never -- I'm too -- I'm not old enough to remember to civil rights movement, but I can't believe what I've seen happen at UVA in Charlottesville. Young white men, these aren't old bitter white men carrying flags and confederacy things, these are young men in their 20s marching with torches, shouting anti-Semitic things in the open, with Nazi-ism and these are not fringe crazy guys. These are your boy next door, they go to college, they're educated. There's something really ugly afoot. >> They're stupid. >> I'm sorry. >> Stupid, stupid. Trump's appeal is he's stupid. And you -- I mean I agree with you about Reagan, but to me, you know, it's that Reagan was a template for the stupid president. Before Reagan there was no idea the president could be stupid. We hated Nixon, but no one thought he was stupid, we just thought he was evil. You know, until Reagan it never occurred to us the president could also be stupid. So, you have Reagan, the stupid president, you have George W. Bush, the even dumber president. And you have Sarah Palin, very important, Donald Trump. So, it got to the point where obviously, you know, the president can't be stupid. You know, it makes people feel good, you know. Because most people also stupid. And, you know, whenever people say, you know, about, you know, Trump is crazy, I say, "He's a little crazy." You know, but mostly he's dumb. And his appeal, I think his appeal, was almost entirely racist. I watched those rallies, his campaign rallies and I am old enough. And they reminded me exactly of George Wallace rallies. And I kept saying to people, "George Wallace ran for the presidency on the segregation ticket. Segregation now, segregation forever. And the rallies were exactly the same. They were Klan rallies. You know? So, I believe the people who voted for Trump, who still like him, even though he did not reopen the coal mines, even though they're never going to get reopen, you know, they're not going to be working on the Ford line for $30 an hour ever again and they know it. It's enough for them that they can express their bigotry. That is more important to them than their own lives. >> The sad thing is though, they don't see it that way. Again, I live in Virginia. Northern Virginia's not the same as below Richmond, Virginia, but out west where I am, which is on the West Virginia border it is a lot of what you said. And they do not see this as a race issue at all. You can talk about it until you're blue in the face, that will not be conceded. They really believe is their institutions are under attack, their country is under attack. And I try to explain to people the very notion that you would say that something is yours, that it belongs to you and not to everyone else in America is in and of itself pretty racist. And if you can't figure that out I really can't help you. >> But that's just as stupid. >> Yeah, well, it's just not going to happen. It's not propagated. >> Can I -- can I also -- can I just -- >> Yes. >> Sorry. I mean, also to add to the racist issue is also the gender issue. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, it's quite remarkable actually that over the course of the campaign these allegation of sexual abuse bubbled up again and again, comments that I can't repeat right now on TV were uttered. Also denied, but we had them on tape. And none of this was a deal breaker for all of these white women who voted for him anyway. So, can I just ask you, friend, we've seen, we discussed the emboldening of, you know, the white supremacist and other groups during the time that Donald Trump has been president. What has happened to women, do you think, what are we witnessing amongst women? >> I'm sorry, in what way? >> As in technologically, as in the discussion around assault and kind of an anger around sexism, women becoming a lot more vocal and active and -- >> I know a lot of people think it's related to Trump, I don't. >> You don't? >> No. Not at all. You know, I don't think the need to movement is related to Trump. I think it was almost chance, you know, and just incredibly lucky and something I never, it never occurred to me it would change. I mean, as surprised by this as I was by Trump election, you know, because it's been, you know, the way women are treated by men has been the same, you know, in 1512, 1612, 1812, 1912. And then in nine weeks it changed. You know, and, you know, I think in the case of Harvey, for instance -- >> Yeah. Who you know, you know some of these [inaudible]. >> I know very well -- I know all these guys. I know 90% of the, you know, and I knew all these stories about Harvey, but I never heard the rape stories. Of all the stories, most of which I knew, and most of which everyone knew, and when you see these actors saying, "I never heard about this," just a lie. Okay? But the rape, the criminal aspect of it I never heard either. You know. And I never, you know, but the truth is Harvey's business, not the sexual assault business, which he had on the side that I didn't know about, but he -- >> Yeah. >> The movie business, it was in decline. It never would have happened before that. Don't kid yourself. Harvey was, you know, standing on top of that now and in control of every Academy Award. No one said a word, okay. So, he was vulnerable to that. Because, just the way in Hollywood, as soon as you start to slip, that's it, they go after you, no matter what. And I think that's why he was vulnerable and then it was just incredibly