John Irwin (baseball)

Transcription

LET'S LISTEN IN AS ED VISITS WITH DR. JOHN ERWIN, ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE PRESIDENT. WITH DR. JOHN ERWIN, ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE PRESIDENT. >> THE HISTORY OF ICC. CENTRAL COLLEGE PRESIDENT. >> THE HISTORY OF ICC. LET'S START THERE. >> THE HISTORY OF ICC. LET'S START THERE. SEPTEMBER OF '67 IT OPENS. LET'S START THERE. SEPTEMBER OF '67 IT OPENS. >> UH-HUH. SEPTEMBER OF '67 IT OPENS. >> UH-HUH. >>AND 2,496 STUDENTS, FACULTY OF >> UH-HUH. >>AND 2,496 STUDENTS, FACULTY OF 56. >>AND 2,496 STUDENTS, FACULTY OF 56. >>THAT'S CORRECT. 56. >>THAT'S CORRECT. >>TUITION WAS FIVE DOLLARS, >>THAT'S CORRECT. >>TUITION WAS FIVE DOLLARS, BUDGET 3.7 MILLION. >>TUITION WAS FIVE DOLLARS, BUDGET 3.7 MILLION. >>THE GOOD OLD DAYS. BUDGET 3.7 MILLION. >>THE GOOD OLD DAYS. >>WHAT IS IT LIKE NOW? >>THE GOOD OLD DAYS. >>WHAT IS IT LIKE NOW? >> FAR DIFFERENT IN NUMBERS. >>WHAT IS IT LIKE NOW? >> FAR DIFFERENT IN NUMBERS. OVER 13,000 CREDIT STUDENTS >> FAR DIFFERENT IN NUMBERS. OVER 13,000 CREDIT STUDENTS ENROLLED. OVER 13,000 CREDIT STUDENTS ENROLLED. THERE IS AT LEAST ANOTHER 8,000 ENROLLED. THERE IS AT LEAST ANOTHER 8,000 STUDENTS EVERY SEMESTER WE SERVE THERE IS AT LEAST ANOTHER 8,000 STUDENTS EVERY SEMESTER WE SERVE FOR NON-CREDIT WORKSHOPS, STUDENTS EVERY SEMESTER WE SERVE FOR NON-CREDIT WORKSHOPS, TRAINING, SEMINARS, ADULT FOR NON-CREDIT WORKSHOPS, TRAINING, SEMINARS, ADULT EDUCATION, ALL THOSE FIGURES TRAINING, SEMINARS, ADULT EDUCATION, ALL THOSE FIGURES TOGETHER MEANS AT ANY DIFFERENT EDUCATION, ALL THOSE FIGURES TOGETHER MEANS AT ANY DIFFERENT SEMESTER WE WILL HAVE OVER TOGETHER MEANS AT ANY DIFFERENT SEMESTER WE WILL HAVE OVER 21,000 STUDENTS CROSSING OUR SEMESTER WE WILL HAVE OVER 21,000 STUDENTS CROSSING OUR THRESHOLD, AND OUR BUDGET IS 21,000 STUDENTS CROSSING OUR THRESHOLD, AND OUR BUDGET IS $100 MILLION WITH $60 MILLION THRESHOLD, AND OUR BUDGET IS $100 MILLION WITH $60 MILLION OPERATING PORTION OF IT. $100 MILLION WITH $60 MILLION OPERATING PORTION OF IT. SO, YES, THERE HAS BEEN OPERATING PORTION OF IT. SO, YES, THERE HAS BEEN CONSIDERABLE CHANGE, AND THAT SO, YES, THERE HAS BEEN CONSIDERABLE CHANGE, AND THAT TUITION, IT IS $87 A CREDIT CONSIDERABLE CHANGE, AND THAT TUITION, IT IS $87 A CREDIT HOUR. TUITION, IT IS $87 A CREDIT HOUR. >> VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. HOUR. >> VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. >>VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. >> VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. >>VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. >>VERSUS 3.8 MILLION BUDGET >>VERSUS FIVE DOLLARS. >>VERSUS 3.8 MILLION BUDGET VERSUS HOW MUCH NOW? >>VERSUS 3.8 MILLION BUDGET VERSUS HOW MUCH NOW? >> AT LEAST $100 MILLION TOTAL VERSUS HOW MUCH NOW? >> AT LEAST $100 MILLION TOTAL BUDGET. >> AT LEAST $100 MILLION TOTAL BUDGET. >>100 MILLION. BUDGET. >>100 MILLION. >>UH-HUH. >>100 MILLION. >>UH-HUH. >>IS THIS A STORY OF THE LITTLE >>UH-HUH. >>IS THIS A STORY OF THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD AND, IN FACT, >>IS THIS A STORY OF THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULD AND, IN FACT, DID? ENGINE THAT COULD AND, IN FACT, DID? >> I THINK ONE WAY TO LOOK AT DID? >> I THINK ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THAT HISTORY IS THE CREDIT THAT >> I THINK ONE WAY TO LOOK AT THAT HISTORY IS THE CREDIT THAT OUR FOR FATHERS HAD, THE VISION THAT HISTORY IS THE CREDIT THAT OUR FOR FATHERS HAD, THE VISION THAT THEY HAD TO ESTABLISH THE OUR FOR FATHERS HAD, THE VISION THAT THEY HAD TO ESTABLISH THE COLLEGE IN 1967. THAT THEY HAD TO ESTABLISH THE COLLEGE IN 1967. I DON'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD HAVE COLLEGE IN 1967. I DON'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD HAVE FULLY ENVISIONED A FOUR CAMPUS, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY WOULD HAVE FULLY ENVISIONED A FOUR CAMPUS, 13,000 PLUS STUDENT BODY. FULLY ENVISIONED A FOUR CAMPUS, 13,000 PLUS STUDENT BODY. I THINK THEY HAD THE FORESIGHT 13,000 PLUS STUDENT BODY. I THINK THEY HAD THE FORESIGHT TO KNOW IT COULD GROW, AND THEY I THINK THEY HAD THE FORESIGHT TO KNOW IT COULD GROW, AND THEY ALLOTTED AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT TO KNOW IT COULD GROW, AND THEY ALLOTTED AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF LAND AND A SPACE THAT ALLOTTED AN APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF LAND AND A SPACE THAT AESTHETIC CALLY BEAUTIFUL, AND OF LAND AND A SPACE THAT AESTHETIC CALLY BEAUTIFUL, AND ONE IN WHICH THE COLLEGE COULD AESTHETIC CALLY BEAUTIFUL, AND ONE IN WHICH THE COLLEGE COULD THEN PLANT ITSELF AND THEN AS ONE IN WHICH THE COLLEGE COULD THEN PLANT ITSELF AND THEN AS LEADERSHIP WAS THERE, AS YEARS THEN PLANT ITSELF AND THEN AS LEADERSHIP WAS THERE, AS YEARS HAVE PASSED, THIS CONTINUED TO LEADERSHIP WAS THERE, AS YEARS HAVE PASSED, THIS CONTINUED TO GROW AND BE NURTURED. HAVE PASSED, THIS CONTINUED TO GROW AND BE NURTURED. >>WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR VISION GROW AND BE NURTURED. >>WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR VISION WAS? >>WHAT DO YOU THINK THEIR VISION WAS? DID THEY HAVE A VISION? WAS? DID THEY HAVE A VISION? >> YES, I THINK MR. JAMIE SON, DID THEY HAVE A VISION? >> YES, I THINK MR. JAMIE SON, MR. JOHNSON, SOME OF THE EARLY >> YES, I THINK MR. JAMIE SON, MR. JOHNSON, SOME OF THE EARLY LEADERS FOR THAT REFERENDUM AND MR. JOHNSON, SOME OF THE EARLY LEADERS FOR THAT REFERENDUM AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COLLEGE LEADERS FOR THAT REFERENDUM AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COLLEGE IN '67, THEY WERE PART OF A THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE COLLEGE IN '67, THEY WERE PART OF A CONVERSATION ABOUT COMMUNITY IN '67, THEY WERE PART OF A CONVERSATION ABOUT COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN THE COUNTRY. CONVERSATION ABOUT COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN THE COUNTRY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN THE COUNTRY. IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE MOVEMENT WHICH WAS IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE MOVEMENT WHICH WAS REALLY A WAVE THAT OCCURRED COLLEGE MOVEMENT WHICH WAS REALLY A WAVE THAT OCCURRED PREDOMINANTLY IN THE 1960'S, REALLY A WAVE THAT OCCURRED PREDOMINANTLY IN THE 1960'S, THEY WERE PART OF UNDERSTAND UNG PREDOMINANTLY IN THE 1960'S, THEY WERE PART OF UNDERSTAND UNG THAT THEIR COMMUNITY TO MEET A THEY WERE PART OF UNDERSTAND UNG THAT THEIR COMMUNITY TO MEET A DEMAND FOR WORK FORCE AND HIGHER THAT THEIR COMMUNITY TO MEET A DEMAND FOR WORK FORCE AND HIGHER EDUCATION, TO CREATE THE ACCESS DEMAND FOR WORK FORCE AND HIGHER EDUCATION, TO CREATE THE ACCESS NEEDED, A COMMUNITY COLLEGE EDUCATION, TO CREATE THE ACCESS NEEDED, A COMMUNITY COLLEGE WOULD SUIT THAT VERY WELL. NEEDED, A COMMUNITY COLLEGE WOULD SUIT THAT VERY WELL. >>WAS A FAILURE, A GAP AT THAT WOULD SUIT THAT VERY WELL. >>WAS A FAILURE, A GAP AT THAT POINT IN HIGH SCHOOL VERSUS >>WAS A FAILURE, A GAP AT THAT POINT IN HIGH SCHOOL VERSUS COLLEGE OR TRAINING -- WAS IT POINT IN HIGH SCHOOL VERSUS COLLEGE OR TRAINING -- WAS IT OBVIOUS IN RETROSPECT OR COLLEGE OR TRAINING -- WAS IT OBVIOUS IN RETROSPECT OR SOMETHING JUST VERY VISIONARY. OBVIOUS IN RETROSPECT OR SOMETHING JUST VERY VISIONARY. >>THAT'S A GOOD Q I UNDERSTAND SOMETHING JUST VERY VISIONARY. >>THAT'S A GOOD Q I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE TRUMAN COMMISSION >>THAT'S A GOOD Q I UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE TRUMAN COMMISSION FORMED AFTER WORLD WAR II, AND ABOUT THE TRUMAN COMMISSION FORMED AFTER WORLD WAR II, AND THE INFLUX OF GI'S RETURNING FORMED AFTER WORLD WAR II, AND THE INFLUX OF GI'S RETURNING FROM THE WAR, THE DEMAND ON THE INFLUX OF GI'S RETURNING FROM THE WAR, THE DEMAND ON HIGHER EDUCATION INCREASED FROM THE WAR, THE DEMAND ON HIGHER EDUCATION INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY, AND THE HIGHER EDUCATION INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY, AND THE UNIVERSITIES COULDN'T MEET THAT EXPONENTIALLY, AND THE UNIVERSITIES COULDN'T MEET THAT DEMAND. SO MANY GI'S OPTED OUT, UNIVERSITIES COULDN'T MEET THAT DEMAND. SO MANY GI'S OPTED OUT, DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE OR A DEMAND. SO MANY GI'S OPTED OUT, DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE OR A UNIVERSITY WHEN THEY MAY HAVE DIDN'T GO TO COLLEGE OR A UNIVERSITY WHEN THEY MAY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT IF THERE UNIVERSITY WHEN THEY MAY HAVE TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT IF THERE WAS MORE ACCESS POINTS. TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF IT IF THERE WAS MORE ACCESS POINTS. THAT WAS THE BACKDROP TO WHAT WAS MORE ACCESS POINTS. THAT WAS THE BACKDROP TO WHAT THEN OCCURRED IN THE 60'S, WHICH THAT WAS THE BACKDROP TO WHAT THEN OCCURRED IN THE 60'S, WHICH WAS A RESPONSE TO GROW A NUMBER THEN OCCURRED IN THE 60'S, WHICH WAS A RESPONSE TO GROW A NUMBER OF ASPECT POINTS, WHICH I ENDED WAS A RESPONSE TO GROW A NUMBER OF ASPECT POINTS, WHICH I ENDED UP AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE AS A OF ASPECT POINTS, WHICH I ENDED UP AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE AS A RESULT OF THAT. UP AT COMMUNITY COLLEGE AS A RESULT OF THAT. >>I HAVE A SENSE IN THESE DIRE RESULT OF THAT. >>I HAVE A SENSE IN THESE DIRE ECONOMIC TIMES, PEOPLE ARE >>I HAVE A SENSE IN THESE DIRE ECONOMIC TIMES, PEOPLE ARE RETURNING TO THE CAMPUS AND ECONOMIC TIMES, PEOPLE ARE RETURNING TO THE CAMPUS AND SECURING ADDITIONAL EDUCATION. RETURNING TO THE CAMPUS AND SECURING ADDITIONAL EDUCATION. >>THAT'S CORRECT. SECURING ADDITIONAL EDUCATION. >>THAT'S CORRECT. WE HAD ABOUT 12 PERCENT INCREASE >>THAT'S CORRECT. WE HAD ABOUT 12 PERCENT INCREASE THIS FALL IN ENROLLMENT THAT WE WE HAD ABOUT 12 PERCENT INCREASE THIS FALL IN ENROLLMENT THAT WE WERE NOT UNUSUAL. THIS FALL IN ENROLLMENT THAT WE WERE NOT UNUSUAL. MANY OF THE COLLEGES IN THE WERE NOT UNUSUAL. MANY OF THE COLLEGES IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, OF WHICH MANY OF THE COLLEGES IN THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, OF WHICH THERE ARE 48 COMMUNITY COLLEGES STATE OF ILLINOIS, OF WHICH THERE ARE 48 COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN ILLINOIS, IT IS THE THIRD THERE ARE 48 COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN ILLINOIS, IT IS THE THIRD LARGEST SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY IN ILLINOIS, IT IS THE THIRD LARGEST SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY BEHIND CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS. LARGEST SYSTEM IN THE COUNTRY BEHIND CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS. THE TOTAL ENROLLMENT IN A GIVEN BEHIND CALIFORNIA AND TEXAS. THE TOTAL ENROLLMENT IN A GIVEN YEAR AT COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN THE TOTAL ENROLLMENT IN A GIVEN YEAR AT COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN ILLINOIS IS A MILLION. YEAR AT COMMUNITY COLLEGES IN ILLINOIS IS A MILLION. SO IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY SOUGHT ILLINOIS IS A MILLION. SO IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY SOUGHT OFF AND I WOULD SAY BENEFIT TO SO IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY SOUGHT OFF AND I WOULD SAY BENEFIT TO OUR CULTURE AND OUR ECONOMY. OFF AND I WOULD SAY BENEFIT TO OUR CULTURE AND OUR ECONOMY. I WOULD AGREE THAT WITH A OUR CULTURE AND OUR ECONOMY. I WOULD AGREE THAT WITH A RECESSION, THERE HAS BEEN A I WOULD AGREE THAT WITH A RECESSION, THERE HAS BEEN A RETURN TO LOOK AT SKILL SETS, TO RECESSION, THERE HAS BEEN A RETURN TO LOOK AT SKILL SETS, TO LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY A RETURN TO LOOK AT SKILL SETS, TO LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY A COMMUNITY COLLEGE OFFERS. LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY A COMMUNITY COLLEGE OFFERS. >>I VIEW ICC AS BEING A COMMUNITY COLLEGE OFFERS. >>I VIEW ICC AS BEING A CONTRADICTORY COLLEGE. >>I VIEW ICC AS BEING A CONTRADICTORY COLLEGE. BY THAT, I MEAN, IT HAS FOUR CONTRADICTORY COLLEGE. BY THAT, I MEAN, IT HAS FOUR MISSIONS: LEISURE, BY THAT, I MEAN, IT HAS FOUR MISSIONS: LEISURE, CONTINUING EDUCATION, CULTURAL MISSIONS: LEISURE, CONTINUING EDUCATION, CULTURAL ACTIVITIES. CONTINUING EDUCATION, CULTURAL ACTIVITIES. TRANSFERS TO A FOUR YEAR ACTIVITIES. TRANSFERS TO A FOUR YEAR INSTITUTION WITH DUAL CREDITS. TRANSFERS TO A FOUR YEAR INSTITUTION WITH DUAL CREDITS. FRESH STARTS, A PERSON WHO INSTITUTION WITH DUAL CREDITS. FRESH STARTS, A PERSON WHO FAILED INITIALLY AND STARTING FRESH STARTS, A PERSON WHO FAILED INITIALLY AND STARTING AGAIN, AND FINALLY VOCATIONAL FAILED INITIALLY AND STARTING AGAIN, AND FINALLY VOCATIONAL AND CAREER TRAINING, CATERPILLAR AGAIN, AND FINALLY VOCATIONAL AND CAREER TRAINING, CATERPILLAR PARTNERSHIP WE CALL IT. AND CAREER TRAINING, CATERPILLAR PARTNERSHIP WE CALL IT. YOU ARE IN THE CAT-BIRD SEAT, PARTNERSHIP WE CALL IT. YOU ARE IN THE CAT-BIRD SEAT, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE AC BY YOU ARE IN THE CAT-BIRD SEAT, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE AC BY GU TIES, THE ABSENCE OF A SINGLE HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THE AC BY GU TIES, THE ABSENCE OF A SINGLE VISION? GU TIES, THE ABSENCE OF A SINGLE VISION? >> I BELIEVE THERE IS A SINGLE VISION? >> I BELIEVE THERE IS A SINGLE VISION, BUT THAT VISION YOU HAVE >> I BELIEVE THERE IS A SINGLE VISION, BUT THAT VISION YOU HAVE MENTIONED THE PRONGS, THE VISION, BUT THAT VISION YOU HAVE MENTIONED THE PRONGS, THE PORTIONS OF IT. MENTIONED THE PRONGS, THE PORTIONS OF IT. THE SINGLE VISION IS MEETING PORTIONS OF IT. THE SINGLE VISION IS MEETING COMMUNITY NEED. THE SINGLE VISION IS MEETING COMMUNITY NEED. WHETHER THERE IS COMMUNITY NEED COMMUNITY NEED. WHETHER THERE IS COMMUNITY NEED FOR ACCESS TO INCREASED SKILL WHETHER THERE IS COMMUNITY NEED FOR ACCESS TO INCREASED SKILL SETS, WORK FORCE OPPORTUNITIES, FOR ACCESS TO INCREASED SKILL SETS, WORK FORCE OPPORTUNITIES, TRANSFER ABILITY TOWARD SETS, WORK FORCE OPPORTUNITIES, TRANSFER ABILITY TOWARD BACCALAUREATE COMPLETION, THOSE TRANSFER ABILITY TOWARD BACCALAUREATE COMPLETION, THOSE ARE ALL THE PIECES THAT ARE PART BACCALAUREATE COMPLETION, THOSE ARE ALL THE PIECES THAT ARE PART OF T I DON'T FEEL SPLINTERED BY ARE ALL THE PIECES THAT ARE PART OF T I DON'T FEEL SPLINTERED BY THE VARIOUS ASPECTS OF A SINGLE OF T I DON'T FEEL SPLINTERED BY THE VARIOUS ASPECTS OF A SINGLE MISSION OF MEETING OUR COMMUNITY THE VARIOUS ASPECTS OF A SINGLE MISSION OF MEETING OUR COMMUNITY NEED WHICH MEANS WE WILL CHANGE. MISSION OF MEETING OUR COMMUNITY NEED WHICH MEANS WE WILL CHANGE. COMMUNITY NEEDS CHANGE. NEED WHICH MEANS WE WILL CHANGE. COMMUNITY NEEDS CHANGE. AND SO I THINK OF THE HALLMARKS COMMUNITY NEEDS CHANGE. AND SO I THINK OF THE HALLMARKS OF THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ONE AND SO I THINK OF THE HALLMARKS OF THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ONE WOULD BE RESPONSIVE NES AND OF THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE, ONE