List of Ecuadorian women writers

Transcription

>> OKAY, GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY, AND WELCOME TO THIS LAST SESSION OF THE RACE, ETHNICITY, AND IDENTITY CONFERENCE. TONIGHT, WE HAVE KATE SWANSON FROM SAN DIEGO STATE SPEAKING AS THE DISTINGUISHED SPEAKER, THE DISTINGUISHED LECTURER, FOR THE INTERNATIONAL GEOGRAPHICAL HONOR SOCIETY'S VISITING GEOGRAPHICAL SCIENTISTS PROGRAM. SO, SHE IS PARTLY SPONSORED BY GAMMA THETA UPSILON. AND AS OUR TOKEN OF APPRECIATION, GIVEN THAT SHE HAS A RICH HISTORY OF FIELDWORK, WE HAVE OUR (indistinct) UPSILON FIELD CAP. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. (laughing) >> WELL, YOU'RE QUITE WELCOME. UM, KATE HAS A RICH HISTORY OF CONDUCTING FIELDWORK, WHICH IS IN MANY WAYS THE ESSENCE OF GEOGRAPHY, AND AT SAN DIEGO STATE, THERE REALLY IS A LONG LEGACY OF FIELDWORK, AS THERE IS WITH THE GEOGRAPHERS WHO HAVE PRESENTED AT THIS CONFERENCE. LEON YACHER PRESENTED MUCH ABOUT HIS WORK IN CENTRAL ASIA, AND THERE FEW GEOGRAPHERS THAT HAVE TRUMPED AROUND THE GLOBE, THAT ARE LIVING TODAY, AS MUCH AS HE HAS. AND MARIE PRICE, TOO, CONDUCTED QUITE A BIT OF FIELDWORK IN LATIN AMERICA. AND THERE AT SAN DIEGO STATE, YOU HAVE THE LEGACY OF LARRY FORD, WHO, UH... WALKED IN PROBABLY EVERY CITY-- EVERY MAJOR CITY-- ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, WHICH IS SOMETHING I DON'T BELIEVE ANYONE EVER HAS DONE. SO, IT IS THIS HISTORY OF FIELD WORK, THIS ESSENCE OF GEOGRAPHY, THAT REALLY FACILITATES YOUR CREDIBILITY IN PRESENTING AT THIS CONFERENCE AND BRINGING, TO US, YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON CHILDREN IN ECUADOR'S ANDES. SO, MAY WE HAVE A GREETING FOR PROFESSOR SWANSON, PLEASE? (applause) AND I'LL ASK YOU TO BEGIN. THANK YOU SO MUCH. >> OKAY, THANK YOU. DID YOU WANT YOUR GLASSES? >> MAYBE SO. >> THERE YOU GO. ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE, FOR COMING TONIGHT! THAT IS BLINDING-- THAT'S RIGHT. UM, AND FOR BEING HERE-- IT'S GREAT. I'M REALLY HAPPY TO SPEAK WITH YOU. I'M GENUINELY VERY HONORED TO BE HERE AS WELL, SO THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE. AS YOU CAN SEE, WHAT I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT TODAY IS LOOKING AT ISSUES OF GENDER, RACE, ETHNICITY, AND CHILDHOOD, THROUGH A CASE STUDY OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO WORK ON THE STREETS OF ECUADOR'S LARGEST CITIES. A LOT OF WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR TODAY PULLS FROM A BOOK THAT I PUBLISHED IN 2010 WHICH IS TITLED, "BEGGING AS A PATH TO PROGRESS-- "INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND THE STRUGGLE FOR ECUADOR'S URBAN SPACES," WHICH IS A VERY LONG TITLE. I NOTE THEY ARE SELLING IT OUT FRONT, SO-- (chuckling) IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, IT'S THERE. REGARDLESS-- OKAY, SO BASICALLY, A LOT OF WHAT I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT IS PULLING FROM THAT BOOK. I'M ALSO GOING TO UPDATE THIS WORK A LITTLE BIT, AS WELL, BECAUSE SINCE I'VE PUBLISHED IT IN 2010, THINGS HAVE STARTED CHANGING A BIT. SO, A LOT OF-- A GOOD NUMBER OF THE WOMEN AND YOUNG PEOPLE THAT I WORKED WITH HAVE STARTED MIGRATING TO BROOKLYN, NEW YORK. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T REALLY EXPECT, AND IT'S REALLY INTERESTING FOR A WHOLE NUMBER OF REASONS. SO, I'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT LATER ON, AS WELL. BASICALLY, I THINK WHILE I'M ABOUT TO DISCUSS A SPECIFIC CASE STUDY IN ECUADOR, I THINK THIS CASE STUDY SPEAKS TO A NUMBER OF BROADER ISSUES. ONE OF THEM IS THAT IT SPEAKS TO SORT OF, I GUESS, WIDER DEBATES WITHIN GEOGRAPHY, PARTICULARLY IN TERMS OF MODERNIZATION AND GLOBALIZATION. I THINK IT ALSO SPEAKS TO A NUMBER OF GLOBAL TRENDS THAT WE'RE SEEING AROUND THE WORLD. ONE OF THEM IS THE SPREAD OF PUNITIVE NEO-LIBERAL POLICIES. OKAY, SO BY THAT I MEAN... LOOKING AT ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES THAT ORIGINALLY, THEY-- THE ZERO-TOLERANCE CAME FROM NEW YORK CITY. AND SINCE THEN-- THESE ARE POLICIES THAT ARE TRYING TO GET RID OF HOMELESS PEOPLE, SQUEEGEE KIDS, BEGGARS-- GET THEM OFF THE STREETS. AND SINCE THE 1990s, THESE POLICIES HAVE SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, BUT ESPECIALLY THROUGH LATIN AMERICA. AND ECUADOR IS NO EXCEPTION, TOO. SO, IT SORT OF SPEAKS TO THAT TREND AROUND THE WORLD. YOU KNOW, CRACKDOWNS ON THE URBAN INFORMAL SECTOR-- PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING ON THE STREETS-- AND ALSO THE SPREAD OF RISING STATE SURVEILLANCE. SO, THESE ARE A FEW OF THE THINGS. I ALSO THINK MY RESEARCH HIGHLIGHTS SOME OF THE CREATIVE STRATEGIES EMPLOYED BY THE POOR, AND HOW THESE STRATEGIES AND RESPONSES TO THESE STRATEGIES ARE GENDERED AND RACIALIZED AND ALSO AGED, AND BY "AGED," I'M TALKING ABOUT CHILDHOOD. AND SO, YOU KNOW, HOW CHILDREN RESPOND TO THESE THINGS DIFFERENTLY. AND I THINK IT ALSO RESONATES WITH THE EXPERIENCES OF A LOT OF MARGINALIZED PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, MANY OF WHOM ARE TURNING TO RURAL-TO-URBAN MIGRATION AND, INCREASINGLY, TRANSNATIONAL MIGRATION, AS WELL, AS A WAY TO GET AHEAD. AND SO, I MEAN, BROADLY-- SO, WHILE THIS IS A FAIRLY SPECIFIC CASE STUDY, I THINK IT FITS WITHIN THESE BROADER TRENDS. SO, THAT'S SORT OF HOW I'D SAY I SITUATE MY RESEARCH. OKAY, SO TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF WHERE I'M GOING TO GO TODAY, I'M GOING TO BEGIN BY TALKING ABOUT THE CASE STUDY, LOOKING AT MIGRANT INDIGENOUS BEGGARS, BUT THERE ARE ALSO STREET VENDORS. AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS-- BEGGING AND STREET-VENDING OFTEN OVERLAP. UM, AND I'LL TRY TO, YOU KNOW, GIVE YOU A SENSE OF THEIR LIFE CIRCUMSTANCES AND SOME OF THE FACTORS THAT ARE DRIVING THEM INTO THE STREETS. I'M THEN GOING TO TALK ABOUT... THE GENDERED AND RACIALIZED ANTI-BEGGING RHETORICS. AND SO, WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS LOOK AT SOME OF THE DISCRIMINATORY RHETORICS AND POLICIES AND PRACTICES THAT ARE PUSHING INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN FROM THE STREETS. AND WHICH KIND OF FEEDS INTO THE NEXT ONE, WHICH IS LOOKING AT HOW THESE TAKE SHAPE ON THE STREETS OF ESPECIALLY QUITO AND GUAYAQUIL, WHICH ARE THE TWO LARGEST CITIES IN ECUADOR. AND THEN, I'M GOING TO TRY TO LOOK AT THE ISSUE FROM THE PERSPECTIVES OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN THEMSELVES. AND WHAT I ARGUE IS THAT, GIVEN VERY LIMITED OPTIONS WITHIN ECUADOR'S SOCIAL AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES-- SO, WITHIN ECUADOR-- USUALLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE-- THERE'S QUITE HIGH LEVELS OF RACISM. AND SO, USUALLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS HIERARCHY. SO, WITHIN THESE HIERARCHIES, THERE'S VERY LIMITED OPTIONS FOR THEM. AND SO, WHAT I ARGUE IS THAT, UM... YOU KNOW, WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY, PEOPLE HAVE DISCOVERED BEGGING AS A VIABLE WAY TO GET AHEAD OR, RATHER, AS I'M ARGUING, YOU KNOW, IT'S A PATH TO PROGRESS. BEGGING HAS BECOME A PATH TO PROGRESS, AND I MEAN "PROGRESS" IN THE SENSE OF, YOU KNOW, HOW WE DEFINE PROGRESS WITHIN OUR CAPITALIST WORLD. UM, AND THEN, FINALLY, I'LL JUST CONCLUDE AND TRY TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE KEY FINDINGS OF MY WORK, AND JUST ADD A FEW FINAL THOUGHTS. OKAY, BUT BEFORE I START, I WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT REPRESENTATION... BECAUSE OFTEN, WHEN WE SEE IMAGES OF CHILDREN FROM THE GLOBAL SOUTH, AND BY "GLOBAL SOUTH," I MEAN SORT OF DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, SO-CALLED "THIRD WORLD." GLOBAL SOUTH IS ANOTHER TERM FOR DEFINING, YOU KNOW, POORER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. SO, YOU KNOW, OFTEN WHEN WE SEE IMAGES OF CHILDREN FROM THE GLOBAL SOUTH, WE SEE A LOT OF IMAGES LIKE THIS ONE. SO, THEY'RE PICTURES OF VERY SAD CHILDREN AND THEY'RE OFTEN ACCOMPANIED BY MESSAGES ASKING US TO DONATE MONEY, SO THAT WE CAN SAVE THESE CHILDREN. BUT I THINK THESE TYPES OF IMAGES CAN OFTEN BE MISLEADING, AND THEY GIVE US A VERY SKEWED PERCEPTION OF CHILDREN'S LIVES IN POORER PARTS OF THE WORLD. AND I THINK THIS PHOTO'S A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW THAT CAN HAPPEN. SO, IN THIS PHOTO-- I MEAN, MOST PEOPLE WOULD LOOK AT IT AND THINK, "THIS CHILD IS CRYING BECAUSE OF HIS TERRIBLE LIFE AS A BEGGAR." BUT HE'S ACTUALLY CRYING BECAUSE I HAD JUST TAKEN A PICTURE OF HIS SISTER AND HER FRIEND, AND HIS BIG SISTER REFUSED TO LET HIM BE IN THAT PHOTO. AND SO, HE IS CRYING BECAUSE HE WANTED TO BE A PART OF THAT PHOTO, TOO. AND SO, I WAS TAKING THIS PHOTO AS A WAY TO CHEER HIM UP. AND I WAS DOING IT WITH A DIGITAL CAMERA, AND EACH TIME, I'D SHOW HIM THE PHOTO, AND SO, BY THE THIRD ONE, YOU KNOW, THIS WAS THE RESULT. (audience laughing) AND SO, I THINK WHEN-- I MEAN, IN-- WHEN I PRESENT THIS MATERIAL, I RELY ON A LOT OF PHOTOS, BECAUSE I THINK THEY'RE VERY POWERFUL IN CONVEYING CERTAIN TYPES OF INFORMATION. BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT PHOTOS-- IMAGES THAT WE SEE, THEY MAY BE TRUE IN ONE INSTANCE BUT NOT IN ANOTHER. AND PEOPLE OFTEN COMMENT ABOUT MY PHOTOS IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, KIDS ARE OFTEN SMILING. AND THIS IS OFTEN IN STARK CONTRAST TO IMAGES THAT DO SEE OF CHILDREN FROM THE GLOBAL SOUTH. BUT I'VE CHOSEN TO PRESENT A LOT OF THESE KIDS AS SMILING BECAUSE I THINK THIS HOW THEY'D RATHER BE PORTRAYED. SO-- BUT IN DOING SO, I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT THESE KIDS-- THEIR LIVES ARE WONDERFUL AND THEY LOVE WORKING AS BEGGARS, BECAUSE THAT'S NOT THE CASE. I MEAN, QUITE THE CONTRARY, THEIR LIVES ARE VERY DIFFICULT. BUT I JUST THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO SORT OF CONTEXTUALIZE THE IMAGES WE USE. AND SO, THROUGHOUT THIS PRESENTATION, I'LL TRY TO PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT FOR ALL OF THESE IMAGES. AND I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW, AS WELL, IS THAT THEY'RE ALL OF KIDS THAT I KNOW AND THE PEOPLE I KNOW, THAT I DEVELOPED RELATIONSHIPS WITH, AS WELL. OKAY, SO ECUADOR. HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TO ECUADOR? OKAY, ONE AT THE VERY BACK. (chuckling) ALL RIGHT, ECUADOR'S A REALLY FASCINATING COUNTRY. FOR THOSE THAT DON'T KNOW, IT'S IN SOUTH AMERICA. IT'S LOCATED BETWEEN COLOMBIA AND PERU. IT'S A FAIRLY SMALL ANDEAN COUNTRY. AND IT'S INTERESTING. IT'S-- IN RECENT YEARS, IT'S HAD A LOT OF POLITICAL INSTABILITY. SO, BETWEEN 1997 AND 2007, THERE WERE EIGHT PRESIDENTS WHO HAVE HELD OFFICE, THREE OF WHOM WERE OVERTHROWN. IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, THINGS HAVE BECOME A LITTLE BIT MORE STABLE. PRESIDENT RAFAEL CORREA HAS BEEN IN OFFICE, AND HE HAS... DONE A FEW THINGS. HE'S INCREASED SOCIAL SPENDING, OVERALL POVERTY RATES HAVE DECREASED A LITTLE BIT... BUT THERE'S ALSO BEEN SOME MAJOR CRITICISMS OF HIS GOVERNMENT