wonderful cascading thing one after another. Like all the guys you couldn't stand the most wouldn't -- it was really -- it wasn't as great as Trump being the president, but was pretty nice. >> Do you agree that those -- I mean, because the Time's have been reporting on Weinstein, which was the trigger moment for me to form, you know, for quite some time. How do you view the time of Trump and the rise up of the [inaudible] movement. Okay, so, there's a lot to that. But I think -- I think that the political backdrop really did actually have an impact one everything that was going on. I think that all of these sort of movements as they were occurring started to sort of lay the groundwork for me too. So, you had black lives matter, then you had Trump being elected and then a whole lot of women said, "My goodness, look at what's just happened." And then too, by the way, a lot of women and men said, "What just happened?" So then you started to see the rise of these marches. Then you had the Harvey reporting that was going on at the New York Times, the Harvey story breaks. It's huge, it's radical and major, because these stories have kind of been bubbling around the edges for years and decades and no one ever really able to do anything about it. or stories that were, you know, you know, incidence that were brought to the police were sort of disappeared or, you know, money was thrown at the problem and lawyers were thrown at the problem and all manner of kind of quashing what was happening. So you had the Harvey story that breaks. And then the stage is really set by all of that that had come before with the marches that people felt that I actually can speak out and suddenly you had the me too thing, where all of these small -- not small to the individual, but where all of these individual stories were being told. These stories that might have been whispered to your friend in confidence or possibly, you know, maybe you tell your mum or whatever that they were so small and maybe someone would believe you and maybe they didn't. Suddenly you have these things that were just blasting out on social media and the whispers became as what I think of as a roar. And you could not put all of those me too stories back in the box after that. >> I also think it helped that people like Selma Hayek came out in "Lupita Nyong'o, and some of the most famous actresses in the world saying -- or those who got stalled and now we know why their careers stalled. It's happened to women in this room, it's happened to those of us up here where you pissed off the wrong guy for whatever reason and you paid a price for it. But one of the things that we haven't talked about that I think is critical dimension up here is the Christian evangelical alignment with Donald Trump. It is the most stunning, appalling thing to me. I've written a lot about it over the last number of weeks, I just had a piece -- there's this book out in America right now called, "The Faith of Donald Trump," and Brody and these guys, and I just dissembled that whole thing in an article that I wrote about. It's fake faith. And I hate to call somebody's faith fate, but I read this scripture that says faith without works is dead. So therefore, if you can treat -- the way he talks on Twitter alone is problematic. But the white evangelical Christian movement, which is always has roots in the Republican Party and is conservative, you go back to Reagan and daddy Bush, the Christian coalition, they've kind of been revived again through Donald Trump. Here's a man I haven't seen go to church once, once since he's been president. He calls it two Corinthians, instead of second Corinthians, he doesn't have a clue what scripture actually means, he's the most ungodly man I've ever seen and they love him. So, again it goes back to this fringe element within the new Republican Party that has infected it in a way that it's not the party of Lincoln anymore, it's not Dwight Eisenhower's Republican Party anymore. It's a very different republican party and I just think that race is the subtext and gender, because in the evangelical world, women -- you've seen Beth Moore, people like that in the southern Baptist movement where women are trying to push down. You had Christine Caine, one of your own from here who's amazing, she's one of the voices where they've been loud about how women get treated in the church. And, so, it is -- Trump is really tapped into all the elements of sexism and racism and it's simply unbelievable that he's the president of the United States of America. It's very sobering. [ Applause ] >> It was fascinating to watch how quickly may two became church two. >> Yes. >> And if you analysed what was being said in church -- >> Great hashtag. >> -- to was domestic abuse actually. >> Absolutely. >> So it was very much what was happening in the homes, which kind of erupted. But then what happens with all of this, what happens with these stories and this dissent. A re you hopeful, Fran, about the future and where to for here, particularly in the wake of this agitation? >> You mean about me too movement? >> Yep. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure helpful is the word you're looking for, but I've never actually thought about that concept, so I can't really answer. But, there's certain things that are not going to go back, that is for sure. For me I would prefer that people concentrated less on movie stars, you know, who are at any rate not the most generally admirable people on the face of the planet Earth. And more about women who work at McDonalds, you know, women who work in factories, women who make beds in hotels who are the slaves of the janitor on that floor. You know, who can't say anything because they make $6 an hour and they need to make that $6. Those are the people that these female movie stars who are now in a better position, if that was possible, they should concentrate on those women. Because that is the thing that is really important, you know. You don't have to be a movie star if you don't want to be, but everyone wants to be, but if you're making beds in a hotel you have to do that. You know, and you -- people, men that they are under the thumb of are sometimes 20 year old boys, you know, who are the night manager at their Burger King, you know. These stories are truly horrible. You know, but I actually think it's not going to go back, but I also do not think that you're going to turn around and find out that women own these companies. Because that's the power. You know, the power in the United States it's the power, you know, of capitalism. Who owns it. You know, whose house is it. Who can say, get out of my house. You know, and that's men. So, you know, in the corporate world, which I'm obviously not that familiar with and would have done very poorly in, of course, you know, it's men who run everything. You know, I have a friend who always says, "Men, they own the joint." And that's true about whatever the joint is, you know. As far as what you were saying before about the evangelicals, it's abortion, that's all they care about. You know, I mean, they care about that a 100%, that's why they wanted what's his name in the Supreme Court. You know, they are obsessed with abortion. Not with babies. It's not like these guys care about babies, it's about women. You know, as far as I'm concerned, I don't care what any man thinks about abortion. I have zero interest. I don't think the father should get to say. Unless you're pregnant, I don't really care, you know. [ Applause ] I mean, Barney Frank, who was a fantastic congressman from Massachusetts, he's retired, Barney Frank once said, "Republicans, they only care about human life from conception to birth, after that you're on your own." >> You know, just to say, we're just about to open it up to questions, so if you can just get ready to think about that and we have two microphones here and here, but if I can just get each of you to respond to what Fran was saying and also the question of whether -- what you think all of this means. >> Well, my hope is, we were talking about this in the greenroom, we've got to start having a conversation about our boys, our brothers, our sons, our husbands, etc. The issue -- it's great to focus on me too and what's happened to us as women. But if you don't change the behaviour of men, it ain't going to get better. And the only way we do that is we have to start teaching boys from the time we're little how to value women and respect them as equals and not to -- you know how in schools a little boy likes you he pulls your hair and there's this aggressive behaviour. He really wants to kiss you, but he hits you. It's kind of crazy, right, but we know that's been happening forever, so we have to teach boys and men to value women, otherwise this does not change. That is a critical part of this conversation that we're not having. >> Yeah, yeah. [ Applause ] >> Okay, to respond to both of you as best I can. So, I agree with you, we need to be having this conversation with boys and girls as well. This is not a one sided conversation. And we need to work out how we interact with one another. I think that the really great things that has come about because of this is a lot of men, at least men I know, are having the conversation and wondering, what does my behaviour mean. What does it mean if I do this or don't do that or how does it feel when someone says something like this to you? And really asking themselves how do I operate in this workplace now. And I think that's a question that a lot of women have asked themselves, but not a lot of men. So I'm really excited to see that happening with a lot of men. And then also to just draw on your point. I'm so glad you raised the millions of women who are doing anonymous, unexciting, not very sexy jobs, who are doing incredibly hard work, who cannot speak out about what is happening, because it really could in fact endanger them. And I think one of the things we were trying to do at the Times is really start telling those stories. Fine, it started at the top, it started on, you know, red carpets and glamour and perhaps that helped this become a story that people could latch onto, because you know who all of these stars were and you had seen them and you felt an element of familiarity with them because you'd seen them in so many movies. But I think now we have to really really think about what this means for the ordinary person and what places and jobs that every single level it's essential. >> And is this where you're trying to drive the reporting as well? I mean, I've noticed the Times has been doing -- >> Yeah. >> -- common factoring and so on, is that what [inaudible]? >> That's right, I think that's really important thing to cover. The other thing I really want to see us covering is really looking at sort of what is next for women. There's a lot, a lot, a lot more women running for political office this year. Their numbers are just