Guardian First Book Award

Transcription

ANNOUNCER: PRESENTATION OF DIALOGUE ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION, COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE MOORE FAMILY'S LEGACY OF BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO. [MUSIC] MARCIA FRANKLIN, HOST: COMING UP... SHE STUDIED FOR YEARS TO GO INTO MEDICINE. THEN, SHE FELL IN LOVE....WITH WRITING. I TALK WITH AUTHOR YIYUN LI ABOUT HER TRANSFORMATION, AND THE AWARD-WINNING WORK SHE'S PRODUCED SINCE THEN. THAT'S DIALOGUE NEXT...STAY TUNED. [MUSIC] FRANKLIN: HELLO AND WELCOME TO DIALOGUE. I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN. MY GUEST TODAY WAS ON A SINGLE MISSION AS A CHILD AND YOUNG ADULT TO BECOME A SCIENTIST. YIYUN LI GREW UP IN CHINA, AND WAS DEFINED IN LARGE PART BY THE COMMUNIST SYSTEM THERE. HER PARENTS WANTED HER TO STUDY MEDICINE, AND SINCE SHE WAS GOOD AT SCIENCE, SHE DIDN'T STRAY FROM THEIR WISHES. BUT IN 1996, AFTER MOVING TO THE UNITED STATES TO GET HER PH.D. IN IMMUNOLOGY, YIYUN WANDERED A BIT. SHE WAS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA, HOME TO THE FAMED IOWA WRITERS' WORKSHOP. INTRIGUED BY ALL THE AUTHORS AROUND HER, AND NEEDING TO IMPROVE HER ENGLISH, LI TOOK SOME WRITING COURSES. AND THE REST IS NOT JUST HISTORY, BUT ALSO PRESENT TENSE. YIYUN LI IS NOW CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BEST WRITERS IN THE UNITED STATES. HER FIRST COLLECTION OF SHORT STORIES, "A THOUSAND YEARS OF GOOD PRAYERS," WON NUMEROUS AWARDS. SHE'S PUBLISHED ANOTHER BOOK OF SHORT STORIES: "GOLD BOY, EMERALD GIRL," AS WELL AS TWO NOVELS-"THE VAGRANTS," AND "KINDER THAN SOLITUDE." THE "CHINESE CHEKHOV," AS SHE'S BEEN DUBBED, HAS BEEN LAUDED FOR HER SPARE AND INTENSE PROSE. IN 2010, SHE WAS THE RECIPIENT OF A MACARTHUR "GENIUS" GRANT. I SPOKE WITH LI AT THE 2014 SUN VALLEY WRITERS' CONFERENCE. SINCE 1995, THE CONFERENCE HAS BEEN BRINGING TOGETHER WELL-KNOWN AND INSIGHTFUL AUTHORS TO TALK ABOUT THEIR WORKS. FRANKLIN: THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME ON DIALOGUE, AND WELCOME BACK TO IDAHO. I UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT YOUR FIRST TIME HERE. YIYUN LI, AUTHOR: WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME. THIS IS MY THIRD TIME HERE. FRANKLIN: GREAT. WONDERFUL. I'M CURIOUS. FIRST OF ALL, WE'RE IN SUN VALLEY, IDAHO, ONE OF THE HOMES OF ERNEST HEMINGWAY. YOU ARE A RECIPIENT OF A PEN/HEMINGWAY AWARD. WAS HEMINGWAY A FIGURE IN YOUR - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - LITERARY CAREER? LI: YES. ACTUALLY, HEMINGWAY WENT WAY BACK TO WHEN I WAS IN CHINA. AND HEMINGWAY WAS ONE OF THE FEW WRITERS YOU COULD GET ACCESS TO IN CHINESE - I MEAN, IN CHINESE AND IN ENGLISH IN CHINA. SO, I ACTUALLY READ A LOT OF HEMINGWAY WHEN I WAS IN THE ARMY, AND I USED TO HIDE IN THE STORAGE ROOM READING HEMINGWAY. AND SO, OF COURSE, I WAS ELATED WHEN I WON THE HEMINGWAY AWARD. FRANKLIN: WHY DO YOU THINK HEMINGWAY WAS A WRITER THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE IN CHINA WHEN YOU WERE GROWING UP? LI: YOU KNOW, ONE - FOR ONE, HE WAS A CLASSIC, YOU KNOW. HE WAS - HE'S STILL CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BEST IN CHINA. I MEAN, HE IS, I THINK, ONE OF THE BEST WRITERS WE HAVE. AND THE OTHER REASON IS, I THINK, CERTAIN IDEOLOGY; FOR INSTANCE, HE LIVED IN CUBA FOR A LONG WHILE, YOU KNOW. EVERYTHING IN CHINA HAS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, BEHIND THIS IDEOLOGY. FRANKLIN: SO, JACK LONDON - LI: JACK LONDON. FRANKLIN: - IS ANOTHER AUTHOR THAT'S POPULAR THERE FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, HE WAS A COMMUNIST. LI: YES. AND I READ ALMOST EVERY BOOK BY JACK LONDON. FRANKLIN: WHAT DID HEMINGWAY DO FOR YOU AS A WRITER WHEN YOU EVENTUALLY STARTED WRITING? LI: YES. YOU KNOW, HE - I MEAN, FOR ONE THING, HE WAS A GREAT STORYWRITER, AND I ADMIRE HIS SHORT STORIES. AND IF YOU LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, HISTORY WHERE EVEN CONTEMPORARY WRITING IN OUR WORLD, THERE ARE NOT MANY WRITERS WHO DO BOTH NOVELS AND SHORT STORIES WELL, AND HE HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THOSE MASTERS WHO MASTERED BOTH FORMS. SO, I LOOKED UP, YOU KNOW, TO HIM FOR THAT. AND HIS LANGUAGE, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IS - FRANKLIN: VERY SPARE. LI: YES. AND THAT REALLY APPEALED TO ME FOR SEVERAL REASONS, YOU KNOW. ONE, OF COURSE, I AM A SECOND-LANGUAGE WRITER, YOU KNOW. I DON'T DO THESE FLOURISHED THINGS WITH LANGUAGE. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK HIS CERTAINTY AND THE CLARITY AND HIS PROSE, I ADMIRE THAT, AND I TRY TO LEARN FROM HIM. FRANKLIN: TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MARILYNNE ROBINSON, IDAHO-BORN WRITER - LI: SANDPOINT. FRANKLIN: - FROM SANDPOINT - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - AND HER INFLUENCE ON YOU BOTH PERSONALLY AND FROM A LITERARY PERSPECTIVE. LI: YES. SO, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, MARILYNNE WAS MY TEACHER WHEN I WAS IN IOWA. BUT EVEN JUST BEFORE THAT, I HAD THIS TALE, LITTLE TALE, YOU KNOW. MY OTHER MENTOR, JAMES MCPHERSON, HE TOOK A YEAR OFF TO STANFORD. BEFORE HE LEFT, HE SAID, "GO FIND MARILYNNE ROBINSON." AND MARILYNNE WAS TEACHING A COURSE, SO I WENT INTO THIS ROOM, EMPTY ROOM. I SAID, "I'M LOOKING FOR MARILYNNE ROBINSON." AND MARILYNNE SAID, "I AM MARILYNNE ROBINSON. WHAT DO YOU - WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU?" AND I SAID, "I WANT TO STUDY WITH YOU." SO, THAT STARTED. I BECAME, YOU KNOW, A STUDENT EVEN BEFORE I WENT INTO THE WORKSHOP. AND I - MARILYNNE IS, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, A BIGGER-THAN-LIFE CHARACTER, AND SHE - I MEAN, I THINK SHE REPRESENTS EVERYTHING THE BEST ABOUT AMERICA, YOU KNOW, THAT INTELLECTUAL VOICE, THAT VISION ABOUT AMERICA AND THE WORLD. SO, I LEARNED A LOT FROM READING WITH HER. AND SHE - LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, SHE WOULD TEACH FAULKNER FOR A SEMESTER. SHE WOULD READ "MOBY DICK" FOR A WHOLE SEMESTER WITH THE STUDENTS. YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE THE GIFTS YOU WOULD GET FROM MARILYNNE. FRANKLIN: AND SHE ALSO WROTE A BLURB ON YOUR BOOK. LI: SHE DID. FRANKLIN: SO, THAT'S PRETTY COOL, TOO. LI: SHE DID. FRANKLIN: YOUR PERSONAL STORY, IT SEEMS TO ME, IS ALMOST - ACTUALLY IS WORTHY OF A SHORT STORY OR A NOVEL IN MY BOOK. YOU CAME TO THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA IN IOWA CITY TO STUDY IMMUNOLOGY. THAT WAS THE TRACK THAT YOU WERE ON. AND YOU WOUND UP BEING FASCINATED BY A CERTAIN KIND OF HUMAN SPECIES THAT LIVES THERE, AND THAT WOULD BE... LI: THE WRITERS AND ESPECIALLY THE NOVELISTS. FRANKLIN: WRITERS, THEY'RE EVERYWHERE IN IOWA CITY, AREN'T THEY? LI: YES. SOMEONE TOLD ME WHEN I WRITE - SOMEONE SAID EVERYBODY IN TOWN IS WRITING A NOVEL, SO I THOUGHT I WOULD WRITE A NOVEL, TOO, SOMEDAY. FRANKLIN: THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU HAD DONE IN CHINA. ALTHOUGH YOU WERE AN AVID READER, YOU WERE NOT A WRITER AND YOU DIDN'T PLAN TO BECOME A WRITER? LI: NO, I DID NOT PLAN TO BECOME A WRITER. I DID NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT A POSSIBILITY OF WRITING, BUT I LOVED READING WHEN I WAS GROWING UP. FRANKLIN: SO, YOU TOOK SOME COURSES IN IOWA CITY AND... LI: AND I JUST FELL IN LOVE WITH WRITING. YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING HOW YOU CAN FALL IN LOVE WITH SOMETHING. IT CAME NATURALLY TO ME, THE MOMENT I STARTED WRITING, AND, OF COURSE, I STARTED WRITING IN ENGLISH. IT BECAME VERY NATURAL THAT I COULD EXPRESS MY FEELINGS, I COULD TELL A STORY, AND THAT WAS NEW TO ME. FRANKLIN: THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS NECESSARILY IN YOUR PARENTS' MIND AS WHAT THEY WANTED THEIR DAUGHTER TO BE DOING, WAS IT? LI: WELL, THEY RAISED ME AS A SCIENTIST, AND MY FATHER