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welcome everyone welcome to the hot preach podcast as always we'll be talking about Rainbow six siege predominately siege news siege discussions also a couple of other games that came out quite recently that I've been playing rounding things off with the Rainbow Six pro league the games that we've had over the last couple of weeks certainly for North America and the last week for EU and Latin and then ending everything on a question-and-answer session with me as always we have pretty GOP and get flanked hi how's it going guys doing good yeah I've been doing way too much over the last week it's affected my sanity as well as my voice I'm a good place right now I'm looking forward to actually hearing about that that sounds like an interesting story for sure yes let's kick things off with the news I'll bring that up on my screen right now I couldn't there we go so the main news I think for Rainbow six right now is that the test servers have gone up again we've had two sets of patch notes one from the 26 of September we'll talk about those and then there was also a new set of patch notes that released only just today so let me take you through those or at least through the gameplay changes which I think are the most important currently on the test server right now they've changed the gadgets for both pulse and Montaigne to be toggle instead of hold now I think for Montaigne I can definitely see the value in that if you have the shield up you want it generally to stay up until you're ready to get rid of it and I think there's certainly the the risk of accidentally letting go of the button just for just for a second or you're trying to type to a teammate or you're trying to press the push to talk button and you accidentally release the gadget button wherever you've got that map to maybe even on console that could be an issue so for me personally having Montaigne on toggle makes sense pulse neutral on I don't mind it being toggled but I don't think it's like an important change to make what do you guys think I think it is one of the first things I did when I started playing saige was I had to remap that button from the mouse because I think by default ease middle mouse click you know I'm not sure what it is on console but I found that really hard to move around and and hold it in so to have that option to toggle it I think is a good thing because I tend to use control so I've remapped whatever control was which I guess was prone or yeah so yeah I think that's a good option for both of those operators and long-overdue I agree that I think this is a good option I would rather see it be and maybe encrypt if I'm wrong here but that's gonna be default right and there's no mm switching it so I'd rather have a button an option in the option menu where you know I could say you know toggle it on or off and decide what I want but yeah I play a good bit of monitoring now I've always played a good bit of pulse and I do agree this is something that's important I like UPI rewrapped that button as well Brad took it from my mouse wheel to one of my side buttons on my mouse and that works pretty well but yeah ya know I think it's a good change and I think it's something that we've needed to see for a while yeah and I suppose it's a really good point that one of the things I did right at the beginning as well as get it onto a different mouse button so that's why it didn't really affect me as much as it maybe did you Pete but I can definitely see that if you've got that still on middle Mouse that that's probably quite horrendous I'll take number two and this is what this is an important change this is possibly the longest overdue update to Rainbow six ever and that is that the shield glitch is going away up until now since the beginning of time it was possible to place a field at a certain 90 degree angle in front of any window any vulnerable window and block the attackers from coming in there and it became more such an issue that for many players that's a default strategy on certain certain locations on Maps on certain objectives is to block off a certain window and really like that's not the intention what the shield was there for there was a bit of a discussion around this recently when it's it was it was I think it was either it was either changed or it was only discovered then that it's actually not illegal to use that under ESL rules so technically in pro league the shield glitch would have been legal and that became a whole discussion point because hey if it's legal in pro league then it must be a viable tactic and people obviously arguing against that and eventually then ESL clarified their position and said no this is not something we want this is an exploit it is and in pro league and now changes are being tested that will stop that and the way it works I've seen this seen this tested the way it works is now if you try to put down a shield while you're in front of the window it will actually shove you forward or backward by a couple of inches and then place the shield next to the window so that it no longer blocks the entry and the patch notes tell us that this is work in progress so what they're doing basically is they have to code this in window by window site by site map by map this is not something they can just go and edit a piece of code and that's how it works everywhere they have to actually create these non shield zones in front of all important windows that are affected so this is this is in the test server as as of right now but not actually implemented on all windows yet your thoughts guys yeah call Ross did a video on it's showing exactly how it works so if you haven't seen it basically much like what Road just said when you try to put it down in front of a window where it would prevent people coming in you can now all no longer put it there and it will kind of force it to one side and so you can't block the window I think it seems like reasonable and I've changed though I haven't had any hands-on experience with it so perhaps flanked and I think you've been on the TDS of you know I actually I actually haven't yet but I agree that this is a good change I think that's a good way to handle it the patch notes were a little confusing to me I initially whenever I read them I thought that he were still gonna be gonna put the shield there but it was still gonna give you the option to mantle and because the way it was worded so I was picturing something that was a little bit uncomfortable there with basically mantling into a space that you couldn't before because I think that's the way that it's worded that the plural shields will no longer cancel a mantel animation from a mantel option but anyway regardless I think this is great I think kind of long overdue they went a lot of different directions with this remember the test server where if you mantled on to one it would just fall down which I thought because there's two issues with the deploy whooshes the boy will shields have been the cause of many issues one that it blocks Windows two that it allows people to get into angles that aren't intended by looking out of a window or something like that so that was one of the fixes there so I guess this would fix that as well because you're not gonna be able put it close enough to a window because most of those Moses employable shield blitz angles have to do with the window putting it extra window jumping up and then having an angle on a window looking out that a lot of that have patched our table 18 months ago to remember there were places in the map you could get to by putting the shield and then vaulting and then having a friend sit somewhere beam on the ceiling or something and just give you this crazy angle but they patched out ages and ages ago so I feel like this one was specifically for the vault so the vault prevention shield thing though yeah exactly I think so exactly I suppose it could work both ways but the majority of the of the objective here is really just to stop people from blocking a window that then can no longer be used by attackers and you think about this like there's sites where that could be really useful I'm thinking maybe odd I mean you think about coastline in the kitchen you block that window you don't really need any anchors anymore you can play the delivery area you can play sunrise bar and the cool vibe stairs and you don't really have to be as at least as worried about people just jumping in anymore that is certainly going to go away from now on once they've managed to code it in for each and every window we're actually going back to something you just said flanked it you've not been on the test server Pete you haven't right mm-hmm I haven't either and that's I may be something that's worth quickly mentioning as well because there has been some discussion around this like the test server normally entices players in by introducing something new by intruder introducing a new map new operators or some new gadgets something some new change that is exciting enough that people want to go and see it but very occasionally we have these test server iterations where it's a few small technical changes and the phenomenon we're seeing right now is no one really goes to play the people who try who really want to just play it to give the the developers some data to work with they go there and is empty they can't find games so I've seen some discussion on Twitter between members of the community and the developers and a lot of people have been calling for maybe some kind of incentive to get people on especially in instances like this I have to say maybe not a bad idea yeah I like it I do I think that would be a good idea you know sometimes the TTS comes out and everyone wants to play there's new recoil on there all we're testing the new operators or a new map and it's exciting and I'm sure that they fill it up quite quickly then but I think when they're testing some of these kind of what seems like more boring or background changes that are quite important to the state of the game but for us there's nothing new or exciting there obviously it doesn't feel the TTS up so readily so I would agree if there was something that carried over from the TTS climb to the main build of the game just to encourage people to go on there and fill the service up so that they can get the data they need I think that would be a good thing even if it was just a charm or or something like that that they did specifically like they did for operation health you know something like that TTS and then you could perhaps build them up over time and you could have like a catalogue of all the different charms you got from taking part and participating in the TTS and I would say as well it should probably be after you've played say I don't know two or three hours of it not just download it go in play one game and then get it and I mean play a few hours then you get your charm so you imagine imagine um you get so creative with this I could think of a thousand different things right now but imagine like if you played in this one then you get a universal the plate will shield charm you know what I mean like because that's the major concept of this one if you play you know you can do something like that with everyone imagine a weapon camo where every patch that you went and tested for them you got that patch inscribed on that weapon camo so over time you could collect all these patch patches on this weapon camo and eventually you know they would all like run together and it would look really cool yeah there's a lot of different stuff they could do with that I think it's a great idea they get flanked weapons home that would be cool we both know I don't have that cloud be even simpler if we want to make it like really easy it could just be that okay instead of the renowned you gain in the tests over being completely wasted because you can't use it make it carry over with a multiplier make it carry over whether times two multiplier all the renowned you get while you're on the test server is going to be multiplied by two and add it onto your main account it could be something as simple as that really but here's what forgiving I play on console I have zero access to this how do I feel now give it to everyone on console for free well you know actually but that's not true okay console players correct me if I'm wrong here console players have access to the TTS for free so long as they have a PC that can run it that's what the way I used to understand it and that was based on the fact that Kouros used to ease a majority majorly a console player or the majority of his plays on console for Rainbow six but he used to join us for the TTS all the time and only recently did he buy a PC copy for Rainbow six so I would have been 100% convinced except that in the Rainbow six news this week they released an FAQ which says that you have to own the PC version as well which to me doesn't seem right but that's what the FAQ said hmm I know initially when the TGS launched initially I want to say after like the first test of the test server the second time the test server came around I believe it became available to console players because there was a big stink about that maybe honestly what about this why don't make the test server free to play for anybody anybody anything a test server who's live can hop one and play the test server even if you don't want on the game period why not could it be a good demo slash test environment and add to the player account and then maybe hey this was fun I'm gonna go try it over here yeah so just to make sure that I'm getting this right I need read this out this is from the 27th so a few days ago and one of the first questions in this FAQ on my screen right now is do I need to own the game to participate and it says yes you will need to own Rainbow six siege on PC like I said that's what that's what that's what the FAQ says but I know for a fact that kollross used to play and only had the Xbox version in an ideal world and I know it's not possible for the reasons that we've all spoken about previously but in an ideal world the TTS should be on console because obviously there are they console has its own kind of balancing issues but obviously they got the certification problem with doing that change that I'm sorry I but let's come back to that after your thought you repeat because console needs to get with the times and change that but sorry good no that's pretty much it I mean we still recently our Sony have a loud cross-platform play with fortnight after really digging their heels in about that so I just think like they're kind of set in their ways a little bit about it but I think don't they do this certification thing because they're worried about there being a patch that will basically break people's consoles that's that they want to give it the okay and the way obviously with TTS or these development type systems is that the devs need to be able to update them kind of fluidly as they go along with new patches and I think like the with the consoles they want to individually see the patches and give them the thumbs up before they deploy them I'm sure that is part of it but I know there's been I've seen several videos a couple by actually drifter he's you know rather rather large youtuber a million subs talking about how because fortnight has stayed in early access they can update their games for cheaper and without one through as many steps as a game that is not an early access because they expect beta games to need to update and fix things on the fly I believe that both Xbox and SUNY allow games that are in early access or beta to be able to hop patch and to update faster quicker and cheaper than a game that's in full release and that's just broken like think about how backwards that is you know what I mean and okay so Xbox recently announced that they're in beta testing fours natively supporting mouse and keyboard the clear everything's going cross-platform we're clearly entering an era where a PC player and a console player is a line that the divide between them is narrowing okay so if consoles want to keep up with being as developer friendly and to keep to allow the play people on console to have as good of an experience as PC they need to fix this and it's ok go through the certification process but don't make the developers pay lots of money and I don't know all the details about this don't make them first of all pay lots of money in order to update and make the experience for people who are playing on your platform better don't take forever to approve those updates either you know let's get them let's get them done let's get them through and I think that you'll see a big improvement there yeah makes sense for sure I'd say if also players can still play it on PC that would at least kind of take away a little bit of the argument of it being unfair if you could earn rewards by going on the TTS but then again