IN TERMS OF MEDIA FREEDOMS AND ABILITY TO PROTEST, AS WELL. I'VE BEEN CONDUCTING RESEARCH IN ECUADOR FOR A DECADE, BASICALLY, AND A LOT OF THE RESEARCH THAT I DID TOOK PLACE IN 2002 AND 2003, WHICH WAS PART OF MY DISSERTATION RESEARCH-- AT THAT TIME, ECUADOR WAS IN A PERIOD OF PRETTY SIGNIFICANT ECONOMIC CRISIS. WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT, IN 1998 AND 1999, YEAH, ECUADOR UNDERWENT A VERY SEVERE ECONOMIC CRISIS, WHICH RESULTED IN VERY HIGH INFLATION, AND AS A RESPONSE TO THIS, THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO DOLLARIZE THE ECONOMY. SO, THAT MEANS THEY ACTUALLY ADOPTED U.S. DOLLARS AS THE MAIN CURRENCY. WHAT THIS DID IS IT MADE ECUADOR ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE COUNTRIES TO LIVE IN, IN LATIN AMERICA. GAPS BETWEEN THE RICH AND POOR REMAIN VERY HIGH WITHIN ECUADOR, AND IT CURRENTLY HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST INCOME DISPARITIES WITHIN SOUTH AMERICA AS WELL. BECAUSE OF THIS, AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, 60 PERCENT OF ECUADORIANS LIVED IN POVERTY... WHICH IS VERY HIGH, BUT THIS FIGURE ROSE TO OVER 90 PERCENT FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES. SO, 90 PERCENT-- NINE OUT OF TEN-- INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WERE LIVING IN POVERTY. SINCE THEN, THE OVERALL POVERTY RATES HAVE DECLINED. I THINK IT'S CURRENTLY AT ABOUT 33 PERCENT NATIONALLY. BUT IT STILL REMAINS DISPROPORTIONATELY HIGH FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES. NOW, INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF ECUADOR HAVE NOT ENDURED THIS SITUATION PASSIVELY. SO, ECUADOR CURRENTLY ALSO HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST-- OR THE MOST ACTIVE INDIGENOUS POLITICAL MOVEMENTS IN LATIN AMERICA. YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ON THE NEWS RECENTLY, THERE WAS A MARCH-- A TWO-WEEK MARCH-- FROM THE AMAZON-- OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE FROM THE AMAZON TO THE CAPITAL TO PROTEST A MINING PROJECT IN THE AMAZON. SO, IT'S GOT A VERY ACTIVE INDIGENOUS POLITICAL MOVEMENT. BUT THERE IS A LOT OF CLASS STRATIFICATION WITHIN THIS MOVEMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT, UM... A LOT OF THE-- IN THE NORTHERN PART OF ECUADOR, IN THE COMMUNITY OF OTAVALO, THERE IS A FAIR-- UH, LARGEST NUMBER OF WEALTHIER INDIGENOUS PEOPLES WHO HAVE EARNED A LOT OF MONEY THROUGH AN INTERNATIONAL TRADE OF HANDICRAFTS, UH, GOING TO EUROPE AND SELLING VARIOUS THINGS. AND SO, THERE'S A GROUP OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THAT TEND TO BE THE POLITICAL LEADERS OF THE MOVEMENT. SO... THERE'S A FAIR BIT OF CHANGE WITHIN THESE WEALTHIER INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES. BUT WITHIN THE REST OF THE INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES IN ECUADOR WHERE THERE'S HIGHER POVERTY RATES, THERE HASN'T REALLY BEEN A LOT OF CHANGE. BECAUSE OF THESE FACTORS, WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THAT ECUADOR'S STREETS ARE REALLY OVERWHELMED BY A LOT OF POOR PEOPLE TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING, SELLING ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ON THE STREETS. AND IT'S NOT JUST INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, ALL ECUADORIANS WHO ARE EXPERIENCING POVERTY. BUT RESEARCH IS FOCUSING ESPECIALLY ON INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. BUT AS THE NUMBERS OF STREET WORKERS SURGE, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT ECUADOR'S LARGEST CITIES ARE TRYING TO CRACK DOWN ON STREET WORKERS, ON BEGGARS, ON STREET KIDS, AND CLEANSE THE STREETS AND GET THEM OFF OF THE STREETS. AND THEY'RE DOING THIS IN ORDER TO REALLY MODERNIZE THE URBAN IMAGE AND TRY TO ATTRACT MORE TOURISTS. SO, THIS RESEARCH IS BASED ON A CASE STUDY OF AN INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY IN THE PROVINCE OF TUNGURAHUA, WHICH IS RIGHT HERE IN CENTRAL ECUADOR. AND THEY'RE FROM A COMMUNITY CALLED CALHUASI, WHICH IS ABOUT FOUR TO SIX HOURS FROM QUITO. SO, THIS IS THE CAPITAL OF QU-- OF ECUADOR IS QUITO. UM, AND THIS IS GUAYAQUIL-- THIS IS ANOTHER CITY I'LL TALK ABOUT AS WELL, WHICH IS ON THE COAST. SO, UM, BASICALLY, I FOCUS ON THIS COMMUNITY BECAUSE AS A RESPONSE TO THE DECLINING AGRICULTURAL RETURNS AND RISING CASH DEMANDS-- PEOPLE NEEDED CASH TO SURVIVE, BASICALLY-- PEOPLE IN THE MID-1990s, WOMEN AND CHILDREN FROM THIS VILLAGE STARTED MIGRATING TO ECUADOR'S LARGEST CITIES TO BEG AND ALSO SELL GUM. UM, WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THIS COMMUNITY FROM OTHER RURAL COMMUNITIES, I'D SAY, IS THAT, A, THEY WERE MOSTLY BEGGING-- I MEAN, THEY WERE MOSTLY MIGRATING TO BEG. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. AND ALSO, IS THAT THEY'RE MOSTLY WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO ARE MIGRATING AS WELL. SO, MEN HAVE BEEN MIGRATING FROM THIS VILLAGE FOR SOME TIME, BUT WOMEN AND CHILDREN'S MIGRATION IS SOMETHING THAT IS NEWER, AND IT'S NOT THAT COMMON IN THE ANDES FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN TO BE INVOLVED IN TEMPORARY MIGRATION. AND MOREOVER, AS A RESPONSE TO A LOT OF THESE INCREASING PUNITIVE NEO-LIBERAL POLICIES-- SO THESE ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES-- UM, COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE INCREASINGLY BECOMING INVOLVED IN TRANSNATIONAL MIGRATION. SO, THEY'RE MIGRATING TO NEW YORK CITY, AS WELL. OKAY, I JUST WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT MY METHODS, TO LET YOU KNOW HOW I DID THIS RESEARCH. AS I SAID, THIS IS BASICALLY, YOU KNOW, TEN YEARS OF RESEARCH, WORKING IN ECUADOR. BUT THE BULK OF IT CAME FROM WORK I DID, UH, FROM MY DISSERTATION. AND AT THAT TIME, I DID 125 KEY INFORMANT INTERVIEWS. I'VE RETURNED TO ECUADOR IN 2006 AND ALSO IN 2011, AND I'VE SINCE MADE A COUPLE OF TRIPS TO NEW YORK CITY, AS WELL, TO VISIT ECUADORIANS THAT ARE IN NEW YORK, AND I'VE TRIED TO KEEP IN CLOSE CONTACT WITH PEOPLE OVER THE YEARS. THIRTY-SEVEN OF THE INTERVIEWS I DID WERE WITH YOUNG, INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO BEG IN THE CITY. ALL OF THE INTERVIEWS WERE CONDUCTED IN SPANISH. I STUDIED QUICHUA. I TOOK-- QUICHUA IS A LANGUAGE THAT SPEAK IN CALHUASI. I TOOK ABOUT 180 HOURS OF QUICHUA LANGUAGE TRAINING, BUT IT WAS BASICALLY ENOUGH THAT I COULD FOLLOW CONVERSATIONS, UH... I KNEW WHEN PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT ME, BUT I WASN'T QUITE FLUENT ENOUGH TO DO MY RESEARCH IN QUICHUA. SO, UM... AND SO, AS I SAID, 37 OF THE INTERVIEWS WITH YOUNG INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN WHO BEG IN THE CITY. BUT THE OTHER 88 WERE WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE ASSOCIATED WITH ISSUES SURROUNDING BEGGING AND STREET WORK. SO, THESE WOULD BE SOCIAL WORKERS, TEACHERS, POLITICIANS, ETCETERA. MY RESEARCH TOOK PLACE IN-- OH, AND I JUST WANT TO MENTION, TOO, THE AGES... THE KIDS I WORKED WITH WERE BETWEEN THE AGES OF SEVEN, UH, AND ACTUALLY THE OLDEST WOMAN I INTERVIEWED WAS 24. SO, IT WAS SORT OF A BROAD SPAN OF AGES THERE. BUT THE AVERAGE AGE WAS 13. MY RESEARCH TOOK PLACE IN BOTH RURAL AND URBAN AREAS. SO, WHILE MOST OF IT FOCUSED IN QUITO-- UH, 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE I LIVED-- I ALSO SPENT EIGHT MONTHS GOING TO THE RURAL VILLAGE TWO TIMES A WEEK, AND THEN, ONCE-- UH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TRUSTED ME ENOUGH, THEY INVITED ME TO LIVE WITH THE FAMILY FOR A PERIOD OF A MONTH. SO, I MOVED IN WITH A FAMILY OF SIX FOR A PERIOD OF A MONTH, WHICH REALLY ALLOWED ME TO GET TO KNOW THE SITUATION ON A MUCH DEEPER LEVEL. AND WHILE I WAS THERE, I ALSO DID A SURVEY WITH 42 KIDS WHO WERE IN GRADES 5 AND 6, CONCERNING THEIR WORK AT HOME AND IN THE CITY, WHICH SORT OF GAVE ME A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE TYPE OF WORK THEY DO. I ALSO WANNA MENTION A LITTLE BIT, ON A METHODOLOGICAL NOTE, UM... WHEN I MOVED TO ECUADOR-- SO, I WAS THERE-- I LIVED THERE FOR A YEAR AND A HALF. AND WHEN I MOVED THERE, I BROUGHT MY DOG FROM CANADA-- I'M CANADIAN-- I BROUGHT MY DOG FROM CANADA TO ECUADOR. AND, UM... I LEARNED THAT, IN DOING SO, IS THAT MY DOG BECOME, I THINK, THE BEST RESEARCH ASSISTANT I COULD EVER ASK FOR. BECAUSE I WAS WORKING WITH KIDS, SHE WAS AN INSTANT ATTRACTION. KIDS ARE VERY INTERESTED IN KIVA AND THEY WANTED TO PLAY WITH HER, AND I FOUND THAT, IN DOING SO, IT GAVE ME A GREAT CHANCE TO JUST HANG OUT WITH KIDS, TALK TO THEM ABOUT THEIR LIVES WHILE THEY PLAYED WITH MY DOG. AND THIS IS IN THE VILLAGE AND ALSO ON THE STREETS AS WELL. THIS IS A PARK WHERE-- IT WAS CLOSE TO WHERE A LOT OF KIDS WORKED IN QUITO. SO, UM, EVENTUALLY, I FOUND WHEN I WAS WALKING THROUGH THE VILLAGE, YOU KNOW, KIDS WOULD SHOUT, "KIVA!" MY DOG'S NAME'S KIVA. YOU KNOW, THEY'D SHOUT, "KIVA!" FROM THE HIGH-UP MOUNTAINS, WAVING AT HER-- AT MY DOG. AND IN THE CITY, GENERALLY, WHEN WE APPROACHED PEOPLE, WE WOULD-- YOU KNOW, I'D HEAR PEOPLE START MURMURING, "KIVA," AS WE GOT CLOSER. SO, I THINK MY DOG BECAME MORE FAMOUS THAN I DID, CERTAINLY. AND IF ANYBODY WANTS TO DO RESEARCH WITH KIDS, I'D HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING A DOG. IT WORKED. UM... OKAY. SO, THIS IS THE COMMUNITY OF CALHUASI. UH, IT'S A HIGH ANDEAN COMMUNITY. IT'S AT 3,400 METERS IN THE ANDES, WHICH IS ABOUT 11,000 FEET. IT'S PRIMARILY QUICHUA-SPEAKING, AS I SAID. QUICHUA IS THE-- BASICALLY, THE LANGUAGE OF THE INCAS-- AN ECUADORIAN VARIANT OF THAT. IT HAS A POPULATION OF ABOUT 1,200 PEOPLE... UM... AND THEY'RE A PART OF A BROADER COMMUNITY CALLED QUISAPINCHA ALTO AND THEY'RE PART OF THE QUISAPINCHA ETHNIC GROUP. UM... BASICALLY, THE COMMUNITY, FOR A LONG TIME, SURVIVED ON SUBSISTENCE AGRICULTURE OF ROOT CROPS. AND IT WAS A LONG, VERY ISOLATED, AND INACCESSIBLE COMMUNITY. AND IN FACT, UP UNTIL THE 1970s, THERE ARE NO OUTSIDERS ALLOWED IN. THE WHOLE AREA OF QUISAPINCHA ALTO IS PERCHED ALONG THESE NARROW-- A SERIES OF NARROW MOUNTAIN RIDGES. AND WHAT THEY WOULD DO IS THEY WOULD-- UH, WATCHMEN WOULD GUARD, SORT OF WATCH THE MOUNTAINS TO SEE IF ANYBODY WAS COMING UP. AND IF THEY SPOTTED ANY INTRUDERS, ANY OUTSIDERS COMING UP, THEY WOULD ROLL BOULDERS DOWN THE MOUNTAIN TO PREVENT THEM FROM COMING IN. AND THIS MAKES SENSE WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF-- IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLONIAL HISTORY OF ECUADOR AND THE SITUATION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE. I MEAN, GENERALLY, OUTSIDERS COMING INTO THE COMMUNITY DIDN'T MEAN GOOD THINGS. SO, IT WAS IN THEIR INTEREST TO KEEP OUTSIDERS AWAY. AND SO, UNTIL THE 1970s, THAT PERSISTED. AND IN FACT, UNTIL THE ROAD WAS BUILT IN 1992, THERE WAS NO WAY TO GET IN AND OUT OF THE COMMUNITY, EXCEPT FOR VIA A VERY LONG AND DIFFICULT FOOT PATH UP THE MOUNTAINS. SO, IT TOOK ABOUT TWO AND A HALF HOURS TO HIKE UP AND ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF TO GET DOWN. SO, IT WAS LARGELY A PRETTY INACCESSIBLE COMMUNITY. UM, AND BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY LARGELY SUBSISTED OUTSIDE OF THE MARKET ECONOMY-- SO THEY WEREN'T THAT INTEGRATED WITH THE BROADER ECONOMY-- I THINK THAT THE IMPACTS OF ECONOMIC GLOBALIZATION HAVE BEEN FAIRLY LIMITED HERE. AND BY THAT, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THEIR DIRE POVERTY IS LARGELY THE RESULT OF A PROLONGED, COLONIAL HISTORY OF RACISM, OF SOCIAL EXCLUSION, RATHER THAN THE MOST RECENT PHASE OF GLOBALIZATION. SO, WHAT'S HAPPENED HERE IS THAT, UM, IN RECENT YEARS, THEY HAVEN'T BECOME POORER, BUT WHAT'S HAPPENED IS THEY BECOME MORE ACUTELY AWARE OF THEIR POVERTY. AND HOPEFULLY, THAT WILL MAKE A BIT MORE SENSE AS WE GO ALONG. BUT I THINK WHAT-- YOU KNOW, WHAT-- BECAUSE A LOT OF COMMUNITIES IN THE POORER SOUTH, WE HEAR ABOUT THE IMPACTS OF STRUCTURAL ADJUSTMENT PROGRAMS AND THE IMPACTS OF GLOBALIZATION THAT ARE PUSHING COMMUNITIES INTO DEEPER POVERTY, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE CASE HERE. IN THE MATERIAL SENSE, PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WEALTHIER. BUT THEY ARE NOW AWARE OF THEIR SITUATION AND THE REST OF THE WORLD, MORE OR LESS. AND SO, I THINK THIS POINTS TO THE DIFFERENTIATED WAYS IN WHICH MODERNIZATION AND GLOBALIZATION TAKE PLACE IN THE PERIPHERY, PARTICULARLY FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLES. IN THIS PHOTO-- OKAY, THIS IS A PHOTO-- THIS IS THE OLDER PART OF THE COMMUNITY, AND THIS IS THREE GENERATIONS OF CALHUASENOS. AND WE WERE ALL ON OUR WAY TO GO HARVEST POTATOES... BACK THERE, IN THIS PHOTO. OKAY, I THINK THE-- BASICALLY, WHAT I'M ARGUING IS THAT THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE COMMUNITY'S FIRST ROAD IN 1992 REALLY WAS A KEY CATALYST FOR A LOT OF THE RECENT CHANGE THAT'S HAPPENED. THE ROAD DID A NUMBER OF THINGS. FOR ONE THING, IT ENABLED BETTER ACCESS TO MEDICAL FACILITIES AND VACCINES, WHICH MEANT THAT MORE PEOPLE WERE LIVING. THEY REDUCED INFANT MORTALITY RATES. AND SO, ONE 60 YEAR OLD FATHER, HE TOLD ME HOW SEVEN OF HIS ELEVEN CHILDREN HAD DIED DURING CHILDHOOD. AND HE WAS ONLY 60. AND THIS IS-- THIS WAS NOT AT ALL UNCOMMON IN THE RECENT PAST. VERY HIGH INFANT MORTALITY RATES. BUT WITH THE ROAD, IT, YOU KNOW, GAVE BETTER ACCESS TO MEDICAL FACILITIES. SO, THAT CHANGED. AND INTERESTINGLY, SOME MOTHERS COMPLAINED THAT TOO MANY OF THEIR CHILDREN WERE NOW LIVING. SO, IMAGINE IF YOU'RE-- YOU KNOW, WITH LIMITED ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL AND SO, WOMEN ARE JUST HAVING MORE AND MORE AND MORE CHILDREN... AND YOU'RE VERY POOR, SO IT WAS DIFFICULT. AND DUE TO LIMITED ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROL AND DECREASED INFANT MORTALITY, WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT THE POPULATION'S INCREASING VERY RAPIDLY. SO, IT'S PUTTING A LOT MORE PRESSURE ON LAND. BUT BECAUSE THERE'S A TRADITION OF LAND INHERITANCE IN THE COMMUNITY, WHICH MEANS THAT PARENTS PASS THEIR LAND ONTO THEIR KIDS, EVERY YEAR, THE LAND'S GETTING DIVIDED UP INTO SMALLER PARCELS. AND SO, YOU CAN SEE HERE, TOO, THESE ARE ALREADY VERY NARROW STRIPS OF LAND, VERY NARROW PLOTS OF AGRICULTURE. AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, THIS IS CALHUASI CHICO, AND OVER HERE, THIS IS CALHUASI GRANDE. BEYOND THAT'S ANOTHER COMMUNITY-- THAT'S PASA. SO, INCREASING-- UH, HIGHER POPULATION AND INCREASING LAND FRAGMENTATION. ALONG WITH THESE CHANGES HAS ALSO BEEN A RISING NEED FOR CASH. SO, THE NEW ROAD FACILITATED ACCESS TO NEW CONSUMER GOODS, PARTICULARLY BULKY ONES WHICH COULD NOW BE TRANSPORTED BY TRUCK, BECAUSE UP UNTIL THAT POINT, THE ONLY WAY YOU COULD CARRY BIG THINGS INTO THE COMMUNITY WAS ON THE BACKS OF DONKEYS OR MULES OR PEOPLE. AND SO, THIS ALSO MEANT THAT HOUSING STYLES STARTED CHANGING. SO, IT USED TO BE ADOBE AND THATCH HOUSES, BUT NOW PEOPLE WERE BUILDING CONCRETE BLOCK HOUSES... 'CAUSE THEY'RE PERCEIVED AS A LITTLE BIT MORE "MODERN." UM... DIETS ALSO BEGAN TO CHANGE AS WELL. SO, PEOPLE STARTED TO EAT FOOD THAT COULDN'T BE PRODUCED IN THE COMMUNITY. SO, INSTEAD OF BARLEY AND ROOT CROPS, PEOPLE STARTED EATING WHITE RICE, FLOUR, WHITE BREAD, PASTA. YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT THINGS THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO BEFORE. THE ROAD ALSO PROVIDED TEACHERS WITH ACCESS TO THE COMMUNITY. SO, IN 1996, A BILINGUAL QUICHUA-SPANISH EDUCATION SYSTEM WAS INSTITUTED IN THE VILLAGE, WHICH MEANT THAT CHILDREN'S EDUCATIONAL COSTS REALLY STARTED GAINING A LOT MORE IMPORTANCE. PEOPLE REALIZED THEY NEEDED TO MAKE MONEY TO PAY FOR THEIR KIDS' SCHOOLING. BUT I THINK, PERHAPS, MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR THIS COMMUNITY IS THAT THE NEW ROAD PROVIDED A WAY OUT. SO, FOR THE FIRST TIME, PEOPLE HAD AN EASIER WAY TO GET OUT OF THE COMMUNITY THAN THEY EVER DID BEFORE. AND WOMEN AND CHILDREN'S MIGRATION BEGAN ALMOST IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE ROAD. BUT WITH LIMITED SKILLS AND VERY FEW EMPLOYMENT OPTIONS, UM... WITHIN, BASICALLY, ECUADOR'S SOCIAL AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES THAT I TALKED ABOUT, THEY TURNED TO BEGGING. AND SO, ALTHOUGH BEGGING BEGAN AS MORE OF A SURVIVAL STRATEGY, IT'S SINCE EVOLVED TO INTERSECT WITH A LOT MORE. AND SO, IT'S INTERSECTING A BIT MORE WITH CONSPICUOUS CONSUMPTION, STATUS, EDUCATIONAL FULFILLMENT, AND THIS DRIVE TO BE INCLUDED IN CONSUMER CULTURE. AND SO, PERHAPS IRONICALLY, IS WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT BEGGING BECAME A WAY TO GET AHEAD. IN THIS PHOTO, AS I MENTIONED-- THESE ARE THE TWO RIDGES FOR CALHUASI. THAT'S CHIMBORAZO, WHICH IS AN EXTINCT VOLCANO IN ECUADOR. IT'S-- THE ELEVATION OF THAT ONE IS 20,500 FEET, OR 6,300 METERS, SO PRETTY HUGE VOLCANO. OKAY, SO WHEN THEY MIGRATE TO THE CITY, THEY GENERALLY MIGRATE AS FAMILY UNITS. SO, PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON THE STREETS AS PART OF A FAMILY UNIT OR A BROADER KINSHIP STRUCTURE. BUT BECAUSE OF THIS, BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING WITH THEIR FAMILIES, THERE'S VERY HIGH LEVELS OF SURVEILLANCE ON THE STREETS AT ALL TIME. YEAH, BASICALLY, THERE'S VERY HIGH LEVELS OF SOCIAL CONTROL. SO, FOR INSTANCE, WHENEVER I FIRST APPROACHED A KID ON THE STREETS, I FOUND THAT WITHIN SECONDS REALLY, ONE OR TWO OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS WOULD COME OVER TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON AND WHO I WAS AND JUST MAKE SURE THE KIDS WERE OKAY. SO, TIGHT LEVELS OF SOCIAL CONTROL AND HIGH LEVELS OF SURVEILLANCE WITHIN WORKING WITH THEIR FAMILIES. AND I ALSO FOUND THAT PEOPLE WERE VERY PROTECTIVE OF THEMSELVES AND ONE ANOTHER, AS WELL. SO, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN I FIRST TALKED TO THEM, THEY WOULD OFTEN LIE ABOUT THEIR NAMES, ABOUT WHERE THEY WERE FROM, THEY WOULD PRETEND THAT THEY DIDN'T SPEAK SPANISH. AND I THINK THIS IS-- AGAIN, THIS MAKES SENSE. IT WAS KIND OF A COPING STRATEGY, MUCH LIKE THEY HAD IN THE VILLAGES WHERE THEY'D ROLL DOWN BOULDERS TO KEEP OUTSIDERS AWAY FROM THEM. IN THE CITIES, THEY WERE PROTECTING THEMSELVES BY, YOU KNOW, JUST KEEPING PEOPLE AWAY FROM THEM AS WELL. AND SO... YEAH, MY RESEARCH TOOK A LONG TIME FOR A REASON, I GUESS. BUT WHEN THEY COME TO THE CITY, GENERALLY, THEY MIGRATE FOR ABOUT A WEEK TO TWO MONTHS AT A TIME. AND WHEN THEY'RE THERE, THEY'RE WORKING SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, TWELVE HOURS A DAY. SO, YOU KNOW, VERY, VERY LONG DAYS, MAKING NOT VERY MUCH MONEY. AND ALSO, I WANT TO POINT OUT, THEY'RE NOT HOMELESS IN THE CITY EITHER. THEY GENERALLY HAVE RENTED ROOMS IN THE CITY, WHICH THEY SHARE BETWEEN TWO TO TEN INDIVIDUALS. EARLIER, A WHILE AGO, THEY TENDED TO SLEEP ON CARDBOARD MATS ON THE FLOOR. ON MY LAST TRIP, SOME OF THE PEOPLE I VISITED, THEY ACTUALLY HAD BEDS NOW. SO, THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES ARE A BIT BETTER. BUT DUE TO PRESSURE FROM LOCAL N.G.O.s, THEY'VE ALSO INCREASINGLY STARTED SELLING GUM. SO, IT WAS, INITIALLY, PEOPLE WERE BEGGING EXCLUSIVELY, BUT NOW, IT'S BEGGING AND SELLING, UH, MORE INTERCHANGEABLY. AND THIS IS BECAUSE THE N.G.O. TRIED TO CONVINCE THEM THAT IF THEY SELL, THEY'LL RETAIN THEIR DIGNITY, WHICH I THINK, YOU KNOW, IT RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT BEGGING AND WORK AND WHERE BEGGING FITS INTO THAT. AND THAT'S SOMETHING I TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT IN MY BOOK, AS WELL. BUT GENERALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THEY TEND TO BEG AND SELL. THEY SORT OF DO BOTH. IT'S AN INTERCHANGEABLE STRATEGIES. AND IT DEPENDS ON WHERE THEY'RE WORKING, WHO THEY ENCOUNTER ON THE STREETS, AND THEIR AGES AS WELL. SO, FOR INSTANCE, ON WEEKENDS, THEY GENERALLY BEG MORE EXCLUSIVELY IN THE BACKPACKERS DISTRICT. UM, THIS IS WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF BACKPACKERS AND TOURISTS AND TRAVELERS. IT'S FUNNY-- IN QUICHUA-- IN SPANISH IT'S REFERRED TO AS "GRINGOLANDIA," SO "THE LAND OF THE GRINGOS," WHEREAS IN QUICHUA, IT'S REFERRED TO AS "GRINGOPAMPA," WHICH IS "THE FIELD OF GRINGOS." ANYWAY... SO, WHAT HAPPENS, THOUGH, IS ON WEEKENDS, THEY'D OFTEN BEG FROM GRINGOS, BUT DURING THE CITY, THEY WOULD-- I'M SORRY, DURING THE WEEK, THEY WOULD SELL TO MESTIZOS, 'CAUSE IT WAS A MORE EFFECTIVE STRATEGY. SO, IT'S SORT OF INTERCHANGEABLE STRATEGIES. UM, MEN OFTEN COME TO THE CITY AS WELL, GENERALLY TO WORK AS SHOE-SHINERS, UH, SOMETIMES SELLING THINGS ON BUSES AS WELL. BUT MEN DON'T BEG BECAUSE OF DOMINANT GENDER IDEOLOGIES. IT'S NOT REALLY ACCEPTABLE FOR AN ABLE-BODIED MAN TO BEG. MEN CAN BEG AS LONG AS THEY'RE ELDERLY OR IF THEY'RE YOUNG OR IF THEY'RE CARRYING A BABY OR A CHILD. BUT MORE OFTEN THAN NOT WHAT HAPPENS IS BECAUSE WOMEN AND KIDS CAN MAKE MORE MONEY THAN MEN ON THE STREETS, MEN STAY BEHIND TO TAKE CARE OF ANY KIDS THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT BEHIND OR TO TAKE CARE OF ANIMALS. IN THIS PHOTO, THIS IS A 29 YEAR OLD WOMAN AND HER SEVEN YEAR OLD SON... AND THIS IS A TEN YEAR OLD GIRL, AND THEY'RE BOTH SELLING IN QUITO. UM, OKAY, SO WHEN THEY'RE IN THE CITY, GENERALLY THEY'RE AIMING FOR TOURIST DOLLARS AND, YOU KNOW, MIDDLE UPPER CLASS DOLLARS. UM, AND AS I MENTIONED, THEY WORK IN THE KEY TOURIST DISTRICTS, SUCH AS GRINGOPAMPA. THEY-- AND THIS PHOTO'S ACTUALLY JUST OUTSIDE OF THAT AREA. THERE'S A McDONALD'S ON THE CORNER, THERE'S A K.F.C. AS WELL, AND THERE'S A NUMBER OF EMBASSIES IN THE AREA. THEY ALSO WORK OUTSIDE OF THE INTERNATIONAL OIL DISTRICT-- WHICH IS ACTUALLY CLOSE TO WHERE I LIVED-- ALONG THE MAIN TROLLEY LINES, AND OUTSIDE THE INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. UM... YEAH, THESE ARE ALL AREAS THAT THE MUNICIPALITY IS TRYING TO MODERNIZE AND CLEANSE AND CLEAN UP, IN ORDER TO ATTRACT MORE TOURISTS AND MORE INVESTMENT TO THE CITY. AND SO, TO DO SO, THEY'RE TRYING