extraordinary. >> Looked at what happened in Virginia in 2017, the old Dixie South, the confederacy was headquartered in Virginia and women running changed the landscape. That state is very blue now. Women who never -- we had one lady who was transgender when Danica -- I think her name's Danica, I don't remember her name -- but she beat this conservative republican guy who refused to even acknowledge her during a debate talk, talk to her. And she beat him. And he's been in office 30 years. >> Right. >> So, people it's changing -- >> I think that's a really big story to watch and let's see what happens in this election. >> Are you going to run, Sophia? >> Someday, sure. >> Yeah, as an independent? Yes. As an independent? >> I'll probably run as a republican, but I'll change the Republican Party. I worked for Christy Whitman, which you had in your intro. She was the first female governor of New Jersey. And there are the moderates will get the party back, because Trump will do such damage to the GOP that it will have to start over again. I believe that goals. And so goals. >> All right, just opening it up to questions now. If I could go to you, number 3, yes? >> Lucky first. I'm a bit short. I just had a question about democracy in the US in the state of women within that. At the recent conservative conference leading republic woman, Mona -- I've forgotten her last name. >> Sharron. >> Sharron. She was booed on stage because she criticised Trump. And I was just wondering, where does that leave women's voices within the republican movement, are they being drowned out, and what does that mean for the state of democracy. Is any criticism just shut down? >> Well, I'll take that. You remember during the election in 2016 when the tape came out. There were Nikki Haley, the UN -- I'm really surprised he put her in the cabinet. That shocked me. Because she was unequivocally tough on him and she made a statement about what he said as did what over 200 some republicans did, a lot of them women. But once he won it was a different ball game. And, so, I think that what's happening in the GOP now is people are telling -- Paul Ryan, good friend of mine 25 years, I just don't know what to say. I've never seen anything like the power he seems to have over these people not to say what's right and what's wrong. I'm not sure I know what that's about, but I do think that again after 2020, if Trump is not reelected, which I pray god he is not, but if he is not reelected in 2020 -- >> You don't think he will be, Fran? >> I don't think he'll be in office then. >> We'll see, we'll see. But, that's a fair point with the investigations. That's another topic we can talk about. I think that 2020s going to tell us a lot. If he gets reelected, wow, I don't know what to say what that means. But I think the Republican Party's going to be in a lot -- it's in trouble, but it's going to be really damaged when he's done. Really damaged. >> The question being the big tent. Right? And revival of that. Yes? Over there, hi. >> Hello, sorry, I'm short too. >> I think maybe the microphone stands are tall. >> They're angled for men. >> I didn't hear what she said. I didn't hear. >> Actually I wanted to say something. I do have a question, I promise. I just wanted to say something, interestingly you talked about me too, but for the average woman, I was talking to you bringing it up, because I thought it was really important because we focus on these celebrities. But we kind of get lost in the conversation about the average woman and I realise that my mother happened -- that sort of stuff happened to her when I was -- when she was at work and it started happening to me. A year ago when I told her about it she said, "Oh, that happened to me, it just happens." And since me too she encouraged me to come forward and I did and I found out that someone who was touching me inappropriate in the work place was touching 11 plus girls in the workplace and he got fired because I reported him. [ Applause ] And I did it because my mum supported me in it for the first time. But what I wanted to ask you guys was, "Why do you think this conversation about what's happening in America and happening with Trump and American women, why do you think it's important for us, Australians, but specifically Australian women to talk about? What are the implications in our lives in Australia?" I know it's -- you guys, half o you are American, but, you know, why is this an important conversation from your perspective for us to be having in other countries? >> Are you interested in the whole panel? >> I don't know. >> Okay, just a quick answer to me. Thank you. >> Sorry. Good on you and your mother. Yes. >> Okay, so to respond -- >> Well first, is it me, I mean, you've just landed here, but what does it mean -- >> Two really -- two really quick things. Firstly, Trump is fascinating. And as you pointed out earlier, we talk about him all the time and I think he's fascinating everywhere in the world and one of our jobs is to try and sort of explain what is going on with Trump to everybody, even though we're trying to figure it out daily. So, that's one thing. But then to really touch on your sexual harassment issues, and by the way, thank you for sharing those stories, because it's really really brave. >> Good for you. >> So, to just touch on that, I think that is absolutely relevant, it's relevant everywhere, because I am pretty sure that people here in the workplace are dealing with