I would even say that you're providing a service you're providing something that's valuable to the developers and if you get a reward for that well if you don't have access to that from console that's a shame but so be it it's I'd say having a reward in there is probably better than expecting people to come on to a test server that isn't offering nothing new nothing valuable or interesting and then just having these kind of mere mediocre or unsuccessful test server runs where you don't get as much out of it obviously an open topic but yeah let me just move through the the rest of the changes there's also been an update and this was I think initially launched with a problem and then updated again and I think also a wording problem so this is also an updated part in the patch notes glasses bullets from his marksman rifle sniper rifle whatever you want to call it they can no longer penetrate castle barricades at all so they won't make holes and they moat destroy the barricades anymore as of this this test server patch I think it's something we've kind of spoken about before because they did discuss this or mention this at the beginning of the season but as any additional thoughts on that this is the second buff to castle in this test server first of all it's a big change it makes sense I love it no complaints whatsoever but you think about it what's what was stronger the deployables shield on a window or a castle on that window deployable shield absolutely I mean yeah you could still see through that window but I can't melee it employable shield and get out of the way you know there's there's there were so many aspects so not being able to do that with an employable shield could potentially lead to an increased pick rate for castle and a little bit of a mini buff for him and then also the glass stuff is another buff let's come on let's make castles barricades fireproof maverick should have no impact on a castle barricade let's do that let's make it happen why not I think we've seen Gaborik Nelson's getting a rework anyway so though I think they're going to be completely different when the rework happens anyways though yep I and probably I suppose it makes worse sense waiting for that until we can see that but as of now yes he's getting sort of a mini buff in the meantime and then I think maybe the last pattern this is mostly important for PC players enabling and disabling the mouse scrolling inputs for weapons swap is no longer missing so up until now you couldn't really disable mouse mouse mouse wheel weapons swapping if you wanted to and maybe some people would have wanted to take that out now that is a possibility I think a good change just adding more customizability to the controls for PC players there's nothing you can argue if you still want it you still use it if you don't you can finally turn it off I've inadvertently switch weapons before and yeah so that's a good change I don't think that I will personally be changing it but I could see why some people would does that mean because what I do enough against on my mouse wheel if I scroll forwards that will always give me the primary weapon so it doesn't select between them and if I scroll backwards he'll always give me the secondary I can't keep scrolling it would just give me the secondary is that well that it doesn't mean that does it no I don't know I wish it did mean that yeah for other games I set it up like that as well I don't think you can in rainbow six in rainbow six is just cycle through I'll be on the primary I want the secondary and I'll cycle all the way back to the primary now fresh of today we've had another set of patch notes go live and this will be going on to the test server as of tomorrow I believe yes so that would be tomorrow the 3rd of October and they're basically going to change some things which will take out some exploits or bugs the invisibility glitch with which we've seen return Oregon washing machine glitch mirror glitch clash ad escalate so they are also reacting against to some glitches and exploits that have appeared since the last iteration since the last DLC release and yeah we're gonna see it in TTS first and then hopefully soon after in the main game after work sorry go home no we're gonna watch the machine glitch is that the ability to mantle onto the washing machine after you destroy the laundry basket or is that always been in the game because I I saw somebody in-game I believe it was yesterday in a place that I've never seen anybody before they weren't invisible I could clearly see them but it was like Oregon laundry room they had the B bomb right there right in the middle of that room there was washing machines right behind it and he was in between the bomb and on top of that washing machine and I was like I've never seen anybody there but I asked him in a chat and he said that if you mail a the laundry basket that it gives you a vault animation you get up there and you can go throw it on top of them now it's not that tactically strong if people are looking for it because you can shoot them from the hatch there but I wasn't looking for it and definitely caught me by surprise he got I think three or four kills there is that what people are referring to because I've never looked into this war in which I'm not even sure what it means and that sounds plausible yeah I read an explanation of it somewhere but I can't seem to see it now so yeah and I'll be quite straightforward as well I don't really want to discuss these in detail as long as they're still in the game yeah so I mean if you're gonna go in research that's up to you it was something crazier than that I thought it was something where you got like inside of a washing machine or something like that made yourself like impossible to see or something like that to be that and it may not be that it may be something completely different I mean we've seen people melting themselves into staircases and all sorts of weird things so it it wouldn't be surprising to me if something like that existed apparently you can still get into the washing machine but it just put you on a one-hour spin cycle so enjoy have you guys experienced the invisibility glitch in dang have you seen people run like lately since the is obviously that was in the game some months ago its reimagine again as these things do tend to I not me personally no but I've seen videos over the last few weeks of people seeing it and didn't it happen in one pro league game lakhs is actually my charity now and it was cloud 9 vs Mouse in the US national and there was one of them that turned invisible and they had to do a host took like 5 minutes to get the rehearsed and yeah yeah that's that's pretty bad yes I did notice tutorial videos popping up great yeah yeah yeah well as always I suppose there's an audience for it and people will take advantage what can you say except kind of a shame yeah nevertheless I think so that's going into the test server hopefully live soon moving on from there I think the other small bit of news this week well is this I think this came out yesterday or the day before and there's a bit of discussion around it it's not major major news but it's funny quite amusing so psycho which many followers of Rainbow six eSports might know he was a player who was banned for two years from competitive play or the thing they managed to pin on him was use of a macro that's what caught him I've seen people suggesting though that it wasn't just about macro it wasn't just about hitting four four four four at certain intervals I've seen people suggesting that that was linked to an aimbot so that was being toggled or other things so whatever it was it was the use of a macro that that kept pressing the number four for him that got him caught there he was banned for two years and he has as if I think a couple of days ago he has had his ban renewed for another two years so it was already one year down but now it's been reset because apparently he was caught trying to play a go for under a secondary account and well that means he was trying to circumvent his band go Falls even though they're kind of unofficial anyone can join them they are still ESL competitions so his ESL ban would have extended to those and by trying to play a go for he tried to circumvent his ban which automatically means that his his two-year ban has been renewed and it just runs as of a couple of days ago he's been quite vocal on Twitter I think I saw a long long thread there where he was saying why would I even try to play a go for what what interests have I in that he was pretending as if that wasn't the case and he was innocent and out of nowhere ESL started sending these emails saying he was banned going forward again and on the other hand I mean in the reddit thread ear BK who is one of the head judges for the pro-league he's basically coming and said before anyone starts getting the pitchforks out this is what happened he tried to bypass his ban and as per as per their rules that means an automatic reinstatement have you guys seen or heard about this at all any opinions on that yeah I've basically followed it I think pretty similar joy you summarized their BK you know who is Aeneas I'll admit I guess you could say really handles these stuff this stuff very well and he is very strict on this stuff and rightly as he should like cheating and pro league is something that will tarnish the whole scene and you have to handle it very serious and I think he does a good job in doing that I do want to make it clear here that I think they he I think this maybe there's some people who are under the impression that they caught him cheating again and I don't think that's the case so I want to say that not necessarily in his defense but I just don't want that mess for his presentation out there I think that what happened like what he said is that he's banned you can't participate in anything that has to do with ESL good force have to do with ESL he was trying to get around that they caught him and now his ban has been extent yeah I don't really know anything about this so I don't want to just force an opinion on something I don't know you'll see I know and out the first band that's you know it's a shame really because whatever you say about that first band all the macro whatever believe it was that they banned him for he's obviously a phenomenal player anyway and now he's got another two years to wait so you know it sucks yeah and that's one of the reasons I've seen most commonly cited by people supporting him fans of his twitch streams fans of his YouTube videos are saying look he's he's got this amazing talent this raw aim talent he is a great player we'd really love to see him redeem himself and I think also he's been quite vocal and this is not something I've seen directly but I've seen people say of him that he's talking a lot of trash in terms of what he would do if he was allowed to and some people have kind of then gone into the mindset of like well I'd really like to see him put his money where his mouth is so those are sort of the arguments that people are making who are in support of seeing him again and obviously on the flip side there's a lot of people who represent the opinion that well he's cheated some people say he should be banned forever for that some people say it's fair that he was banned for the time he was and if he did try to get into a go for which obviously I would say if ESL is claiming that he did they must have some information that indicates that he tried to play under a different account he's claiming it's absolutely not true I don't know I don't know I would say I'd be surprised if out of nowhere based on nothing ESL would would do this I doubt makes no sense to me so I could share the evidence with him whatever they whatever they think they have to prove 100% or beyond bounced that he was playing on a second account it depends like he would know if they have some kind of system set up to catch people trying to do that the last thing they want to do is publicly share or even with one individual who could then spread the news about how they police that because he'll obviously if he did do it thought he was safe he thought hey I'm just gonna create a secondary count no one will know that it's me I'm gonna go in under a false name and I can just play and I can get more practice in and all this and that and whatever method they used to catch him maybe they don't want that to be public knowledge maybe he got snitched on a teammate maybe maybe he bragged to someone in person and that person thinks but who knows who knows or it could be something technical it could be something in that's they yeah they can see that it's someone from his PC in his location that has created an account and tried and who knows and obviously if that's the thing then they don't want people finding a workaround they don't want people finding loopholes which as soon as they explained how they found out people will find loopholes or people will have a lot of effort into finding loopholes us a fair point so I'm under stand why they would why they would keep quiet and that's pretty much it for sort of news for Rainbow six for this week obviously we're sort of mid seasons and not a lot of new stuff going on but I think we could maybe go back and discuss clash a little bit I've just finished some work analyzing her guns in depth and I put a video outs on that and people were some people a little bit irate because I titled the video as these are two of the worst guns in the game based on the fact that apart from the RG 15 the P 10 C which is clashes pistol is actually in terms of damaged capabilities the the second worst it is really really bad and in terms of the machine pistols obviously being a burst fire only weapon the SP SMG 9 is pretty bad as well but at the same time something that I was really kind of maybe a little bit surprised to see is how balanced the guns are as well so they're both bad and I understand that because clash is not about gun fighting but at the same time this is the first time ever that we've seen an operator with a machine pistol and a pistol and they're actually it's both of them are a valid choice it's kind of more down to personal preference rather than just like every every other operator we've seen so far the machine pistol was just always the choice if you're playing EKKO here or Habana with the p229 you're doing something wrong or at least you did up until up until the recoil changes we've seen but these two weapons from the ground up were designed to be balanced designed to be almost interchangeable with the similar efficiency depending on what play style suited you so in terms of that I mean now that we've had a chance to play clash a little bit and with the knowledge that really her weapons are designed to be weaker compared to other operators what thoughts do you have on clash in general well first of all the the nerf slash fix that they've brought her way was it put her and a much better place in my opinion though the weapons which the speed was way too fast when she was released and where it is now is appropriate I think I think we're starting to see clash used in pro league and we're really only just scratching the surface as far as what we're gonna see with clash I'm seeing g2 ban clash every single match that they play that tells me one of two things here they recognize how the clash could completely wreck some of their setups or to that they have a lot of stuff that they plan on unleashing with clash down the line that they don't want to show yet clash is somebody that's gonna continue getting better and better again I think the best thing we can say is that as far as it's a high levels of class right now we're only seeing the surface scratch with her capabilities I think we're growing her weapons I'll say this clashes machine pistol was the best machine pistol in the game right now okay would you trade would you trade that if I'm smoked I would trade the SMG 11 in its current state right now for her machine pistol if I'm Havanna I would trade the bearing 9 for her machine pistol if I'm dough kabhi I would 100% trade the SMG 12 for her machine pistol fact is that if you do land both of those bullets from the bursts it is a quick kill I know as far as that on paper the DPS and stuff is outclassed by the other machine pistols in the game but when you factor that you can actually get kills at medium to long range with it and that it does actually have a good damage with both of those bullets combined I think is the best machine pistol in the game right now so the advantage really that it has over the other machine pistols is the recoil yes absolutely because of the forced to round burst I think I think that with with clashes machine pistol you can get kills at close medium and long range and that's not something you can say about the other machine pistols right now you think if someone had sort of the discipline to only click very