Robert C. Bolles

Transcription

JIM: I've invited a friend of mine, Brendan Murphy, who we happened to meet by chance encounter on a boat ride in the Caribbean. And a conversation has now led to a friendship. And he was nice enough to accept an invitation to come speak to you today at Google. So I want to tell you a little bit about Brendan. He's a former professional athlete who's now an artist. So he's going to tell you a little bit about his journey and how that came about. He's currently in over 500 collections worldwide. He started and sold an athletic company called Solfire that some of you may have seen or heard about. And he most recently launched a brand new venture called 143 The Love Exchange. I've always wanted to say that. I finally got a chance to say that. But today, he's going to take you on an artistic journey of discovery and following one's intuition-- both the art of it, and the science of it. So it's going to be an interactive session. And we hope you will participate as much as possible. So without further ado, I want to introduce Brendan Murphy-- today's Google Talk speaker. BRENDAN MURPHY: Thank you, Jim. Happy St Patrick's Day. I brought my own audience just in case nobody claps or laughs. So I suggest you do that whenever you have to give a speech. I met Jim as he said-- he already left. Jim and I-- we met on a little boat ride coming from Richard Branson's island. Jim left that part out. We were at a charity function. He's been a fantastic new friend, and a lot of our discussions have been about potential, reaching potential. And in my field-- I'm a creative person and an artist, and we thought it might be interesting to share some of my process. And hopefully it translates to some of what you guys do. So I wanted to give an overview-- I don't know if you saw the title. But the title of my speech was Patterns, Progression and Ideal Creative Output. And I'm going to touch on all three of those. Before I get into my story and so on, I want to just touch on patterns. Patterns can be detrimental, and can be very effective. We all have patterns in our lives, whether it's relationships, whether it's work. And I think it's important to realize what our patterns are, and it's also important to try and expand and get beyond those patterns. So I'm going to touch on that. I You see a canvas up here. One of my new series of works is called the Chalkboard Series. So I'm going to try, while I give the speech, to do a painting. My version of a chalkboard painting. It's kind of odd because I may have to turn my back on you a little bit, and I've never actually done a painting for an audience. So no promises, but my hope is to somehow include you in the process of creating-- in my process. I don't know if we can do it. We'll try, and it may even be some interaction. And I'll explain this painting and so forth. I have some notes here. I can tell you right now this is not going to be formal, as you can already tell. I really want to just share my experiences and my process and hope, again as I said, I hope it translates, and helps you get to this ideal creative output. I don't know exactly what you guys do here. I can imagine you're all smarter than me. We'll will start there. At the same time, I think the differentiator in all types of occupations or skill sets is that little extra instinct creativity. That's the difference. That's probably why you guys are here, and not working for a competitor. That's probably why Google has succeeded, because everyone in this room or in this building has just another level of differentiation. And that comes from within. And that's what we're after-- ideal creative output. And how do you get to that state? So bear with me if I kind of bounce around a little bit. Before I get into, again, my story, ideal creative output is in sports. As I played professional basketball-- if what we call the zone-- it's this place where you get to. And you don't know how you get there, and you don't know how to get back to it. But when you're there, it's awesome. And in the creative world, when I knock out a great painting-- there comes to a point in the painting where it can go either way. I can lose the training or it'd be the best painting I've ever done. And right in that spot-- right in that sweet spot. It's comparable on some level to an orgasm. And as we all know, you can never have enough of those. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to get to on a daily basis. So I'd like to try and tell you kind of how it is that-- there's certain things we can do to get us to that state, I think. And the sports where everyone-- I know a ton of scientists. We have one of them here in the front row. And they spend every day trying to get athletes-- figuring out a way. How do we get these athletes into this zone? Well, I'm just applying that to the creative process. All right. The easiest part of my speech is talk about me. I was a professional athlete. I played basketball. I was a little too short to make the NBA, but I did well. I played in Europe. I grew up in Rhode Island. I'm half Irish and half Italian. I played in Hawaii, and from there, I played professional basketball in Germany. It didn't last that long. I