the same issues that we're dealing with in workplaces and across the US. We've got leadership issues, we've got pay parity issues, we've got pipeline problems. We have a lot of things that need to be sorted out and this is really the start of that conversation. So, I think that, you know, at least for sort of what places in the US, Australia, UK, parts of Europe, I mean, these are questions that we need to be happening right now. So, yes, it is relevant. >> I think the reason it's so important is that, you know, I wrote my second book, "The Woman Code," is really about the connexions between women. And there's something really fabulous about being a woman. And we don't say that enough and we don't understand that we have a lot of power and that power comes from within, knowing our value and our worth. And, so, I think America, again, we tend to be the centre of attention, whether, you know, we take it, we're the centre of attention. And I think that, you know, it's important for women here in Australia and the UK and Africa and Asia and India and everywhere else to understand that they have a voice to and they can do exactly what you did. It takes a spark to get a fire started and you're seeing it happen with these women in Hollywood and regular work. Steve Wynn, the mogul, the casino mogul got brought down for his conduct. Apparently he had raped a woman, impregnated her back in the 60s. So, he's been doing this for a long time. And now women are saying, "I'm telling my story." And I want every woman and man in this room to know that your story, sharing your story can actually change and save lives when you tell the truth and you take your power back. And that's why I think it's so important. To take our power back as women. [ Applause ] >> Fran, did you want to respond to that? >> To which? >> To the question about -- >> I really -- I really couldn't hear her. >> Oh, okay. Do you know what -- >> Did she ask why is it important to the rest of the world about Donald Trump? Because who the president of the United States affects the entire world. You know, right after the election an Italian friend of mine said to me, "It will be okay, you know, we had Berlusconi, that was awful too." I said, "Yes, Berlusconi was horrible for the Italians, but Trump's going to be horrible for the whole world." You know, and it is important. It's not just that it seems important or that people pretend that it's important, it's really important. Donald Trump does something like spectacularly idiotic, you know, like putting tariffs on steel, you know, and it's going to affect everybody in the entire world. And, so, even the other republicans, you know, the regular republicans who you seem to like, but I -- [inaudible] Paul Ryan is a good person, a good republican. You know, Paul Ryan he can't wait to get rid of Medicare. There are -- you know, republicans are of course conventionally against this kind of thing because it's bad for business. Okay, so if people are surprised that Trump does something bad for business, that's because there's still apparently people who think Trump was a business man. But he never was. He was just a cheap hustler. Okay? The real-estate guys in New York, who are not your most thrilling people on the planet Earth, they look down on him. Okay? They didn't' vote for him, the real developers, okay? So, it's not at all surprising to me. It's very dangerous when there's a very president in the United States, it's dangerous to the world. We're still at war in Afghanistan, because we had a really bad president after September 11th, okay? If Al Gore had been the president we would have invaded Afghanistan, why would we have? Okay. He knew where it was, okay. But George Bush didn't. All right. So, you know, it's very important who the president of the United States is, no matter where you live. That may not be something that you like, you may be like irritated, why, you know, am I in Australia and have to worry ab out who the president of the United States is, when no one in the United States, not only knows who the Prime Minister of Australia is, but even knows where it is. Okay? Including me. I was completely flabbergasted. It's really far. So, but -- >> The Prime Minister was just in America the [inaudible]. >> Yes, the Prime Minister was in the United States. I was like worried for six months about this plane trip and I saw on the news that he was at the White House and I called someone and said, "Do you know when he's going back?" Because I thought, I can get a ride with him. >> You know, the ride here was difficult. It was -- I'll never do that night right again, that was just frightening. It was just dark, dark, dark. And we hit turbulence and I was like, "Oh, hell, this is over, I'm going to die in the middle of the Pacific Ocean." >> But you didn't. >> I didn't. Thank god for that. >> We probably got time for just one more, but can I go down to you. Yes? >> Wondering what your views are on the NRA and Trump? >> Well, I'll start. [inaudible]. >> Your views on the NRA and Trump. >> As a former member of the NRA, again, in the south raised military family, guns are part of my life since I can remember. I believe strongly in the second amendment. I believe in all the amendments to the US Constitution. But there comes a point where you have to say, "Wait a minute, human life is more valuable." And what happened in Parkland with the shooting and the way that those young people have responded is amazing