quickly and do two or three round bursts with the normal machine pistols they could emulate that advantage okay well let's think about that with the SMG eleven let's say you can and your recoil stays manageable then you're now losing that DPS which rates the SMG 11 so high okay also now you're still have a 16 round magazine okay with with that SMG 11 so I would still give the edge to clashes machine pistol in that comparison bearing 9 okay yeah you're still gonna lose that high DPS that you knew that that was so coveted before you you do have a bigger magazine it might be a little bit of a closer competition there but I would still say it would be very hard to burst fire quick enough to where your your recoil on the bearing 9 would be comparable to clashes machine pistol and the SMG 12 is the same thing the SMU 12 does very little damage per bullet it's just that fire rate that gets it to high damage per second correct me if I'm wrong that rogue yep so I do think even if you were able to burst fire it very effectively you would be in a position where classroom machine pistol might be the better option yeah makes sense the damage of course being lower because it's suppressed by default for the the SMG 12 okay I'm sorry let me say something one day I don't I don't disagree with you titling the video that way rube because I do agree that for an operator who only has two weapons available to them Obama still has the type 89 smoke still has a shotgun and the fmg9 you know so yes I agree with what you were saying there as an operator who has choices available to them class probably has the worst weapon selections available to her and I agree with that but then she's not you know like she's not really a Fragger is she so exactly completely okay you know I'm you were just saying about we've only really scratched the surface with pro league strats and plash and all that I am and you were talking about Jeter as well I saw them selecting her on coastline a couple of weeks back and Eunice was running flash Nick didn't actually do that great and then he came off clash and I think he was playing and it and he was doing superb so maybe they're banning of her is more that they don't I mean I don't know but maybe they feel like they're not go they're not quite just yet getting the best out of her and because they're not getting the best out of her but yet she still poses that fret with what her ability is they don't want other teams may be taking that advantage so it's just easier for them to ban plan face a team that is getting the best out there because you know if you if two teams are getting the best out of an operate so then it doesn't matter if you're banner or not but if you if the results are showing that you're clearly not doing very well with her as I don't think they were on coastline then maybe that's why they keep banning her out you know straight from the beginning or maybe like you say you know fabian is just got some genius strats that he doesn't want to reveal before the finals could be beat that's a great point we thought 9 vs cloud 9 vs robe last night you know really entertaining matches you guys go back and watch one vaad watch that one that was a crazy match but we saw laxing on clash and him have a couple instances where he was in a 1v1 and it was as simple as a melee shoot the legs he's done that happened to him twice - I want to say almost two rounds in a row so yeah yeah I see we were coming from there Pete absolutely members of some of the ways of using as something I've seen popping up recently and obviously this is on YouTube which you never know how effective a technique really is when it's on YouTube because it might be that every one and one in ten tries actually works and then it all ends up in a YouTube compilation and it looks as if it's amazing but actually 90% of the time it fails but something I've seen and now two different players do is when they're switching from the shield's to the gun they will flip around 180 degrees turn their back have the shield on their back to soak up some of the bullets then spin around from there and get a kill with that it sounds ridiculous but it's it worked is that just a something that's working right now or because no one's no one's expecting it oh is that potentially actually viable I think that's what the kids call 180 these days okay first of all I don't think I haven't tried it but I don't think my sensitivity is high enough to pull that off it would it would not go smoothly for me because I would be going across my whole mousepad like this and trying to land bullets but yeah I mean I could see where that could that could throw some people off but correct me if I'm wrong that shield doesn't if you're aiming at her head that she owned her back doesn't cover her head it's like a stop set neck level I want to say mmm it's higher I think depending on depending on which angle she's looking like if you're looking horizontal looking down looking up it changes a little bit but I think if she's looking straight ahead there's maybe like an inch at the top of her head that is visible and the rest of the head is actually covered so it's I think the most exposed parts are maybe the the bottom of the legs and the head is almost completely protected I think you're right now that I think about her actually yeah you're you're right I think if you even look down a little bits then your head is completely safe I think maybe yeah yeah maybe they should maybe they should look into making all shields while they're on their back take the state that they're in when they're dead because I've tested this when you kill Clash and her shield falls on the ground it does not block bullets at that point okay it's basically just say it's just you can see it but it doesn't actually have any bullet blocking characteristics yeah so maybe they should make that to where it has that characteristic when it's on her back as well that would you know there is a strats involved with Monty Monty you know he turns his back and plants to the future people are shooting through the smoke they hit his shield there's a very small window that you can actually land bullets on Monty would that go away as well and it should that go away yeah it would but I don't think it should I think I think shields on the back of fine and working as they are on the back peace I think let's give this some time yeah that's where I would go let's see like you said is this a youtube one out of a hundred tries I got right and I'm showing it that or is this a it's very easy to pull off and it's gonna affect the balance of it yeah good question you wanted to talk a little bit about flash grenades flanked maybe tell us a little bit about that for flash pranks and this is just an idea please don't crucify me because anytime you know how these goes you guys know guys you produce something on your channel that's really you just want to drive a conversation and start people thinking about this and get some input on it and people instantly think that you're advocating for it and that's not what I'm saying but in my opinion flash grenades in this game are really really frustrating and I would like to start a conversation of should flash grenades actually be flash and stun grenade combos so here's what I'm saying you throw a flash grenade at an enemy okay and that enemy turns and looks at a wall okay the flash grenade goes off as long as it wasn't within I believe three meters they will not be affected by that flash grenade at all they turn around and have a very you know get a very easy kill on you because you think are they flash or they not I have no idea of knowing you push based upon you know hey I'm trying to flash them in our room and what if flash grenades were also stun grenades so you throw this flash grenade the enemy turns and looks at the wall they don't get affected by the flash but their movement speed would be slowed so that when they're trying to turn away from that wall and get back to a lot of site that you're getting ready to push the movement speed would be slower okay so it would it would in effect still affect them somewhat they can still see clearly look it might take them a little bit longer to get their sights back up onto that line of sight you're getting ready to push now if you throw that flash grenade and they don't turn and look at the wall they're blind and that blind and stun effect are perfectly correlated to have the same amount of time as an effect okay so while your flash and you can't see anything yes your movements people would be slowed but does it matter you're completely blind at this point I guess you could say it would matter because what if you're trying to get out of that you know you get flash so I'm gonna go through this rotation hole that I created and get to safety now I can't because I'm stunned this would be a big buff to sunrise but I think it's an interesting conversation yeah so what would that mean for an operator like Sofia meaning that okay this is my special gadget that I have that allows me that some people are now operators with flash grenades can do the same thing yeah that's what lights few people Dennis here saying in my chat yeah I mean what would it mean like for her special ability that you might have you know operators out there that just have this secondary gadget that he's I do see what you're coming from warfare and it is a mechanic in the game but by buffing it are we kind of impacting other operators here a couple of things I would say regarding Cynthia a lot of people have argued that the Sevilla has too much utility already in fact we recently saw them get rid of one of her concussions because of that the other thing that I would say is being able as a via to shoot it across a map and to use it as an approximately tool and that's pretty strong you know what I mean like I wouldn't the exhibit whoever asked that question I get their point point taken Sophia is not who I would choose to base my battle cry on I would use yang as a better example what would this do to yang so now you're telling me a flash grenade is more powerful than Ying's candelas in a lot of ways because means candelas wouldn't have that stun capability so I get where he's coming from that's a very valid point yeah for both very good points really ie I see how sometimes when a flash doesn't work it can be really frustrating and at the same time obviously yes if the if the concussion and flash had timed does it matter and I think yes it does kind of because when you're trying to run away or hide and you're blind but your sensitivity is different or your movement speed is different you're gonna you're not going to know where you're going you can't really have that control that you still have when you're blinded right now at least try to get to cover giving you a little bit of a chance so I see that as an issue and yes encroaching on operators whose main gadget would then kind of be out class because yeah or Zofia and even Ella you have the concussion but then if anyone with a flash grenade has that plus blindness they're better it just gives that additional thing and compared to young the point you've made I think is also valid only flash versus flash and concussion yeah for that reason probably encroaching on on so many other operators whose main gadget would then become kind of inferior I would say it would probably be challenging to add that functionality do you think flashbangs need to buff then or is it consistency of them working is it knowing when you flash someone you know is that the problem because sometimes it can feel as though you flash someone they seem to see you very easily because obviously they look to where you're I don't know man it's tough it might be one of those things were I'm sitting here I have a cater I'm advocating I already said that might be one of those things where if they did this you you would see it in-game and be really annoyed by it because again aren't you am i right in saying that if a flash grenade lands more than three meters of you it doesn't matter where you're looking your blot I think it's amazing yep maybe they extend that out to five meters maybe that's something they should try a test server here's what stirred this okay so bank they're defending the lockers downstairs and and that and that objective there's always that mirror that's on the wall they're looking into the site where you plant okay and then a lot of times we will thermite that wall and you try to get that plant right inside the wall I'm upstairs an open area I open the hatch and a hash drops down into a place that you could put a lot of pressure on that mirror so I through that hatch drop to flash grenades as Habana me standing on top of that hatch get flashed I'm blind I have to I have to wait before I can drop I drop mirror just kills me instantly in the killcam I see Mira just turns looks this way turns back easy kill as I dropped I was more blind than Mira even though those flash grenades were 100% closer to Mira than I then they were to me and that was good gel for that sorry I think there's a good shout for stuff like that being going in the TTS even even if it's not something they're too sure about that wanting to implement in the game they could do a bit more with the TTS with little changes like that but I think it could be frustrating affecting someone's movement speed like that wasn't especially a big fan with that and I don't think largely speaking a lot the community were a big fan of the the mechanic whereby your movement speed is slow down you know mmm and I wonder if you had if you had one of these mice whereby you can up the DPI could use press that and turn quicker you could slow movements be without affecting sensitivity though those are two different things and Ellis concussion grenades and Sophia's do affect sensitivity and movement speed what if you didn't affect sensitivity but only affected movement speed I think that would be you know closer to where it should be personally but yeah you're right but I think what you're talking about with the mouse and the DPI changed it changes your sensitivity to a random amount am I not correct in saying that I think it's fixed but lower I think it's it's just slows to slows it down okay I was under the impression that it changes it to a random range that is slower but you wouldn't be able to perfectly you know hit a button and get your dpi back up to where it would normally be every single time which kind of makes sense that's that's one solution I remember this being a discussion I never tested it myself but I saw people talking about it and I think people tested it and tried to mess with the sensitivity but what happened is that it was implemented in a way that its limits your movements me there's a hard limit so no matter what your sensitivity no matter how quickly you can normally move you can't go past a certain speed that's how I think they countered that I just brilliant my end up here what if what if the buff of the flash grenade was just that when you hold it two options one you hold it for a longer period of time and then it behaves like it currently does you can Bank it off a wall it lands on the ground makes that quick sound then explodes the other is if you pull it and throw instantly it grenades it impacts it goes off on impact as soon as it touches which would prevent somebody from hearing the sound and looking away I'm confused by that a little bit especially since holding it but when you hop when you when you don't hold it it goes off quicker but when you dinky dollars you hold them the longer it takes for them to go off to things you could just remove the impacts the impact mode that it has at the moment which is kind of nonsensical anyway and just sort of bang off of walls though if you're in a doorway you bang it off door frame it goes on the other side you know it's useful in some situation but then exchange it with a simple timer so that you can when you hold you let the spoon go and the longer you hold it eventually it'll go off like a hand grenade and you can cook it you can choose to cook it and throw it and it will go off in the air or go off immediately or you can throw it immediately and it will go off pretty quickly maybe I love that I really do the flexibility same as with grenades don't give it the same timer as grenades make it really quick anyway but you can hold it for half a second and then throw and then it will go off in the air as it comes in or something like that and you could air you could air detonate it as well in the air base and there's a skill element there you have to learn the timing of it it still gives you the flexibility of using it I really like that let's do it come on Ruby yeah there you go from any glow I think with that we can maybe move on to a next segment and talk a little bit about what we've been playing this week in flanked you've been playing a lot of siege play a completely different game and