USED TO WORK AS A NUCLEAR PHYSICIST AND MY MOTHER WAS A SCHOOL TEACHER. SO, YOU KNOW, TO THEIR MINDS, YOU KNOW, I WAS THIS REALLY SMART KID, THAT I WAS DESTINED TO BE THE MADAME BO - I MEAN, MADAME CURIE OF CHINA, AND SO I DIDN'T - THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. FRANKLIN: WHAT WAS WRITING - WHAT IS WRITING TO THEM, OR WHAT WAS IT TO THEM? THERE WAS SOME CHAGRIN, I GUESS - LI: RIGHT. FRANKLIN: - THAT YOU HAD CHOSEN TO BECOME A WRITER. LI: YOU KNOW, MY PARENTS WERE - OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THEY WENT THROUGH THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION AND OTHER REVOLUTIONS, AND THEY WERE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT NOT PUTTING DOWN ANY THOUGHTS IN WORDS. AND WE WERE TOLD FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE NEVER TO PUT DOWN YOUR THOUGHTS IN WORDS BECAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO COULD GET HOLD OF THOSE WORDS, AND THERE'S CONSEQUENCE, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE WORDS. SO, I THINK THEY WERE VERY MUCH AGAINST READING LITERATURE AND WRITING ANYTHING. FRANKLIN: DANGEROUS. LI: DANGEROUS. FRANKLIN: IT'S DANGEROUS. LI: YES. YOU KNOW, IT'S FOR SURVIVAL. FRANKLIN: SCIENCE IS SAFER, HUH? LI: YES. THERE'S AN ABSOLUTE CHOOSING SCIENCE. MY FATHER ALWAYS SAYS THAT. FRANKLIN: TELL ME WHAT IT WAS ABOUT WRITING THAT MADE YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH IT, BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY QUIT YOUR IMMUNOLOGY PROGRAM. I MEAN, YOU REALLY CHANGED DIRECTIONS. WHAT DREW YOU IN? WHAT TOOK OVER? LI: YEAH. YOU KNOW, NOW THAT I LOOK BACK, I THINK, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, AS A YOUNG CHILD YOU WERE PUT ON THIS SCIENCE TRACK, AND I NEVER DOUBTED THAT I WAS GOING TO BECOME A SCIENTIST. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WAS QUITE AN EAVESDROPPER WHEN I WAS YOUNG, AND I LIKED WATCHING PEOPLE, AND I HAD A HUGE AMOUNT OF CURIOSITIES ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS, AND THAT - UNFORTUNATELY, I DIDN'T REALLY - THAT CURIOSITY DIDN'T HAPPEN IN SCIENCE. AND WHEN I STUDIED WRITING, I REALIZED THOSE CURIOSITIES. THAT WAS BECAUSE I LIKE HUMAN BEINGS. I LIKE THE WHOLE HUMAN BEING, NOT JUST PART OF THE HUMAN BEING. FRANKLIN: NOW, AS YOU MENTIONED, YOU WRITE IN ENGLISH, AND YOU TOOK TO IT QUITE QUICKLY, WHICH I THINK IS AMAZING. AND YOU DON'T WRITE IN CHINESE. LI: NO. FRANKLIN: AND WHAT IS - WHAT KEEPS YOU FROM WRITING IN CHINESE? OR MAYBE I SHOULD REPHRASE IT. WHY DO YOU ENJOY WRITING SO MUCH IN ENGLISH? LI: RIGHT. YOU KNOW, I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT THE OTHER DAY, WHY ENGLISH IS SUCH A NATURAL LANGUAGE FOR ME. YOU KNOW, I'M NOT THE FIRST OR THE LAST WRITER WHO WRITES IN A SECOND LANGUAGE. YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT HISTORY. BUT I REMEMBER I WAS READING NABOKOV'S MEMOIR, AND HE HAD THIS ONE SENTENCE THAT REALLY STOOD OUT FOR ME. HE SAID, "MY PRIVATE TRAGEDY WAS I HAVE TO GIVE UP MY NATURAL LANGUAGE TO WRITE IN A SECOND LANGUAGE." AND I - WHEN I SAW THAT, I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, GIVING UP MY MOTHER TONGUE IS NEVER A TRAGEDY TO ME. RATHER, IT'S MORE LIKE A REDEMPTION TO ME. I GET NEW - A WHOLE NEW WORLD IN A SECOND LANGUAGE. SO, I THINK NOT WRITING CHINESE PARTLY COMES FROM, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE, PROBABLY FROM SELF-CENSORSHIP GROWING UP. YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS, AND YOU DON'T WANT YOUR PARENTS TO KNOW YOU'RE WRITING ANYTHING. AND THESE ACCUMULATIONS OF SELF-CENSORSHIP, THEY REALLY, YOU KNOW, GET INTO YOUR WAY OF THINKING. FRANKLIN: RIGHT. THE WORDS OR THE LANGUAGE ITSELF IS ASSOCIATED WITH STOPPING THOUGHT. LI: YES. YES. AND I USED TO - YOU KNOW, USED AS AN EXAMPLE, I USED TO KEEP THIS JOURNAL, YOU KNOW, AS EVERY SINGLE - EVERY LITTLE GIRL DID. AND I WOULD WRITE IN MY