probably played six years. My claim to fame is I brought Dirk Nowitzki to the United States. I was the guy who discovered Dirk. I moved to New York. I worked on Wall Street. I was a trader. I had no idea what I was doing. I made a lot of money and I lost it just as quick. And in that process, I was painting as a hobby. And I realized that I wasn't like anybody in Wall Street and it wasn't my thing. But I love painting, and I love creating. And in the process of going broke, I painted a lot more. And it kept me somewhat sane, kept me out of trouble, and I did a show. And I sold a bunch of paintings. And I think most of my friends were feeling bad for me, but I didn't care. I said, well, I'll keep painting until I figure out what to do next, and that was 14 years ago. I still haven't figured out what to do next. I'm still painting. In the process-- that creative journey-- I somehow ended up in the clothing business. My designs were being used for athletic clothing brand, which took me four years, which I just sold a couple months ago. So that was an interesting journey. The art and the creativity really drives my bus and I bet you a lot of people in this room could say the same thing. And now I'm here. I'm here at Google. And it's been an amazing journey. It continues. And again, I kind of want to get into what it's like to have to create something every day and kind of trust your instincts. So this is where it's going to get weird, but we'll give it a shot. OK the first thing I want to talk about is the creative process. To me, the creative process is very similar in whatever medium you choose. The first step in the creative process is idea conception. I'm going to give this a shot. Let's see. Bear with me. Let's call it the first step. It's going to be very abstract. By the time we're done, this thing will be filled. Hopefully, if it works, it'll all kind of makes sense. OK, you gotta have an idea. You gotta have a conception-- a concept. You've got to then be able to execute the concept. One thing about the creative processes it requires a tremendous amount of honesty. And as soon as you come up with a concept and an idea, you will quickly find out what you're capable of doing or what you're not capable of doing. There's no way really around that. So then you have to really figure out what your skill set is and improve your skill set. Stay with me here. One of my skill sets is not necessarily giving a speech at Google. I find that the creative process, as I said, it exposes your weaknesses. And it requires you to kind of take a step back, pull the curtain back, and figure out where you're not good at. OK? So it's important at that point that you really dive into practice and effort. And at the same time, you've got to really learn how to use your materials. AUDIENCE: I've got a question. BRENDAN MURPHY: Give me a question. Go ahead. AUDIENCE: What is it that you have on here now for this talk? What are your thoughts behind all this? BRENDAN MURPHY: OK. You'll see some charts and some figures, here. These are my patterns within this painting. I kind of rely on certain things in each painting. It's kind of a trick. It gives me something to lean on. I don't know where the painting's going. I don't know what exactly we're going to write. I have an idea, but I can rely on this structure. It's something that I've put together. I've done five paintings, sorry 10 in the series. And I've pretty much started with the same graphs in each one. So this goes back to learning my skill set. I know I can rely on all six of these here. Jim gave me this formula as an interest. This was Sergey and Larry's original formula for Google when they were at Stanford. So I thought I'd throw that in there. What I thought I would do is in an effort to ideal creative output, I'd start there. And I'd talk about what are the different elements of ideal creative output, and then work from there. I think, one of the things that's important is instinct. I think what I'm going to do for now is get away from the cards. I'm not doing well with it. So I'm just going to talk. Go ahead. AUDIENCE: When you're working, you have good days and bad days. BRENDAN MURPHY: I have very low expectations, and so I'm often surprised. Which has worked for me. And it's interesting because I had this conversation with my best pal. And I grew up in a working class, blue-collar environment. And the idea of a painter was somebody who painted homes. And my parents were professors, so not in my house but my environment was very blue collar. And the bar is very low. The bar of expectations-- basically you were expected to get a job and not die broke and not be homeless. And what I've realized with this whole process of painting and becoming an artist-- I've totally thrown the bar out. I'm making a living making paintings. So the idea of having any sort of limit or expectations-- I'm basically trying, every day when I sit down to do a painting, I'm throwing out any expectations. I'm throwing out any parameters. And I think that's a big-- you really have to be fearless. Why don't we just add that in? And I put a number in front of it because I think it's important. AUDIENCE: Sounds like prism as well. BRENDAN MURPHY: Yeah, that's coming. Look, I think everyone in this room has a certain skill set that you've learned in school. You guys are pretty comfortable. You can fall back on a certain amount of stuff. There's probably someone that you work next to that's at that next level-- something that makes them different. And these two elements are a big part of that. Somewhere along the line, they had to trust their instinct for no good reason. And that instinct, for an artist, is all that you have. It's the only thing that makes you different-- is that instinct. And I'm continually amazed when I finish a good painting and I'm also amazed at how bad my paintings can be. But it's that process of just trusting and going with it that's very important. I mean, I'd like to know a little bit more about what you guys do, and I'm sorry go ahead. AUDIENCE: [INAUDIBLE] BRENDAN MURPHY: Yeah, there's a certain-- I produce a lot of work. I work on a daily basis, whether it's painting or-- I'm creating. I think there's a certain point where you have to step away from the work. And one of the points I wanted to talk about today was the tension and resolution. This idea of tension and stress is not necessarily a bad thing, it's required. And we're told too much stress can kill you and too much tension-- it's required. So I think when you mention a bad painting or something that doesn't represent my work well, that's part of the tension. And then I have to step back and say, well what did I do wrong? What could I do better? And I have to improve my skill set. And I have to practice. Then you get into 10,000 hours, and Malcolm Gladwell, which is a very true statement. So I would say my success rate at this point is probably 60%. 6 out of 10 are decent paintings, and four really fail. And two of the 10 are really exceptional. And I'm trying to improve that. I think when I started it was lower. The success rate was much lower. You can't really beat yourself up too much about it, which I think is important. Anyways, let's talk about tension and resolution. I'm going to jump around at this point. We talk a lot about sports-- stress and recovery, the concept of tension a resolution. And my pal brought up a good point that within the painting, if I push the painting to a certain spot, I get to a spot of tension. I don't know what to do. And somehow I find an answer and resolution. And then I mess it up again, and I'm in this spot where I don't know what to do. And I resolve it again. And every time I go through this process, I land a little bit higher. I'm going to add resolution. This is a big part of the process. A lot of people get stuck in the tension. A lot of people get stuck at stress. You want to learn how to play a song, or you can't play a chord. You don't learn how to play it you never play the song. You can't execute your idea. Again, before-- I would like to know a little bit more about what you guys do. I'd like to-- I'm thinking-- maybe your process is similar. I don't know. Do you mind? What part of the business are you in? AUDIENCE: I work on Google Fiber. I'm a software engineer on the backend side. So anything related to-- BRENDAN MURPHY: And you write code? And is there a part of that process where you get stuck, and if so, do you-- are you alone? Do you have a team? AUDIENCE: So sometimes I get stuck and in some cases I just keep getting back to the problem, hitting it from different angles, trying to find that way of solving. BRENDAN MURPHY: Right. So you keep hitting this, step back, recover, hit the tension again. And at each time you go through that process you land a little higher until you solve it. And then what? Then there's a new problem. And this is a daily or weekly type-- depends on the project? AUDIENCE: Right. BRENDAN MURPHY: OK. So that's my painting process in a much different environment. It's a little bit more solitary. As my wife can tell you, I'm very comfortable in the unknown. I thrive in the unknown which I think bids well for an artist. Or, in trying to achieve ideal creative output, trying to get to that spot, if you're not comfortable with the unknown you've got to get ready. Because there's-- exactly what you said. There's a spot where you don't know exactly where it's going. You have an idea, you have a concept, you have your skill set, and then you begin. And you're going to run into some problems, but getting through those problems is then-- all of a sudden you've broken through and you get to this next level. And you'll never go back. So I'm very comfortable with that process. I'm very comfortable in the unknown. And I think it's important if you're not that type of person, I think you have to start to accept that that's OK. It's OK to not know where it's going. It's OK to not have control. And I think that's an inhibitor. That's a real block, especially in sports. We do a lot with tennis-- I play tennis. And we'll be joined by one of the best players in the world, later today. And he's a guy who really has-- AUDIENCE: Who's that? BRENDAN MURPHY: Novak Djokavic is on his way here, today. And I don't know if you watched the match yesterday, but here's a guy who-- and I know because my clothing company-- we sponsored a guy who is 30 in the