that is called solo queue in the silver and gold limbo hell and that is very basic steeps but yeah it's a different game that I've been playing and it's been very it's been a very it's been an experience let's just say that and I'm still there I'm still I'm still in that silver gold limbo in previous seasons I have I have a solo queue in an account at least one account whether it be on ps4 or PC to platinum every season and this season that is not happening and it's it's been it's been an experience man there's the level of competition and siege is is dramatically increasing their last few seasons that's one thing I've learned and I feel some of the pain of the people who say hey I'm and so her I dropped you know eight killed between eight and nine kills every game and I cannot get out of silver like that's very real the fact is when you still oq you were rolling dice and you might get a good team and you might not and if those dice don't land right for you you can do whatever you want as a player and you can like I think I think honestly I think I'm a silver player right now with like a 1.75 KD so you know that's how I can go I'm trying to win I got like I don't want anybody get the false impression I'm not trying to be in silver just like create content or relate with the silver players I'm really not trying to do that I'm trying to win and you know it's tough how many matches have you played look a bit good I think I'm down to like earning like 60 ehlo per 4 MMR per game so you start out 100 that's a good bit I mean I can look it up real quick play that throughout the season and see if can get it into gold maybe well the reason I did it it's a new account that I purchased the reason I did it is one I like this little cue whenever I stream because it allows me to focus on the chat interact with them more don't have to worry about call-outs and stuff like that - I can do this and I wanted to I wanted to have an account that I can play ranked in and not worried about having a 5 stack not worrying about my rank and just play anytime because I found myself not playing as much as I wanted to because I didn't want to play casual and I didn't have a 5 stack so I wanted to have an account where I could just get in playing ranked work 1 stuff and not worry about my rank and 3 I wanted an account that I could stream on and not have to worry about getting stream sniped how long today take you to get to rank 20 actually longer than I thought I mean several like I think I want to say about 4 streaming sessions of about 4 hours apiece so yeah right around like probably between 12 and 16 hours somewhere on there of game time solo queuing is frustrating is pretty much all I do you know solo queuing and it is because you know I'm not the greatest player but it's when should people do the daftest things and it's like really you know why are you doing that when you're not really actively community I mean there is the ingame push-to-talk but when you're not in the same team when you're not using voice comms you just you don't use that as often there is that extra step I now have to click a button to speak sometimes your teammates will never ever speak back until they've died and then they start complaining or something like that that's when they'll start speaking up is after after we've lost that's when the the comms come through so yeah it is completely different experience even if you were playing with the same team that had active voice comms I think you'd get much more out of it just by being able to make the call-outs quicker by having that information and that extra level of information just makes such a difference rather than being dependent solely on yourself completely independent from having players that you synergize with that you've practiced with that are really really good completely independently from that already the fact that you don't have that active communication is I think something is always going to make solo cueing challenging yeah you could just take it a load of Silver's team them all together put them in voice comms for a day and they would probably be Gold's that are all solo queuing and running off and doing their own thing yep my favorite thing is when I'm solo queue which is all the time is someone not talking and then they talk to give you she's hit yeah where she you know last round last round and they finally make a call and you're like what where has that been you know that's that is great I looked up my staff I played 49 ranked matches at this point and my win-loss is just below 50% I think about like 49.7% win-loss here's what I ran into I run into a lot too because of the time of day that I play like using this account during today today I played two matches before we hopped on here the first match I played two guys from EU I looked up their stats on EU he'd been won both of them have been plat two this season they're flat two and he you right now and we're diamond in the previous season and they're playing against silvers in na okay and I had talks I talked so much smack to him the whole time like I was every time I kill him I was like EU you flat two equals in a silver that's probably not fair I probably shouldn't do that because I you know I can play at the platinum range in and in well clearly I need a team in order to do that as I'm proving this season but and then the second match that I played that it was a full team of EU players I mean I looked up their stats and at least one of them was a plat three and they're playing against silvers in na and I think it has to do with the time of a day you know it's during the day you know during na and it's evening over there and but yeah I mean it it's tough man like a lot of the EU as you come over they they're they're playing at a much higher level than a silver and then your average silver na player and they're just coming over here as unranked players and making life pretty difficult on a guy who's trying to get out of silver that's I think the problem with the resetting of the rank every season because if you haven't played ranked at all if you're going into into a different region or in your own region and you're only just starting this season you start out on 2500 MMR which is the very bottom border of gold for two silver one so everyone is at that range when you start and of course if you if you are if you're a diamond player you go in and you're facing people who if if you don't start playing ranked until mid season when most players have already been playing ranked you will have the players at your level who are platinum diamond and so on they will already have risen to the top they already have high MMR you're gonna be matched against people who've already been playing who maybe have 50 60 100 matches and they are genuinely Silver Gold players and here you are as someone who isn't ranked yet but gets lumped in with them that I think is maybe more the problem than anything ryx Cuse me region related yeah that the first match that I pull it against the tui you guys both of which were plat Susan to you the one guy was unranked an na the other was silver to an na mm-hmm so that that was that's tough to swallow it really is you got two guys who are playing at plat and in previous season diamond level Andy you playing against North American Silver's who are all solo queueing like we were all we were all solo so that's that's tough to swallow it really is do you think they should just have a running rank then so if you hit plat this season your plant next season I suppose the reason they reset it is the pool is for people to come back and then to try and reach that rank again it pulls place back into the game and also if you're someone that got silver last season then it gives you something to try for with the Fresh Start you can also you go and try for gold or what have you so I guess that's why they do it the whole Rea brief so yeah I see that argument on both sides I don't know I can see benefits um yeah I think that's just it's with that dual approach they've publicly stated several times that your rank is not supposed to be a reward and it's not all it's not even based on individuals play a skill it's based on how much you win and lose which is dependent on so many things apart from skill obviously skill helps to win but like I said like I said if we get into solo queues and you're there's four other players if they don't match up you can frag out as much as you want you're still not going to win as much as you maybe should so there's that approach that publicly they're saying this is not a reward this is not a player skill and then actually though you're getting rewarded with the little charm at the end of each season and it gets reset each season I think absolutely if there was just a running matchmaking level or a running ranking you would just be playing mostly against players who are at your level the entire time you would avoid that weird phase certainly maybe even for the first month of any new season at least certain if the first week or two where I mean imagine the the reset happens and then G to come in as a five stack and they go into ranked and they ranked they're ranked right on the border of gold for silver silver one just like everyone else and here in you come as I don't know a silver gold player and you run into them because the matchmaking system has been reset and they haven't managed to rise to the top yet it's it creates with every reset with every new season it creates a period of poor matchmaking of unbalanced matchmaking replacements sorry I mean people wouldn't enjoy that they would they I want to go in them you want to go to and play with hands you could one solution might be to have like a global rank that's permanent and you're building and growing all the time and then a seasonal rank which is your for show rank maybe you could have to run concurrently but it's what they obviously use for matchmaking as well but your global one I would assume is the one that they would then use for matchmaking because that's a better representation of how good you are as a player although arguably it isn't really because it's just a representation of you know the fact that you're going into games in a squad you know with other players so perhaps that's one way they could get around it but as I said earlier I feel the reason they probably reset it is to get people to come back each season on top of the LC operators and then try to achieve the rank keeps people play him yeah I think that's the whole reason why there are charms and why the the rank is publicly visible I think the game the game itself would be better and more enjoyable if the rank wasn't visible and if there were no charms associated with it I know it's what drives a lot of people to go into rank it's a motivation for a lot of players but I think the argument could be made you'd be having better games if if that wasn't shown if you just have a matchmaking system in the background doing its thing and that was that because I think one of the side effects of having rank as a reward and ranked as a status symbol is that there is a win at all cost culture which results in cheating in boosting in smurfing fake accounts down to down to copper and then teaming up sir cheater matchmaking system which results in whatever other methods stream sniping anything people can do and get away with to try to win is currently something people will do in Rainbow six siege because it is about the result and not the competition itself for a lot of players is there an alternative to that system though because combat competition is important for people that achieve Minh it's important to keep people playing the game so I don't know if there's necessarily there's not an alternative that immediately springs to mind for me other than showing people what rank they would have to think that the reigning system where you see you get your farms and you this has to be positive for player attention Debbie and that that would be negatively affected by not showing that and not putting it on public display to a certain degree but I agree that for the time that you are playing this game it would certainly create a probably a more hospitable environment for all players involved I just don't know how long those really happy players would stick with the game so maybe a system where you have a global matchmaking system a global as in not in terms of the regions but something that is permanent and goes across the seasons and then but then having something a layer on top of that that isn't used for matchmaking that can still somehow measure achievement in the game and give a player a rank and a little badge based on that rather than the actual match main was at the moment it's not personal skill or performance it's how many times you win or lose and if I queue up with four members of g2 as an old potato I'll still get my diamond every season no bother yeah no problem at all but that doesn't mean I'm good that just means I playing with really good friends so yeah yeah basically that yeah something the little medal system each season which shows people what they've got but they may a global permanent ranking in-game but you can always you know you you'll try to build that up as well you know it'd be good if you saw that and you could try and grow that yeah certainly you're interesting I think yeah go ahead one day I wanted to mention here we don't have to talk about because I'm really excited to hear about your experience with Assassin's Creed rope but I had an interesting interaction with epi on Twitter talking about this matchmaking because again this solo queue and me being at this level was like it's opened up my eyes to a lot of things and I put on Twitter and it was I was really this joking I said something along the lines of there's more that goes into ranked matchmaking than just MMR is it experience level question mark and then I put you know asterisk this is only a conspiracy theory that I choose to look into to make myself feel better epi actually responds that who's a community manager for Rainbow six siege he responds saying if you're playing with a group it will affect it to a certain degree I'm paraphrasing here guys if you're playing with a group it will affect it to a certain degree but it is not clearance level has nothing to do with it somebody responds to that down the line here and asked him to go into more depth and he says if you're playing with a group your MMR is inflated to compensate for that okay and again I'm paraphrasing there's words but that was enlightening to me there is more to ranked matchmaking and that's confirmation there's more to ranked matchmaking than simply your MMR number so what defines a group is it two people playing together is it three is it four is it five is it adjusted if it's two it's slightly adjusted if it's five it's adjusted more right that would make sense so I mean that's opened up a whole new realm of possibilities in the way that I'm looking at who I'm playing with and against and siege if you are are you better off to play with two of your buddies and a three stack who can both hold their own then you would be to play in a five stack with two of your buddies that are good and two of your buddies that are just there to have fun because they're gonna increase your MMR and your planning it's tougher competition because you're partied up with them yet they're not going to be able to hold their own would you in effect be better off to pick up two random people who have earned their MMR to that level by solo queueing if they're still acutely now they still look you probably quite often and would you maybe have a stronger team with those randoms hard to say and I think it would probably depend on a case-by-case basis but I do think it's really interesting to see because I did remember this we talked about it I did quite a lot of research on the matchmaking system and this is not something I found mentioned anywhere that it actually takes into account with whether you're solo cueing or playing in a group and it adjusts your matchmaking based on that to try and at least help soloq us out a little bit I think that's it i think it's it's interesting to know that that's working in the background and i think it's a good thing that they're trying to compensate a little bit i'd always not always also question though how well it's working because technically if it was working perfectly if you went in and solo queued you should be having a match that for you personally is just as difficult as if you go in with a group and it's and your MMR's adjusted and you're getting tougher opponents technically if it was working perfectly you shouldn't feel a difference at all in terms of solo cueing and playing as a group because of the adjusted matchmaking and well as you led off earlier solo cueing is a very different experience so if it's there it's good and it's interesting and it's good to see