TO PUSH INFORMAL STREET-WORKERS OFF THE STREETS. UM... BUT THE MORE TOURISTS THAT... THE CITY MANAGES TO ATTRACT TO THE CITY, THE MORE INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND KIDS ARE PULLED TO THE CITY AS WELL, BECAUSE TOURISTS GIVE A LOT MORE MONEY THAN LOCALS. SO, A LOCAL MIGHT GIVE, SAY, FIVE CENTS, WHEREAS TOURISTS WILL GIVE 50 CENTS TO A DOLLAR. SO, IT MAKES SENSE TO BEG FROM, OR TRY TO SELL TO, TOURISTS, DEFINITELY. UM... SO, IT'S A BIT OF A CONFLICT THERE. AND ON THE STREETS, AS WELL, IN THE CONTEXT OF TOURISTS. I THINK THAT-- IF YOU THINK ABOUT SORT OF ROSY-CHEEKED INDIGENOUS GIRLS AND THEIR SHAWLS AND THEIR ANDEAN HUTS, THEY REPRESENT, UM... SORT OF AN EXOTICIZED EXPERIENCE FOR TOURISTS, BECAUSE, UM-- WELL, AND I GUESS I MEAN THAT IN THE SENSE OF AN IMPERIALIST NOSTALGIA, AND I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE'S READ RENATO ROSALDO, BUT HE TALKS ABOUT SORT OF AN IMPERIALIST NOSTALGIA AS "AN IMAGINED PAST COMPLICIT WITH FUNDAMENTAL DOMINATION AND INEQUALITY." AND SO, A LOT OF THE KIDS FROM THIS COMMUNITY ARE AWARE OF THIS, SO THEY TARGET TOURISTS TO BASICALLY, UM... PERFORM THEIR ETHNICITY AND THEIR POVERTY. SO, WHAT THEY'VE DONE-- THEY SORT OF-- THEY'VE LEARNED HOW TO SELL THEIR GENDERED AND RACIALIZED IDENTITIES... OR YOU COULD ARGUE THAT THEY'VE LEARNED HOW TO CAPITALIZE ON THEIR GENDERED AND RACIALIZED IDENTITIES, AS WELL, AS AN EFFECTIVE STRATEGY. UM... I'LL TRY TO EXPLAIN THIS A LITTLE BIT MORE, IN THE CONTEXT OF SORT OF SPACE, RACE, AND ETHNICITY IN THE ANDES. UM... IN THE ANDES, BASICALLY, UM, THERE'S A... WHITES AND INDIANS ARE GENERALLY CONSTRUCTED IN SORT OF AN OPPOSITION. SO, MODERNITY AND PROGRESS ARE IMAGINED AS "WHITE," WHEREAS BACKWARDNESS AND RURAL DECAY ARE IMAGINED AS "INDIAN." SO, THERE'S VERY SORT OF STRICT RACIAL, SPACIAL DIVIDES AS WELL THAT AFFECT RURAL AND URBAN SPACES. UM... SA-- I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE'S READ-- IT'S MORE GEOGRAPHY, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED-- BUT SARAH RADCLIFFE AND SALLIE WESTWOOD HAVE ALSO WRITTEN ABOUT THIS, TOO, ABOUT HOW SPACE, RACE, AND ETHNICITY ARE VERY MUCH LINKED IN THE ANDES. AND SO, THERE'S THIS IDEA, THEN, SORT OF THAT INDIANS, LIKE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND AFRO-ECUADORIANS, BELONG IN RURAL SPACES... 'CAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SORT OF MORE BACKWARD AND RURAL, WHEREAS WHITES BELONG IN URBAN SPACES. AND WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT "WHITES," I'M TALKING ABOUT WHITE MESTIZOS. UM... BASICALLY, WHITE MESTIZOS ARE THE DOMINANT RACIAL ETHNIC GROUP IN ECUADOR. A MESTIZO IS A MIX BETWEEN SPANISH, INDIGENOUS, AND AFRO ANCESTRY. BUT GENERALLY, A LOT OF MESTIZOS SELF-IDENTIFY AS "WHITE," AND SO, THE TERM USED IS OFTEN "WHITE MESTIZOS." AND SO, BECAUSE OF THIS SORT OF RACIAL-SPACIAL DIVIDE, YOU'LL OFTEN SEE IN THE NEWSPAPER-- THERE WILL BE PICTURES OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN THAT ARE SELLING BUNDLES OF CARROTS THAT ARE "OUT OF CONTROL" OR THAT ARE "INVADING THE STREETS." AND SO, THERE'S THIS IDEA THAT INDIGENOUS PEOPLES ARE FUNDAMENTALLY OUT OF PLACE IN THE CITY, THEY DO NOT BELONG IN THE CITY. THEY SHOULD, INSTEAD, BE UP IN THE COUNTRYSIDE IN THE ANDES... AND OUT OF THE CITY. AND THESE TYPES OF GEOGRAPHICAL IMAGINARIES ARE ALSO ENFORCED BY A LOT OF HYGIENIC RHETORICS THAT TRY TO... I GUESS LEGITIMIZE EFFORTS TO SORT OF CLEANSE THE STREETS AND SANITIZE THE STREETS. UM, SO-- AND URBAN PLANNERS WOULD SPEAK TO ME WITH A BIT OF-- SOMETIMES OF REVULSION ABOUT TOUCHING, YOU KNOW, INDIGENOUS WOMEN'S HANDS BECAUSE THEY'RE SO DIRTY. OR I REMEMBER SPEAKING TO A DOCTOR AS WELL, TALKING ABOUT ALL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AS BEING "FLEA RIDDEN." AND SO, THERE'S THIS VERY MUCH SORT OF THIS HYGIENIC DISCOURSE THAT GOES ALONG WITH THIS, THAT SORT OF TRIES TO... FRAME THEIR EXCLUSION THROUGH HYGIENICS AND TRYING TO PUSH THEM OFF THE STREETS BECAUSE THEY'RE UNCLEAN. "THEY DON'T BELONG-- THEY'RE UNCLEAN. "THEY SHOULDN'T BE IN THE CITY. "THEY'RE A POTENTIAL SOURCE OF CONTAMINATION FOR WHITE MESTIZOS." UM, IN THE CITY, THERE'S ALSO SOME SIMILAR RHETORIC SURROUNDING GENDER, AS WELL. SO, BASICALLY WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT A LOT OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN ARE ACCUSED OF BEING BAD MOTHERS WHO EXPLOIT THEIR INNOCENT CHILDREN. AND KIDS ARE ALSO CONSTRUCTED AS "DELINQUENTS." SO-- AND IF THEY'RE NOT ALREADY DELINQUENTS, IT'S ASSUMED THAT THESE KIDS WILL BE THE CRIMINALS OF THE FUTURE. SO, I HAD A PRIEST TELL ME THAT THESE KIDS MIGHT START-- THEY MIGHT BEGIN BY SELLING CANDY, BUT THEY'LL END BY SELLING COCAINE. SO, THERE'S THIS IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, ONCE THEY'RE ON THE STREETS, THEY'LL BE CORRUPTED. THEY'LL BECOME THE CRIMINALS OF THE FUTURE. UM... AND WOMEN ARE ALSO ACCUSED OF USING THEIR CHILDREN AS PROPS FOR BEGGING, WHICH... IT IGNORES DIFFERENT FORMS OF PARENTING AND CHILDHOOD THAT DEVIATE FROM SORT OF THE MODERN WESTERN NORM. SO, HERE IN THE U.S., WE HAVE THIS IDEA ABOUT HOW CHILDREN AND PARENTS SHOULD BEHAVE. AND IN ECUADOR ANDEAN INDIGENOUS SOCIETIES, THEY HAVE VERY DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTIONS OF CHILDHOOD AND OF PARENTING. AND SO, UM... WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUNG OR UNMARRIED CALHUASENOS GO TO THE CITY, AND THEY DON'T HAVE CHILDREN OF THEIR OWN, THEY MIGHT BRING A CHILD THAT BELONGS TO AN EXTENDED FAMILY MEMBER. SO, LET'S SAY ONE WOMAN HAS JUST HAD A BABY, SHE CAN'T GO TO THE CITY, BUT SHE MIGHT SEND ANOTHER ONE OF HER OLDER CHILDREN TO THE CITY WITH HER SISTER WHO DOESN'T HAVE HER OWN KIDS. WHEN THAT SISTER COMES BACK FROM THE CITY, SHE BRINGS 50 PERCENT OF HER CHILD'S EARNINGS AND BUYS A NEW OUTFIT FOR THE CHILD. SO... FROM A CERTAIN PERSPECTIVE, THAT MIGHT SEEM LIKE RENTING... BUT WITHIN CALHUASI, PEOPLE PERCEIVE IT VERY DIFFERENTLY. SO, THEY PERCEIVE IT AS SORT OF A LENDING OR SENDING-- SORRY-- YEAH, LENDING OR SENDING CHILDREN, WHICH IS KIND OF A PRACTICE THAT IS VERY INTEGRALLY CONNECTED TO NOTIONS OF REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH, OF RECIPROCITY, OF KINSHIP, AND ALSO SKILL-BUILDING. SO, CHILD CIRCULATION-- IT'S REALLY A LONGSTANDING PRACTICE WITHIN ANDEAN SOCIETIES. BASICALLY, A LOT OF PEOPLE SEND CHILDREN... UM... TO LIVE WITH THEIR EXTENDED FAMILY MEMBERS IN A KIND OF APPRENTICESHIP. UM, SO, SENDING CHILDREN TO WORK ON THE STREETS WITH THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS, I THINK, IS REALLY AN EXTENSION OF THIS PRACTICE. AND WHAT I TRY TO SUGGEST IS THAT IT'S KIND OF A MODERN AND RESILIENT TAKE ON AN AGE-OLD TRADITION... WHICH IS ALLOWING THEM TO DRAW UPON KINSHIP TIES AND ECONOMIC AND MATERIAL TIES, AS WELL, IN ORDER TO SURVIVE VERY DEEP LEVELS OF POVERTY. UM, SO IT'S SORT OF A MODERN TAKE ON RESILIENCE, I SUPPOSE. BUT IF THEY'RE BAD MOTHERS, EXPLOITING THEIR INNOCENT CHILDREN, THEN I THINK SAVING THESE KIDS BECOMES A LEGITIMATE GOAL. SO, BY SUGGESTING THAT INDIGENOUS WOMEN ARE EXPLOITING THEIR CHILDREN OR ARE SELLING A FALSE IMAGE OF POVERTY BY RENTING CHILDREN, WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT ATTENTION IS DRAWN AWAY FROM THE INADEQUACIES OF MARKET ECONOMIES THAT FAIL TO REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH TO THE POOR, TO INSTEAD FOCUS ON THE ALLEGED VICES AND CORRUPTIBILITY OF THE POOR THEMSELVES. AND WHAT THIS DOES-- THIS TYPE OF RHETORIC, I THINK, REALLY JUSTIFIES REMOVING INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN FROM THE STREETS. SO, "THEY'RE BAD MOTHERS. "WE NEED TO SAVE THEIR KIDS. "WE GOTTA TAKE THESE KIDS AWAY FROM THEM, AND GET THEM OFF THE STREETS." BUT WHAT IT DOES, AS WELL, IS IT TURNS ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE VERY REAL ISSUES THAT ARE PUSHING THESE KIDS AND WOMEN ONTO THE STREETS TO BEGIN WITH, WHICH IS POVERTY. AND IT JUST PUSHES THEM OFF THE STREETS IN A SORT OF "OUT OF SIGHT, OUT OF MIND" MENTALITY, AND DOES NOTHING TO ACTUALLY HELP THEM. UM... AND I THINK THIS IS VERY PROBLEMATIC. IN THIS PHOTO HERE, AS WELL, THIS IS, UM-- SO, I LIVED NEAR A CORNER WHERE A LOT OF INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND KIDS WORKED. AND SO, THEY'D OFTEN COME OVER TO MY APARTMENT, JUST TO HANG OUT AND HAVE SOME FOOD. WE DID A LOT OF INTERVIEWS IN MY KITCHEN, AS WELL. AND THIS PHOTO, INTERESTINGLY... MOST OF THESE WOMEN ARE TEENAGERS, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE, OVER THERE. SO, FAIRLY YOUNG. BUT ALSO, WHAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THIS PHOTO IS THAT, UH, ONE OF THESE WOMEN IS NOW IN NEW YORK, THE SISTER AND BROTHER OF ANOTHER WOMAN ARE ALSO IN NEW YORK, AND THE COUSINS OF ANOTHER WOMAN ARE NOW IN NEW YORK. SO, THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE FORMALLY ON THE STREETS ARE GOING TO NEW YORK CITY. WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT NOW IS SORT OF HOW EFFORTS TO "SAVE CHILDREN," OR A FEW EFFORTS OF SAVING CHILDREN THAT KIND OF REVEAL HOW THIS RHETORIC THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT INFORMS POLICY AND PRACTICE. SO, THE FIRST ONE-- IT WAS CONDUCTED BY DINAPEN, WHICH IS A NATIONAL POLICE FORCE THAT FOCUSES ON CHILDREN AND FAMILIES. SO, THIS NATIONAL POLICE FORCE AND A COALITION OF SOCIAL ORGANIZATIONS ROUNDED UP AND TEMPORARILY DETAINED ABOUT 50 BEGGING KIDS AND HELD THEM FOR OVER A WEEK. NOW, THIS IS AN EXTREMELY STRESSFUL EXPERIENCE. A LOT OF THE WOMEN WERE STILL BREAST-FEEDING AT THE TIME. UM, A LOT OF THEM-- I MEAN, THEY SPEAK SPANISH, BUT NOT ALWAYS VERY FLUENTLY. AND IN ORDER TO GET THEIR KIDS BACK, THEY HAD TO PROVE THAT THEY WERE THE BIOLOGICAL MOTHERS OF THEIR KIDS. SO, THE PROOF THAT THEY NEEDED WAS EITHER A BIRTH CERTIFICATE-- WELL, THE FIRST THING WAS A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, BUT A LOT OF KIDS AREN'T REGISTERED. THEY DON'T GET BIRTH CERTIFICATES UNTIL THEY HAVE TO ENROLL IN SCHOOL AT THE AGE OF SIX OR SEVEN. SO, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT DOCUMENT. AND FAILING THAT, THEY HAD TO BRING BACK MALE WITNESSES TO PROVE THAT THEY WERE THE BIOLOGICAL MOTHER OF THE CHILD. AND SO, TO GET THAT, THEY HAD TO GO BACK TO THE VILLAGE, TRY TO GET A BIRTH CERTIFICATE, BRING BACK A MALE WITNESS, UM... AND TO PROVE THAT THEY WERE, YEAH, THE LEGITIMATE PARENT. THIS WAS PERCEIVED UPON A... SORRY, THIS WAS PREMISED UPON A PERCEIVED NEED TO ACTUALLY-- TO PROTECT CHILDREN, BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THAT TAKING KIDS AWAY FROM THEIR MOTHERS IN THIS INSTANCE WAS TRAUMATIZING CHILDREN, REALLY, RATHER THAN PROTECTING THEM. ANOTHER ONE... THERE WAS A PROPOSED LAW TO PERMANENTLY SEIZE CHILDREN FOUND BEGGING ON THE STREETS, AND INSTITUTIONALIZE THEM IN SPECIALIZED YOUTH CENTERS... OR YOUTH INSTITUTES. SO, PERMANENTLY REMOVE THESE KIDS FROM THEIR FAMILIES AND PLACE