world. And he can hit a tennis ball as well as anyone has ever hit a tennis ball, as can Novak. And we watched them practice only a couple weeks ago. But there was a clear difference. It wasn't in how they hit the ball. It was a difference in instinct, and it was different in-- Novak had just a feel. He trusted himself more than his opponent. And you see it yesterday. It is that next level that I find-- first of all, he's very comfortable in that area where ooh, this could go bad. He thrives in that. And I think that's a really big deal. And I think there's a reason in my attempt to-- I have so much to share with you guys and my attempt to get some points across. This is a big deal. This was a big deal. Eric Fishchl was a mentor of mine. He's one of the most famous painters in the world. And again, he said, instinct is all you have. That spot where you get stuck, you've got to trust what you feel is the right direction. You got to go with it. And if you fail, then do it again. And just keep doing that. Because if you stick by, let's say, the book, there's nothing different about you than the guy sitting next to you. And I think that's a real spot where people get stuck in terms of being different and differentiation. People get stuck. They say, I'll just fall back and I'm not going to go the extra mile. And I find that my best paintings, and anything I've done well, it's come from like some crazy idea that I had internally. And then I pursued it, failed. Pursued it, failed. And somehow it comes together. You have to understand, from where I come from and my friends have joined, here's my wife, my dog's even here. This was a really-- I mean, I've given a bunch of speeches, and I've never had the problems I've had today. But I just was so excited-- more about being in this environment, feeling like I have contemporaries around me who business understand the element of risk. They understand the element of tension, resolution, stress, recovery. And I think I got a little bit too hopped up about it. But it's very similar to the creative process. It's a very solitary pursuit, as well, as I'm sure a lot of engineers would understand. There's no way around putting in 10,000 hours. There's no way around it. There's no way around working by yourself for a long time and working things out. There's just no way around it. And a lot of kids or younger people don't really get that. You can have talent. You don't put the time in-- it's not going to work. And again, if you don't go through that process of tension, resolution, stress, recovery, you're just not going to get there. I do want to talk about discomfort and the idea of being comfortable. That's a death blow for creativity. That's a death blow for success. Once you're comfortable, you're done. Once you fall back on certain patterns, you're cooked. So I think you need to explore ways to take yourself out of that comfort zone. That's a big deal. Is there a way to do that in software engineering? That's interesting. You're presenting it as an exercise. But it has to become a condition. It's not an exercise. It's a condition. And I bet you Sergey and Larry, whoever runs-- I'll bet you that's a condition every day for them. It's not an exercise-- I'm not passing judgement because we come from that space where most of us grew up or educated under certain parameters where you went through exercises. And it's funny because it should be exactly how you think every day. And what's amazing is the quicker you start thinking that way-- I'll give you an example. I've used the formulas in a lot of my paintings. Maybe you've seen them. And I used it. I started using it as almost a fallback. When I didn't know what to put there I'd write a formula. I'd do a beautiful painting of a woman and I wouldn't know what to put in the space and I'd write a formula. And to anyone who'd not seen my paintings it's pretty cool. There's kind of a graffiti element to it, but it was a real fallback for me. And I knew it. So one day, early this spring, last year, I said, that's it. I'm never doing another formula again. I'm going to do one painting. I did a huge painting and it's only formulas and I'm never doing formulas again. I'm done. It's the only way I can get beyond it. Sure enough, I do it. I put it in the show. And I've got a surgeon, a mathematician, and another hedge-fund guy and they're battling over owning the painting. AUDIENCE: In Brooklyn. BRENDAN MURPHY: In Brooklyn. And I say, oh geez. So since then I've done 20 paintings with only formulas, but what was fascinating about it was the surgeon who ended up bidding-- [INAUDIBLE] bought it, what it did was-- it was the first time I was doing a painting without an image-- without a figure. It made me do a painting with only formulas. And inadvertently, it got me out of these patterns to where I've had to make a painting with no paint. Just chalk and words. And it was an interesting process. Again, what I did when I said that's it, I'm-- I've been trying to do that more on just a daily basis. That was an exercise. I said that's it, I'm going to try it. That's it, see what-- so now ever since then, I mean, it's been a process of my own, but it can't be an exercise. It really has to