that there is an effort to be made or an effort being made to keep the matchmaking system as sort of valuable as possible in terms of getting you competitive matches but I question whether it's actually working all that well I would be interested to know if this is new this season cuz I really feel like I know that I'm an emotional guy I know that I love to blame my failures on other people I recognize these weaknesses in me that's where the seasons been more difficult man it has the season has been more difficult than previous seasons and my opinion last season was already more difficult I think there is a trend in that it's becoming more and more difficult more and more competitive even at the lower levels even at the low platinum and the gold and even the silver levels I think I think just in general the playerbase of Rainbow six is maturing to the point where even the sort of middle of the pack players the gold level are still extremely good and getting better and better does it work that if you have more competition at the top the overall say the overall player base is getting better so there's more competition around the top platen and diamond does that mean that say if you were plat to last season but there's more competition there you might be plat for a next season because that okay so that does make sense then because obviously over time people will get better at the game you know in two years if people are still playing the game not only will they know Maps better than they do now they will have better aim and and so on and so forth so it kind of makes sense that the game does constantly get more difficult where all ranks because those that would have usually placed at a certain rank there's more competition at that rank because everyone's played more time and therefore that filters down through the whole entire ranking system so if there's more competition a gold one and you're usually gold one and you're struggling to get gold one then obviously you're going to drop down and you're going to see them provide more competition for the other people yeah does it make sense yeah this is there is some logic in that and can I just throw something at you Balam ID clip 1994 now I know we're not over Q and a bit but you got a little bit upset in my chat so you know I don't want to just be seem to be ignoring people that aren't agreeing with us so ID clip 1993 says most people on five stacks a lot of plaits are legit players that are good and this narrative is annoying so like I don't think anyone here was trying to put down anyone there is a genuine you know just his plan or is diamond door or anything like that but I think is largely agreed that it's easier to move up through the ranks if you're playing with people that you're communicating with are not just random people on the internet who aren't using push-to-talk or aren't communicating I mean I think that's just a generally agreed principle and if you do know personally lots of people implant who are solo queue in then all credit to them I'm not diminishing ya I'm not diminishing their achievements but I just think it's a it's generally agreed that it is easier to move up through the ranks if you're playing with your with your friends that's not to diminish anyone that is there no the opposite even because if you are so no cueing into plat getting together with a5 stack where you're getting call-outs you're getting communication all that would mean is I cannot see any scenario where someone who can get into plat solo queueing gets together with a5 stack is getting call outs on enemies pushing him can can know where to go which flank routes are clear yadi I did all that advantage that you get from good communication I can't envision a scenario where someone who gets into plat solo goes into a5 stack and does worse there's no way you're gonna go in and not do as well how would you do less well with info from your teammates topic I agree with you but we've recently learned that there is a different mass making variable involved here so let's say that that person whose sole accused plot three kids in a five stack with other plot three x' now there how much is their MMR boosted are they gonna be playing a different level of competition I doubt it's that significant to where that person is gonna struggle but there is definitely something of an adjustment period for a person who's solo cubes getting into a five stack and first of all learning to call out and second of all dealing with call-outs because when you play in a five stack in this game your headset is constantly your sound is constantly bombarded by other people talking and if you are the type of player who has a slow cure has really relied on sound horn and having all those sound cues get lead to kills a lot of times when playing with a five stack you lose a piece of that and it takes an adjustment period no doubt 99 out of 100 players will adjust to that over a period of time but there is an adjustment period to dealing with people talking in your ear constantly okay yes fair point fair points nevertheless I think I feel really confident in saying that look if you can get into plants and your solo cueing I think you could do even better you could get to eat you maybe know it well yes you would do better to get to higher ranks so you you would do even better you would win even more if you're playing with people you're communicating with playing with people that you're coordinating with like sometimes it's not just about the communication it's about picking operators and being set up for a certain strategy that then just really works rather than okay everyone kind of picks an operator they feel like running right now and maybe sometimes they'll be talking about can you please bring a Thatcher or something like that but I think it doesn't mean that playing in a team makes you a better better better player or anything like that it means that you have a better chance of winning your matches which will rank you up and I think I don't I don't quite understand why you would be offended if you can make it to that level on your own because the argument is that if you're playing with a group of people you know well you would arguably do even better and get to an even higher rank so maybe your rank as a platinum solo cure is actually depressed maybe if you were in a regular 5 snack you would actually be a plant one or even diamonds and you just don't know it because you don't you don't get that opportunity that's the argument I would make there and and that's really what I've said about that what I've discovered about the the silvers and lo golds it's very nice to like you experience a lot of those players are platinum players with the right four players around them they have the gun skill and they have the game sense being a silver and gold does not mean that you are a bad player in any way shape or form it can mean a lot of different things okay but there's plenty of players of that level that will just straight-up ruin your day if you go in there as a plat through and you play against a group of silvers and you think you're just gonna have an easy time don't be surprised if you walk away with a few bruises okay I'm just going to tell you that right now and that's based on personal experience yes absolutely oh yeah I think hopefully that clears it up no offense intended yeah absolutely yeah okay then maybe let's move on a little bit still talking about games we've been playing and I really want to take a bit of a swipe away from multiplayer first-person shooters and talk a little bit about two games I've been playing and that is a shadow of the Tomb Raider which came out a couple of weeks ago and I've been playing for a couple of weeks and also Assassin's Creed Odyssey coming out on Friday which I've been playing since yesterday I've been sort of desperately trying to dig into the game a bit so I can talk a little bit about those and give you my thoughts really on on what I think so let's start off with Tomb Raider since that's been out for a little bit instead of my experience with that I've been streaming the whole thing and I'm gonna continue streaming that game so some people in in my stream would probably have seen me experiencing that firsthand but let me sort of try and summarize what I've felt about that game to me it's basically a continuation and an improvement of the recent rebooted series that started I think in 2013 with Tomb Raider and then went through rise of the Tomb Raider and now shadow it basically takes what those games did and just does some things a lot better and some things a little better and I suppose there's also maybe some drawbacks so just let me start off with things I think the game does really well the graphics are stunning the game looks absolutely beautiful on my PC I'm running it at 1440p on the highest graphics settings and it kind of I mean it's sort of like 50 to 60 FPS which isn't stellar if you're talking about a competitive game but for a single-player story based game is perfectly fine and it just looks absolutely amazing I think something that they've done that is quite new and innovative for both for the Tomb Raider series and like these kind of adventure exploration games in general like I'm also thinking of uncharted in that in that same group something they've done is they've split the difficulty setting into two so you have a1 which is the general game difficulty in terms of mostly the combat and then you have a separate setting for the puzzle difficulty so that's cool puzzles we're used to puzzles in these kind of games both in Tomb Raider and in uncharted climbing around these ancient tombs pushing buttons levers and things start moving raising water all of that we're used to that but shadow of the Tomb Raider really doubles down on puzzles they feature much more heavily than past games have done and yeah I'm playing the game on hard which is the second most difficult setting for both combat and the puzzles and the puzzles are challenging they're actually it's not just you walk in you see the wall you climb and you push a button and that's it I think puzzles in the past have been a little bit simplistic here they are actual puzzles where you need to find clues you need to go through your journal and look at photographs and other items and find other things that you can then use to help you solve what's going on it's actually been quite a lot of fun solving those so that's definitely an improvement I think I would also say the map design is a little bit better because Tomb Raider is I would say almost a quasi open game open-world game right it's it's it pretends to be open-world but it really kind of is pretty linear one thing they've done I think quite well is they've designed these Maps even though it is still a linear game in a way that makes you feel it is open like there's a there's a bit right at the beginning of the game where you crash land in the Peruvian jungle in a plane and I remember walking out from that crash and walking into the jungle and it just felt as if I could walk off in any direction and I did that because I was walking and there seemed to be an obvious path that the game was guiding me towards and I just turned left at a 90 degree angle and walked into bushes thinking I'm going to hit an invisible wall here I'm gonna come up to a cliff or trees or something's gonna stop me and bring me back around but maybe there's something hidden here maybe there's something to collect and I just ended up walking through these bushes and the game continued which was just really weird and unsurprising so I think they've done that quite well in sort of hiding the fact it's still being a linear game even though it it pretends to be open-world so that's quite good and maybe like a minor and last positive that I thought the game has is you can dress lara up in in all kinds of outfits outfits for this game outfits for the previous two games and even going beyond that i think there's outfits for Tomb Raider 2 or you can literally walk around as this blocky character which is quite funny to see in such a sort of well-designed and beautiful game where every person every main character has had their face motion captured and it's just so expressive it's like you're almost watching an animated film in a lot of places but then you can also go back and play as one of the original outfits it's just a good fun there for sure to balance it out maybe a few negatives there's a stealth mechanic in this game which was also in the last one in that you can use your um your batman sense basically because batman was the first game i think that did that but here i think it's called survival sense assassin's creed had the same thing the colours all change and you see stuff highlighted in the previous game you had that if an enemy was highlighted in yellow it meant he was not being seen or heard by other enemies so you could stealth take down that enemy and get away with it and anyone who was marked in red was an enemy that was either in the visual direction of another person or at least close enough to them to be heard so you wouldn't be able to stealth take them down one thing i've noticed in this game is that sometimes enemies that are marked in yellow you'll go to take them down and by the time you're finished taking them down someone will still see you because they're coming closer or because the animation of the take down actually pushes you close enough to an enemy that it doesn't work and that is really annoying when you think you're doing you're doing the right thing and you're using the mechanic and it backfires on you and now you've been discovered so that's yeah it's something that surprises me because it worked in the game before and doesn't quite work the way i would have expected to maybe it's by design maybe not i don't know some other things there's Quest's in the game which is new and I guess a good thing if you call side-quests a good thing cuz yeah they tend to be mundane fetch quests find something for me you kill these people kill those animals whatever it is but they're a little bit confusing sometimes in how you can follow them do you have like a quest log but you can't really choose which quest to follow and which you can't so I've been accepting these side quests but not really able to focus on the more you focus on them individually so that's a bit confusing and could be better there's a whole bunch of resource management in the game that is also not really clarified you gather resources like animal hides and metals and stuff like that that you need to create and modify your your gear but some of it is just to sell to to vendors and it's not quite clear which is which and I think maybe last and possibly the most important part is that the pacing of the story is a little bit odd in that you find the there's like two huge artifacts that are the focus of this game and you fight those pretty early on and it then just makes you wonder where the game there's no like single goal that drives you through the story and there's these odd like overdramatic cutscenes where the game just slows down and the characters start talking about their dead parents so many times it's it's yeah it's it takes you from a fun action game into this really heavy drama that I find almost a little bit unnecessary and overbearing so there's all of that as one gush of opinion if I had to sum it up I'd still say if you like those kinds of games and if you're a fan of Tomb Raider definitely is something worth looking into I've been enjoying it despite maybe some of the smaller flaws but definitely definitely interesting to look at how many rogue paid out of ten I'd give it I give it eight so so just going back a little bit there but you said you know the game is in completely open world and you there was sort of a path for you to follow but you took a 90-degree turn and went left yeah you know you were going through the jungle what happened I mean did you reach an invisible wall what I didn't which was really you can't just keep going forever though what happen I mean maybe it's maybe it was luck maybe that was the way I was meant to go but yeah I just walked kept walking through these bushes and then a path appeared that was that was perpendicular to the path I Sh I was sure was the main path and I just ended up coming up to this this ledge and the story continued from there so maybe I just got kind of lucky because I mean when you there's a map that you can look at when you go to the map you can see that there is out of these these bowls in the map where you have an open area and you can walk around and those are connected with corridors essentially even though you're playing outside the the maps all these sort of linear corridors for the most part and then sometimes you have these ball areas where you can walk around a little bit but they're not really huge so it still is that but the way they've they've designed