JOURNAL, AND I KNEW MY MOTHER WOULD READ MY JOURNAL, AND MY JOURNAL WAS JUST NEGATIVE SPACE. SO, IF THERE WAS A BIRD, I WOULD NOT SAY THERE WAS A BIRD. I WOULD DESCRIBE THE PLOT AROUND; TREES, SKIES, JUST LEAVING A BLANK SPACE OF THE BIRD. SO, IF MY MOTHER READ IT, SHE WOULD NOT SEE THE BIRD. I WAS THE ONLY PERSON WHO COULD SEE THE BIRD. BUT THAT'S THE KIND OF WRITING I WOULD DO IN CHINESE, BUT I NEVER DO THAT IN ENGLISH. FRANKLIN: SO, YOU FEEL MORE YOURSELF IN ENGLISH? LI: I DO. YOU KNOW, I DO FEEL MORE OF MYSELF IN ENGLISH. I LIKE, YOU KNOW, THINKING IN ENGLISH. AND, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE, WITH THIS LANGUAGE COMES TO HOLD. I THINK MY GROWN-UP LIFE IS CONDUCTED IN ENGLISH IF YOU LOOK IN THE PAST 20 YEARS. FRANKLIN: I HEARD YOU SAY SOMETHING RECENTLY THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING, WHICH IS THAT CERTAIN WORDS YOU DIDN'T EVEN SAY IN CHINESE. LI: YES. YES. I - YOU KNOW, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE AN EXAMPLE I USE IS, WE NEVER SAY "I LOVE YOU" IN CHINESE. AND, I MEAN, IT IS EMBARRASSING. ALSO, IT IS - THERE IS A LITTLE SHAME AND EMBARRASSMENT, AND YOU JUST NEVER EXPRESS YOUR FEELINGS THAT WAY. AND, WELL, I THINK COMING INTO ENGLISH, IT'S EASIER FOR ME. I HAVE CHILDREN. I SAY "I LOVE YOU" TO THEM. THEY SAY "I LOVE YOU" TO ME ALL THE TIME. AND I STILL FEEL VERY MOVED THEY CAN FEEL SO COMFORTABLE SAYING, THAT YOU KNOW, THIS PHRASE. FRANKLIN: THAT'S REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING. LI: YEAH. FRANKLIN: THAT THINGS HAD STOPPED DOWN SO MUCH. NEVERTHELESS, YOU SET MOST OF YOUR STORIES IN CHINA. AND I'VE HEARD YOU SAY THAT IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER SO MUCH TO YOU, IN A WAY, WHERE THEY'RE SET, BECAUSE A LOT OF YOUR STORIES - AND WE'LL GET TO THIS - ARE ABOUT THE INTERIOR LANDSCAPE VERSUS THE EXTERIOR. BUT YOU DO SET THEM IN CHINA, AND MANY OF THEM HAVE ANTECEDENTS IN HISTORY, YOU KNOW, TIANANMEN SQUARE AND OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPENED SPECIFICALLY IN CHINA. WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO SET SO MUCH OF YOUR WORK IN CHINA IF YOU'RE NOT WRITING IN CHINESE? LI: YOU KNOW, I THINK PART OF IT IS I KNOW CHINA VERY WELL AND I LOVE THE PEOPLE. YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T SAY I LOVE THE GOVERNMENT OR THE SYSTEM, BUT I THINK - A BIG REASON I STILL - I STILL WONDER WHY I WRITE ABOUT CHINA IS I HAVE MANY QUESTIONS ABOUT CHINA THAT ARE NOT ANSWERED YET. FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, QUESTIONS ABOUT EVERY GENERATION, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY EXPERIENCE REVOLUTION, FOR INSTANCE, EVEN, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY EXPERIENCE HUNGER. THESE QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW, ARE WHY I WRITE. SO, UNLESS I FIND ANSWERS TO ALL MY QUESTIONS TO CHINA I'M STILL, YOU KNOW, DOING THAT TO LOOK FOR ANSWERS. FRANKLIN: YOUR BOOKS ARE NOT TRANSLATED, THOUGH, IN CHINESE. THEY'RE NOT AVAILABLE, UNLESS ILLEGALLY, I SUPPOSE, IN CHINA. LI: NO. I MADE A DECISION NOT TO HAVE MY BOOKS TRANSLATED INTO CHINESE. AND I FEEL THAT THE COUNTRY IS NOT READY AND I AM NOT READY EITHER. SO, I CANNOT SAY, YOU KNOW, WHICH PART IS MORE UNREADY. BUT I FEEL THAT I NEED TO KEEP A DISTANCE. AND UNLESS I CAN BE STRONG ENOUGH TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO BE AFFECTED BY THE NOISES, I WOULD KEEP, YOU KNOW, THE DISTANCE NOT TO HAVE THE BOOK TRANSLATED. FRANKLIN: WELL, AND IT COULD BE - IT WOULD BE CENSORED, WOULD IT NOT, IF IT WERE TRANSLATED? LI: ABSOLUTELY, IT WOULD BE CENSORED. AND, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE CENSORSHIP IS, WHERE THE CENSORING MACHINE IS. SO, YOU DON'T WANT TO GO INTO A MUDDY WATER WITHOUT KNOWING TOO MUCH. FRANKLIN: WELL, LET'S TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT SOME OF YOUR STORIES. "THE VAGRANTS," A NOVEL, AGAIN, HAS