become-- and it sounds weird, but why not? Why not do it? Why not make that part of your daily thought process? AUDIENCE: You're expressing, as you're writing these formulas out-- is it a feeling? It is an idea? Is it-- are you falling back on any math that you love? BRENDAN MURPHY: Did you say math? AUDIENCE: Yeah. BRENDAN MURPHY: No. [LAUGHTER] I think it's the opposite, actually. I think it was my-- it was kind of my-- no, it wasn't hatred, it was my fascination with-- I've always wanted to be a mathematician. I was probably the worst-- I'm not probably. My high school teachers would tell you that I was not a mathematician. But I love figuring things out. And it gives me a way. And what I wanted to do-- and it's been hard. But generally, when I do one of these types of paintings, I've got some music playing. I'm trying to work some things out in my head. I've never done it in an open forum with some sort of structure. And what I'm probably going to do-- just because I want to finish this-- you're going to see-- I'm just going to go. I'm just going to do it. And I think there is a certain process for me. It's kept me some what sane, on some level. It's given me some balance, the formulas. This idea-- it's somewhat poetic. There's a way of working some things out in my mind in an abstract way. And funny thing is, the guys that have really dug the latest series have all been mathematicians, surgeons, and they've put me on to some really interesting-- the Fibonacci theory. I've always been a fan of the golden ratio. I'm a big believer in patterns. I think not only patterns in your life, but patterns that have existed for years-- thousands of years and everything. Those patterns exist. And to deny them or not really get to know them is a big issue. And one of the elements of my speech today we're supposed to go through-- the importance of having an understanding of history of who's done what before you. That's been a big part of my process. And any artist's process-- any creative person. Who's done what before you? How did they do it? Because that's the only way you're going to get your voice. From knowing what has been done, that's the only way you're going to get your own individual voice. And that goes back to knowing what patterns and who did-- great thing about Picasso was he was the best at three or four different mediums. But within his Cubism there were patterns that existed that he worked off of and then he just kind of sprinkled it. And then he became the best guy in Cubism. So it's really vital that you have an understanding of what's been done before you. And I think what's interesting here is a lot of stuff that's going on here has never been done. But I imagine writing code there's a certain-- is there not a certain history and patterns to writing certain code? I mean, you have to start somewhere, right? And it is interesting. This is a new-- there's a whole new business here. Yeah. No, that's where it was really cool. I connected with somebody-- I've always enjoyed connecting with my collectors. And it happened to be one of the top surgeons in New York. He's a fascinating guy-- operated on her knee. It turned out to be this whole-- we all got to know each other. And that was a fascinating process, but we definitely connected. Here's somebody who, by the way operated on my wife, who believed that the pyramids were built by time travelers. But you want to talk about an exercise versus thinking and this is-- and he's one of the top surgeons and he truly believes that. And I'm not discounting-- because he gave me real good reason why that happened. But this is the type of guy-- and that's what he saw in the painting. And I actually-- in that mathematical-- I had touched on the golden ratio and this going back mathematical patterns, and so on. That's what he saw in it-- he saw that in there and I said, yeah that's what I put in there, Fibonacci and so on. He just dies for the stuff. But it's interesting. You have this great mind and he's telling me that the pyramids were built by time travelers because there's no way they could move the rocks to build the pyramids. Only people from the future-- and he gave this whole mathematical equation how that can happen. Again, I didn't really pass judgment but it was, whoa, OK. And then I said well, maybe I'll explore my own limitations intellectually. Does that answer your question, in a way? It was fascinating. AUDIENCE: What type of music do you listen to? BRENDAN MURPHY: I'm an audiophile. You name it, I listen to it. AUDIENCE: Why don't you listen to books? BRENDAN MURPHY: Oh, is that what audiophile means? I thought that an audiophile means I listen-- AUDIENCE: Someone who likes music in all different types. BRENDAN MURPHY: Yeah. Aha! I won that one. I never thought I'd win one at Google. I got it. No, I listen to everything. And it's a big part of my process. You name it. Depends on the mood. Anything from folk to rock to reggae-- whatever. All day long. AUDIENCE: What's the stuff you don't listen to? BRENDAN MURPHY: Heavy, heavy metal I don't love. It doesn't really generate anything. Why, do you listen to music when you work? AUDIENCE: Yeah, sometimes. I like music. I think music [INAUDIBLE]. BRENDAN