WOULD BE RESPONSIVE NES AND NIMBLE NES, FLEXIBILITY, KEEPING WOULD BE RESPONSIVE NES AND NIMBLE NES, FLEXIBILITY, KEEPING OUR BUREAUCRACY AND OUR NIMBLE NES, FLEXIBILITY, KEEPING OUR BUREAUCRACY AND OUR STRUCTURE TO A MINIMUM. OUR BUREAUCRACY AND OUR STRUCTURE TO A MINIMUM. THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF STRUCTURE TO A MINIMUM. THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF MY ROLE AS LEADER TO BE ABLE TO THOSE ARE IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF MY ROLE AS LEADER TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE WE HAVE THOSE QUALITIES MY ROLE AS LEADER TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE WE HAVE THOSE QUALITIES AS WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT ENSURE WE HAVE THOSE QUALITIES AS WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT CONTACTS AND GLANCE INTO THE AS WE LOOK AT THE CURRENT CONTACTS AND GLANCE INTO THE FUTURE. CONTACTS AND GLANCE INTO THE FUTURE. >>BUT YOU ARE MANAGING PARADOX, FUTURE. >>BUT YOU ARE MANAGING PARADOX, YOU ARE MANAGING CONSTANT CHANGE >>BUT YOU ARE MANAGING PARADOX, YOU ARE MANAGING CONSTANT CHANGE , AS COMPARED WITH C.E.O. YOU ARE MANAGING CONSTANT CHANGE , AS COMPARED WITH C.E.O. OF NUCO WHICH SELLS WIDGETS, , AS COMPARED WITH C.E.O. OF NUCO WHICH SELLS WIDGETS, WHERE THERE IS A SINGLE FOCUS. OF NUCO WHICH SELLS WIDGETS, WHERE THERE IS A SINGLE FOCUS. YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS WHERE THERE IS A SINGLE FOCUS. YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PARADOXICAL APPROACH TO YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THIS PARADOXICAL APPROACH TO LEADERSHIP? PARADOXICAL APPROACH TO LEADERSHIP? >> YES, MICHAEL GELB TALKED LEADERSHIP? >> YES, MICHAEL GELB TALKED ABOUT IT IN "THINKING LIKE >> YES, MICHAEL GELB TALKED ABOUT IT IN "THINKING LIKE LEONARDO DI VINCI" WHERE HE ABOUT IT IN "THINKING LIKE LEONARDO DI VINCI" WHERE HE DESCRIBED, SUMATO, ITALIAN TERM LEONARDO DI VINCI" WHERE HE DESCRIBED, SUMATO, ITALIAN TERM FOR "SMOKE" WHICH MEANS PARTLY DESCRIBED, SUMATO, ITALIAN TERM FOR "SMOKE" WHICH MEANS PARTLY THERE, SEEN, MOVES CONSTANTLY, FOR "SMOKE" WHICH MEANS PARTLY THERE, SEEN, MOVES CONSTANTLY, CHANGES SHAPE WHAT IS OUR THERE, SEEN, MOVES CONSTANTLY, CHANGES SHAPE WHAT IS OUR COMFORT RANGE FOR AMBIGUITY, CHANGES SHAPE WHAT IS OUR COMFORT RANGE FOR AMBIGUITY, BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THAT WHICH COMFORT RANGE FOR AMBIGUITY, BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THAT WHICH IS LESS CLEAR. BEING ABLE TO HANDLE THAT WHICH IS LESS CLEAR. COMMUNITY COLLEGES DO REFLECTING IS LESS CLEAR. COMMUNITY COLLEGES DO REFLECTING THAT. COMMUNITY COLLEGES DO REFLECTING THAT. ERWIN MIND, CONVERGENT, DI VER THAT. ERWIN MIND, CONVERGENT, DI VER GENT, QUANTITATIVE, QUALITATIVE, ERWIN MIND, CONVERGENT, DI VER GENT, QUANTITATIVE, QUALITATIVE, OR ALL OF THE ABOVE. GENT, QUANTITATIVE, QUALITATIVE, OR ALL OF THE ABOVE. >>MY GRANDFATHER WAS A OR ALL OF THE ABOVE. >>MY GRANDFATHER WAS A MATHMETICIAN. >>MY GRANDFATHER WAS A MATHMETICIAN. MY FATHER WAS ONE IN TEN MATHMETICIAN. MY FATHER WAS ONE IN TEN CHILDREN. WHEN I THINK OF MY MY FATHER WAS ONE IN TEN CHILDREN. WHEN I THINK OF MY UPBRINGING IN A LARGE FAMILY CHILDREN. WHEN I THINK OF MY UPBRINGING IN A LARGE FAMILY WITH A LOT OF DIVERSITY KIND OF UPBRINGING IN A LARGE FAMILY WITH A LOT OF DIVERSITY KIND OF A THEME THAT RAN THROUGH THE WITH A LOT OF DIVERSITY KIND OF A THEME THAT RAN THROUGH THE ERWIN FAMILY WAS MATHEMATICAL A THEME THAT RAN THROUGH THE ERWIN FAMILY WAS MATHEMATICAL ABILITY. ERWIN FAMILY WAS MATHEMATICAL ABILITY. HE I HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY ABILITY. HE I HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY MEMBERS ENGINEERS, HE I HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY MEMBERS ENGINEERS, MATHMETICIANS. MEMBERS ENGINEERS, MATHMETICIANS. MY OWN FATHER WAS A MACHINIST. MATHMETICIANS. MY OWN FATHER WAS A MACHINIST. IF YOU WERE AN ERWIN AND GROWING MY OWN FATHER WAS A MACHINIST. IF YOU WERE AN ERWIN AND GROWING UP, YOU HAD TO BE VERSED IN IF YOU WERE AN ERWIN AND GROWING UP, YOU HAD TO BE VERSED IN MATHEMATICS. UP, YOU HAD TO BE VERSED IN MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO BE ACCOMPLISHED IN MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO BE ACCOMPLISHED IN MATHEMATICS. YOU HAD TO BE ACCOMPLISHED IN MATHEMATICS. THAT WAS A PRESSURE POINT ON ME MATHEMATICS. THAT WAS A PRESSURE POINT ON ME GROWING UP. THAT WAS A PRESSURE POINT ON ME GROWING UP. SO I WAS GOOD AT MATHEMATICS. GROWING UP. SO I WAS GOOD AT MATHEMATICS. AND SO WERE MY BROTHERS AND SO I WAS GOOD AT MATHEMATICS. AND SO WERE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS. AND SO WERE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS. BUT I DIDN'T ENJOY MATHEMATICS. SISTERS. BUT I DIDN'T ENJOY MATHEMATICS. I JUST DID MATHEMATICS. BUT I DIDN'T ENJOY MATHEMATICS. I JUST DID MATHEMATICS. WHAT HE I LOVED WAS BIOGRAPHY. I JUST DID MATHEMATICS. WHAT HE I LOVED WAS BIOGRAPHY. WHEN I PICKED UP MY FIRST BOOK, WHAT HE I LOVED WAS BIOGRAPHY. WHEN I PICKED UP MY FIRST BOOK, AND LOOKED AT A STORY OF SOMEONE WHEN I PICKED UP MY FIRST BOOK, AND LOOKED AT A STORY OF SOMEONE 'S LIFE THAT ATTRACTED AND LOOKED AT A STORY OF SOMEONE 'S LIFE THAT ATTRACTED ME. 'S LIFE THAT ATTRACTED ME. >>WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST ME. >>WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST PROFESSIONAL HURDLE TO >>WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST PROFESSIONAL HURDLE TO ACCOMPLISH THE OBJECTIVES YOU PROFESSIONAL HURDLE TO ACCOMPLISH THE OBJECTIVES YOU HAVE EXPRESSED, INTELLECTUALLY? ACCOMPLISH THE OBJECTIVES YOU HAVE EXPRESSED, INTELLECTUALLY? >> I BELIEVE IT IS CONTINUING TO HAVE EXPRESSED, INTELLECTUALLY? >> I BELIEVE IT IS CONTINUING TO EXPLORE SOME OF THE VERY EARLY >> I BELIEVE IT IS CONTINUING TO EXPLORE SOME OF THE VERY EARLY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ASKED EXPLORE SOME OF THE VERY EARLY QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ASKED ABOUT LIFE IN GENERAL. QUESTIONS THAT I HAVE ASKED ABOUT LIFE IN GENERAL. IS THERE LIFE AFTER LIFE? ABOUT LIFE IN GENERAL. IS THERE LIFE AFTER LIFE? IS THERE A SOUL? IS THERE LIFE AFTER LIFE? IS THERE A SOUL? WHAT IS THE CONDITIONS UPON IS THERE A SOUL? WHAT IS THE CONDITIONS UPON WHICH THERE IS TRANSMIGRATION OF WHAT IS THE CONDITIONS UPON WHICH THERE IS TRANSMIGRATION OF THAT SOUL? WHICH THERE IS TRANSMIGRATION OF THAT SOUL? WHAT ARE DO THE VARIOUS FAITHS THAT SOUL? WHAT ARE DO THE VARIOUS FAITHS SAY ABOUT THE MEANINGFUL NES OF WHAT ARE DO THE VARIOUS FAITHS SAY ABOUT THE MEANINGFUL NES OF LIFE. SAY ABOUT THE MEANINGFUL NES OF LIFE. YOU I WOULD SAY WHETHER IT IS A LIFE. YOU I WOULD SAY WHETHER IT IS A YEAR FROM ARE NOW OR TEN YEARS YOU I WOULD SAY WHETHER IT IS A YEAR FROM ARE NOW OR TEN YEARS FROM NOW, I WILL STILL BE OPEN YEAR FROM ARE NOW OR TEN YEARS FROM NOW, I WILL STILL BE OPEN TO WHAT THE THINKERS OF OUR TIME FROM NOW, I WILL STILL BE OPEN TO WHAT THE THINKERS OF OUR TIME HAVE SAID ABOUT THOSE MATTERS. TO WHAT THE THINKERS OF OUR TIME HAVE SAID ABOUT THOSE MATTERS. WHAT BRINGS OUT THE BEST IN HAVE SAID ABOUT THOSE MATTERS. WHAT BRINGS OUT THE BEST IN PEOPLE? WHAT BRINGS OUT THE BEST IN PEOPLE? WHAT IS THE OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE PEOPLE? WHAT IS THE OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE OF ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL? WHAT IS THE OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE OF ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL? WHAT