A BACKDROP OF CHINA, PARTICULARLY A HORRIFYING SITUATION OF AN EXECUTION IN WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER TO BE MASS COMPLICITY IN WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS STORY. AND YOU, YOURSELF, AS A CHILD REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT EXECUTIONS. YOU REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT DENUNCIATIONS WHICH IS ALSO PART OF THIS BOOK. SO, IT IS DRAWN SOMEWHAT FROM REAL LIFE. LI: YES. I THINK, YOU KNOW, MY - ONE OF MY EARLIEST MEMORIES, NOT THE MOST, YOU KNOW, EARLIEST, BUT I WAS FIVE AND I WAS TAKEN WITH MY KINDERGARTEN CLASS OR PRESCHOOL CLASS TO SEE A DENUNCIATION BEFORE THE EXECUTION, AND I - IT MADE A HUGE IMPRESSION ON ME TO SEE THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE GOING TO BE EXECUTED. AND, AGAIN, IT WAS THE QUESTION ABOUT WHO THESE PEOPLE WERE, YOU KNOW, WHY WE WERE ALL GOING THERE. AND THESE QUESTIONS REMAINED WITH ME FOR YEARS AND YEARS. AND I REMEMBER MY MOTHER AND I USED TO WALK AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD LOOKING AT ALL THE EXECUTION ANNOUNCEMENTS, AND MY MOTHER NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE ALREADY EXECUTED. BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THIS GLIMPSE OF LIFE, YOU KNOW, THEY WILL TELL YOU THEIR CRIME, THEIR AGE, NAMES. THEY REMAIN WITH ME, I THINK. FRANKLIN: AND YOUR BOOK THAT WE HAVE HERE, "KINDER THAN SOLITUDE," YOUR MOST RECENT NOVEL ALSO SET IN CHINA, ALSO A LITTLE BIT, LOOSELY BASED ON A REAL SITUATION WHICH IS A CRIME, AN UNSOLVED MURDER - LI: YEAH. FRANKLIN: - POISONING, THAT REALLY LIT UP THE SOCIAL MEDIA WAVES IN CHINA. LI: YEAH. FRANKLIN: A YOUNG LADY POISONED, POTENTIALLY, BY HER ROOMMATE? LI: YES. FRANKLIN: AND THE BOOK IS ABOUT A POISONING. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: AND THREE POTENTIAL POISONERS. LI: POISONERS. YES. YEAH, I TOOK IT FROM THEIR - YOU KNOW, I CAN'T EVEN SAY THE BOOK IS LOOSELY BASED ON IT, BECAUSE IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CASE, ALTHOUGH, THE CASE, ACTUALLY, WAS AN INTRIGUING CASE TO ME, NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT WAS UNRESOLVED, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, BUT I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHY SOMEONE WOULD COMMIT THIS CRIME TO A YOUNG LIFE AND WHAT WAS BEHIND THIS WHOLE DRAMA. AND SO I MADE UP THE STORY MYSELF TO EXPLAIN WHAT COULD MAKE A YOUNG PERSON A MURDERER OR, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL MURDERER. FRANKLIN: BUT IN THE END, REALLY, IT'S - I MEAN, IT IS A MYSTERY. BUT IN THE END, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE STORY IS ALSO ABOUT A DIFFERENT KIND OF POISONING THAT GOES ON IN ONE'S LIFE IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS, ALMOST A PSYCHOLOGICAL POISONING - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - OF THE MIND AND BODY. LI: YES. YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE NOVEL, THE WOMAN WHO WAS POISONED, SHE STAYED IN THAT STAGE FOR 21 YEARS. YOU KNOW, ODDLY, SHE WAS ACTUALLY NOT POISONED FOR THAT 21 YEARS. SHE WAS NOT CHANGING. SHE REMAINED A CHILD. WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT - FRANKLIN: SHE WAS LIKE IN A COMA- SHE WAS A VEGETABLE OR WHATEVER. LI: YEAH. YEAH. A LITTLE BIT BETTER THAN A VEGETABLE, LIKE A TODDLER. SHE REMAINED A TODDLER FOR 23 - 21 YEARS. WELL, YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER THREE CHARACTERS, AS YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, THEIR LIVES - ONE OF THEM - THEY HAD, YOU KNOW, GOOD CAREERS, MARRIAGES, YOU KNOW, THAT FAILED. BUT THE THING WAS, THEIR LIVES WERE POISONED BY THIS CASE AND BY THIS 21 YEARS. AND I ALWAYS THINK, YOU KNOW, BY THE END OF THE NOVEL, I - FOR MYSELF, I FOUND OUT THAT TIME IS THE BIGGEST POISON. FRANKLIN: THE PASSAGE OF TIME. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: YOU KNOW, WHEN I READ "KINDER THAN SOLITUDE," WHEN I READ "THE VAGRANTS' AND YOUR SHORT STORIES, I HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE WERE TIMES WHEN I HAD A SENSE OF CLAUSTROPHOBIA WHERE I JUST - I MEAN, ALMOST A PHYSICAL REACTION, BECAUSE THERE ARE VERY DARK PARTS TO THE STORIES. IS THAT A SENSE THAT YOU WERE CONSCIOUSLY TRYING TO CREATE? HAVE YOU HEARD THAT FROM OTHER PEOPLE BEFORE, YOU KNOW? I MEAN, SOMETIMES I JUST HAD TO PUT THE BOOK DOWN. DOESN'T MEAN I DIDN'T LIKE IT, BUT IT WAS OVERWHELMING AT TIMES. SOME OF THE BLEAKNESS WAS OVERWHELMING. LI: YES. YOU KNOW, I HAVE OFTEN HEARD FROM PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, SAYING, YOU KNOW, THE WRITING IS BLEAK OR THE STORY IS BLEAK, WHICH, YOU KNOW, AT MOMENTS I AGREE. ESPECIALLY IN "THE VAGRANTS," THERE ARE REALLY BLEAK MOMENTS. AND I REMEMBER, ACTUALLY, WHILE WRITING IN ONE SITTING I HAD TO SET - I HAD TO STOP WRITING BECAUSE I WAS OVERWHELMED. AND - BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ONE THING YOU DO AS A WRITER, IS YOU DON'T LET THINGS GO EASILY AND YOU DON'T SUGARCOAT ANYTHING IN LIFE. AND, ALSO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, DESPITE THE BLEAKNESS, I THINK WE, IN LIFE, NOT ONLY THE CHARACTERS, WE PEOPLE IN LIFE, WE LOOK FOR UNDERSTANDING. WE LOOK FOR, YOU KNOW, OTHER PEOPLE. WE LOOK FOR LIKEMINDED PEOPLE. AND I THINK THE WRITER'S JOB IS REALLY TO GO DEEPER INTO THE INTERNAL WORLD OF THE CHARACTERS, AND THAT'S WHEN THE READERS CAN MAKE CONNECTIONS WITH THE CHARACTERS. FRANKLIN: MANY OF YOUR CHARACTERS, THOUGH, DON'T MAKE CONNECTIONS WITH MUCH OF ANYBODY. MANY OF THEM, BY THEIR OWN CHOICE, ARE VERY SOLITARY. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: ALMOST PROUDLY SOLITARY. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: STUBBORNLY SOLITARY. LI: SOLITARY. FRANKLIN: YES. HENCE, THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK, "KINDER THAN SOLITUDE," FOR ONE OF THEM. WHY SO MANY CHARACTERS THAT ARE ALMOST DIVORCED FROM OTHER PEOPLE? LI: YES. YOU KNOW, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I THINK MY CHARACTERS ARE VERY STUBBORN. A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THAT. AND, ALSO, I'M A VERY STUBBORN PERSON. AND I THINK IN ONE SENSE, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A POLITICAL WRITER, AND VERY FEW OF MY CHARACTERS ARE POLITICAL IN THE SENSE OF POLITICAL ACTIVISTS, BUT I DO THINK THEY ARE POLITICAL IN THE WAY THAT THEY WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIFE, WITH DIGNITY, AND EVEN IF THAT MEANS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE A CONNECTION, THEY'RE GOING TO BE SOLITARY BY CHOICE. FRANKLIN: AND NOT BEING PART OF THE COMMUNITARIAN SOCIETY - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - IT IS A STATEMENT TO SAY, "I'M NOT GOING TO BE PART OF THAT." LI: YES. SO, I REALLY RESPECT MY CHARACTERS FOR THAT, BECAUSE I THINK THEY HAVE MADE A DECISION THAT THIS IS THE LIFE THEY WANT. THEY'RE GOING TO STICK WITH THEIR DECISION AND THEY'RE GOING TO ENDURE THE PAINS, BUT THEY ARE ALSO PROUD OF THEMSELVES. FRANKLIN: YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS READING YOUR STORIES, I WAS REMINDED OF THIS VERY POPULAR FACEBOOK PAGE, "HUMANS OF NEW YORK." HAVE YOU SEEN THAT? LI: OH, I HAVE. YOU KNOW, MY SON SHOWED ME THAT. FRANKLIN: YEAH. AND IT'S THIS GENTLEMAN HAS GONE AROUND - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - AND TAKING PHOTOGRAPHS AND WRITTEN LITTLE STORIES ABOUT INDIVIDUALS IN NEW YORK, AND MANY OF THEM SEEM, TO ME, TO LEAD LIVES LIKE YOUR CHARACTERS, KIND OF SOLITARY, A LITTLE BIT SAD. BUT WHEN THEY TELL THEIR STORY IN JUST THIS PARAGRAPH - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - THEY GET HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE RELATING TO THEM SAYING, "I UNDERSTAND," YOU KNOW. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: "I'M THERE WITH YOU," SO... LI: YES. SEE, I THINK THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF, YOU KNOW, THE HUMAN CONNECTION. FRANKLIN: THERE'S A LOT OF LONELY PEOPLE, A LOT OF SOLITARY PEOPLE - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - IN THE WORLD. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: YOU MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE LIKE YOUR CHARACTERS AND THAT YOU'RE STUBBORN, BUT I THINK YOU'RE NOT LIKE YOUR CHARACTERS IN THAT YOU'RE NOT - YOU DON'T SEEM TO BE AS - YOU KNOW, SOME OF THEM ARE MALEVOLENT. YOU'RE A VERY - LI: YES. I HOPE I'M NOT. FRANKLIN: - HAPPY PERSON. LI: I HOPE I'M NOT MALEVOLENT. FRANKLIN: HOW IS IT TO WRITE THESE CHARACTERS THAT ARE SO DIFFERENT FROM YOU PERSONALLY? LI: RIGHT. FRANKLIN: AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY TALK TO YOU SOMETIMES AND YOU HAVE DIALOGUES WITH THEM. LI: THEY DO. YOU KNOW, I OFTEN - FRANKLIN: SOME OF THEM AREN'T VERY NICE PEOPLE. LI: SOME OF THEM - NO, SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY MEAN PEOPLE OR, YOU KNOW, NASTY SOMETIMES. I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW - I THINK IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT I CAN SORT OF LIKE MYSELF AS A WRITER IS THAT I DON'T HAVE A SELF WHEN I WRITE. FRANKLIN: DO THEY COME THROUGH YOU? YOU'RE A CONDUIT? LI: YES. OR - YES. SO, IN A WAY, I THINK I LIKE TO KNOW THEM AS MUCH AS I CAN. I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THEM. I WANT TO FEEL THEIR FEELINGS AS MUCH AS I CAN. WELL, THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT MY FEELINGS, AND THAT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN REALLY WRITE THEM AS THEY ARE, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT MY PERSONAL JUDGMENT TO AFFECT WHO THEY ARE, BECAUSE, AS YOU SAY, SOME OF THEM ARE NOT VERY NICE, BUT THAT'S WHO THEY ARE, AND I DON'T WANT TO JUDGE THEM, I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THEM. SO, IN A WAY, I LET THEM LIVE IN MY HEAD. THEY FIGHT IN MY HEAD. THEY DO NASTY THINGS, AND I WATCH THEM. FRANKLIN: AND THEN YOU MUST BE EXHAUSTED AT THE END AND SAY, "GOOD-BYE." LI: "GOOD-BYE." AS A MATTER OF FACT, AFTER A NOVEL I'M READY TO SAY GOOD-BYE TO MY CHARACTERS. FRANKLIN: NOW, YOUR PARENTS AND FAMILY DON'T REALLY READ YOUR WORK, DO THEY? I MEAN, YOUR DAD CAN READ IT AND HE KNOWS ENGLISH, BUT YOUR MOM HAS NEVER READ YOUR WORK, RIGHT? LI: MY MOM HAS NEVER READ IT. MY DAD READS ENGLISH, AND MY SISTER ALSO READS ENGLISH. MY SISTER LIVES IN AMERICA. FRANKLIN: OKAY. LI: SO, SHE CAN READ. BUT THEY - THAT'S SUCH A - YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S NOT ONLY MY FAMILY, IT'S A VERY CHINESE PHENOMENON, IS THEY NEVER COMMENT ON WHAT I WRITE, AND THEY NEVER SAY THEY READ IT OR NOT, AND I DON'T WANT TO KNOW. FRANKLIN: YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW? LI: I DON'T. AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT'S - I THINK KNOWING - FOR INSTANCE, I KNOW MY - ONCE MY FATHER WAS VISITING AND HE WAS SITTING ON OUR DECK WITH MY BOOK, AND I JUST THOUGHT, WELL, I WISH I DIDN'T SEE THAT. FRANKLIN: BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT THEM TO BE DISTURBED BY SOME OF THE THINGS IN IT, OR BECAUSE IT'S A PRIVATE THING THAT YOU HAVE THAT YOU WANT TO KEEP TO YOURSELF? LI: I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT'S BOTH, BUT, MOSTLY, I THINK THE WRITER WHO WRITES THIS BOOK IS NOT A DAUGHTER, WAS NOT A SISTER THEY HAVE KNOWN, AND I DO THINK THEY WILL BE DISTURBED BY MY VIEW OF THE WORLD, YOU KNOW, MY LIKE DISSECTION OF THE CHARACTERS. THEY PROBABLY WOULD BE A LITTLE WORRIED. FRANKLIN: ARE THEY AWARE THAT YOU - YOU OBVIOUSLY WON THE MACARTHUR GENIUS GRANT. THEY MUST BE AWARE OF THAT AND ITS PRESTIGE. LI: I THINK I PROBABLY MENTIONED TO THEM. I DON'T KNOW MUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, I DID MENTION TO THEM. FRANKLIN: WHAT WAS THAT LIKE TO GET THAT - IS IT A PHONE