THEM IN THESE SPECIALIZED YOUTH RESIDENCES. AND IF THE CHILDREN FLEE, IT'S STATED THAT THESE KIDS SHOULD BE CAUGHT AND PUNISHED. NOW... TO ME, THIS SOUNDS REALLY EERILY SIMILAR TO THE FORMER ABORIGINAL RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE IN THE U.S. AND CANADA AND AUSTRALIA. FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, THIS WAS A SYSTEM OF FORCE REMOVAL OF INDIGENOUS CHILDREN FROM THEIR FAMILIES TO PUT THEM IN SPECIAL RESIDENCES. IF ANYONE'S SEEN THE FILM "RABBIT-PROOF FENCE," IT'S ABOUT AUSTRALIA AND SORT OF HOW WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS A "STOLEN GENERATION" OF ABORIGINAL YOUTH HAVE BEEN TAKEN FROM FAMILIES. IN ANY CASE, TO ME, THIS SOUNDS VERY MUCH-- THE WAY THIS WAS FRAMED WAS VERY SIMILAR TO THIS TYPE OF SYSTEM. AND I THINK THE FACT THAT THIS COULD EVEN BE SUGGESTED IN THIS DAY AND AGE IS PRETTY WORRYING. THE BILL DIDN'T PASS, BUT WHAT-- YOU KNOW-- AGAIN, THE FACT THAT IT COULD EVEN BE SUGGESTED IS, I THINK, WHAT CONCERNS ME. BUT WHAT IT WAS DOING WAS SUGGESTING, AGAIN, THAT THESE ARE BAD MOTHERS WHO ARE EXPLOITING THEIR CHILDREN. AND MUCH LIKE THE ABORIGINAL RESIDENTIAL SCHOOL SYSTEM, IT WAS SUGGESTING THAT THESE KIDS WOULD BE BETTER OFF IN STATE INSTITUTIONS WHERE THEY COULD BE MOLDED INTO PROPER CITIZENS. UM, SO IT'S NOT WHAT'S BEST FOR INDIGENOUS FAMILIES-- IT'S MORE WHAT'S BEST FOR SOCIETY, AND IT WAS A VERY PATERNALISTIC APPROACH. I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT THERE AREN'T BAD MOTHERS OUT THERE, BUT I DO WANT TO STRESS THAT IN THIS CASE, THESE KIDS ARE ONLY ON THE STREETS FOR REASONS OF POVERTY. IT IS POVERTY THAT IS PUSHING THEM ONTO THE STREETS TO BEGIN WITH. ANOTHER ONE I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS AN ANTI-BEGGING CAMPAIGN, WHICH SUGGESTED THAT IF YOU GIVE MONEY TO A CHILD BEGGAR, YOU ARE DESTROYING THAT CHILD'S LIFE. AND THE IMAGES THAT WENT ALONG WITH THE CAMPAIGN SHOWED THIS PICTURE OF A CHILD BEGGAR SORT OF MORPHING INTO AN ELDERLY BEGGAR. UM... BUT THE FACT IS-- I MEAN, THERE IS NO EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THIS IS THE CASE. AND IN FACT, MY RESEARCH SUGGESTS JUST THE OPPOSITE-- THAT THESE KIDS ARE-- THAT BEGGING IS BASICALLY ENABLING OPPORTUNITIES THAT THESE KIDS HAVE NEVER HAD BEFORE, AND I'LL TALK ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LATER. THESE ANTI-BEGGING CAMPAIGNS ARE ONGOING IN ECUADOR. I ACTUALLY-- I PUBLISHED MY BOOK IN SPANISH, AS WELL, AND I HAVE SENT IT TO A BUNCH OF PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THESE CAMPAIGNS, AND... I DON'T KNOW. WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. BUT THIS IS AN ONGOING DEBATE IN ECUADOR. THIS IS ANOTHER CAMPAIGN THAT WAS GOING ON A FEW YEARS AGO. THESE ARE SIGNS POSTED IN THE-- THESE SIGNS WERE IN THE BACKPACKERS DISTRICT. BUT BASICALLY, WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT "WHEN YOU BUY IN THE STREETS, "YOU PUT YOUR SAFETY IN DANGER. "WHEN YOU GIVE YOUR MONEY TO DELINQUENTS, THEY SEE YOUR MONEY, "YOUR ITEMS OF VALUE, AND YOUR CAR. "FOR THIS REASON, DON'T BUY IN THE STREETS." AND THEY'VE GOT A PICTURE OF, YOU KNOW, A HEAVILY JEWELED WOMAN WHO IS BUYING GUM AND, I GUESS, ILLEGAL DVDS FROM A STREET VENDOR. AND THIS IS SPONSORED BY THE MUNICIPALITY OF QUITO. NOW, WHY THIS SIGN UPSETS ME IS 'CAUSE WHAT IT'S DOING IS THAT IT'S ASSUMING THAT ALL STREET VENDORS ARE DELINQUENTS... AND SORT OF SUGGESTING THAT THE STREETS WILL INEVITABLY CORRUPT THESE PEOPLE AND THAT THEY'RE ALL WAITING TO PREY ON THESE, YOU KNOW, UNSUSPECTING, VULNERABLE CUSTOMERS. AND AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT THERE AREN'T DELINQUENTS ON THE STREETS, BUT I DO WANT TO STRESS AGAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE THAT I WAS WORKING WITH ARE ON THE STREETS FOR REASONS OF POVERTY. AND SO, WHAT IT'S DOING, AGAIN, IS IT'S COMPLETELY BRUSHING ASIDE THESE REASONS, THESE ISSUES, OF POVERTY THAT ARE PUSHING PEOPLE ONTO THE STREETS, AND VERY REAL HUMAN NEED, TO INSTEAD FOCUS ON THE ALLEGED "CORRUPTIBILITY" AND THE VICES OF THE POOR. AND SO, IN MY WORK, I GUESS WHAT I DO IS THAT I'M ARGUING THAT ALL OF THESE ARE MERELY AESTHETIC COVER-UPS TO REMOVE RACIALIZED INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN FROM THE STREETS, IN ORDER TO CREATE SORT OF CLEAN, MODERN, SANITIZED IMAGES OF THE CITY... BUT THEY'RE DOING VERY LITTLE TO ACTUALLY SAVE CHILDREN OR PROTECT CHILDREN FROM REASONS, SUCH AS POVERTY OR UNEMPLOYMENT, THAT ARE PUSHING THEM ONTO THE STREETS TO BEGIN WITH. INSTEAD, THEY'RE JUST, YOU KNOW, REMOVING THEM FROM THE STREETS AND PUSHING THEM BACK TO THE COUNTRYSIDE WHERE THEY'RE DEEMED TO BELONG. ANOTHER ONE I WANNA TALK ABOUT-- THIS IS THE CITY OF GUAYAQUIL, WHERE A LOT OF THE ANTI, INFORMAL ACTIONS ARE ALSO VERY PREVALENT HERE. UM... THERE IS A SORT OF AN ONGOING URBAN RESTRUCTURING PROJECT IN GUAYAQUIL, WHERE THEY'RE VERY MUCH TRYING, AGAIN, TO MODERNIZE THE CITY IMAGE AND ATTRACT MORE TOURISTS TO THE CITY, BUT I THINK GUAYAQUIL PROVIDES A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE OF HOW THESE PUNITIVE NEO-LIBERAL POLICIES THAT I TALKED ABOUT EARLIER-- SO, ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES-- ARE BEING SORT OF BEING EXPORTED FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH. SO, IN 2002, THE CITY OF GUAYAQUIL HIRED CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON. NOW, I DON'T KNOW IF ANYBODY'S HEARD OF HIM. HE WAS THE FORMER POLICE COMMISSIONER OF NEW YORK CITY, THEN HE BECAME THE CHIEF OF POLICE FOR THE L.A.P.D. BUT WILLIAM BRATTON, ALONG WITH MAJOR RUDY GIULIANI OF NEW YORK, ARE BASICALLY THE KEY ARCHITECTS OF ZERO-TOLERANCE. SO, THEY HIRED BRATTON TO COME TO GUAYAQUIL AND CREATE A NEW ANTI-CRIME STRUCTURE. NOW, I SHOULD MENTION AS WELL IS THAT THE ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES HAVE BEEN HEAVILY CRITICIZED. SO, THE IDEA BEHIND THEM IS FROM SOMETHING CALLED "BROKEN WINDOWS THEORY," WHICH SUGGESTS THAT IF YOU POLICE LESSER CRIMES-- SO, LESSER OFFENSES, SUCH AS BEGGING, GRAFFITI, PUBLIC URINATION, LIKE ANYTHING THAT'S SORT OF A LESSER OFFENSE-- IF YOU POLICE THOSE QUITE HEAVILY, OVERALL CRIME WILL REDUCE. NOW, THIS HAS BEEN VERY CRITICIZED FOR NOT HAVING MUCH EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE BEHIND IT, BUT REGARDLESS, IT'S BEING EXPORTED ELSEWHERE. SO, IN ANY CASE, THE RESULTING PROJECT, WHICH HAS BECOME KNOWN AS "PLAN BRATTON," IS VERY HARSH AND PUNITIVE, PARTICULARLY FOR INFORMAL STREET-WORKERS. SO, AS PART OF THE URBAN RESTRUCTURING PROJECT, THERE'S CONSTANT POLICE SURVEILLANCE. THIS IS A COINCIDENCE-- THERE'S A POLICE TRUCK HERE, WHICH WHEN I TOOK THE PHOTO, I DIDN'T-- THAT WASN'T EVEN ON PURPOSE. THERE'S POLICE-OPERATED VIDEO CAMERAS EVERYWHERE. BEGGARS ARE JAILED FOR SEVEN DAYS IF THEY GET CAUGHT BEGGING IN CERTAIN PARTS OF THE CITY. UM... AND YOU KNOW, SO THERE'S-- IT'S A VERY SORT OF PUNITIVE PROJECT. THE OTHER THING IS THAT PRIVATE SECURITY'S ALSO PLAYING AN INCREASING ROLE IN THE CITY. SO, THERE'S A MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE THAT ENCOURAGES PRIVATE BUSINESS OWNERS TO EMPLOY THEIR OWN SECURITY FORCES SO THEY CAN IMPLEMENT WHAT'S KNOWN AS SORT OF... IT'S "PROPER MORAL CONDUCT AND DECOR" IN THE ORDINANCE. AND SO, WHAT THIS IS DOING IS PRIORITIZING THE RIGHTS OF BUSINESS OWNERS OVER PEOPLE ON THE STREETS. AND I THINK THIS IS ALSO WORRYING. ALSO, IN GUAYAQUIL, THEY ALSO RECENTLY BUILT A BEAUTIFUL NEW BOARDWALK. IT'S REALLY NICE. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU COULD BE IN FLORIDA. BUT THIS GUARDED BY, YOU KNOW, HEAVILY ARMED GUARDS WHO ARE DECIDING WHO CAN ENTER THE BOARDWALK AND WHO CANNOT. AND I TALKED TO THE CHIEF OF POLICE ABOUT THIS NEW BOARDWALK, AND-- AND I THINK-- AND WHAT DEMONSTRATES A PRETTY GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT'S REFERRED TO AS "SOCIAL AND SPACIAL DISTANCING." UM, AND THIS WILL BE CLEAR. HE SAID TO ME, "ON SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS, "YOU'RE SURE TO ENCOUNTER A LOT OF PEOPLE "FROM THE POOREST BARRIOS," OR NEIGHBORHOODS, "ON THE BOARDWALK. "AND THIS WILL MAKE YOU SUSPICIOUS OR IT WILL GIVE YOU A BAD IMPRESSION, "WHEN THERE'S ONLY SHORT PEOPLE, UGLY PEOPLE, ETCETERA. "SO, THEY'RE BUILDING A NEW BOARDWALK ON THE SUBURBS, "WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO WITHOUT LOSING THEIR MERIT, WHERE THEY CAN-- "WITHOUT LOSING THEIR DIGNITY, WHERE THEY CAN MINGLE AMONGST THEMSELVES. "IT'S JUST EASIER THAT WAY." OKAY, SO WHEN HE'S HERE-- WHEN HE'S TALKING ABOUT SHORT PEOPLE AND UGLY PEOPLE, HE'S TALKING-- THESE ARE, I THINK, EUPHEMISMS FOR THOSE OF INDIGENOUS DESCENT, THE WORKING CLASS, AND THE NON-WHITE. SO, YOU KNOW, HE'S SAYING THAT ALL THE SHORT PEOPLE AND UGLY PEOPLE, THEY SHOULD GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. THEY SHOULD GO TO A DIFFERENT BOARDWALK AND WE'LL KEEP ALL THE NICE, TALL, WHITE PEOPLE SOMEWHERE ELSE. UM, SO THIS IS WHAT I MEAN BY SORT OF THE SOCIAL AND SPACIAL DISTANCING. THERE'S THIS REAL DESIRE TO KEEP INDIGENOUS PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, FAR FROM THE MAIN TOURIST DISTRICTS OF THE CITY BECAUSE THEY MIGHT DAMAGE THE SORT OF MODERN, WHITENED IMAGE OF THE CITY THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO PROJECT. UM, DURING ANOTHER INTERVIEW, UH, MUNICIPAL EMPLOYEES, THEY SORT OF SPOKE WITH DISDAIN ABOUT INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AGAIN, SAYING THAT THEY WISH THEY WOULD ALL GO BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM, LIKE "BACK TO THE ANDES." UM... SO, I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE TRIED TO DO IS REVEAL SOME OF THE RACIAL INJUSTICES WROUGHT BY THESE NEO-LIBERAL URBAN POLICIES. AND I ARGUE THAT, YOU KNOW, WHILE THESE TYPES OF POLICIES HAVE DIFFUSED TO ECUADOR, THEY'RE BEING IMPLEMENTED IN A MUCH MORE RACIALIZED MANNER. AND CERTAINLY WHILE RACE PLAYS A ROLE IN SORT OF NEO-LIBERAL POLICIES ELSEWHERE, I THINK THAT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN ECUADOR IS THAT IT'S A MUCH MORE TRANSPARENT ENGAGEMENT WITH THE PROCESS OF "WHITENING." SO, IT'S A VERY BLATANT ATTEMPT TO TRY TO "WHITEN" THE CITY STREETS, SO THAT THE CITY LOOKS MORE MODERN. NOW, UM, WHAT I ALSO THINK IS IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT IS HOW THESE POLICIES ARE LEADING TO A LOT OF DISPLACEMENT. SO, BASICALLY, THE RESULT OF THIS IS THAT INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND KIDS ARE BEING DISPLACED FROM THE STREETS OF QUITO AND GUAYAQUIL, AND ARE BEING PUSHED INTO MORE HAZARDOUS CIRCUMSTANCES. SO, A NUMBER-- SINCE ABOUT 2005, A NUMBER OF WOMEN AND YOUNGER KIDS STARTED MIGRATING TO BOGOTA AND CALI IN COLOMBIA, BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT THEY ARE TREATED BETTER ON THE STREETS, PEOPLE ARE NICER, UM, AND THEY JUST MADE MORE MONEY THERE. AND THEN, AS OF ABOUT 2010, A NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN GOING TO NEW YORK CITY. AND I THINK THIS-- THE NEW YORK CITY IS ESPECIALLY WORRYING, BECAUSE TO GET FROM ECUADOR TO NEW YORK-- AND THEY'RE COMING UNDOCUMENTED, USING COYOTES-- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PUTTING THEMSELVES AT TREMENDOUS RISK. I DON'T KNOW IF ANYONE FOLLOWS THE NEWS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN MEXICO, BUT THE DRUG CARTELS ARE PREYING ON MIGRANTS... UH... AND B.B.C. REPORTED RECENTLY THAT 11,000 MIGRANTS-- CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANTS-- WERE ABDUCTED BY THE CARTELS. THEY'RE BEING KIDNAPPED FOR RANSOM. THERE WAS A MASSACRE OF 73 MIGRANTS IN MEXICO, TWO OF WHOM-- TWO YOUNG WOMEN WHO DIED IN THAT MASSACRE-- WERE FROM THIS COMMUNITY, WERE FROM QUISAPINCHA ALTO. THEY'RE 18 AND 21 YEARS OLD. YOU KNOW, AND A LOT OF-- SO, THEY'RE DESTROYING-- GOING TO TRY TO HAVE A BETTER OPPORTUNITIES, AND I THINK A LOT OF THESE POLICIES ARE SORT OF PUSHING WOMEN AND KIDS OFF THE STREETS AND FORCING THEM TO SEEK OUT ALTERNATIVE STRATEGIES TO MAKE A BETTER LIVING. AND I THINK, IN THIS CASE, INTO A MUCH MORE DANGEROUS CIRCUMSTANCE. WHEN THEY GET TO NEW YORK, THEY'RE WORKING-- MEN ARE WORKING IN CONSTRUCTION AND AS DISHWASHERS, AND WOMEN ARE WORKING IN SLAUGHTERHOUSES AND AS CLEANERS. AND I'D SAY THERE'S ABOUT 100 QUISAPINCHA WHO ARE IN NEW YORK NOW, BUT ABOUT 30 THAT ARE FROM CALHUASI. SO, THIS IS FAIRLY RECENT-- THIS IS STARTING-- BUT I THINK IT'S GOING TO INCREASE IN NUMBER. BUT I ALSO THINK-- THIS IS WHAT I'M GOING TO LOOK AT IN THE FUTURE, IS, YOU KNOW, THE IRONY HERE-- HAVE ZERO-TOLERANCE POLICIES IMPORTED FROM NEW YORK CITY PLAYED A ROLE IN PUSHING... INDIGENOUS YOUNG PEOPLE TO NEW YORK CITY? I'M NOT SURE WHAT GIULIANI WOULD THINK OF THAT, IF HE... IF HE LEARNED ABOUT THAT. I'M SURE IT WAS A PRETTY UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE. UM, OKAY. SO, THE NEXT THING THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, AS WELL, IS WHILE THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF MEDIA AND POLICY DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BROADER IMPACTS OF STREET BEGGING, THERE'S BEEN VERY LITTLE ANALYSIS OF THIS ISSUE FROM THE PERSPECTIVES OF WOMEN AND CHILDREN THEMSELVES. AND SO, THERE'S THIS ASSUMPTION THAT THEY'RE DRUNKS OR THAT THEY'RE BAD MOTHERS... OR THAT THESE CHILDREN ARE THE CRIMINALS OF THE FUTURE. BUT I FOUND IS THAT THEIR WORK IS REALLY ENABLING POSSIBILITIES THAT THEY'VE NEVER HAD BEFORE. SO, CHILDREN'S EDUCATION WAS THE MAIN REASON WHY A LOT OF THESE WOMEN AND KIDS WORK. THE MAJORITY USE THEIR EARNINGS FOR NOTEBOOKS, SCHOOL SUPPLIES, UNIFORMS, AND SCHOOL LUNCHES. EDUCATION HAS BECOME VERY IMPORTANT IN THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE THIS IS SEEN AS A WAY TO GET AHEAD, AS A WAY TO GET A BETTER AND MORE PROSPEROUS FUTURE. AND UP UNTIL 2008, THERE WASN'T A SINGLE HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE FROM THE COMMUNITY. AND THE FIRST HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE WAS A GIRL, AND SHE'S BEEN BEGGING ON THE STREET SINCE SHE WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD. AND SO, I THINK THIS IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT. AND HER PEERS AND HER SIBLINGS ARE EQUALLY DETERMINED TO GO TO SCHOOL. I MEAN, GETTING AN EDUCATION IS SO IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW. NOW, THE FUTURE IS GOING TO DECIDE, I THINK, WHETHER GETTING THIS EDUCATION WILL TRULY ENABLE BETTER OPPORTUNITIES... BECAUSE OF THIS MIGRATION TO NEW YORK. SO, UM, FOR INSTANCE, THIS GIRL-- THE FIRST HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATE-- HER HUSBAND RECENTLY TRIED TO MIGRATE HERE, BUT GOT CAUGHT IN ARIZONA AND SENT BACK, BUT I THINK SHE WAS PLANNING ON COMING WITH HIM. SO, A LOT OF THE KEY COMMUNITY LEADERS ARE ACTUALLY LEAVING NOW. THE ONES WITH EDUCATION ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GOING, SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS. BUT THEY ARE ALSO GOING SO THAT THEY CAN PAY FOR THEIR KIDS' EDUCATIONS. BUT I THINK THE KEY THING TO TAKE AWAY HERE IS THAT WHEN WE OFTEN HEAR ABOUT KIDS WORKING ON THE STREETS, WE'RE TOLD THAT IT'S DESTROYING THEIR FUTURES, THAT THESE KIDS ARE GOING TO DROP OUT OF SCHOOL, "DON'T GIVE THEM MONEY, IT'S GOING TO RUIN THEIR LIVES." BUT IN THIS CASE, YOU KNOW, GIVING THESE KIDS MONEY IS WHAT ACTUALLY HELPED THEM TO GO TO SCHOOL, AND MOST OF THE MONEY THAT THEY'RE USING IS BEING-- THEY ARE USING TO PAY FOR THEIR EDUCATION. AND I THINK THIS IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT AND IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT WE HEAR WHEN WE HEAR ABOUT CHILD LABOR AND KIDS ON THE STREETS. YOU KNOW WHAT, IF THEY DIDN'T WORK ON THE STREETS, THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL. UM... AND I JUST WANNA-- THIS PHOTO, AS WELL. THIS IS A MOTHER AND HER THREE KIDS, AND I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY'RE ALWAYS WORKING IN THESE KINSHIP GROUPS, THEY'RE ALWAYS WORKING WITH FAMILY MEMBERS. AND SO, IN THE CORNER OVER THERE, THERE WAS A BUNCH OF OTHER COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, WATCHING OVER PEOPLE. AND THEN, ANOTHER THING THAT I JUST WANT TO MENTION, AS WELL, IS THAT EFFORTS TO REMOVE THEM FROM THE STREET ALSO IGNORE THEIR REALITY THAT FOR A LOT OF KIDS, THIS IS REALLY A SAFER OPTION THAN SOME OF THE OTHER ALTERNATIVES. UM, AND SO, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO HERE IS PROVIDE AN EXAMPLE THAT CHALLENGES SOME OF THE GENDERED UNDERSTANDINGS OF PUBLIC SPACE. OFTEN, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT PUBLIC SPACE FOR GIRLS, IT'S CONCEIVED AS A VERY DANGEROUS SPACE. BUT FOR THESE KIDS, I'M TRYING TO SAY THAT... UM... YOU KNOW, THERE ARE RISKS FOR THEM ON THE STREETS, CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF TRAFFIC ACCIDENTS FOR THE YOUNG ONES, BUT I THINK BECAUSE THEY'RE WORKING AS PART OF THESE TIGHTLY-KNIT KINSHIP GROUPS, THEIR... THEIR LIVES ARE SAFER. THE RISKS ARE LOWER. SO, FOR INSTANCE, WITHIN ECUADOR'S SOCIAL AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES, ONE OF THE OTHER OPTIONS FOR THEM WOULD BE TO WORK AS A DOMESTIC. SO, THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, TO GO BE A MAID-- A LIVE-IN MAID-- IN SOMEONE'S HOME. UM... AND A LOT OF THE GIRLS THAT I WORKED WITH ARE OFFERED JOBS TO BE LIVE-IN MAIDS AT PEOPLES' HOMES ALL THE TIME. UM, BUT WITHIN ECUADOR AND AROUND A LOT OF THE WORLD, DOMESTIC WORKERS ARE SUBJECTED TO VERY HIGH LEVELS OF PHYSICAL AND ALSO SEXUAL AND MENTAL ABUSE. AND THERE WAS AN I.L.O. STUDY RECENTLY THAT SUGGESTED THAT YOUNG INDIGENOUS IN ECUADOR WHO WORK AS DOMESTICS, SOME AS YOUNG AS 12 OR YOUNGER-- THIS IS A 12 YEAR OLD GIRL-- UM, ARE-- THEY WORK UNDER CONDITIONS COMPARABLE TO SLAVERY. SO, BEING A DOMESTIC IS NOT A VERY GOOD JOB. AND THE VIOLENCE ENDURED BY A LOT OF THE YOUNG GIRLS IS AS MUCH RACIAL AS IT IS SEXUAL, SO MUCH THAT IF A PREGNANCY RESULTS, THAT... IT'S CONSIDERED A BENEFIT TO THE GIRL, BECAUSE HER CHILD WILL BE WHITER THAN SHE IS, AND THIS IS CONSIDERED TO BE "IMPROVING THE RACE." SO, I MEAN, BEING A DOMESTIC WORKER IS NOT UNDERSTOOD AS A GOOD OPTION. AND I THINK-- THESE GIRLS, WHEN THEY'RE OFFERED THESE EMPLOYMENT-- THESE JOBS, THEY'RE OFTEN PRETTY OFFENDED, BECAUSE, IN THEIR MINDS, THEY ALREADY HAVE JOBS AS INDEPENDENT ENTREPRENEURS. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SELLING ON THE STREETS AND THEY'RE MAKING MONEY. THEY WOULD MUCH RATHER WORK ON THE STREETS THAN BE DOMESTICS, BECAUSE THEY CAN ALSO WORK WITH THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILY. THEY CAN ALSO STUDY. THEY CAN CONTINUE THEIR EDUCATIONS AND ON THEIR OWN SCHEDULES. THEY HAVE A LOT MORE FREEDOM. THEY CAN WORK MORE ON A PART-TIME BASIS. UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I SAID THIS ALREADY, BUT THEY CAN EARN MORE MONEY, AS WELL. THEY MAKE-- THE JOBS-- WORKING AS A DOMESTIC IS NOT A VERY HIGH-PAYING JOB. BUT WHEN THEY REFUSE THESE OFFERS OF EMPLOYMENT, IT TENDS TO REINFORCE BELIEFS THAT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, "LAZY INDIANS WHO JUST DON'T WANT TO WORK." YOU KNOW, "THEY'D RATHER BEG OR WORK ON THE STREETS." UM, BUT I THINK THE OPPOSITE-- YOU KNOW, WORKING ON THE STREETS IS A SAFER AND BETTER OPTION FOR THEM. ALSO, THEIR WORK ON THE STREETS ALLOW SOME MODEST PARTICIPATION IN CONSUMER CULTURE. SO, MANY HAVE TELEVISIONS NOW AND THEY WATCH LATIN AMERICAN SOAP OPERAS EVERY NIGHT. UH, THEY'RE REGULARLY EXPOSED TO URBAN LIFE. AND BECAUSE OF THEIR CONTACTS IN NEW YORK NOW, THEY'RE INCREASINGLY EXPOSED TO INTERNET LIFE. SO, A NUMBER OF THESE KIDS ARE NOW ON FACEBOOK. AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE VERY AWARE OF THE OUTSIDE WORLD AND THEY SEE EVERYTHING THAT THEY'RE MISSING OUT ON, AND THEY WANT A PART OF THAT LIFE, TOO. THEY-- YOU KNOW, THEY WANT TO HAVE EVERYTHING THAT EVERYBODY IN THIS ROOM HAS. SO, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET THAT. NOW, AS A CAVEAT, I JUST WANT TO SAY-- REMIND EVERYONE, THEY'RE STILL-- THEY'RE EXTREMELY POOR. SO, THESE ARE THE NEW CONCRETE BLOCKS HOUSES THAT THEY'RE BUILDING. AS YOU CAN SEE, I MEAN, THEY'RE NOT GREAT. OFTEN PEOPLE DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR WINDOWS, AND SO THEY JUST-- THEIR-- THEY HAVE PLASTIC COVERINGS OVER THEM AND THE WIND JUST KIND OF RIPS THROUGH THEM. OFTEN THE DOORS ARE PLYWOOD BOXES, OR THEY MIGHT NOT REALLY HAVE DOORS. SO, VERY POOR LIVING CONDITIONS. THIS IS INSIDE. THIS IS THE KITCHEN OF THE FAMILY THAT I LIVED WITH. AND THIS IS PEOPLE-- THEY'RE COOKING WITH FIREWOOD ON THE RIGHT. THEY HAVE A GAS STOVE OVER HERE, BUT IT'S TOO EXPENSIVE TO BUY THE PROPANE TANKS, SO THEY PREFER TO COOK WITH FIREWOOD. THERE'S NO FURNITURE IN THE KITCHEN. THEY SIT ON LOGS AND CONCRETE BAGS. YOU KNOW, IT'S A DIRT FLOOR. SO, YOU KNOW, WHILE THEY'RE GETTING AHEAD IN SOME SENSE, THEIR POVERTY IS STILL VERY REAL... AND THEIR NEED IS ALSO VERY REAL. AND ON MY TRIP IN 2011-- ER, LAST SUMMER, UM... THE HOUSING CONDITIONS HAVEN'T REALLY CHANGED THAT MUCH. DESPITE THE BEGINNING OF REMITTANCES FROM NEW YORK, CONDITIONS HAVEN'T REALLY CHANGED THAT MUCH YET. THESE MIGHT CONTINUE TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE. WE'LL SEE. UM... OKAY, SO TO CONCLUDE, THEN. I'M JUST GOING TO SORT OF SUMMARIZE SOME OF THE MAIN THINGS THAT I SAID, AND ALSO ADD A FEW FINAL THOUGHTS. OKAY, SO IN MY RESEARCH, I GUESS I FOUND THAT DISCRIMINATORY GENDERED AND RACIALIZED RHETORICS ARE USED TO, YOU KNOW, DEMONIZE INDIGENOUS WOMEN AND CHILDREN, IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY EXCLUSIONARY POLICIES AND PRACTICES. AND WHAT THIS DOES IS EFFECTIVELY DRAW ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH MARKET ECONOMIES THAT FAIL TO REALLY HELP THE POOR, TO INSTEAD FOCUS ON THE ALLEGED "VICES" OF INDIGENOUS BEGGARS THEMSELVES. I THINK, FURTHERMORE, WHILE ANTI-BEGGING