MURPHY: Music's beautiful. We have a musician here, one of the best around. It's just a wonderful-- it's just another medium but it's a wonderful medium. There are things. It's kind of what I want it to-- and what we have been talking about. You got to get out of your comfort zone. That's a big deal. You got to push your limitations. You got to go beyond what you think is right, and what feels good. As far as getting in the mental state or the zone, I think you've got to have a certain amount of presence. We talked about the word being present. And I think that's a big issue. I don't know how it is here, but I've had my dog for a couple years and he likes to hunt. We go on walks two or three times a day. It's changed my whole life, strangely. I don't use the phone-- I may use the phone, initially-- get rid of all my calls, but at some point during the walk I'm very present. There's no more TV, computer, phone. And it's really made a big difference. It's been my recovery time-- my resolution time. My time to then get ready to work through the tension again. And I think it's very hard, now. Because you're just surrounded and you're always in touch with somebody and something. And I don't know that it's right or wrong, because it's just how it is. But, boy, since he's forced me to step away from it-- some people use meditation, some people do yoga, some people-- but he's really forced me. And man, it's made a huge difference in the last year in every way. And she can tell you. We would have-- we have our issues but when I come back from walking the dog, we don't have issues anymore. And if I have issues with a painting or anything else, that recovery is a big deal. And you may not realize-- I don't know. I imagine you're here 12 to 14 hours a day, right? Are you? I mean, do work here a lot? Do you have time to recover? Do you have time to take a break, mentally? There's certain warm ups and certain things you can do. I think to me, right now, I think the biggest thing for all of us in our-- and we all seem to be the same generation. I think there's a lot of clutter out there, and a lot of distraction. And I think that's a big-- the word being present. Being present, being right there, right in the painting, right in the problem, I think that's a big issue. And I think versus taking that huge leap where I can do anything and risk whatever. I think the more manageable step is, how do I get present? How can I get present more? How can I be right there? How can I write a better song? How can I work through that tension in that moment? How can I treat my family better? How can I be-- I think that's a bigger issue. And I think it would produce bigger results versus-- that's maybe the next stage. And there's a certain element, also, which we haven't hit on. This has to be fun. It has to be-- you have to have some passion. If this is work, and not effort-- I put a lot of effort into what I do and it's not necessary work. But if what you're doing is work and-- that's not good. You've got to change that ratio. Why don't I start putting stuff on the board? There's a good word. Are you allowed to have patience here at Google? Does anyone have patience? How much time do they give you to work through things? Is there an element of-- or are you on the clock? AUDIENCE: It's a balance. Those things don't always happen and you can't always force innovation. But you can light a fire. If you really want something, you may have pushed through 20 different ways of doing it and hope that one-- or in that process you spark the true-- BRENDAN MURPHY: Yeah. Deadlines is-- I don't know. I mean, I put deadlines on myself, but I think it's hard. I think you gotta be real careful with that. You got to be real careful with deadlines and ideal creative output. Yeah. I would say for me, personally, I have a real master in certain materials, at least from the painting and creative-- I know what I-- I'm good with color. I'm good with certain-- hard to tell here, but I'm very good with color. I'm very good with the materials. And I've mastered that. And I can tell you that I know how to get to a certain spot in a painting, as a professional, very easily. And then there'll be a spot in that painting where I've got to trust my instincts. And it can go wrong. It can go real wrong, but the more I can get to a certain place just based on my skill set and-- I will say this. In reference to your question, if I'm about to embark on a painting that I'm not used to doing, I'll practice on a smaller, more cost-effective, manageable kind of medium to get me there, whether it's a sketch-- I'm not a great sketch guy. I can't draw great. So I might practice a certain thing before-- because I know once I get in that painting, I could ruin it. So I want to be prepared. And I want to identify the elements-- for instance, I just got a new collector-- he bought Madonna's house-- young guy, finance guy, bought Madonna's house-- $20 million. He doesn't have one piece of art on the wall. So I go in, I'm trying to help him and advise him, as well. He liked my work. I mean, it's like an artists dream-- just these walls after walls and he doesn't know much about art. That, for me, is great. That's my wheel