CALL? LI: IT IS A PHONE CALL, EXCEPT I AM INFAMOUS FOR NOT PICKING UP PHONE CALLS. SO, THEY CALLED - FRANKLIN: OR READING YOUR EMAIL, AS I UNDERSTAND IT. LI: OR READING - I KNOW. I WAS SO VERY BAD. I'M STILL BAD. SO, THEY ACTUALLY CALLED PROBABLY FOR THREE OR FOUR DAYS, BUT I NEVER PICKED UP THE PHONE CALL, SO EVENTUALLY THEY LEFT A MESSAGE SAYING, "THIS IS FROM MACARTHUR FOUNDATION. COULD YOU CALL BACK?" FRANKLIN: AND THESE ARE OUT OF THE BLUE. IT'S NOT LIKE YOU APPLY FOR IT, SO... LI: NO. NO. FRANKLIN: IT'S AMAZING. I MEAN, WHAT DID IT AFFORD YOU, YOU KNOW? TIME TO WRITE? LI: TIME TO WRITE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, I WAS ABLE TO TAKE A YEAR OFF, AND, ALSO, I HAVE BEEN WORKING, TEACHING HALF OF THE TIME. SO, YES, IT'S A LOT OF - YOU KNOW, I THINK ANY RECOGNITION LIKE THIS IS A HUGE RECOGNITION AND ALSO JUST A HUGE SUPPORT FOR A WRITER. FRANKLIN: WHEN I THINK ABOUT YOUR STORY, I THINK ABOUT ALL THE OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE POTENTIALLY TRAPPED IN A SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY CAN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR TRUE TALENTS ARE. I MEAN, IT WAS ALMOST SERENDIPITOUS, IN A WAY, THAT YOU CAME TO IOWA CITY AND THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO HAVE THIS NEW LIFE. LI: YES. FRANKLIN: THERE'S MANY, MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO - LI: YES. FRANKLIN: - DON'T GET THAT OPPORTUNITY. LI: YES. SERENDIPITY, YES, PLAYS AN IMPORTANT PART IN MY LIFE. AND, IN FACT, ACTUALLY, SOMEONE TOLD ME - I THINK SHE MADE THIS COMMENT AS A CRITICISM, BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS NOT A CRITICISM. SHE SAID, "THERE ARE WRITERS WHO WRITE LIKE YOU IN CHINA IN CHINESE, BUT THEY CAN NEVER GET PUBLISHED." AND I THINK THAT'S A TRUE COMMENT. THAT'S EXACTLY THE FACT. FRANKLIN: SO, YIYUN, WHEN PEOPLE READ YOUR WORK, WHAT DO YOU HOPE THAT THEY MIGHT TAKE AWAY FROM IT? OF COURSE, EVERY READER IS AN INDIVIDUAL, BUT WHAT'S YOUR SENSE? LI: I WOULD LOVE - YOU KNOW, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, I RECENTLY PUBLISHED A STORY IN THE NEW YORKER. IT WAS ABOUT AN OLDER CHINESE NANNY, NANNY AND A YOUNG BABY. AND I GOT THIS - I GOT THIS MOST LOVELY, YOU KNOW, MOVING EMAIL FROM A - HE WROTE ME. HE SAID, "I'M A 79-YEAR-OLD JAZZ MUSICIAN IN DETROIT. YOUR STORY HAS BEEN RATTLING IN MY HEAD FOR DAYS AND DAYS NOW." AND THEN HE EXPLAINED WHY HE WAS SO MOVED. AND I THOUGHT, THAT'S WHY I WRITE IS, YOU KNOW, THIS MUSICIAN AND MY CHINESE NANNY. THEY WON'T MEET IN LIFE, BUT THEY WOULD MEET IN LITERATURE. FRANKLIN: SO, YIYUN, WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU? WHAT ARE YOU WORKING ON? LI: I AM - YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, I'M STUBBORN. I WANT TO WRITE BOOKS, NOVELS AND STORIES, SO I'M WORKING ON ANOTHER COLLECTION OF STORIES. I HAVE A COUPLE OF COLLECTIONS. WHILE I WAS WORKING ON "KINDER THAN SOLITUDE," I FINISHED SOME OF THE STORIES, SO I THINK I'M GOING TO FINISH A COLLECTION AND GO ON TO THE NEXT NOVEL. FRANKLIN: WELL, IT'S SO NICE TO HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH YOU. THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME. LI: THANK YOU, MARCIA, FOR HAVING ME. YOU'VE BEEN LISTENING TO AUTHOR YIYUN LI. OUR CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE AT THE SUN VALLEY WRITERS' CONFERENCE. FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT LI OR THE CONFERENCE, OR TO WATCH THE PROGRAM AGAIN, CHECK OUT THE DIALOGUE WEBSITE. JUST GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG AND CLICK ON "DIALOGUE." FOR DIALOGUE, I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN. THANKS FOR TUNING IN. ANNOUNCER: PRESENTATION OF DIALOGUE ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION, COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE MOORE FAMILY'S LEGACY OF BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO. [MUSIC]