those those areas is to really give the illusion much better than any game I've ever seen before of actually being open-world and actually having the freedom to go I'm sure that if you try to go certain regions there'll be a sheer cliff face or there'll be a cliff cliff face up or something you can't continue in those areas but they guide the player in such a way and hide those areas in such a way that really makes you almost forget that you're playing a linear game if that makes sense you play many of the Uncharted series I played all of them apart from the last one I've had a hard time getting back in the Tomb Raider after uncharted I just I guess what I would you would you put this on par or ahead of the last uncharted you play so the way of I would always describe it as that in uncharted took the Tomb Raider idea and improved upon it just so much more but what I would say that tomb Raider's been doing with sort of the reboot certainly and maybe even even more the last two games is that they've circled bucket back around and they've actually looked at what Uncharted have been doing well and they've started incorporating that back into their game so it's kind of gone like this full circle of innovation of games and developers copying each other and I think they've done well to sort of catch up with the standards that were set by Uncharted yeah what was the last two later you tried the one before this I believe that was on ps4 and it's been what a couple years right yeah rise of the Tomb Raider right yes yes I didn't think that game was as good as the most recent Uncharted I've played and I've noticed that yeah just kind of I guess for me the Uncharted series is kind of stole the Thunder from Tomb Raider and I have a lot of nostalgia was Tomb Raider Tomb Raider was one of the first games I remember playing on the original PlayStation and just really like blew my mind it was I remember getting Tomb Raider 2 for PC the one that was in Venice I believe that was Terminator 2 or 3 and just loving that game like I've got so much nostalgia for the series so I kind of I might try it out based upon your recommendation there eight beards out of ten is I've been enjoying them I like them yeah uncharted certainly did a few things now bear in mind I didn't play Uncharted 4 which I hear was amazing like I played one two and three I haven't played the most recent one so I can't compare it to that but compared to the older ps3 error uncharted the story is possibly the the weaker point here because it is a little bit muddled because it isn't quite as focused but yeah it looks stunning the puzzles are great I think it's I think if you're into that kind of game it's still I enjoyed it let's let's say that that way I can't guarantee I can't guarantee it'll it'll turn you around or change your minds but I personally I'm having a good time with it notwithstanding the fact that it does have some weaker weaknesses which I which are listed the three bids and now we're getting a little bit close on time let me talk a little bit about Assassin's Creed as well so this is actually out today for anyone who's ordered I think the the Gold Edition and the Ultimate Edition they get early access and they can be playing today as well so if you have that you probably already had a go at it let me just give you a bit of a background it is set during the time of the Peloponnesian War I believe it's the war between Sparta and Athens in 431 BC and you play as basically a mercenary that is neutral in between the two let me compare it to Assassin's Creed origins I think I'd spoke about Assassin's Creed origins a few episodes ago and one of the things I mentioned as a downside is that origins has these RPG elements in it that were maybe not fleshed out enough like they took away from what Assassin's Creed used to be and made it more of an RPG and it it wasn't maybe quite far enough with origins this basically takes origins and takes it further into an RPG this is more of an open-world RPG than anything else it really it really is they flesh it out this the way you get your missions now is you speak to people as before but instead if you speak to the person there's a cutscene with dialogue and you go on you have dialogue trees you can choose what to say to the people and how to say it you have choices sometimes that you make during that dialogue that will influence the story one way or another and we'll even go as far as to influence the outcome of the game so the the game has 9 endings 9 different endings depending on choices you make throughout the game and even even from mission to Mission there can be missions where you make a choice that will decide the life of certain people that will then later appear again or not appear again so there's there's consequence it almost reminds me a little bit of the Bioware RPGs where you have these these consequences in there that will affect the story and also I think the the the type of upgrades you can have obviously your character still levels as it did before now you because it sets in Greece you have a ship to get around between islands so ship comeback is really back from before I think one of the things that players like the most and you can upgrade your ship you can kidnap individual people like if you see a random enemy you can knock them out instead of killing them and then offer them to join your crew and they will so you can crew your ship you can upgrade various weapons on your ship and abilities it's yeah it's it's done more your your weapons are customizable in that you can take them to a blacksmith to engrave and give them extra powers so definitely a lot of RPG stuff in there and a lot of sort of things you can find that are not as guided as you would normally think sure you have you have a journal that shows you all your quests and will show you normally where to go but there are quests where you have to speak to people and they will tell you things about that quest that you didn't know so they'll tell you you need to find a ship but that ship you as you're speaking to people you'll find out that the ship is docked in this southeastern corner of this region of that island so rather than having a quest marker it's more natural and it will force you to explore more certainly than any other Assassin's Creed game before and actually more than many RPG games in that so that's I think something quite interesting they've changed the combat a little bit compared to origins and that was I think one of the things I'd cited as a weakness of origins as well is that the combat was kind of more spammy rather than flow based rather than having the counters and blocks that you had maybe in past games it's not changed a whole lot but one thing they've done is they've taken the shield out and they've instead put in sort of a counter ability and that takes the combat a little bit back towards that kind of flow base that I mentioned that is more like Batman like the Batman games innovated so that's a good thing something that I'm maybe not quite as convinced on to balance things out a little bit is that you get to play in the entirety of Greece so the Greece the Greek mainland and all of the islands essentially all of the major islands are there as a playable region which is interesting and sounds great right you can play anywhere in Greece your your adventure will take you over the entire country and that's that's great and all but what that means is they've had to really seriously scale down the size of the country itself and I noticed this because you start out on an island called kefalonia and that's a neighboring island to Ithaca which is the island where Odysseus ruled he was the king of Ithaca in real life I've looked this up those two islands are two kilometers apart so that's an awful long way in the game it's a hundred and fifty meters so you can swim from one island to other no bother at all so they've really really shrunken down the the land size in terms of how large it would really be and yeah I suppose some kind of neutral on it it's it's nice to have all of Greece there but at the same time it's just this weird version of Greece that is only like 7.5% the actual size and I almost wonder what if they instead had focused on just a certain region keep the map the same size but now you're playing just in a certain region on the border between Athens and Sparta where a lot of the fighting takes place and you play that region rather than playing the whole of Greece I don't know I think I suppose anyone can have their own opinion on that like I said isn't it for me it's neither a positive nor and negative it's more of a neutral thing that okay I appreciate being able to get on my ship and just sail to any islands within the Greek Peninsula there or around it on the other hand yeah it's it's not real anymore it's now a tiny tiny fantasy version of Greece a few other things like there's a few bits that I think still need polishing or that aren't quite as polished we used to kill animations from from assassin's Creed in the past where when you take down the last enemy there's like this smooth amazing keel animation where you stab him and then knock him over and then chop off his head or something like that there's a sill in there but they're kind of messy now like more often than not your character will just stab and actually stab the air and then be wrestling around with a guy who's not even on your spear it's just yeah they're the two characters when it goes into one of those animations aren't married up quite properly it's a it's a cosmetic floor and it's something that isn't really a huge problem but it's something that used to work in past games and was better in past games than it is here and it's a tiny tiny thing because you only see those Q animations on the very last enemy you you kill but there you go and I've seen some instances where clothes are slightly clipping into the character so the a bit not quite right aligned again a minor point for a third-person game because you never quite see that detail anyway but it is there so there is that a few changes they've made the there's now a notoriety system so if you steal stuff from people before you could walk into any any person's house and just grab stuff and no one would say anything now that that counts as stealing and they'll actually be a notoriety that builds up and as that builds up higher there are groups of bounty hunters depending on the level you're in at the game and the how far you've progressed they'll be neutral towards you until you reach a certain notoriety and the bounty on your head is put out and then they will become enemies of yours I would start hunting you so that's kind of it's an improvement I think on the system that was in Assassin's Creed origins where you also had bounty hunters coming after you but they were just after you all the time as part of the story here it's dependent on your behavior which I find is interesting to see and there's also a war system between obviously Athens and and Sparta are going to war you start right at the beginning of this of this war of this Civil War you could call it all they're different kingdoms so maybe it's just a war and you as a neutral party will affect the different regions and and how they they play against each other and who is controlling them so that I find quite interesting and those are the major things ship combat like I said is still there but it's changed because now you're four hundred years before the birth of Christ so you'reyou're a long long time ago your ship has a sail but during combats it's actually you take down the sail and it's rowing you you use your triremes or you use the rowers of your triremes rather than being under sail which is a major shift from previous Assassin's Creed where you always under sail and you had cannons of course where now you only have archers and javelin throwers so that's changed and made it different but yeah in a good way it's interesting it's something new and fresh the skill tree has been changed a little bit in that you don't have as many passive abilities anymore as you did in origins now you can unlock more active abilities so yeah a lot of things that sort of take Assassin's Creed and push it even more towards being an RPG a story based RPG and I think certainly they've they've pulled off this RPG element better than they did in origins origins was good I liked origins and I think they've taken that and they've done it even better so yeah the bottom line for me is I don't feel it's like a fully fledged RPG yet but they've done quite well I'm enjoying it and I'm now actually struggling it's like do I do I finish Tomb Raider first cuz I'm like halfway through that or do I now continue playing origins because I've been having a blast with that the last two days there's my little monologue P are you gonna ask for am I gonna have to go on then go ahead how many beards are 1000 I you know what I've only been playing this since yesterday evening I checked last night and I managed to do three percent of the game's progress in one sitting last night I've not actually checked my progress as of today but I'm only just at the very beginning I I couldn't give it a score based on the fact that I've seen less than 10% of the game tune in next week for rogues I don't even think I can get far enough in one week to be able to it was like a sprawling sprawling game ok yeah and it's only 7% of the real size I wrote this is the king of Ithaca I swim over to Ithaca and it's this tiny little rock it's like what is this thing like how is he the king of this yeah it turns out in real life it's like 10 times bigger which is not a bad thing the map is huge the map is huge unlike the different islands are separated by open sea which you can't cross by swimming or on small boats you need your ship to be able to move and that's kind of how they lock you into the tutorial starting Island basically is you can't get away without a ship and then throughout the story you get this ship and then you go and explore the whole rest it's it's quite good is quite good and something that I haven't seen yet but I've heard and read about is that it's not also it's not pure purely history anymore like Assassin's Creed origins had this you had certain parts where someone would drug you and then you'd be fighting you'd be fighting Anubis or I don't even know you'd be fighting against huge snakes and Egyptian gods I do believe that mythology is going to play quite a significant part in Assassin's Creed Odyssey as well what are you giggling about Pete so yeah and like I said I've only just started yesterday I've tried to try to play it as much as possible to be able to talk about it today for scores I would defer you to something like Metacritic go and have a look because there's people there who've been playing the console version for over a week now and they have reviews up they've put reviews up and I say people I mean games news organizations websites and magazines so the scores are in and it's between eight and nine out of ten for the most part so this is a well received game at this stage coming out on Friday cool yes go ahead yeah that's just a brief overview I tried to be brief like I said I'm like I'm less than 10% into the game despite like putting in a good chunk of hours last night and all of today essentially so there's a lot of game there and it's it's fun really quite good shall we briefly look at how Pro League did just because of time crunch yeah my track you and I oh ok so the results of Pro League rather than us discussing them this time we'll be skipping them but you can of course go to Pro dot DL es el gaming dot-com slash Rainbow six and you'll find all the scores and the current standings there other than that any questions anything in the chat you'd like us to talk about any comments you have about anything we've been discussing so far please post your questions now address them to us in our individual chats and we'll be able to answer those Pete since you insisted on this do you have any one lined up there was one earlier and it's really like super common one but I can't find the question now to credit the guys so if this is your question just repost it really quickly so I know it was you but basically should mouse and keyboard be allowed on console and you wanted us to talk about that and I thought it's kind of interesting because we touched upon this earlier and Microsoft looking at sort of do allowing it natively so that you will be able to use mouse and keyboard on the Xbox which I think is interesting but I know there is going to be a knee-jerk reaction from console gamers that they don't want any mouse and keyboard and console and if you want to use it go ahead and do it on PC but I think if I've read it correctly what Microsoft have said is you will go into a separate queue so say for example I fight up the Xbox I plugged in a mouse and keyboard it recognizes that