and corporations are reacting, sporting goods stores, whether it's Wal-Mart or Dick's, even Kroger. I had no idea Kroger sold guns at the grocery store in the south. Yes, and where I live in Virginia, for example, you can walk in any store, any gun shop, you get a background check, it takes them about 10 minutes. And the problem with background checks is, if I'm a sane person and I've not ever committed any crimes, it doesn't mean I might not go commit one after I go buy an arsenal weapons. And in Virginia you can literally buy hand grenades in a store. You can buy -- I'm not making this up, you can buy -- you can buy cache of weapons, tonnes of ammo and nobody's going to say anything to you. so, there comes a point all the polling data shows this in America, that the vast majority of Americans, including gun owners, like myself, and second amendment people, believe that we need some gun control. Believe that AR-15s are necessary to protect your home. A good shotgun will do the trick for you. So, you don't need to have the weapon that's going to go through the walls and kill the whole neighbourhood, that's not what you need. So, I think that we're going to see some movement, I think that Trump flip, flopped again. It looked like he was headed in the right direction and then the NRA came and had dinner at the White House and then he flipped. So, I'm not sure where we're going to end up, but I'm hopeful that republicans and democrats alike realise that the children's lives matter more -- we're not -- nobody's going to take our guns in America. That's just a stupid, dumb, ridiculous argument. It's not going to happen. But you don't need to have a weapon of mass destruction, is what I like to call it. So, I'm hopeful there'll be some reform that will save us from ever seeing something so horrible again. >> That won't happen. It won't happen. I don't believe in the second amendment, by the way. You know, I don't believe. [ Applause ] You know, by which I mean I don't believe that it means that individuals can have weapons. You know, I believe that it means what it says, which is, "You can raise a militia." The big fear of the founders was that someone declare themselves king. >> Right. >> You know, so I do not think that people should have guns. New York City has really strong gun laws. For instance, if you were found to have possession of a gun in New York you go to gaol for one year. Even if you didn't use it, you know. And I think that's a fantastic idea. So, I don't believe in the second amendment. I don't believe this is going to change. You know, the NRA when I was young was a hunting organisation. You know? I used to see their magazines, they would show people like hunting ducks. I'm not opposed to hunting, I eat animals. You know, one of the problems with the left is they started going against guns because of hunting. And I would argue with people, you know, saying, "You know, unless you're a vegan, in which case I probably don't know you that well, you know, I don't want to hear about ducks and rabbits, I don't want to hear about it." You know, I care about human beings. I don't think animals are equivalent to human beings. I'm sorry, I know you're supposed to care about it, but I don't. You know, and you are going to -- but no one hunts rabbits or whatever they eat with these guns. They use a long gun, a rifle, which you can't put in your pocket and get onto the subway with, because people would see it. So, you know, I've shot a handgun in my life, and the second you shoot a gun like that you know what it's for. It's for shooting human beings. That's what those guns are for. You know. And I would suggest the best way to protect yourself is to live in New York City and have a doorman. [ Applause ] >> If only it were that simple. If only we all could. Yes. So, I'm going to try and just sort of take a little bit of a different answer to your question to try and move it forward a bit. And I think, you know, we've talked a lot about activism, marches, all of this sort of ground work that has been laid since Trump became president, with, you know, the women's marches coming out. And I think what is really really interesting to see right now are these students are who teenagers who are coming out and saying -- just like women have said a few months ago, "Enough is enough, we're not going to stand for this. This is what we believe." In a few years' time they're going to be voters and, you know, they're coming out and they're marching and they're making their voices heard and frankly if you've listened to some of the speeches that they're giving, they're really very impressive. They're remarkably well spoken and poised and really making legitimate arguments that I think it's very hard to keep sort of just like the me too thing. It's very hard not to hear it. The noise is getting very loud. So, I think, you know, we sort of think a lot about sort of where is this going from here and we've had so many gun incidents in the US at, you know, what we call soft targets. It's not just schools, it's universities, it's -- oh, it's churches, it's supermarkets and movie theatres and, you know, the people who are in the line of fire are just the people who happen to be there at that moment. I mean, it's devastating. But I think these kids basically standing up and saying, "We've had enough and we're ready to do something," I think that's worth watching. [ Applause ] >> I feel so regretful that we've reached the end