house. But at the same time it's a showcase for my work. It gives me a chance to show some-- in a real, highly visible arena. And I had to find a painting that would work. I found three pieces that will work for him. One of which, I've done-- I did a painting that's 25 feet wide-- a flower painting. Full color. Always use color. In this guy's case, I'm going to do a big painting of just tone on tone. It'd be a flower painting with no color. It's kind of a scary thing. How do you paint flowers with only grays and blacks? So I've practiced on a smaller one, and it worked. So I'm just going to now apply-- now I just have to paint a lot bigger, but I practiced on the smaller one. I know what works visually, aesthetically. But that's an example where I just did on the smaller one first instead of-- maybe I should just risk it. But I think there's a-- you got to improve your skill set. Very rarely. Sometimes. AUDIENCE: Is it a process of give up, and then just take another direction? BRENDAN MURPHY: Sometimes you lose it and you have to start over. I think a concept I want to hit on, since we kind of a more open forum, something that's played into-- I don't know where I heard it or who said it, but life is liquid. It's not a solid. And-- what's that? AUDIENCE: It's kind of like Bruce Lee. BRENDAN MURPHY: Move like water. Yeah. But I mean the actual-- yeah, that was his whole philosophy. But the whole concept life is liquid and when you really think about it-- a plus b just does not-- it very rarely equals c. And as long as we keep trying to put stuff in the box-- and I think that applies to that creative process-- you have to kind of get to a space we you're moving like the stream. You're moving liquid, not-- it's just not-- because that's going to allow you to kind of move left, move right, and not get stuck anywhere. I think that's a big concept that-- I think life experience is applicable. When they say life experience builds character, I'm low on character. I've had enough of that. But I think that some level of execution that's-- application that's required. I don't know how relevant life experience is in the coding world. It definitely is? I mean, because I think Jim's whole point today-- and I find fascinating-- was to kind of explore what can make you guys different than your contemporaries? And what makes a top engineer a top engineer? And is there something that I do that can-- from the creative, just purely creative-- that can be applied? I think that's the whole-- what we're trying to get at. And I think it's very fascinating. We met with the director of sports science at Red Bull. They have one of the top sports science-- believe it or not, at Red Bull. And he said something fascinating to us. He said, I've witnessed athletes perform at incredible levels. I've seen them do it. I've seen them do things that they don't even-- and they don't know how to get back to that. And everyone's trying to make 1%, 2% gains, and this guy, he believes in 100% gains. And maybe we should start looking at-- because he's witnessed guys do things that are just incredible, but then they can't get back to it. Which is an interesting approach, where maybe 1% incremental gains-- maybe we're looking at things wrong. Maybe you really do-- instead of an exercise, you shoot for the moon. What's the downside? What's the downside? You don't fall, you land. You land back to where you already have your base. And I don't know. Do they fire you, here, if you're way wrong? So you don't fall. You don't fall. You land. It's different. Fall means you-- right? And landing-- you can start again. You can start again. AUDIENCE: One question-- would be a great painting versus your own instinct-- BRENDAN MURPHY: I don't think about anybody else, yeah. AUDIENCE: You think about what you think is cool. This is what I think. You're not thinking about what somebody else-- BRENDAN MURPHY: No. AUDIENCE: Do you think people struggle with that? BRENDAN MURPHY: Yes, tremendously. The difference between ideal creative output and just being decent, that's it. Alberto Bertini, my friend from Australia, big developer. Built some of the biggest buildings in Australia, sold his company for $300 million, went off the reservation. He's now covered in tattoos, rings. Bought his own island in Fiji. We had dinner with them last week. The girls stepped away-- and the guy's completely out of his mind on some level, super successful. And I said, what's the one thing that you can tell? What's the difference? What's been the difference maker? He's just an incredible guy. And the word he used was fearlessness. Fearless. Because the minute you start thinking-- whatever the people-- and this is a guy who has done it. And still does it. And I thought that was very interesting. That was the one word he gave me, was just this fearlessness. And he said he's meeting with the founder of Cirque du Soleil, today. I put them together. Same kind of guy. Just fearless, and it's bizarre. Because we don't come from that. It's not how we were raised. We were raised to be cautious and watch out and it's going to hold you back from getting to that next spot. It just feels really uncomfortable but it's where you need to be. [APPLAUSE]