I've done that and I would go into a queue with only other people using a mouse and keyboard on console and so I actually think it's quite a good solution because those that do want to use two controller are only playing other people that will have a controller and as far as I can tell from what they were saying is you can't gain that system like you couldn't go into a game then unplug the keyboard and put your controller hugs a controller and put your keyboarding them you know be a bit of a sneaky get about it that that's something that they understand that people would try and do and they wouldn't allow so I think it's kind of an interesting thing and it gives freedom of people to be able to do it so I think that's good overall those that say using mouse and keyboard on console to compete against someone with a controller there is 100% an advantage there that's not to say someone who's like excellent on a controller wouldn't be able to do well but there is just you know a really obvious advantage to aiming with a mouse over over like using a controller where you know you've got to hold a stick to turn incrementally and on a mouse you can just move it you know ten inches or whatever on your mouse mat and you are aiming exactly where you want to aim and I think what people do is like they use bits of hardware to achieve that so yeah that was one of the questions let me see if I could it it was I think it was level 100 alum per there we are what was it so level 100 and pelipper was saying that he's been saying it throughout the podcast he wants to talk about mouse and keyboard on console or just our general thoughts on it so it just gave mine and also then I mentioned what you've brought up earlier about how all Microsoft are looking at natively doing it but you will queue up if you use a keyboard you are going to queue up against people with keyboard and mouse which i think is good you know so long as there isn't a way of cheating the system I don't see a problem with that you just gives people choices right did you give your thoughts there are over not yet no I've done I mean I think I would really just echo what Pete mentioned I think a mouse a mouse certainly in terms of the aim is so much more intuitive and so much quicker than holding a stick that allows you to turn like a robot it's ridiculous and okay you can play around with your sensitivity with your controllers to control stick as well to try and be it turn a little bit faster but then there's a trade-off right you can then you're suddenly you're turning so fast that you don't have any fine control anymore aiming with the control stick is that's one of the main reasons why I play shooters on PCs 1/3 in mazes why reason main reasons why I play nowadays everything on PC is because most games apart from maybe third person games most games are better to control with a mouse like you can still play a third person game with the mouse and still be ok with it although I would say like something like tomb Raider's something like assassin's creed you'd still do quite well on a controller something maybe where you're not playing competitive anyway yes but first-person games whatever shape or form they are mouse and keyboard is better it's a better experience single player and it's certainly an advantage multiplayer like yes you mentioned people can play controller and do quite well that's a fact but you think that if they had the practice with mouse and keyboard they could do even better like you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by playing yeah with a controller against mouse and keyboard and on on consoles if they can get as far as to get to a point both PlayStation and or Sony and and Microsoft with the PlayStation and the Xbox get to a point where they can separate queues and if you really want to play on your console because that's what you have and that's what you play on but at the same time you want to play with mouse and keyboard you can do so but you'll be playing against other players who are also using mouse and keyboard and that keeps everything fair for everyone I think that's that's that would be the perfect solution I love this I can't win people who use a mouse and keyboard on console to play Rainbow six teach and how they are cheaters and how they basically and that they're doing it to have an advantage and what I love about this is that once this actually comes and those people who want to play console with mouse and keyboard will be able to do so but will be playing against people who are using mouse and keyboard how many of those people are still gonna use theirs em fours to bypass this process of it being recognized and still play against people with console wait with with controllers it's going to be a loss against terms of surface so it is right now it's not gonna stop them once its native they're still gonna use theirs in for so that the the gaming system doesn't recognize that they're using mouse and keyboard they're still gonna do it because they know that it will give them a huge advantage against people playing with the controller and that's how they hit their diamond that's how they hit the levels that they have okay there might be there will be a percentage who say I just want to play with mouse and keyboard I'm buying playing as other people who are mouse and keyboard but you watch and and there's going to be no excuse anymore none whatsoever there will be not a single straw that they can grasp onto to say anything other than you're right I'm cheating and I can't wait for that career point I had a question yeah yeah yeah yeah someone mentioned what do you think of adding decay to ranks starting at platinum specifically but what do you think of adding a decay to ranks and I think what that means and this is by octagon the shape so if you if you stop playing if you're if you get to a certain rank and then don't play anymore that your rank decreases over time as you're not playing it anymore I think this is a concept that is used in competitive chess so chess is really where the elo system and the matchmaking the ranking systems started out back in the day and they eventually this wasn't something that was invented at the beginning this is something that was added eventually was that if you reach a certain level and then stop playing you can't just stay at that level forever use your your rank and your your grading starts to degrade over time is that something that should be in siege I'll let you guys go first I have an idea but eat Peter Pete can tell us what he thinks no III understand the question I I can see where this would make sense but you're going to okay so there's a guy who hits diamond he doesn't play for a month let's say his decay takes him down to I don't know how significant they're talking but let's say extreme scenario here died his diamond doesn't play for two months his decay takes him down to two gold one so now I'm a gold one player and I'm playing against a diamond is that gonna happy yeah that's what's what maybe not that extreme of a scenario but that's what could happen I don't know I don't know that what what would you fix with this what are we fixing with this yes so you've definitely hits on I think the negative aspect of that is that really people see rank as a status symbol and as a reward but what it really is supposed to be is the matchmaking it's supposed to put people against each other who are at the same competence level at the same capability level so when you punish someone and I'm doing quotations mark here marks here when you punish someone by taking away their rank for being inactive yes exactly what you might end up doing is placing them then when they come back against players who are not as skilled not as experienced and it will be to the opposing team's detriment absolutely what do you fix by it I think one thing that it could tackle for sure in Rainbow six is people who get their ranks illegitimately people who get boosted by cheetahs or by smurfing or by playing with people they don't normally play with whether it's cheated boosting or paid boosting like there are boosting services that don't use cheats they just have really really skilled players who will then team up with randoms for money and we'll play them up to a certain rank just with pure skill rather than cheating and the pure skill part that's not illegal that's not against the terms of services they're cracking down on cheated boosting but boosting for money by skilled players is actually there's there's nothing nothing that stops you from doing that right now and the thing that I think a thing that people do is they will at some point maybe at the beginning maybe in the middle of a season they will get that have themselves boosted up to a certain level and then they will never play ranked again for the rest of that season because if they go into obviously a diamond match without the person who got them there without using whatever method got them there they're gonna be crushed right they're going to lose their rank they're gonna go down and the it's humiliating and it will be a bad experience for them so what a rank decay would do is it would it would stop people being able to cheat their way whether legal or illegal cheating - a fake rank and then sit on that and and pretend that's them without having to work to maintain that rank as a positive yeah okay I mean anything else that on that topic I got I got a question here I can go with ya pizza do you think anything or can you just outline the original question have decay you meaning you know if you hit diamond you don't play for a month you come back and see that you're now plot three instead of dime though okay oh come to a question that I had is can you go over the mess that was cloud 9 vs rogue so we did we skipped over perlier this week but last night Todd night in a rube played and table 9 had to come back from 5 to 1 in order to tie it 5/5 which they ended up doing but cloud 9 should have won that match probably 6 to cloud mine through two rounds and on when they were attacking and in situations were I think they were in like two or three be ones and just didn't get the diffuser down or didn't cover the person who was planning so that allowed them to you know it was like last last ten seconds one enemy left and that enemy kills the person who's planting and like a3 b1 and a time runs out and then one other time the person who was planting got off the diffuser to try and get a kill time runs out so there were like two or three rounds there were cloud nine really through and they ended up having to come back from five to one and it ended up doing it and tying five to one but that maps could have very easily been like six to cloud nine so I mean my only thoughts what that would be if your cloud nine you walk away like geez I cannot believe we even got a plant out of that but thank God we did if your robe you're thinking what's going on guys we very easily could have just gotten stomped there and since since I guess it would be what Dreamhack that is that the Ruby's not looked very good at all so I think that row has some issues right now if they lost to Isis Jaden they've recently yeah and now they tied cloud nine after a 5-1 lead a mental a psychological aspect of it in isn't it and the fact that you play all your defense all your attacks so what map was that and where did they start you recall clubhouse and Club man attacks first hmm I interrupted you twice in the standings rogue has now tumbled from being one of the top top teams last time we checked class and whatever is there now 5th there now in 5th place out of 8 with cloud 9 obey and Noble behind them so yeah they've they've certainly struggled in the standings after the last two games it's so tight there there was since her yeah they're only 2 points behind space station who are now third so literally in one game they could take back the third spot fair enough absolutely interesting really entertaining match though probably the most entertaining match I've watched since Paris as far as you know per league best of once it's it's probably the most entertaining one I've watched and on that note called night as a team house to which is kind of cool Congrats to them and I think it's the first I don't I think they might have a house kinda but I'm not sure they all live there I'm pretty sure cloud nine right now has a team house that they all live in and I think that's kind of a first for for siege and it's certainly interesting two weeks ago the team that is currently markets that used to be Olga's I remember was it last week or the week before when they gave their interview after winning they were they they even though it's them they've used to be predominantly German players they were in a team house I think in Sweden it was a Scandinavian country so since the beginning of the second half of this season formerly August now markets have been living and playing together in a single house and when they're playing their matches they're actually sitting in the same room rather than being apart so certainly not the only one that's mental actually sorry um when you think about if if they're actually playing matches in the same room and also is anything wrong with that but if you die like you can get up and you can literally go and stand behind someone and you can be walking along spectating as you could anyway when you die right but it just makes it so much quicker to spectate and give that kind of information because one wasn't one of the allegations because we were talk about Shaco earlier and i think wasn't one allegation that that team and it was never proven as far as i'm aware but won't the an allegation they was using TeamViewer I remember hearing murmurs of that but I'm yeah air with with it that rings a bell that's actually yeah I don't know she didn't even know what the rules are about being able to see each other's monitor on the same team but don't know or how is that policed if there is a rule around that how do they how do they police that when people are living in the same house I think the big thing for me is that when they go to land they'll fill you know it's you know that there's no adjustment there whatsoever as far as how they feel when they're pro league matches versus Atlanta and that's that's gonna be a big thing for them then being able to boot camp without having to have an additional travel time you know boot camp right at home and just you know not have to do anything special for that I think that's a big advantage so it's a good thing for siege teams are now starting to do you think we'll see just more and more and more teams starting to do that move together his pens on it Pearlie keeps growing I mean the prize pools are great but I mean we really need to see some viewership growth in per league man like I don't know what the org I'm not an owner I don't know what they're saying but I mean last night I was watching that the highly entertaining match that I'm referring to and there wasn't even a bunch of rehearsed last night there wasn't like a bunch of issues there was 8,000 people watching that so at what point I guess as long as the prize pools are big enough you can keep drawing big big words but at some point you're gonna need to draw more than eight people to your pro league contests in order to to justify orgs spending money on teen houses I were talking about that ya know they could do more to promote it when my opinion in in game and rogue said to me will they do sometimes from ok on the banner or what-have-you and I've seen it since then yeah imagine if people could shoot in inkay absolutely like you didn't even know it was going on and it just says continuum play in the continuum eg playing you know rogue or whoever and it's like oh you know like I'm waiting for some friends to come along and it just Tunes you in and it puts the twitch page up it's totally doable and God did that I in black ops 3 there was a player we're building right brain into PlayStation I reckon I would add to 0 on the end of some of these fewer ships they get in at the Med solutely and introduced how many people to Pro League very good points and maybe we'll see that in future but we're running out of time so thanks a lot everyone for joining in hope you enjoyed that and see you again next time


Performance Index Rating leaders (since the 1993–94 season)

  • The Greek Basket League counts official stats leaders by stats totals, and not by per game averages. It also counts the total stats for both regular season and playoffs combined. The league first held a playoffs round in the 1986–87 season.

This list includes all of the leaders in Performance Index Rating (PIR) of each season of the Greek Basket League, starting with the 1993–94 season.


Player (X) Name of the player and the number of times they had led the league in PIR at that point (if more than one).
dagger Indicates multiple PIR leaders in the same season.