of the hour, I just want to pull out a bottle of whisky and keep going. But -- and everyone else could have something too, but. I'm so grateful for these women and their time. There's going to be -- Sophia's going to be signing books and you are afterwards, maybe, or after your talk. Anyways, couple of us signing books. I'm signing too about something not relevant, about a nasty woman who once lived in history. And I just want to take a moment to appreciate the three women that we have on this stage. [ Applause ] Hang on a minute. And just each of them, I just want to say, Francesca, thank you for the reporting that you were doing, that has reverberated around the world. It's been so crucial in amplifying the voices and concerns of women. And it has meant so much to all of us. Sophia, your voice as a woman of colour and moderate republican is crucial and we want you to run. We want to see you in the White House. So, let's wait to see if that ends up happening. And, Fran, you're just so fabulous, I'm glad you exist and I want -- [ Applause ] And I'm not the first person to say this, but, you know, you do belong on the Supreme Court and that would be fantastic, right? Anyway, finally, thanks to these women, see you in the lobby and thanks so much for your attention today. >> Thank you. [ Applause ]


Primary Elections



  • Bob Casey, Auditor General (from Lackawanna County)
  • Pete Flaherty, US Deputy Attorney General and former Mayor of Pittsburgh (from Allegheny County)
  • Ernie Kline, Lt. Governor (from Westmoreland County)
  • Jennifer Wesner, Mayor of Knox (from Clarion County)


  • Bob Butera, former State House Minority Leader (from Montgomery County)
  • Henry Hager, State Senate Minority Leader (from Lycoming County)
  • Alvin Jacobson, disabled former soldier (from Adams County)
  • Dave Marston, former US Attorney (from Montgomery County)
  • Arlen Specter, former Philadelphia District Attorney
  • Dick Thornburgh, former US Attorney (from Allegheny County)
  • Andrew Watson


The race began with a primary that slated an impressive field of candidates. Flaherty, the former Mayor of Pittsburgh who was known for providing a progressive challenge to urban machine politics, bested State Auditor General Bob Casey, who had lost the Democratic nomination for this office twice before. Casey's campaign was greatly hurt by the presence of another Bob Casey who was running on the ballot for Lieutenant Governor; voters apparently believed they were selecting a ticket of Flaherty and the Auditor General when they chose the Pittsburgh teacher as the Democratic running mate. Lieutenant Governor Ernie Kline, who was frequently known as "assistant governor" during his time in office due to his policy skills, was endorsed by outgoing governor Milton Shapp, but finished a distant third.

Thornburgh's win came over the Republican leaders of both houses of the state legislature (House Minority Leader Bob Butera and Senate Minority Leader Henry Hager), as well as a former US Attorney, Dave Marston. Former Philadelphia District Attorney and future senator Arlen Specter was considered the front-runner in the months preceding the primary, but the moderate urban Republican's campaign faded as Thornburgh presented himself as a leader than could bridge both wings of the party.[1]


Pennsylvania gubernatorial Democratic primary election, 1978[2]
Party Candidate Votes %
Democratic Pete Flaherty 574,899 44.89
Democratic Bob Casey 445,146 34.76
Democratic Ernie Kline 223,811 17.48
Democratic Jennifer Wesner 36,770 2.87
Pennsylvania gubernatorial Republican primary election, 1978[3]
Party Candidate Votes %
Republican Dick Thornburgh 325,376 32.63
Republican Arlen Specter 206,802 20.74
Republican Bob Butera 190,653 19.12
Republican Dave Marston 161,813 16.23
Republican Henry Hager 57,119 5.73
Republican Andrew Watson 48,460 4.86
Republican Alvin Jacobson 7,101 .71

Major party candidates




Flaherty out-polled Thornburgh by double-digit margins for much of the campaign, but the Republican candidate used highly effective strategies to close the gap in the weeks leading up to election night. Thornburgh was successful in recruiting suburban moderates, as fellow moderate Republican Specter encouraged his metro Philadelphia supporters to rally behind Thornburgh. In contrast, the liberal Flaherty had trouble reaching out to conservative Democrats outside of his Western Pennsylvania base, a problem hindered by Casey's tepid support for the candidate over the lieutenant gubernatorial issue. Thornburgh also aggressively courted traditionally Democratic-leaning groups and gained the endorsements of the NAACP and several labor unions. Democratic support slowly waned under this strategy, which allowed Thornburgh to take a close victory.[1]


Pennsylvania gubernatorial election, 1978[4][5]
Party Candidate Running mate Votes Percentage
Republican Dick Thornburgh Bill Scranton III 1,996,042 52.54%
Democratic Pete Flaherty Bob Casey 1,737,888 46.44%
Socialist Workers Mark Zola Naomi Berman 20,062 0.54%
Consumer Lee Frissell Betty Burkett 17,593 0.47%
Write-ins Write-in 384 0.01%
Totals 3,741,969 100.00%
Voter turnout (Voting age population) 64.60%


  1. ^ a b Kennedy, John J. (2006). Pennsylvania Elections: Statewide Contests From 1950-2004. University Press of America. ISBN 9780761832799.
  2. ^
  3. ^
  4. ^ The Pennsylvania Manual, p. 728.
  5. ^ The Pennsylvania Manual, p. 727.


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