RHETORICS ARE OFTEN PREMISED ON A NEED TO PROTECT CHILDREN, UM... IN PRACTICE, THEY ACTUALLY DO VERY LITTLE TO PROTECT KIDS. AND I THINK WHAT THEY'RE DOING INSTEAD IS THEY'RE JUST PUSHING RACIALIZED KIDS BACK TO THE COUNTRYSIDE WHERE THEY'RE DEEMED TO BELONG OR TO COLOMBIA OR, EVEN MORE WORRYING, TO NEW YORK CITY, WHERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S MUCH MORE HAZARDOUS, MUCH MORE-- THEIR PROBLEMS ARE PERSISTING AND, IN SOME CASES, ARE GETTING EVEN WORSE. I'D LIKE TO ALSO COMMENT ON THIS IDEA OF BEGGING AS A PATH TO PROGRESS. I THINK HOWEVER MARGINAL THIS PROGRESS IS, I DO FIND IT IRONIC THAT CALHUASENOS HAVE MANAGED TO CAPITALIZE ON BEGGING ON AN EFFECTIVE STRATEGY TO GET AHEAD. AND I THINK WITHIN IDEOLOGIES OF SORT OF CAPITALIST MODERNIZATION, THIS IS REALLY COUNTERINTUITIVE. THIS ISN'T WHAT YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN. BUT THROUGH THEIR WORK ON THE STREETS, THEY'VE BEEN ACTIVELY PULLING THEMSELVES INTO THE MODERNIZATION PROCESS, THEY'VE BEEN CHALLENGING THEIR ASSIGNED POSITIONS WITHIN ECUADOR'S SOCIAL AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES... AND, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE BEEN REALLY TRYING TO GET AHEAD. THEY'RE REJECTING EMPLOYMENT AS DOMESTIC WORKERS. THEY'RE STRIVING FOR A BETTER EDUCATION. AND THEY'RE USING THEIR EARNINGS TO SORT OF PARTICIPATE IN CONSUMER CULTURE. SO-- BUT I THINK, GIVEN FEW OPTIONS WITHIN ECUADOR'S SOCIAL AND RACIAL HIERARCHIES, THE FACT THAT BEGGING HAS-- IT REALLY HAS BECOME A WAY FOR THEM TO PURSUE THEIR EDUCATIONAL ASPIRATIONS AND IMPROVE THEIR MATERIAL CONDITIONS. BUT I THINK THE FACT THAT BEGGING IS DEEMED THE BEST OR THE MOST VIABLE OPTION WITHIN ECUADOR, I THINK SPEAKS TO THE VERY REAL AND CONTINUED OPPRESSION OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES, AND THIS IS AN OPPRESSION THAT IS BOTH VERY RACIALIZED AND VERY GENDERED. OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, EVERYONE. (applause) >> OKAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR A GREAT LECTURE ON YOUR FIELD RESEARCH. AND BEFORE I ASK THE AUDIENCE FOR QUESTIONS, FIRST LET ME SAY THAT KATE'S BOOK IS FOR SALE AND SHE WILL BE SIGNING COPIES, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, AND IT'S PRODUCED BY UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA PRESS, AND IT'S AN EXCELLENT PIECE OF WORK. >> I JUST WANT TO SAY I DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY ON THE BOOK. I'VE MADE $182 SO FAR. >> OH, OKAY, $182. >> YEAH, WHICH IS PRETTY GOOD FOR AN ACADEMIC BOOK. >> YEAH, USUALLY YOU DON'T MAKE-- YOU LOSE MONEY ON 'EM. >> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT. >> SO, $182 IS OKAY. >> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, SOMETIMES, YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PUBLISH YOUR WORK. >> BUT APPARENTLY, WE HAVE THE LAST REMAINING COPIES FROM GEORGIA PRESS-- THERE ARE ABOUT 30 OF THEM LEFT HERE BEFORE THE NEXT PRINTING. REGARDLESS, I HAVE A QUESTION, AS I PONDER THIS MATTER... BECAUSE HERE IN THE ANDES, THE DISCRIMINATION IS NOT ONLY SO SIGNIFICANT TOWARD THOSE INDIGENOUS FROM THE "WHITE" SIDE, BUT THOSE THAT ARE INDIGENOUS CONSIDER THEMSELVES TO BE INFERIOR, AS IF THEY'RE BRAINWASHED, AS WE SEE THROUGHOUT MUCH OF LATIN AMERICA, REALLY... AS THEY HAVE... EXPERIENCED THE ONSLAUGHT OF GLOBALIZATION. IN ONE WAY, THEY ARE COMPELLED TO ACCEPT THAT THERE IS THAT MARKED CORRELATION BETWEEN MODERNITY AND "WHITENESS," AND THAT SORT OF SUPERIORITY. BUT ARE THERE ANY MESSAGES THAT ARE TRANSMITTED THAT ENDORSE THEIR INDIGENOUS ANCESTRY? >> YEAH, I THINK-- I MEAN, THE FACT THAT ECUADOR HAS A VERY STRONG INDIGENOUS POLITICAL MOVEMENT BODES WELL FOR INDIGENOUS YOUTH. I THINK THE FACT THAT THEY'VE GOT A QUICHUA-LANGUAGE SCHOOL SYSTEM ALSO BODES REALLY WELL. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM CALHUASI-- THEY DON'T WANT THEIR KIDS TO LEARN IN QUICHUA, BECAUSE THEY THINK THAT'S GOING TO HOLD THEM BACK. UM... AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ARE NOW-- THE APARTMENTS THAT THEY'VE RENTED IN QUITO, THEY'RE LIVING IN THEM MORE FULL-TIME, SO THAT THEY CAN SEND THEIR KIDS TO SPANISH-LANGUAGE SCHOOL IN THE CITY. AND WHEN I WAS THERE LAST SUMMER, THERE WAS ONE LITTLE GIRL, AND THE PARENTS WERE VERY PROUD THAT SHE DIDN'T REALLY SPEAK QUICHUA ANYMORE. AND FOR KIDS THEMSELVES, I THINK IT'S PRETTY MIXED. I THINK-- I SUSPECT KIDS PROBABLY GO THROUGH STAGES, LIKE WE ALL DO WHEN WE'RE GROWING UP, WHERE AT VARIOUS STAGES, THEY'RE GOING TO REJECT THEIR ANCESTRY, WHERE MAYBE WHEN THEY GET A BIT OLDER, THEY MIGHT EMBRACE IT MORE. THERE'S A COUPLE OF KIDS A COUPLE VILLAGES OVER-- NOT KIDS ANYMORE, BUT-- THEY HAVE UNIVERSITY DEGREES. AND ONE OF THEM IS BACK-- THIS IS IN (indistinct) CHICO-- HE'S A TEACHER IN THAT VILLAGE NOW. AND SO, I THINK THAT'S GREAT. BUT THE WORRYING PART IS THAT HE MAY END UP MIGRATING, TOO. AND SO, IF ALL THE LEADERS COME TO NEW YORK CITY, UM... I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT WILL DO. AND THERE'S A FEW KIDS THAT HAVE BEEN BORN IN NEW YORK NOW. AND SO, THEY'RE GOING TO GROW UP AMERICAN. SO, I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I MEAN, I THINK IF SOMEBODY-- IF A FEW PEOPLE MAKE ENOUGH MONEY HERE AND GO BACK, AND THEN INVEST IN TOURISM PROJECT-- IT'S A BEAUTIFUL AREA. IF ANYONE WANTS TO DO TOURISM THERE. BUT YOU KNOW, INVEST IN SOMETHING TO HELP MAKE THE SITUATION BETTER, SO THAT-- 'CAUSE THE REALITY IS IS THERE'S NO JOBS. EVEN IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN YOUR VILLAGE, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT 'CAUSE HOW DO YOU MAKE MONEY? SO, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IN TERMS OF MAINTAINING AN INDIGENOUS IDENTITY, I THINK IT'S MIXED. BUT CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF DRESS, NOBODY-- THE KIDS NOW-- IF YOU LOOK ON FACEBOOK, VERY FEW WANT TO DRESS LIKE AN INDIGENOUS PERSON ANYMORE BECAUSE IT'S NOT MODERN. IT'S NOT LIKE WHAT YOU SEE ON TV, SO, YEAH... >> WELL, THANK YOU. ARE THERE QUESTIONS? QUESTIONS? WE'LL GO WITH YOU, THEN WITH YOU, AND THEN WITH YOU. GO AHEAD. >> I WAS KIND OF INTERESTED WHEN YOU SAID THAT SOME OF THE KIDS GO TO SCHOOL IN THE CITY. >> MMM-HMM. >> DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE IF ACTUALLY, IN THE SCHOOLS, IF THEY WERE TREATED BETTER OR WORSE, OR GIVEN A BETTER OR WORSE EDUCATION THAN THE OTHER KIDS? >> UM, I DON'T KNOW. YEAH, I THINK-- SO, I WENT TO ONE OF THE SCHOOLS IN AMBATO LAST SUMMER, WHICH IS THE CAPITAL OF TUNGURAHUA. AND I WAS TRYING TO GET A SENSE OF THAT, BUT... I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, I THINK THERE ARE VERY HIGH LEVELS OF RACISM, WHICH COULD BE WHY THE KIDS ARE... NOT SPEAKING QUICHUA. EVEN IF YOU HAVE A HEAVY QUICHUA ACCENT, YOU'RE GOING TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. UM... I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF VERY PROGRESSIVE PEOPLE IN ECUADOR AS WELL, TOO. SO, I GUESS IT PROBABLY JUST DEPENDS ON THE SCHOOL AND ON THE TEACHER, IN TERMS OF HOW THAT'S GONNA PAN OUT. >> CAN YOU PASS THAT BACK? >> HI. I WAS JUST WONDERING-- I KNOW YOU SPOKE BRIEFLY ABOUT HOW THE CHILDREN ARE TRYING TO MODERNIZE THEMSELVES AND, LIKE YOU SAID, THEY'RE ON FACEBOOK. HOW DO THE OLDER GENERATIONS FEEL ABOUT THE MODERNIZATION OF THEIR CULTURE? >> IT'S PROBABLY MIXED, BUT SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT I TALKED TO, THEY DON'T LIKE IT. THERE WAS ONE WOMEN-- I HAD HER PHOTO UP THERE-- BUT SHE WAS CRITICIZING HER DAUGHTER BECAUSE HER DAUGHTER DIDN'T WANT TO WEAR AN ANDEAN HAT ANYMORE, 'CAUSE SHE SAID IT LOOKS UGLY. BUT THE MOM WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, "I WILL NEVER TAKE OFF MY ANACU"-- ANACU IS A TRADITIONAL SKIRT. YOU KNOW, "I WILL ALWAYS WEAR MY HAT, I WILL ALWAYS EMBRACE MY CULTURE." I MEAN, "THIS IS WHO I AM." AND THEY WERE VERY MUCH BEMOANING THE FACT THAT YOUTH ARE REJECTING THAT. UM, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S A COMMON GENERATIONAL THING, I THINK, FOR ANYONE-- FOR IMMIGRANTS, FOR ANYONE. IT'S KIND OF-- IT'S A PROCESS THAT HAPPENS. AND YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY'S GONNA KEEP CHANGING, SO... >> IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, THERE'S LIKE OPEN AIR MARKET OPPORTUNITIES. IS THAT A VIABLE OPTION FOR THEM? IS THE RACISM SO SEVERE PEOPLE WOULDN'T FREQUENT IT? UM, I GUESS, IF THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL IN PUSHING THEM OFF THE STREETS, WHAT ARE-- DO YOU SEE ANY OTHER OPTIONS? >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. WHAT HAPPENED IN QUITO AND IN GUAYAQUIL IS THAT THEY TRIED TO CREATE FORMAL MARKETS... BUT THE FORMAL MARKETS WERE ONLY FOR STREET VENDORS THAT WERE ALREADY LICENSED OR THAT WERE PART OF UNIONS-- SO, THERE ARE VARIOUS STREET VENDOR UNIONS IN CITIES. THIS HAS TO DO, I SUPPOSE, WITH SOME OF THE HIERARCHIES THAT I TALKED ABOUT, SO FROM THIS COMMUNITY IN CALHUASI, THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH AT THE BOTTOM OF ANY INDIGENOUS HIERARCHY. UH, LITERACY RATES ARE VERY LOW... POVERTY RATES ARE VERY HIGH. SO, PEOPLE THAT WOULD BE WORKING IN THE MARKETS-- OFTEN THE MORE FORMALIZED MARKETS-- ARE PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE MIGRATED A GENERATION OR SO AGO. THEY'VE JUST HAD LONGER ROOTS IN THE CITY, THEY'VE GOT A BIT MORE PRIVILEGE. SO, BUT IT IS AN OPTION. I MEAN, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT-- THERE'S ONE ORGANIZATION IN QUITO THAT WAS TRYING TO FIND A WAY FOR THEM TO DO THAT, BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THAT SELL IN MARKETS AND HANDICRAFT MARKETS. BUT FOR THIS GROUP, IT HASN'T-- THAT HASN'T WORKED OUT YET. >> I UNDERSTAND IT WASN'T THE FOCUS OF YOUR RESEARCH SPECIFICALLY, BUT AS YOU WERE TOUCHING ON THE STRONG POLITICAL MOVEMENT AMONG THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLES OF ECUADOR. ARE THERE COUNTERMEASURES TO SOME OF THESE RACIALIZED MESSAGES THAT ARE BEING PUBLICIZED, OR WHAT TYPES OF ALTERNATIVES ARE BEING PRESENTED FOR THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AS THEY SEEK TO MODERNIZE THEMSELVES AND IMPOSE THEMSELVES-- ER, RATHER... INVOLVE THEMSELVES IN POLITICS AND THE MODERNIZATION PROCESS? >> RIGHT... UM, YEAH, I THINK DEFINITELY. AND WHAT HAPPENED IN-- I FORGET WHAT YEAR IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NOW-- IN THE 2000s, MAYBE 2004, 2005, LUCIO GUTIERREZ WAS THE PRESIDENT OF ECUADOR FOR A PERIOD-- HE GOT OVERTHROWN AS WELL, I BELIEVE. UM, BUT HE INITIALLY HAD AN INDIGENOUS CO-GOVERNMENT. SO, THE PACHAKUTIK IS KIND OF THE POLITICAL ARM OF THE LARGEST INDIGENOUS PARTY IN ECUADOR... I'M SORRY, INDIGENOUS SORT OF POLITICAL ORGANIZATION. AND SO, PACHAKUTIK AND GUTIERREZ'S PARTY FORMED THIS CO-GOVERNMENT. AND SO, THE MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE WAS AN INDIGENOUS WOMAN, THE INTERNATIONAL MINISTER, I THINK, WAS