ARE THE STRONGEST OF ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL? WHAT ARE THE STRONGEST MOTIVATIONS FOR ANY PERSON TO WHAT ARE THE STRONGEST MOTIVATIONS FOR ANY PERSON TO ACHIEVE? MOTIVATIONS FOR ANY PERSON TO ACHIEVE? AND AS A LEADER OF VIBRANT ACHIEVE? AND AS A LEADER OF VIBRANT INSTITUTION, WHAT CAN MY ROLE BE AND AS A LEADER OF VIBRANT INSTITUTION, WHAT CAN MY ROLE BE IN TAPPING THAT, SUPPORTING INSTITUTION, WHAT CAN MY ROLE BE IN TAPPING THAT, SUPPORTING THAT, CULTIVATING THAT ASPECT IN IN TAPPING THAT, SUPPORTING THAT, CULTIVATING THAT ASPECT IN PEOPLE? THAT, CULTIVATING THAT ASPECT IN PEOPLE? >> LET'S TURN TO THE BEGINNING PEOPLE? >> LET'S TURN TO THE BEGINNING OF JOHN, BIRTHPLACE, LA FAYETTE, >> LET'S TURN TO THE BEGINNING OF JOHN, BIRTHPLACE, LA FAYETTE, INDIANA. OF JOHN, BIRTHPLACE, LA FAYETTE, INDIANA. PARENTS, AS YOU SUGGESTED BOTH INDIANA. PARENTS, AS YOU SUGGESTED BOTH WORKED OUTSIDE THE HOME. PARENTS, AS YOU SUGGESTED BOTH WORKED OUTSIDE THE HOME. SIBLINGS, TOTAL OF FOUR OR FIVE. WORKED OUTSIDE THE HOME. SIBLINGS, TOTAL OF FOUR OR FIVE. >>THERE WERE FOUR OF US. SIBLINGS, TOTAL OF FOUR OR FIVE. >>THERE WERE FOUR OF US. YOUR YOUTH FULL SPORTS >>THERE WERE FOUR OF US. YOUR YOUTH FULL SPORTS ACTIVITIES, BASKETBALL, I YOUR YOUTH FULL SPORTS ACTIVITIES, BASKETBALL, I PRESUME? ACTIVITIES, BASKETBALL, I PRESUME? >> I ENJOYED SPORTS AT AN EARLY PRESUME? >> I ENJOYED SPORTS AT AN EARLY AGE. >> I ENJOYED SPORTS AT AN EARLY AGE. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE OUTLETS, AGE. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE OUTLETS, RECREATIONALLY JUST TO BE IT WAS ONE OF THOSE OUTLETS, RECREATIONALLY JUST TO BE OUTSIDE WAS A JOY. RECREATIONALLY JUST TO BE OUTSIDE WAS A JOY. I HAD A BROTHER THAT WAS JUST A OUTSIDE WAS A JOY. I HAD A BROTHER THAT WAS JUST A YEAR YOUNGER. I HAD A BROTHER THAT WAS JUST A YEAR YOUNGER. SO WE OFTEN PLAYED CATCH, TOSSED YEAR YOUNGER. SO WE OFTEN PLAYED CATCH, TOSSED THE FOOTBALL. SO WE OFTEN PLAYED CATCH, TOSSED THE FOOTBALL. I HAD A FATHER THAT LIKED THE FOOTBALL. I HAD A FATHER THAT LIKED BASEBALL PROBABLY AS HIS BEST I HAD A FATHER THAT LIKED BASEBALL PROBABLY AS HIS BEST SPORT. BASEBALL PROBABLY AS HIS BEST SPORT. SO PLAYING CATCH, SHAGGING SPORT. SO PLAYING CATCH, SHAGGING FLIES, ALL PART OF MY UPBRINGING SO PLAYING CATCH, SHAGGING FLIES, ALL PART OF MY UPBRINGING AND SOME OF THE SPECIAL MOMENTS FLIES, ALL PART OF MY UPBRINGING AND SOME OF THE SPECIAL MOMENTS I HAD WITH MY FATHER. AND SOME OF THE SPECIAL MOMENTS I HAD WITH MY FATHER. FISHING, HUNTING, THE I HAD WITH MY FATHER. FISHING, HUNTING, THE TRADITIONAL SPORTS, FOOTBALL, FISHING, HUNTING, THE TRADITIONAL SPORTS, FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, BASEBALL, BUT OF ALL TRADITIONAL SPORTS, FOOTBALL, BASKETBALL, BASEBALL, BUT OF ALL OF THOSE, THE ONE THAT PROBABLY BASKETBALL, BASEBALL, BUT OF ALL OF THOSE, THE ONE THAT PROBABLY I HELD MOST DEAR WAS BASKETBALL. OF THOSE, THE ONE THAT PROBABLY I HELD MOST DEAR WAS BASKETBALL. >> YOUR EARLIEST PASSION WAS I HELD MOST DEAR WAS BASKETBALL. >> YOUR EARLIEST PASSION WAS WHAT? >> YOUR EARLIEST PASSION WAS WHAT? >> READING. WHAT? >> READING. WITHOUT A DOUBT. >> READING. WITHOUT A DOUBT. FIRST THING I CAN REMEMBER WITHOUT A DOUBT. FIRST THING I CAN REMEMBER LOVING TO DO WAS PICKING UP A FIRST THING I CAN REMEMBER LOVING TO DO WAS PICKING UP A BOOK. LOVING TO DO WAS PICKING UP A BOOK. ~L IT WAS FROM A VERY EARLY AGE, BOOK. ~L IT WAS FROM A VERY EARLY AGE, AND THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST ~L IT WAS FROM A VERY EARLY AGE, AND THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST PASSION. AND THAT WOULD BE MY FIRST PASSION. >>AND YOUR SPOUSE, BECKY, IS AN PASSION. >>AND YOUR SPOUSE, BECKY, IS AN ELEMENTARY EDUCATION TEACHER IN >>AND YOUR SPOUSE, BECKY, IS AN ELEMENTARY EDUCATION TEACHER IN DUNLAP, AND YOU HAVE THREE ELEMENTARY EDUCATION TEACHER IN DUNLAP, AND YOU HAVE THREE CHILDREN, LAUREN, CHRISTIN AND, DUNLAP, AND YOU HAVE THREE CHILDREN, LAUREN, CHRISTIN AND, ANDREW, ONE IS AT I ARE CC. CHILDREN, LAUREN, CHRISTIN AND, ANDREW, ONE IS AT I ARE CC. >>UH-HUH. ANDREW, ONE IS AT I ARE CC. >>UH-HUH. >>AS A VERY YOUNG PERSON, WE ARE >>UH-HUH. >>AS A VERY YOUNG PERSON, WE ARE GETTING BACK TO LA FAYETTE, >>AS A VERY YOUNG PERSON, WE ARE GETTING BACK TO LA FAYETTE, INDIANA, WHERE YOU WERE READING GETTING BACK TO LA FAYETTE, INDIANA, WHERE YOU WERE READING OR THROWING THE BASEBALL, INDIANA, WHERE YOU WERE READING OR THROWING THE BASEBALL, FOOTBALL, OR BASKETBALL, WHAT OR THROWING THE BASEBALL, FOOTBALL, OR BASKETBALL, WHAT WAS YOUR GREATEST FEAR AT THAT FOOTBALL, OR BASKETBALL, WHAT WAS YOUR GREATEST FEAR AT THAT TIME? WAS YOUR GREATEST FEAR AT THAT TIME? >> THAT I WOULDN'T MEET THE TIME? >> THAT I WOULDN'T MEET THE EXPECTATIONS THAT MY FATHER HAD >> THAT I WOULDN'T MEET THE EXPECTATIONS THAT MY FATHER HAD FOR ME OR MY GRANDFATHER HAD FOR EXPECTATIONS THAT MY FATHER HAD FOR ME OR MY GRANDFATHER HAD FOR ME WOULD PROBABLY BE MY GREATEST FOR ME OR MY GRANDFATHER HAD FOR ME WOULD PROBABLY BE MY GREATEST FEAR, SOMEHOW I WOULD FALL SHORT ME WOULD PROBABLY BE MY GREATEST FEAR, SOMEHOW I WOULD FALL SHORT OF THEIR EXPECTATIONS. FEAR, SOMEHOW I WOULD FALL SHORT OF THEIR EXPECTATIONS. >>MOST-HIGH SCHOOL, 14 YEARS OF OF THEIR EXPECTATIONS. >>MOST-HIGH SCHOOL, 14 YEARS OF FORMAL ACADEMIC EDUCATION, >>MOST-HIGH SCHOOL, 14 YEARS OF FORMAL ACADEMIC EDUCATION, BACHELOR OF ARTS, UNIVERSITY OF FORMAL ACADEMIC EDUCATION, BACHELOR OF ARTS, UNIVERSITY OF INDIANAPOLIS, RELIGION AND ENG BACHELOR OF ARTS, UNIVERSITY OF INDIANAPOLIS, RELIGION AND ENG ISH, METHODIST THEOLOGICAL INDIANAPOLIS, RELIGION AND ENG ISH, METHODIST THEOLOGICAL SCHOOL, DELAWARE, INDIANA ISH, METHODIST THEOLOGICAL SCHOOL, DELAWARE, INDIANA UNIVERSITY, POST DOCTORATE AT SCHOOL, DELAWARE, INDIANA UNIVERSITY, POST DOCTORATE AT OHIO, HEBREW UNIVERSITY IN UNIVERSITY, POST DOCTORATE AT OHIO, HEBREW UNIVERSITY IN JERUSALEM, HARVARD. OHIO, HEBREW UNIVERSITY IN JERUSALEM, HARVARD. FIRST OF THIS WAS OF ILLINOIS JERUSALEM, HARVARD. FIRST OF THIS WAS OF ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE, LANDS OF THE IS FIRST OF THIS WAS OF ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE, LANDS OF THE IS IT ALBINO SQUIRRELS. CENTRAL COLLEGE, LANDS OF THE IS IT ALBINO SQUIRRELS. >>WHITE SQUIRRELS. IT ALBINO SQUIRRELS. >>WHITE SQUIRRELS. >>WHY SO LONG A JOURNEY? >>WHITE SQUIRRELS. >>WHY SO LONG A JOURNEY? >> I CALL IT THE LIFE OF THE >>WHY SO LONG A JOURNEY? >> I CALL IT THE LIFE OF THE MIND. >> I CALL IT THE LIFE OF THE MIND. IT WAS THAT CONTINUED QUEST TO MIND. IT WAS THAT CONTINUED QUEST TO SEEK ANSWERS TO SOME VERY LARGE IT WAS THAT CONTINUED QUEST TO SEEK ANSWERS TO SOME VERY LARGE QUESTIONS IN LIFE ABOUT SEEK ANSWERS TO SOME VERY LARGE QUESTIONS IN LIFE ABOUT MEANINGFUL NES. QUESTIONS IN LIFE ABOUT MEANINGFUL NES. THE ACTUAL EMPLOYMENT PIECE OF MEANINGFUL NES. THE ACTUAL EMPLOYMENT PIECE OF BEING A PROFESSOR AT A COLLEGE THE ACTUAL EMPLOYMENT PIECE OF BEING A PROFESSOR AT A COLLEGE TO ME, WAS A NATURAL EXTENSION BEING A PROFESSOR AT A COLLEGE TO ME, WAS A NATURAL EXTENSION OF THAT LIFE OF THE MIND. TO ME, WAS A NATURAL EXTENSION OF THAT LIFE OF THE MIND. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE IS MORE OF THAT LIFE OF THE MIND. I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE IS MORE ENJOYABLE PROFESSION THAN THE I CAN'T BELIEVE THERE IS MORE ENJOYABLE PROFESSION THAN THE PROFESSORAU ARE REAT, TO BE ENJOYABLE PROFESSION THAN THE PROFESSORAU ARE REAT, TO BE REGULAR ENGAGED WITH READING AND PROFESSORAU ARE REAT, TO BE REGULAR ENGAGED WITH READING AND LEARNING AND IMPARTING THAT, DE REGULAR ENGAGED WITH READING AND LEARNING AND IMPARTING THAT, DE BRATING, WORKING WITH STUDENTS, LEARNING AND IMPARTING THAT, DE BRATING, WORKING WITH STUDENTS, SEEKING SOME INSIGHT INTO THEIR BRATING, WORKING WITH STUDENTS, SEEKING SOME INSIGHT INTO THEIR OWN QUEST, TREMENDOUSLY SEEKING SOME INSIGHT INTO THEIR OWN QUEST, TREMENDOUSLY SATISFYING CAREER. OWN QUEST, TREMENDOUSLY SATISFYING CAREER. SO THAT'S HOW I STARTED. SATISFYING CAREER. SO THAT'S HOW I STARTED. THOSE SAME INTERESTS ARE THERE SO THAT'S HOW I STARTED. THOSE SAME INTERESTS ARE THERE FOR ME. THOSE SAME INTERESTS ARE THERE FOR ME. I HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FOR ME. I HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ROLE NOW. I HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT ROLE NOW. BUT EARLY ON, THAT'S WHAT ROLE NOW. BUT EARLY ON, THAT'S WHAT MOTIVATED ME AND PROMPTED ME TO BUT EARLY ON, THAT'S WHAT MOTIVATED ME AND PROMPTED ME TO START THAT CAREER. MOTIVATED ME AND PROMPTED ME TO START THAT CAREER. IN THE EARLY 80'S, WE WERE START THAT CAREER. IN THE EARLY 80'S, WE WERE COMING OUT OF THE DEEP IN THE EARLY 80'S, WE WERE COMING OUT OF THE DEEP RECESSION. COMING OUT OF THE DEEP RECESSION. JOB OPPORTUNITIES WERE THIN. RECESSION. JOB OPPORTUNITIES WERE THIN. PH.D.'S IN HISTORY WERE MORE JOB OPPORTUNITIES WERE THIN. PH.D.'S IN HISTORY WERE MORE COMMON. PH.D.'S IN HISTORY WERE MORE COMMON. IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT JOB COMMON. IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT JOB MARKET. IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT JOB MARKET. SO ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE GAVE MARKET. SO ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE GAVE ME THE JOB OPPORTUNITY. SO ILLINOIS CENTRAL COLLEGE GAVE ME THE JOB OPPORTUNITY. SO I JUST GRABBED IT, AND I ME THE JOB OPPORTUNITY. SO I JUST GRABBED IT, AND I THOUGHT I AM GOING TO START SO I JUST GRABBED IT, AND I THOUGHT I AM GOING TO START HERE! I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WILL THOUGHT I AM GOING TO START HERE! I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WILL END, BUT I WILL START HERE. HERE! I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WILL END, BUT I WILL START HERE. >>I WILL GO BACK TO EARLY CAREER END, BUT I WILL START HERE. >>I WILL GO BACK TO EARLY CAREER INFLUENCES. >>I WILL GO BACK TO EARLY CAREER INFLUENCES. YOU MENTIONED YOUR FATHER. INFLUENCES. YOU MENTIONED YOUR FATHER. YOUR GRANDFATHER I UNDERSTAND YOU MENTIONED YOUR FATHER. YOUR GRANDFATHER I UNDERSTAND WAS QUITE A MATHMETICIAN AND YOUR GRANDFATHER I UNDERSTAND WAS QUITE A MATHMETICIAN AND BOOK COLLECTOR. WAS QUITE A MATHMETICIAN AND BOOK COLLECTOR. >>YES, HE WAS. BOOK COLLECTOR. >>YES, HE WAS. >>TELL ME THE STORY ABOUT -- I >>YES, HE WAS. >>TELL ME THE STORY ABOUT -- I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT YOU >>TELL ME THE STORY ABOUT -- I HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT YOU VISITING HIM AND HE ALLOWED YOU HEARD SOMETHING ABOUT YOU VISITING HIM AND HE ALLOWED YOU TO BORROW A BOOK ON ONE VISITING HIM AND HE ALLOWED YOU TO BORROW A BOOK ON ONE CONDITION WHICH WAS. TO BORROW A BOOK ON ONE CONDITION WHICH WAS. >>HE HAS DONE RESEARCH HERE. CONDITION WHICH WAS. >>HE HAS DONE RESEARCH HERE. YES, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A HIGH >>HE HAS DONE RESEARCH HERE. YES, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A HIGH SCHOOL MATHEMATICS TEACHER, YES, MY GRANDFATHER WAS A HIGH SCHOOL MATHEMATICS TEACHER, ALGEBRA, TRIGONOMETRY, CALCULUS, SCHOOL MATHEMATICS TEACHER, ALGEBRA, TRIGONOMETRY, CALCULUS, THOSE WERE THE THINGS THAT DROVE ALGEBRA, TRIGONOMETRY, CALCULUS, THOSE WERE THE THINGS THAT DROVE HIM. THOSE WERE THE THINGS THAT DROVE HIM. IN HIS SPARE TIME, HE WAS A HIM. IN HIS SPARE TIME, HE WAS A CARPENTER, A WOODWORKER. IN HIS SPARE TIME, HE WAS A CARPENTER, A WOODWORKER. HE WAS ME TICK LUS, WORKED WITH CARPENTER, A WOODWORKER. HE WAS ME TICK LUS, WORKED WITH HIS HANDS. HE WAS ME TICK LUS, WORKED WITH HIS HANDS. HE HAD A VERY HIGH EXPECTATION HIS HANDS. HE HAD A VERY HIGH EXPECTATION FOR ALL TEN OF HIS CHILDREN, AND HE HAD A VERY HIGH EXPECTATION FOR ALL TEN OF HIS CHILDREN, AND PASSED THAT ONTO ALL OF US AS FOR ALL TEN OF HIS CHILDREN, AND PASSED THAT ONTO ALL OF US AS GRANDCHILDREN. PASSED THAT ONTO ALL OF US AS GRANDCHILDREN. HE HAD THE LARGEST PERSONAL GRANDCHILDREN. HE HAD THE LARGEST PERSONAL LIBRARY I HAVE EVER SEEN. HE HAD THE LARGEST PERSONAL LIBRARY I HAVE EVER SEEN. I WOULD GO INTO THE ROOM WHICH LIBRARY I HAVE EVER SEEN. I WOULD GO INTO THE ROOM WHICH WAS IN A DOUBLE STORY HOUSE, I WOULD GO INTO THE ROOM WHICH WAS IN A DOUBLE STORY HOUSE, EXTRA BEDROOM, BUT IT WOULD HAVE WAS IN A DOUBLE STORY HOUSE, EXTRA BEDROOM, BUT IT WOULD HAVE FLOOR TO CEILING BOOKCASES, BACK EXTRA BEDROOM, BUT IT WOULD HAVE FLOOR TO CEILING BOOKCASES, BACK TO BACK, WITH AISLE. FLOOR TO CEILING BOOKCASES, BACK TO BACK, WITH AISLE. IT WAS JUST, AS A YOUNGSTER, TO BACK, WITH AISLE. IT WAS JUST, AS A YOUNGSTER, OVERWHELMING TO GO IN THERE, IT WAS JUST, AS A YOUNGSTER, OVERWHELMING TO GO IN THERE, LOOK UP INTO THE STACKS OF OVERWHELMING TO GO IN THERE, LOOK UP INTO THE STACKS OF BOOKS, BOOK AFTER BOOK AFTER LOOK UP INTO THE STACKS OF BOOKS, BOOK AFTER BOOK AFTER BOOK ON ALL KINDS OF TOPICS, BOOKS, BOOK AFTER BOOK AFTER BOOK ON ALL KINDS OF TOPICS, EVERYTHING FROM PSYCHOLOGY AND BOOK ON ALL KINDS OF TOPICS, EVERYTHING FROM PSYCHOLOGY AND HISTORY AND LITERATURE TO EVERYTHING FROM PSYCHOLOGY AND HISTORY AND LITERATURE TO MATHEMATICS. HISTORY AND LITERATURE TO MATHEMATICS. THE HIGHEST PRAISE HE COULD GIVE MATHEMATICS. THE HIGHEST PRAISE HE COULD GIVE YOU WOULD BE TO ALLOW YOU TO THE HIGHEST PRAISE HE COULD GIVE YOU WOULD BE TO ALLOW YOU TO BORROW A BOOK ON ONE CONDITION, YOU WOULD BE TO ALLOW YOU TO BORROW A BOOK ON ONE CONDITION, THAT YOU KNEW HOW TO OPEN THE BORROW A BOOK ON ONE CONDITION, THAT YOU KNEW HOW TO OPEN THE BOOK, AND NOT BREAK THE SPINE. THAT YOU KNEW HOW TO OPEN THE BOOK, AND NOT BREAK THE SPINE. ONE OF THE THINGS HE ALSO DID BOOK, AND NOT BREAK THE SPINE. ONE OF THE THINGS HE ALSO DID WAS TO REPAIR AND BIND BOOKS. ONE OF THE THINGS HE ALSO DID WAS TO REPAIR AND BIND BOOKS. SO HE WAS VERY CONSCIENTIOUS HOW WAS TO REPAIR AND BIND BOOKS. SO HE WAS VERY CONSCIENTIOUS HOW ONE HANDLED THE BOOK, HOW ONE SO HE WAS VERY CONSCIENTIOUS HOW ONE HANDLED THE BOOK, HOW ONE OPENED THE BOOK, HOW ONE TURNED ONE HANDLED THE BOOK, HOW ONE OPENED THE BOOK, HOW ONE TURNED THE PAGES OF THE BOOK AND OPENED THE BOOK, HOW ONE TURNED THE PAGES OF THE BOOK AND EXPECTED TO HAVE IT RETURNED IN THE PAGES OF THE BOOK AND EXPECTED TO HAVE IT RETURNED IN GREAT CONDITION. EXPECTED TO HAVE IT RETURNED IN GREAT CONDITION. >>WHEN IT WAS RETURN, THE GREAT CONDITION. >>WHEN IT WAS RETURN, THE PREDICATE, YOU HAD TO HAVE >>WHEN IT WAS RETURN, THE PREDICATE, YOU HAD TO HAVE A:WE,. PREDICATE, YOU HAD TO HAVE A:WE,. >>YES, YOU HAD TO TALK ABOUT IT. A:WE,. >>YES, YOU HAD TO TALK ABOUT IT. >>AND DISCUSS THE CONTENTS. >>YES, YOU HAD TO TALK ABOUT IT. >>AND DISCUSS THE CONTENTS. >>THAT'S RIGHT. >>AND DISCUSS THE CONTENTS. >>THAT'S RIGHT. >>YOU JUST READ THIS BOOK, WHAT >>THAT'S RIGHT. >>YOU JUST READ THIS BOOK, WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM THAT BOOK? >>YOU JUST READ THIS BOOK, WHAT DID YOU GLEAN FROM THAT BOOK? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN DID YOU GLEAN FROM THAT BOOK? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM READING THAT BOOK? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN AWAY FROM READING THAT BOOK? AS A YOUNG IT STER, I WAS SO AWAY FROM READING THAT BOOK? AS A YOUNG IT STER, I WAS SO ELEMENTARY IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT AS A YOUNG IT STER, I WAS SO ELEMENTARY IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT I WOULD TRY TO FIND ONE OR TWO ELEMENTARY IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT I WOULD TRY TO FIND ONE OR TWO ITEMS I FELT WOULD SATISFY HIS I WOULD TRY TO FIND ONE OR TWO ITEMS I FELT WOULD SATISFY HIS QUESTION, AND HE WASN'T MEAN ITEMS I FELT WOULD SATISFY HIS QUESTION, AND HE WASN'T MEAN SPIRITED ABOUT THIS. QUESTION, AND HE WASN'T MEAN SPIRITED ABOUT THIS. HE WAS VERY GENUINELY INTERESTED SPIRITED ABOUT THIS. HE WAS VERY GENUINELY INTERESTED IN DID I ENGAGE MY MIND AT THAT HE WAS VERY GENUINELY INTERESTED IN DID I ENGAGE MY MIND AT THAT POINT WITH THAT BOOK. IN DID I ENGAGE MY MIND AT THAT POINT WITH THAT BOOK. >>WHY THE CHANGE TO RELIGION? POINT WITH THAT BOOK. >>WHY THE CHANGE TO RELIGION? >> CHANGE FROM, I GUESS I HAVE >>WHY THE CHANGE TO RELIGION? >> CHANGE FROM, I GUESS I HAVE ALWAYS HAD SOME ABIDING INTEREST >> CHANGE FROM, I GUESS I HAVE ALWAYS HAD SOME ABIDING INTEREST FROM MY EARLY YEARS IN RELIGION. ALWAYS HAD SOME ABIDING INTEREST FROM MY EARLY YEARS IN RELIGION. PART OF MY GRANDFATHER'S FROM MY EARLY YEARS IN RELIGION. PART OF MY GRANDFATHER'S LIBRARY, IT WAS STEEPED WITH PART OF MY GRANDFATHER'S LIBRARY, IT WAS STEEPED WITH THEOLOGICAL MATERIAL BOOKS. LIBRARY, IT WAS STEEPED WITH THEOLOGICAL MATERIAL BOOKS. HE WAS VERY ECLECTIC IN HIS THEOLOGICAL MATERIAL BOOKS. HE WAS VERY ECLECTIC IN HIS UNDER STANDING OF RELIGION. HE WAS VERY ECLECTIC IN HIS UNDER STANDING OF RELIGION. THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK TO ME UNDER STANDING OF RELIGION. THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK TO ME ABOUT BUHDA AND HINDUISM, AND THE FIRST PERSON TO TALK TO ME ABOUT BUHDA AND HINDUISM, AND ISLAM, THAT THERE WAS OTHER ABOUT BUHDA AND HINDUISM, AND ISLAM, THAT THERE WAS OTHER RELIGIONS, AND CHRISTIANITY. ISLAM, THAT THERE WAS OTHER RELIGIONS, AND CHRISTIANITY. >>YOU FELL ON HARD TIMES, RELIGIONS, AND CHRISTIANITY. >>YOU FELL ON HARD TIMES, INVASIONS, ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS, A >>YOU FELL ON HARD TIMES, INVASIONS, ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS, A GREATER FOCUS ON RELIGION THAN INVASIONS, ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS, A GREATER FOCUS ON RELIGION THAN OTHERWISE. GREATER FOCUS ON RELIGION THAN OTHERWISE. >>UH-HUH. OTHERWISE. >>UH-HUH. >>ONE OF THE OBSERVATIONS IS -- >>UH-HUH. >>ONE OF THE OBSERVATIONS IS -- RELIGION DOES PROVIDE FOR >>ONE OF THE OBSERVATIONS IS -- RELIGION DOES PROVIDE FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT IN BAD TIMES. RELIGION DOES PROVIDE FOR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT IN BAD TIMES. >>YES, IT DOES. EMOTIONAL SUPPORT IN BAD TIMES. >>YES, IT DOES. ONE ROLL OF RELIGION >>YES, IT DOES. ONE ROLL OF RELIGION HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN COMFORT, ONE ROLL OF RELIGION HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN COMFORT, COMFORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN COMFORT, COMFORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DIFFICULT TIMES OR FACING COMFORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE IN DIFFICULT TIMES OR FACING TRAGEDY OR SUFFERING. DIFFICULT TIMES OR FACING TRAGEDY OR SUFFERING. THE ODYSSEY, THE THINKING ABOUT TRAGEDY OR SUFFERING. THE ODYSSEY, THE THINKING ABOUT WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD THE ODYSSEY, THE THINKING ABOUT WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE. WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE. THAT DEVELOPMENT, IT GETS BACK PEOPLE. THAT DEVELOPMENT, IT GETS BACK TO SEEKING THAT MEANINGFUL NES THAT DEVELOPMENT, IT GETS BACK TO SEEKING THAT MEANINGFUL NES IN LIFE. TO SEEKING THAT MEANINGFUL NES IN LIFE. >>THAT YOU SOUGHT AS A YOUNG IN LIFE. >>THAT YOU SOUGHT AS A YOUNG PERSON? >>THAT YOU SOUGHT AS A YOUNG PERSON? >> I DID, YES. PERSON? >> I DID, YES. >>THE MINISTER AND THE >> I DID, YES. >>THE MINISTER AND THE PRESIDENT. >>THE MINISTER AND THE PRESIDENT. WOULD YOU COMPARE AND CONTRAST PRESIDENT. WOULD YOU COMPARE AND CONTRAST YOUR ROLES AS A MINISTER VERSUS WOULD YOU COMPARE AND CONTRAST YOUR ROLES AS A MINISTER VERSUS THE PRESIDENT OF I ARE CC. YOUR ROLES AS A MINISTER VERSUS THE PRESIDENT OF I ARE CC. >>ONE COMPARATIVE POINT IN BEING THE PRESIDENT OF I ARE CC. >>ONE COMPARATIVE POINT IN BEING PASTORALLY EDUCATED AND PREPARED >>ONE COMPARATIVE POINT IN BEING PASTORALLY EDUCATED AND PREPARED AS MINISTER AND BEING THE PASTORALLY EDUCATED AND PREPARED AS MINISTER AND BEING THE PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE, ONE ARE AS MINISTER AND BEING THE PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE, ONE ARE VERY KEY PIECE OF THAT IS PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE, ONE ARE VERY KEY PIECE OF THAT IS COMMUNICATION, PUBLIC SPEAK, VERY KEY PIECE OF THAT IS COMMUNICATION, PUBLIC SPEAK, BEING ABLE TO IMPART TO GROUPS COMMUNICATION, PUBLIC SPEAK, BEING ABLE TO IMPART TO GROUPS OF PEOPLE INFORMATION OR AN BEING ABLE TO IMPART TO GROUPS OF PEOPLE INFORMATION OR AN OUTLINE OF MATERIAL. OF PEOPLE INFORMATION OR AN OUTLINE OF MATERIAL. IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL OUTLINE OF MATERIAL. IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL CARRY OVER IN MY PREPARATION IT IS A TREMENDOUSLY HELPFUL CARRY OVER IN MY PREPARATION EDUCATIONAL YOULY. CARRY OVER IN MY PREPARATION EDUCATIONAL YOULY. BUT ANOTHER PART OF THAT IS THE EDUCATIONAL YOULY. BUT ANOTHER PART OF THAT IS THE ONE-ON-ONE OPPORTUNITY. BUT ANOTHER PART OF THAT IS THE ONE-ON-ONE OPPORTUNITY. PASTORAL MINISTRY, A LARGE ONE-ON-ONE OPPORTUNITY. PASTORAL MINISTRY, A LARGE PORTION OF IT IS LISTENING AND PASTORAL MINISTRY, A LARGE PORTION OF IT IS LISTENING AND BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A PORTION OF IT IS LISTENING AND BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A PERSON IS GOING THROUGH, EMPATHY BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT A PERSON IS GOING THROUGH, EMPATHY , EM PATHETIC LISTENING, PERSON IS GOING THROUGH, EMPATHY , EM PATHETIC LISTENING, AND THAT QUALITY IS CRITICAL FOR , EM PATHETIC LISTENING, AND THAT QUALITY IS CRITICAL FOR THE SUCCESS OF A PRESIDENT. AND THAT QUALITY IS CRITICAL FOR THE SUCCESS OF A PRESIDENT. FACED EVERY DAY WITH A VARIETY THE SUCCESS OF A PRESIDENT. FACED EVERY DAY WITH A VARIETY OF THINGS THAT HAVE SURFACED AT FACED EVERY DAY WITH A VARIETY OF THINGS THAT HAVE SURFACED AT THE COLLEGE. OF THINGS THAT HAVE SURFACED AT THE COLLEGE. 2,000 EMPLOYEES. THE COLLEGE. 