ALSO AN INDIGENOUS WOMAN, WHICH WAS FANTASTIC. BUT THINGS DIDN'T WORK OUT. THE CO-GOVERNMENT DISSOLVED, THE INDIGENOUS MEMBERS GOT KICKED OUT OF GOVERNMENT. UNDER CORREA, I THINK HE'S ACTUALLY PUT A LOT OF EFFORT INTO GETTING MORE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE AND ALSO AFRO-ECUADORIANS INTO THE GOVERNMENT AS WELL, TOO. SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS CHANGING, BUT IT'S GONNA TAKE A LONG TIME. YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST LIKE RACISM IN THIS COUNTRY. YOU KNOW, IT TAKES A LONG TIME FOR THINGS TO CHANGE, AND SO, IN CONVERSATIONS WITH TAXI DRIVERS, THEY'RE OFTEN-- THEY'RE QUITE TELLING. BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THEY TALK ABOUT "GOOD INDIANS" AND "BAD INDIANS." SO, IT'S-- I THINK IT'S HAPPENING. IT WILL HAPPEN, BUT IT'S JUST GONNA BE A LONG TIME BEFORE WE SEE EQUALITY ON THAT FRONT. >> HI, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TALK. IT'S VERY INTERESTING. IF I CORRECTLY UNDERSTAND THE CAUSALITY OF YOUR STORY, EVERYTHING STARTS WHEN MODERNITY COMES TO INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY, SO THAT MAKES THE INDIGENOUS COMMUNITY AWARE OF THEIR POSITION-- THEIR ECONOMIC POSITION IN THE WORLD, AND THAT PROMPTS THEM TO TRY TO IMPROVE THEIR POSITION BY GOING TO THE CITY. AND THIS, UM... TRIP OR THIS MOVE TO THE CITY, BASICALLY, CAUSES THEM TO BE-- I MEAN, PUTS THEM IN A SITUATION TO BE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. SO, COULD I CONCLUDE THAT THE GENERAL CONCLUSION OF YOUR RESEARCH IS THAT MODERNITY CAUSES DISCRIMINATION? >> NO, BECAUSE I THINK THE DISCRIMINATION WAS ALREADY THERE. I MEAN, I THINK THE DISCRIMINATION HAS EXISTED FOR A VERY LONG TIME, WHICH IS WHY THEY WERE UP IN THE MOUNTAINS. ORIGINALLY, THOSE FROM QUISAPINCHA HAD-- THEY-- THE LAND AND SORT OF THE LOWLANDS WAS THEIR LAND, BUT THEY'VE MOVED HIGHER AND HIGHER UP IN THE MOUNTAINS TO SORT OF PROTECT THEMSELVES... BECAUSE THERE WAS THE HACIENDA SYSTEM, THE ENCOMIENDA SYSTEM, WHERE THEY WERE BASICALLY TAKING LAND AND LABOR FROM INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES. SO, TO HIDE YOURSELF UP IN THE ANDES WAS YOUR BEST PROTECTION. AND THIS COMMUNITY WAS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS VERY "BRAVO" WAS THE WORD-- SO, THEY WERE, SORT OF-- IT WAS-- YOU KNOW, IT WAS SORT OF FIERCELY PROTECTING THEIR SOVEREIGNTY, ALMOST. BUT WHAT IT PROB-- AND SO, I THINK THE DISCRIMINATION'S BEEN THERE FOR A VERY LONG TIME, SINCE COLONIALISM, AT LEAST. BUT I THINK WHAT IT HAS DONE IS JUST THE MORE AWARENESS, I SUPPOSE, OF IT. AND I THINK IT'S MORE OF AN AWARENESS OF EVERYTHING THEY'RE MISSING OUT ON. I MEAN, SO SAY YOU'RE LIVING IN AN ADOBE HOUSE-- YOU SAW THE PICTURES OF HOW PEOPLE ARE LIVING-- AND YOU'RE WATCHING MEXICAN SOAP OPERAS EVERY NIGHT, AND YOU SEE THE HOUSES OF THE RICH AND FAMOUS AND THE FANCY CARS EVERYONE'S DRIVING... AND YOU'RE 15 YEARS OLD OR 16 YEARS OLD. I MEAN, I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THAT'S GONNA... IT'S GONNA HURT. AND SO, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO-- I THINK IT'S JUST MADE PEOPLE MORE AWARE OF HOW BAD THE SITUATION IS. >> I'M CURIOUS ABOUT THE SCHOOLS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT-- SOME OF THE CHILDREN BEING ABLE TO GO TO. ARE THEY SIMILAR? BECAUSE I HAVE A PICTURE IN MY MIND OF OUR SCHOOLS HERE. AND SO, DO THEY GO-- HOW OLD ARE THEY WHEN THEY-- DO THEY HAVE A HIGH SCHOOL THAT THEY GRADUATE FROM? >> RIGHT. >> IS IT PUBLIC AND FREE? >> YEAH, GOOD QUESTION. ACTUALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE COVER OF MY BOOK, THOSE ARE KIDS THAT ARE PEERING OUT OF A CLASSROOM WINDOW. IT'S A BROKEN CLASSROOM WINDOW. SO, THE SCHOOLS ARE NOT VERY GOOD, IN TERMS OF INFRASTRUCTURE. THE-- SO, THE BILINGUAL SCHOOL THAT WAS BUILT IN 1996-- IT HAS ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE CLASSROOMS. A LOT OF THE CLASSROOMS HAVE BROKEN WINDOWS. THEY DON'T REALLY HAVE-- I MEAN, THEY'VE GOT DESKS AND BLACKBOARDS, BUT... THE CONDITIONS ARE NOT LIKE HERE AT ALL. THE TEACHERS HAD TO DRIVE UP AND DOWN THE MUD ROADS ALL THE TIME TO GET TO SCHOOL, SO IT WOULD TAKE THE TEACHERS-- EVEN WITH THE ROAD-- IT WAS A MUD ROAD INITIALLY, THEN GRAVEL, THEN ACTUALLY JUST VERY RECENTLY, IT'S BEEN PAVED, SO THAT'LL CHANGE EVERYTHING. BUT UP UNTIL THIS POINT, YEAH, IT WOULD TAKE THE TEACHERS-- IF IT RAINED, THEY COULDN'T COME TO SCHOOL... OTHERWISE, IT WOULD BE A TWO-HOUR DRIVE INTO WORK EVERY DAY... BECAUSE NONE OF THE TEACHERS WERE FROM THE COMMUNITY, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE AN EDUCATION. SO, OFTEN, THE TEACHERS WOULDN'T COME, AND WHEN THEY DID COME, THEY'D ALWAYS LEAVE AT 1 O'CLOCK. UM, HIGH LEVELS OF CORPORAL PUNISHMENT. UM, THE... RESOURCES THEY'D HAVE WOULD BE TERRIBLE. SO, I DID A SURVEY. THE SURVEY I DID WAS WITH KIDS IN GRADE FIVE AND SIX, AND I FOUND THAT MOST OF THE KIDS IN GRADES FIVE AND SIX WERE BARELY LITERATE. THEY REALLY HAD A LOT OF STRUGGLE WRITING. SO, KIDS-- USUALLY IT'S NORMAL. IF YOU'RE LUCKY, IT'S CONSIDERED A BIG SUCCESS IF YOU GET A GRADE SIX EDUCATION. THAT'S KIND OF THE NORM THAT PEOPLE WILL GET. HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION REMAINS QUITE RARE. I MEAN, MORE PEOPLE ARE GETTING IT, BUT IT REMAINS QUITE RARE. SO, YOU'VE GOT LOW-QUALITY TEACHERS, UM, BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO WORK THERE. IN CANADA, YOU CAN COMPARE IT TO A LOT OF-- TEACHERS-- THEY GO UP INTO THE RESERVES OR WAY UP INTO THE NORTHERN TERRITORIES, AND IT'S JUST HARD-- IT'S HARD CONDITIONS WORKING UP THERE, SO NO ONE WANTS TO DO IT. AND, UM... YEAH, IT'S NOT LIKE EDUCATION HERE. >> UM, YOU SAID EARLY ON THAT PEOPLE GENERALLY GO FROM CALHUASI TO QUITO FOR A WEEK OR TWO AND BRING HOME WHAT THEY EARN. >> MMM-HMM. >> IF THEY'RE GOING TO COLOMBIA AND NEW YORK, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GOING TO BE LIKE A SEMI-PERMANENT OR PERMANENT MIGRATION, WHERE THEY'RE SENDING REMITTANCES INSTEAD. HOW DO YOU SEE THIS CHANGING, LIKE, THE FAMILY DYNAMIC AND OTHER AREAS AS A RESULT OF THE MORE PERMANENT LEAVING? >> YEAH, UH, SIGNIFICANTLY. THE-- COLOMBIA'S STILL TEMPORARY. SO, I THINK COLOMBIA PEOPLE-- IT'S CLOSE ENOUGH THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING FOR A SHORT PERIOD AND COMING BACK. BUT NEW YORK, YEAH, VERY SIGNIFICANTLY. I THINK PEOPLE ARE IMAGINING THAT THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO GO FOR A FEW YEARS. SO, MAYBE FIVE YEARS, AND THEN MAKE ENOUGH MONEY AND COME HOME. BUT I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO END UP-- AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO END UP STAYING LONGER. AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WITH A LOT OF MIGRANTS THAT COME, WELL, ANYWHERE. BUT YOU KNOW, ONCE YOU'RE IN A NEW PLACE, YOU START PUTTING DOWN ROOTS. UH, SAY YOU HAVE KIDS... YOU KNOW, YOU WANT THEM TO HAVE A BETTER OPPORTUNITY, AND SO, A LOT OF PEOPLE END UP STAYING LONGER. THERE'S GOING TO BE A GENERATION OF KIDS THAT ARE BEING RAISED WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS. AND, UH... YEAH, IT'LL BE VERY SIGNIFICANT. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH, I THINK-- BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RESEARCH OUT OF ECUADOR FOR SOME TIME, BUT MORE FROM SOUTHERN ECUADOR, AND THAT'S TO NEW YORK AND ALSO TO SPAIN. AND THERE'S BEEN SOME RESEARCH DONE ON THE IMPACTS ON THE KIDS. AND SO, KIDS ARE GETTING A BETTER EDUCATION, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTIONAL TRAUMA TO THAT. YOU KNOW, IT'S DIFFICULT GROWING UP WITHOUT YOUR MOM AND DAD. SO, YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I THINK IT'LL BE DIFFICULT. AND... I THINK IT'LL REALLY TRANSFORM THE COMMUNITY IN TONS OF WAYS. >> I THINK WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION. >> HAVE YOU HAD A CHANCE TO TALK TO THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW IN NEW YORK THAT HAVE COME? AND LIKE WHAT RESULTS WERE THEY GETTING? LIKE, ARE WE MEET-- LIKE, IS NEW YORK MEETING THEIR EXPECTATIONS? ARE THEY DOING OKAY? >> YEAH, I'VE BEEN TO NEW YORK TWICE. UH... AND, NO, I THINK IT'S, UH... I THINK THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO. UM... AND I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD-- I THINK IT'S REALLY HARD. THEY'RE WORKING-- AGAIN, YOU KNOW, ONE OR TWO JOBS, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. IF THEY GET SICK, THEY CAN'T WORK. WHAT DO YOU DO? THEIR JOURNEYS WERE AWFUL. SOME OF THEM, THEY SAID IT TOOK THEM 70 DAYS TO GET HERE. ONE OF THEM TOLD ME-- HE-- THIS IS SOME OF THE EARLIER ONES. SO, THERE'S A FEW EARLIER ONES THAT CAME, STARTING IN ABOUT 2008, BUT THE MOST HAVE BEEN SORT OF SINCE 2010. HE WAS ON A-- HE LEFT ECUADOR TO GUATEMALA. THEY TOOK A BOAT TO GET FROM ECUADOR TO GUATEMALA, IN A FISHING BOAT. THE FISHING BOATS GENERALLY HOLD ABOUT 15 TO 20 PEOPLE, AND THERE WERE 125 PEOPLE JAMMED INTO THE BOAT. THEY WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO BE IN THE HOLD UNDERNEATH, UH, FOR TWO WEEKS. YOU KNOW, VERY LITTLE FOOD, VERY LITTLE WATER. I THINK HE SAID THEY HAD A BANANA A DAY. HE SAID IT WAS BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH. LIKE, IT WAS-- SO, I THINK PEOPLE STARTED THIS JOURNEY WITHOUT REALLY KNOWING WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO, IN TERMS OF THE JOURNEY ITSELF. AND THEN, ONCE THEY'RE HERE, YEAH, IT'S HARD. THEY'RE WORKING INCREDIBLY HARD. WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IS THAT, UM... THEY WANT ME TO WRITE ABOUT THEIR LIVES HERE IN NEW YORK, BECAUSE THEY WANT THEIR KIDS TO KNOW HOW MUCH THEY'VE SACRIFICED TO BE HERE. UM, AND THEY ALSO WANT ME TO HELP THEM MAKE A DOCUMENTARY TO SEND BACK TO ECUADOR TO CONVINCE THE KIDS THERE NOT TO COME. (audience laughing) TO SHOW THEM HOW HARD LIFE IS HERE, AND THAT THEY'D BE BETTER OFF STAYING AT HOME. SO, UM, I... THAT'S WHAT I'M GOING TO LOOK UP NEXT, BUT IT'S A DIFFICULT SITUATION. IT REALLY IS. AND I THINK THIS IS THE CASE FOR A LOT OF MIGRANTS HERE. I THINK IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE. I'VE STARTED DOING SOME WORK WITH UNACCOMPANIED MINORS. UH, SO THESE ARE KIDS MIGRATING FROM CENTRAL AMERICA AND SOUTH AMERICA, THAT ARE IN THE U.S., AND I THINK, YEAH, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE WHAT LIFE IS LIKE HERE, BECAUSE YOU ONLY SEE IT ON TV AND YOU'RE CHASING THIS IDEA OF THE AMERICAN DREAM, AND THEN YOU GET HERE, AND IT'S-- YOUR LIFE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, SO... >> I'M GOING TO ASK YOU IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS TO ASK KATE. ONCE WE ADJOURN THIS FORMAL SESSION, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO DO SO. AND REMEMBER, IF YOU'D LIKE HER TO SIGN A COPY OF A BOOK, SHE'LL BE UP HERE, ENGAGING IN A BIT OF BOOK-SIGNING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. (applause)