2,000 EMPLOYEES. THERE IS GOING TO BE THINGS 2,000 EMPLOYEES. THERE IS GOING TO BE THINGS OCCUR THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE THERE IS GOING TO BE THINGS OCCUR THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO THAT OCCUR THAT PEOPLE WANT TO HAVE SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO THAT EPISODE, THAT OCCURRENCE. SOMEONE TO LISTEN TO THAT EPISODE, THAT OCCURRENCE. THEN WORK WITH THEM TO FIGURE EPISODE, THAT OCCURRENCE. THEN WORK WITH THEM TO FIGURE OUT SOME KIND OF RECONCILIATION, THEN WORK WITH THEM TO FIGURE OUT SOME KIND OF RECONCILIATION, SOME KIND OF DIRECTION. OUT SOME KIND OF RECONCILIATION, SOME KIND OF DIRECTION. THOSE ARE TWO COMPARATIVE SOME KIND OF DIRECTION. THOSE ARE TWO COMPARATIVE ASPECTS. THOSE ARE TWO COMPARATIVE ASPECTS. ONE OF THE CONTRASTS, THOUGH, TO ASPECTS. ONE OF THE CONTRASTS, THOUGH, TO BEING PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE AND ONE OF THE CONTRASTS, THOUGH, TO BEING PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE AND BEING A PASTOR, BEING BEING PRESIDENT OF A COLLEGE AND BEING A PASTOR, BEING MINISTERIALLY PREPARED, I BEING A PASTOR, BEING MINISTERIALLY PREPARED, I BELIEVE, IS IN THE BUSINESS MINISTERIALLY PREPARED, I BELIEVE, IS IN THE BUSINESS PORTION OF WHAT A COLLEGE OR BELIEVE, IS IN THE BUSINESS PORTION OF WHAT A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY DOES TODAY. PORTION OF WHAT A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY DOES TODAY. IT IS BIG BUSINESS. UNIVERSITY DOES TODAY. IT IS BIG BUSINESS. THERE IS A TREMENDOUS ECONOMIC IT IS BIG BUSINESS. THERE IS A TREMENDOUS ECONOMIC IMPACT TO IT, NOT SO MUCH SO THERE IS A TREMENDOUS ECONOMIC IMPACT TO IT, NOT SO MUCH SO WITH THE CHURCH. IMPACT TO IT, NOT SO MUCH SO WITH THE CHURCH. IN MANY WAYS, A LOCAL PARISH MAY WITH THE CHURCH. IN MANY WAYS, A LOCAL PARISH MAY EVEN BE POOR, NOT EVEN HAVE IN MANY WAYS, A LOCAL PARISH MAY EVEN BE POOR, NOT EVEN HAVE RESOURCES. EVEN BE POOR, NOT EVEN HAVE RESOURCES. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT RESOURCES. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD THINK IS A CONTRASTING SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I WOULD THINK IS A CONTRASTING POINT. I WOULD THINK IS A CONTRASTING POINT. IT WOULD BE DEALING WITH THE POINT. IT WOULD BE DEALING WITH THE BUSINESS ASPECTS OF THE COLLEGE. IT WOULD BE DEALING WITH THE BUSINESS ASPECTS OF THE COLLEGE. >>GOVERNANCE, A LITTLE BUSINESS ASPECTS OF THE COLLEGE. >>GOVERNANCE, A LITTLE DIFFERENT? >>GOVERNANCE, A LITTLE DIFFERENT? >> UH-HUH. DIFFERENT? >> UH-HUH. WELL, THERE IS SOME SIMILARITY >> UH-HUH. WELL, THERE IS SOME SIMILARITY IN THAT THERE IS GOVERNING WELL, THERE IS SOME SIMILARITY IN THAT THERE IS GOVERNING BOARDS IN BOTH CHURCHES AND IN THAT THERE IS GOVERNING BOARDS IN BOTH CHURCHES AND COLLEGES, AND SO IT IS DEALING BOARDS IN BOTH CHURCHES AND COLLEGES, AND SO IT IS DEALING WITH A WIDE VARIETY OF COLLEGES, AND SO IT IS DEALING WITH A WIDE VARIETY OF PERSONALITIES. WITH A WIDE VARIETY OF PERSONALITIES. I AM SMILING BECAUSE I AM PERSONALITIES. I AM SMILING BECAUSE I AM REMINDED, AGAIN, OF MY I AM SMILING BECAUSE I AM REMINDED, AGAIN, OF MY UPBRINGING THAT I HAD SUCH A REMINDED, AGAIN, OF MY UPBRINGING THAT I HAD SUCH A LARGE FAMILY, AND A VARIETY OF UPBRINGING THAT I HAD SUCH A LARGE FAMILY, AND A VARIETY OF PERSONALITIES. LARGE FAMILY, AND A VARIETY OF PERSONALITIES. SO TO GET TO KNOW PEOPLE WAS PERSONALITIES. SO TO GET TO KNOW PEOPLE WAS PART OF MY VERY EARLY SO TO GET TO KNOW PEOPLE WAS PART OF MY VERY EARLY UPBRINGING, LOTS OF COUSINS AND PART OF MY VERY EARLY UPBRINGING, LOTS OF COUSINS AND NEPHEWS, AND NIECES, AND THAT UPBRINGING, LOTS OF COUSINS AND NEPHEWS, AND NIECES, AND THAT REALLY CARRIED OVER INTO MY NEPHEWS, AND NIECES, AND THAT REALLY CARRIED OVER INTO MY EARLY MINISTERIAL ROLE AND NOW REALLY CARRIED OVER INTO MY EARLY MINISTERIAL ROLE AND NOW CURRENTLY A COLLEGE PRESIDENTIAL EARLY MINISTERIAL ROLE AND NOW CURRENTLY A COLLEGE PRESIDENTIAL ROLE. CURRENTLY A COLLEGE PRESIDENTIAL ROLE. THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF ROLE. THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF PEOPLE. THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF PEOPLE. GOVERNING BOARD, SEVEN VERY PEOPLE. GOVERNING BOARD, SEVEN VERY DISTINCTIVE PEOPLE. GOVERNING BOARD, SEVEN VERY DISTINCTIVE PEOPLE. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. DISTINCTIVE PEOPLE. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. THERE IS APPOINTMENT. >>THEY ARE ELECTED. THERE IS APPOINTMENT. >>LITTLE DIFFERENT BODY OF THERE IS APPOINTMENT. >>LITTLE DIFFERENT BODY OF CONSTITUENTS THAT THE ELECTED >>LITTLE DIFFERENT BODY OF CONSTITUENTS THAT THE ELECTED PERSON VIEWS HIS OR HER ROLE A CONSTITUENTS THAT THE ELECTED PERSON VIEWS HIS OR HER ROLE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. PERSON VIEWS HIS OR HER ROLE A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. YOU SAID THE KEY WORD LITTLE DIFFERENTLY. YOU SAID THE KEY WORD "CONSTITUENT CONSTITUENT U EN YOU SAID THE KEY WORD "CONSTITUENT CONSTITUENT U EN SI" THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE AN "CONSTITUENT CONSTITUENT U EN SI" THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE AN AUDIENCE THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY SI" THEY BELIEVE THEY HAVE AN AUDIENCE THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY OUGHT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO. AUDIENCE THAT THEY BELIEVE THEY OUGHT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO. IN A CHURCH PARISH, MANY PEOPLE OUGHT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE TO. IN A CHURCH PARISH, MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY REPRESENT SOME KIND IN A CHURCH PARISH, MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY REPRESENT SOME KIND OF CONSTITUENT U EN SI, BUT BELIEVE THEY REPRESENT SOME KIND OF CONSTITUENT U EN SI, BUT THERE ARE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO OF CONSTITUENT U EN SI, BUT THERE ARE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE. THERE ARE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T AGREE. AND THE DEBATES CAN BE JUST AS DON'T AGREE. AND THE DEBATES CAN BE JUST AS FROM. AND THE DEBATES CAN BE JUST AS FROM. PEOPLE HOLD RELIGION DEAR. FROM. PEOPLE HOLD RELIGION DEAR. WHEN DEBATES OCCUR IN CHURCHES, PEOPLE HOLD RELIGION DEAR. WHEN DEBATES OCCUR IN CHURCHES, SOMETIMES THE DEBATE MOVES OVER WHEN DEBATES OCCUR IN CHURCHES, SOMETIMES THE DEBATE MOVES OVER INTO THE SPIRITUAL THEOLOGICAL SOMETIMES THE DEBATE MOVES OVER INTO THE SPIRITUAL THEOLOGICAL ARGUMENTS, RATHER THAN BRICK OR INTO THE SPIRITUAL THEOLOGICAL ARGUMENTS, RATHER THAN BRICK OR MORTAR OR THE FACILITY QUESTIONS ARGUMENTS, RATHER THAN BRICK OR MORTAR OR THE FACILITY QUESTIONS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THEM. MORTAR OR THE FACILITY QUESTIONS THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THEM. WHO IS YOUR HERO? THAT ARE IN FRONT OF THEM. WHO IS YOUR HERO? >> ABRAHAM LINCOLN IS ONE THAT WHO IS YOUR HERO? >> ABRAHAM LINCOLN IS ONE THAT COMES TO MIND. >> ABRAHAM LINCOLN IS ONE THAT COMES TO MIND. I THINK THE INSTITUTE, ALL THE COMES TO MIND. I THINK THE INSTITUTE, ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT HE FACED IN HIS I THINK THE INSTITUTE, ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT HE FACED IN HIS LIFE AND IN HIS PRESIDENCY, THAT CHALLENGES THAT HE FACED IN HIS LIFE AND IN HIS PRESIDENCY, THAT THROUGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND LIFE AND IN HIS PRESIDENCY, THAT THROUGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND NOW THROUGH ALL OF THE MATERIALS THROUGH ALL OF THOSE THINGS, AND NOW THROUGH ALL OF THE MATERIALS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT NOW THROUGH ALL OF THE MATERIALS THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT HIM, HE IS STILL UNTAINTED. THAT HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT HIM, HE IS STILL UNTAINTED. I REALLY CAN APPRECIATE THAT IN HIM, HE IS STILL UNTAINTED. I REALLY CAN APPRECIATE THAT IN THE PASSING OF TIME AND ALL THE I REALLY CAN APPRECIATE THAT IN THE PASSING OF TIME AND ALL THE SCRUTINY THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO THE PASSING OF TIME AND ALL THE SCRUTINY THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO HIS LIFE AND HIS DECISIONS, HE SCRUTINY THAT'S BEEN BROUGHT TO HIS LIFE AND HIS DECISIONS, HE STOOD THE TEST OF ALL OF THAT HIS LIFE AND HIS DECISIONS, HE STOOD THE TEST OF ALL OF THAT AND STANDS I THINK VERY PROUDLY STOOD THE TEST OF ALL OF THAT AND STANDS I THINK VERY PROUDLY IN OUR ECHELON OF HEROES, AND STANDS I THINK VERY PROUDLY IN OUR ECHELON OF HEROES, NATIONAL HEROES, INTERNATIONAL IN OUR ECHELON OF HEROES, NATIONAL HEROES, INTERNATIONAL HEROES, LINCOLN, DEFINITELY, NATIONAL HEROES, INTERNATIONAL HEROES, LINCOLN, DEFINITELY, NUMBER ONE. HEROES, LINCOLN, DEFINITELY, NUMBER ONE. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE FUTURE OF NUMBER ONE. WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION, JOHN? WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE FUTURE OF EDUCATION, JOHN? >> I THINK YOU WILL SEE MORE OF EDUCATION, JOHN? >> I THINK YOU WILL SEE MORE OF THE INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT AMONG >> I THINK YOU WILL SEE MORE OF THE INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED. THE INDEPENDENT MOVEMENT AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED. WE SEE THAT WITH CHARTER PEOPLE WHO ARE CONCERNED. WE SEE THAT WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS. WE SEE THAT WITH CHARTER SCHOOLS. VOUCHER SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN SCHOOLS. VOUCHER SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED. VOUCHER SYSTEMS HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED. BUT CHARTER SCHOOLS IN DISCUSSED. BUT CHARTER SCHOOLS IN PARTICULAR CREATE LONGER SCHOOL BUT CHARTER SCHOOLS IN PARTICULAR CREATE LONGER SCHOOL DAYS. PARTICULAR CREATE LONGER SCHOOL DAYS. LOOK AT THE SELECTION OF DAYS. LOOK AT THE SELECTION OF TEACHERS BASED UPON SOMETIMES LOOK AT THE SELECTION OF TEACHERS BASED UPON SOMETIMES EXPERTISE RATHER THAN TEACHERS BASED UPON SOMETIMES EXPERTISE RATHER THAN CERTIFICATION. EXPERTISE RATHER THAN CERTIFICATION. SO THOSE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENTS CERTIFICATION. SO THOSE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENTS THAT I THINK ARE ENLIGHTENING SO THOSE ARE SOME DEVELOPMENTS THAT I THINK ARE ENLIGHTENING AND HELPFUL. THAT I THINK ARE ENLIGHTENING AND HELPFUL. ONE OTHER PIECE TO THIS I FIND AND HELPFUL. ONE OTHER PIECE TO THIS I FIND INTERESTING IS. ONE OTHER PIECE TO THIS I FIND INTERESTING IS. COMPUL SORE RY EDUCATION AND THE INTERESTING IS. COMPUL SORE RY EDUCATION AND THE AGE BY WHICH WE SAY SOMEONE CAN COMPUL SORE RY EDUCATION AND THE AGE BY WHICH WE SAY SOMEONE CAN DROP OUT. AGE BY WHICH WE SAY SOMEONE CAN DROP OUT. DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT IS DROP OUT. DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT IS COUNTERVAILING TO EXPECT OUR DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT IS COUNTERVAILING TO EXPECT OUR SCORES TO BE HIGHER WHEN WE COUNTERVAILING TO EXPECT OUR SCORES TO BE HIGHER WHEN WE ALLOW A 16 OR 17 YEAR OLD TO SCORES TO BE HIGHER WHEN WE ALLOW A 16 OR 17 YEAR OLD TO DROP OUT WHEN WE KNOW ALL THE ALLOW A 16 OR 17 YEAR OLD TO DROP OUT WHEN WE KNOW ALL THE DATA TELLS US THAT IF A STUDENT DROP OUT WHEN WE KNOW ALL THE DATA TELLS US THAT IF A STUDENT PREVAILS, CONTINUES, THEY WILL DATA TELLS US THAT IF A STUDENT PREVAILS, CONTINUES, THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER SUCCESS IN THEIR PREVAILS, CONTINUES, THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER SUCCESS IN THEIR CAREER CHOICE AND IN LIFE? HAVE A BETTER SUCCESS IN THEIR CAREER CHOICE AND IN LIFE? BUT WE ALLOW IT. CAREER CHOICE AND IN LIFE? BUT WE ALLOW IT. WE HAVE LAWS THAT ALLOW THAT. BUT WE ALLOW IT. WE HAVE LAWS THAT ALLOW THAT. ARE THOSE LAWS BASED ON THE OLD WE HAVE LAWS THAT ALLOW THAT. ARE THOSE LAWS BASED ON THE OLD FARMING OR INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX ARE THOSE LAWS BASED ON THE OLD FARMING OR INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND NOT A 21ST CENTURY FARMING OR INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX AND NOT A 21ST CENTURY SITUATION? AND NOT A 21ST CENTURY SITUATION? SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOME OF SITUATION? SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THE LARGER ISSUES WE FACE THAT SO I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOME OF THE LARGER ISSUES WE FACE THAT ARE POLICY ISSUES FOR EDUCATION, THE LARGER ISSUES WE FACE THAT ARE POLICY ISSUES FOR EDUCATION, AND I'D LIKE THOSE TO BE ARE POLICY ISSUES FOR EDUCATION, AND I'D LIKE THOSE TO BE REEXAMINED. AND I'D LIKE THOSE TO BE REEXAMINED. I WOULD HOPE THERE WOULD BE REEXAMINED. I WOULD HOPE THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE THAT WOULD TAKE UP SOME I WOULD HOPE THERE WOULD BE PEOPLE THAT WOULD TAKE UP SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES. PEOPLE THAT WOULD TAKE UP SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES. >>. OF THOSE CHALLENGES. >>. CONTINUING EDUCATION, NEW YORK >>. CONTINUING EDUCATION, NEW YORK TIMES THE LAST SUNDAY EDITION, CONTINUING EDUCATION, NEW YORK TIMES THE LAST SUNDAY EDITION, THERE WAS A CATALOG AND HAS TIMES THE LAST SUNDAY EDITION, THERE WAS A CATALOG AND HAS WHATEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THERE WAS A CATALOG AND HAS WHATEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONLINE OR VIDEO CONFERENCING, IN WHATEVER YOU WANT TO LOOK AT ONLINE OR VIDEO CONFERENCING, IN OTHER WORDS TECHNOLOGY IS ONLINE OR VIDEO CONFERENCING, IN OTHER WORDS TECHNOLOGY IS EXPLODING. OTHER WORDS TECHNOLOGY IS EXPLODING. BUT THE THRESHOLD QUESTION, EXPLODING. BUT THE THRESHOLD QUESTION, BEGINNING OF THE QUESTION IS THE BUT THE THRESHOLD QUESTION, BEGINNING OF THE QUESTION IS THE FAMILY, IS THE SPELLING BEE, AND BEGINNING OF THE QUESTION IS THE FAMILY, IS THE SPELLING BEE, AND THE FOOT OF THE PARENTS. FAMILY, IS THE SPELLING BEE, AND THE FOOT OF THE PARENTS. WHAT INFLUENCE DOES THE PARENT THE FOOT OF THE PARENTS. WHAT INFLUENCE DOES THE PARENT HAVE ON THE CHILD? WHAT INFLUENCE DOES THE PARENT HAVE ON THE CHILD? >> I AM EXTREMELY BIASED. HAVE ON THE CHILD? >> I AM EXTREMELY BIASED. IT IS TREMENDOUSLY INFLUENTIAL. >> I AM EXTREMELY BIASED. IT IS TREMENDOUSLY INFLUENTIAL. >>THAT MAY BE FROM AGES FIVE TO IT IS TREMENDOUSLY INFLUENTIAL. >>THAT MAY BE FROM AGES FIVE TO SEVEN? >>THAT MAY BE FROM AGES FIVE TO SEVEN? >> SURE. SEVEN? >> SURE. >>FORMATIVE YEARS. >> SURE. >>FORMATIVE YEARS. >>FORMATIVE YEARS. >>FORMATIVE YEARS. >>FORMATIVE YEARS. THE EXPECTATION THAT A PARENT >>FORMATIVE YEARS. THE EXPECTATION THAT A PARENT HAS FOR THEIR CHILD BECOMES THE THE EXPECTATION THAT A PARENT HAS FOR THEIR CHILD BECOMES THE BAR THAT'S OFTEN SET FOR THAT HAS FOR THEIR CHILD BECOMES THE BAR THAT'S OFTEN SET FOR THAT CHILD. BAR THAT'S OFTEN SET FOR THAT CHILD. >>AND SOMETIMES VERY LOW. CHILD. >>AND SOMETIMES VERY LOW. >>CAN BE VERY LOW. >>AND SOMETIMES VERY LOW. >>CAN BE VERY LOW. >>JOHN, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU >>CAN BE VERY LOW. >>JOHN, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU EXPECTED TO TRAVERSE THESE >>JOHN, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU EXPECTED TO TRAVERSE THESE AREAS, BUT I CERTAINLY HAVE EXPECTED TO TRAVERSE THESE AREAS, BUT I CERTAINLY HAVE ENJOYED THESE DISCUSSIONS, AND I AREAS, BUT I CERTAINLY HAVE ENJOYED THESE DISCUSSIONS, AND I WAS HOPING WE COULD CONTINUE ENJOYED THESE DISCUSSIONS, AND I WAS HOPING WE COULD CONTINUE THIS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. WAS HOPING WE COULD CONTINUE THIS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. >>A COUPLE DAYS! (LAUGHING). THIS FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS. >>A COUPLE DAYS! (LAUGHING). >>THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. >>A COUPLE DAYS! (LAUGHING). >>THANKS FOR YOUR TIME. >>YOU ARE WELCOME.