Season Regular Season PIR Leader
(Regular Season Only)
Team Full Season PIR Leader
(Regular Season & Playoffs)
1993–94† United States Henry Turner Panionios United States Roy Tarpley Olympiacos
1994–95 United States Walter Berry Iraklis United States Walter Berry Iraklis
1995–96† United States Mitchell Wiggins Sporting Croatia Stojko Vranković Panathinaikos
1996–97† Cuba Andrés Guibert Sporting United States Anthony Bonner PAOK
1997–98 Croatia Dino Rađa Panathinaikos Croatia Dino Rađa Panathinaikos
1998–99† United States Erik Meek Maroussi Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Dejan Bodiroga Panathinaikos
1999–00 United States James Forrest Irakleio Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Dejan Bodiroga (2×) Panathinaikos
2000–01 Croatia Dino Rađa (2×) Olympiacos Croatia Dino Rađa (2×) Olympiacos
2001–02 United States Buck Johnson Dafni United States Alphonso Ford Olympiacos
2002–03 United States Ben Handlogten Makedonikos Republic of Macedonia Kenyon Jones Maroussi
2003–04 Greece Nestoras Kommatos Aris Greece Dimitris Diamantidis Iraklis
2004–05 United States Tyrone Grant Olympia Larissa United States Travis Watson Panionios
2005–06 Greece Loukas Mavrokefalidis PAOK Republic of Macedonia Ryan Stack Aris
2006–07 United States Andre Hutson Panionios United States Andre Hutson Panionios
2007–08 Republic of Macedonia Jeremiah Massey Aris Republic of Macedonia Jeremiah Massey Aris
2008–09 United States Anthony Grundy Panellinios Greece Ioannis Bourousis Olympiacos
2009–10 United States Josh Childress Olympiacos Greece Ian Vougioukas Panellinios
2010–11 Bulgaria Cedric Simmons Kavala Greece Ioannis Bourousis (2×) Olympiacos
2011–12 United States Dionte Christmas Rethymno Greece Georgios Printezis Olympiacos
2012–13 United States Kevin Palmer KOAD United States Brent Petway Rethymno
2013–14 United States Chris Evans Trikala Aries United States D. J. Cooper PAOK
2014–15 Bulgaria Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris
2015–16 United States Okaro White Aris United States Okaro White Aris
2016–17 United States Chris Singleton Panathinaikos United States Chris Singleton Panathinaikos
  • In the 2014–15 and 2015–16 seasons, the Greek Basket League's regular season PIR leader was considered to be an unofficial statistical "MVP award", that was based solely on this statistic. This is not to be confused with the official Greek Basket League MVP award, which is an award that is based on a voting process, and that is awarded at the end of each season's playoffs.
Season Regular Season PIR Leader Team
2014–15 Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris
2015–16 United States Okaro White Aris

Top Scorers (since the 1963–64 season)

Nikos Galis, the 11× Greek League scoring leader.
Nikos Galis, the 11× Greek League scoring leader.
  • The Greek Basket League counts official stats leaders by stats totals, and not by per game averages. It also counts the total stats for both regular season and playoffs combined. The league first held a playoffs round in the 1986–87 season.

This list includes all of the top scorers of each season of the Greek Basket League, since the league first formed the A National Category, starting with the 1963–64 season.


Player (X) Name of the player and the number of times they had led the league in scoring at that point (if more than one).
dagger Indicates multiple Top Scorers in the same season.
Season Regular Season Top Scorer
(Regular Season Only)
Team Full Season Top Scorer
(Regular Season & Playoffs)
Between the 1963–64 and 1985–86 seasons, the league only had a regular season, so the regular season and full season leaders were the same.
1963–64 Greece Georgios Kolokithas Sporting Greece Georgios Kolokithas Sporting
1964–65 Greece Georgios Amerikanos AEK Greece Georgios Amerikanos AEK
1965–66 Greece Georgios Kolokithas (2×) Panathinaikos Greece Georgios Kolokithas Panathinaikos
1966–67 Greece Georgios Kolokithas (3×) Panathinaikos Greece Georgios Kolokithas Panathinaikos
1967–68 Greece Georgios Amerikanos (2×) AEK Greece Georgios Amerikanos AEK
1968–69 Greece Takis Maglos Pagrati Greece Takis Maglos Pagrati
1969–70 Greece Vassilis Goumas Panellinios Greece Vassilis Goumas Panellinios
1970–71 Greece Paraschos Tsantalis Panellinios Greece Paraschos Tsantalis Panellinios
1971–72 Greece Aristeidis Moumoglou Iraklis Greece Aristeidis Moumoglou Iraklis
1972–73 Greece Kostas Diamantopoulos Sporting Greece Kostas Diamantopoulos Sporting
1973–74 Greece Vassilis Goumas (2×) Panellinios Greece Vassilis Goumas Panellinios
1974–75 Greece Vassilis Goumas (3×) Panellinios Greece Vassilis Goumas Panellinios
1975–76 Greece Charis Papageorgiou Aris Greece Charis Papageorgiou Aris
1976–77 Greece Vassilis Goumas (4×) Panellinios Greece Vassilis Goumas Panellinios
1977–78 Greece Pavlos Stamelos Sporting Greece Pavlos Stamelos Sporting
1978–79 Greece Charis Papageorgiou (2×) Aris Greece Charis Papageorgiou Aris
1979–80 Greece Panagiotis Giannakis Ionikos Nikaias Greece Panagiotis Giannakis Ionikos Nikaias
1980–81 Greece Nikos Galis Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1981–82 Greece Nikos Galis (2×) Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1982–83 Greece Nikos Galis (3×) Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1983–84 Greece Nikos Galis (4×) Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1984–85 Greece Nikos Galis (5×) Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1985–86 Greece Nikos Galis (6×) Aris Greece Nikos Galis Aris
Since the 1986–87 season, the league has both a regular season and playoffs, so the regular season and full season leaders can be different.
1986–87 Greece Nikos Galis (7×) Aris
1987–88 Greece Nikos Galis (8×) Aris
1988–89 Greece Nikos Galis (9×) Aris
1989–90 Greece Nikos Galis (10x) Aris
1990–91 Greece Nikos Galis (11×) Aris
1991–92 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Žarko Paspalj Olympiacos
Starting with the 1992–93 season, the league became fully professional.
1992–93 United States Richard Rellford Dafni
1993–94† United States Mitchell Wiggins Milon United States Henry Turner Panionios
1994–95 United States Walter Berry Iraklis United States Walter Berry Iraklis
1995–96 United States Mitchell Wiggins (2×) Sporting United States Mitchell Wiggins Sporting
1996–97 United States Alphonso Ford Papagou United States Alphonso Ford Papagou
1997–98 United States Tony Dawson Apollon Patras United States Tony Dawson Apollon Patras
1998–99† United States Alphonso Ford (2×) Sporting Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Dejan Bodiroga Panathinaikos
1999–00 United States Alphonso Ford (3×) Peristeri United States Alphonso Ford Peristeri
2000–01 United States Alphonso Ford (4×) Peristeri United States Alphonso Ford Peristeri
2001–02 Greece Nikos Chatzivrettas Iraklis Greece Nikos Chatzivrettas Iraklis
2002–03 Greece Georgios Diamantopoulos Panionios Greece Georgios Diamantopoulos Panionios
2003–04 Greece Nestoras Kommatos Aris Greece Savvas Iliadis Iraklis
2004–05 Greece Nikos Oikonomou Panionios Greece Nikos Oikonomou Panionios
2005–06 Croatia Damir Mulaomerović Panellinios Bulgaria Roderick Blakney Maroussi
2006–07 Bulgaria Kee Kee Clark Egaleo United States Kennedy Winston Panionios
2007–08 United States Anthony Grundy Panellinios United States Anthony Grundy Panellinios
2008–09 United States Anthony Grundy (2×) Panellinios Bulgaria Kee Kee Clark (2×) Aris
2009–10 United States Josh Childress Olympiacos United States Josh Childress Olympiacos
2010–11 Guyana Rawle Marshall PAOK Guyana Rawle Marshall PAOK
2011–12 United States Dionte Christmas Rethymno United States Dionte Christmas Rethymno
2012–13 Greece Nikos Pappas Panionios Greece Nikos Pappas Panionios
2013–14 United States Errick McCollum Panionios United States Errick McCollum Panionios
2014–15 Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris
2015–16 Greece Loukas Mavrokefalidis AEK Athens United States Jerel McNeal Aris
2016–17 United States Will Cummings Aris United States Will Cummings Aris

Rebounding leaders (since the 1986–87 season)

  • The Greek Basket League counts official stats leaders by stats totals, and not by per game averages. It also counts the total stats for both regular season and playoffs combined. The league first held a playoffs round in the 1986–87 season.

This list includes all of the top rebounders of each season of the Greek Basket League, since the league first formed the A1 National Category, starting with the 1986–87 season.


Player (X) Name of the player and the number of times they had led the league in rebounding at that point (if more than one).
dagger Indicates multiple Top Rebounders in the same season.
Season Regular Season Top Rebounder
(Regular Season Only)
Team Full Season Top Rebounder
(Regular Season & Playoffs)
1986–87 Greece Panagiotis Fasoulas PAOK
1987–88 Greece David Stergakos Panathinaikos
1988–89 United States Mark Landsberger Panionios
1989–90 United States Earl Harrison Pagrati
1990–91 United States Earl Harrison (2×) Pagrati
1991–92 United States Antonio Davis Panathinaikos
Starting with the 1992–93 season, the league became fully professional.
1992–93 United States Roy Tarpley Aris
1993–94† United States Rod Sellers Apollon Patras Croatia Stojko Vranković Panathinaikos
1994–95 United States Walter Berry Iraklis United States Walter Berry Iraklis
1995–96† Puerto Rico José Ortiz Irakleio Croatia Stojko Vranković (2×) Panathinaikos
1996–97† Egypt Samir Gouda VAO United States Anthony Bonner PAOK
1997–98 Croatia Dino Rađja Panathinaikos Croatia Dino Rađja Panathinaikos
1998–99† United States Erik Meek Maroussi Croatia Dino Rađja (2×) Panathinaikos
1999–00 Cuba Andrés Guibert Near East United States James Forrest Irakleio
2000–01 Croatia Dino Rađja (3×) Olympiacos Croatia Dino Rađja Olympiacos
2001–02 United States Kirk King Near East Republic of Ireland Pat Burke Maroussi
2002–03 United States Ben Handlogten Makedonikos United States Ben Handlogten Makedonikos
2003–04 United States Travis Watson Panionios Greece Lazaros Papadopoulos Iraklis
2004–05 United States Travis Watson (2×) Panionios United States Travis Watson Panionios
2005–06 Republic of Macedonia Jeremiah Massey Gymnastikos S. Larissas Greece Loukas Mavrokefalidis PAOK
2006–07 United States Andre Hutson Panionios United States Andre Hutson Panionios
2007–08 United States K'zell Wesson AEK Greece Ioannis Bourousis Olympiacos
2008–09 United States Torin Francis AEL 1964 United States Spencer Nelson Aris
2009–10 United States Chris Massie Olympia Larissa Greece Ian Vougioukas Panellinios
2010–11 Bulgaria Cedric Simmons Kavala Bulgaria Cedric Simmons Kavala
2011–12 Australia Aron Baynes Ikaros Australia Aron Baynes Ikaros
2012–13 United States Kevin Palmer KAOD Greece Lazaros Papadopoulos (2×) &
Greece Vlado Janković
2013–14 United States Kenny Gabriel Rethymno United States Kenny Gabriel Rethymno
2014–15 Senegal Mouhammad Faye Rethymno Greece Sasha Vezenkov Aris
2015–16 United States Dustin Hogue Nea Kifissia United States Okaro White Aris
2016–17 United States Keith Clanton PAOK United States Keith Clanton PAOK

Assists leaders (since the 1988–89 season)

Theo Papaloukas, #4 in white and red
Theo Papaloukas, #4 in white and red
Nick Calathes, #33 in white and green
Nick Calathes, #33 in white and green
  • The Greek Basket League counts official stats leaders by stats totals, and not by per game averages. It also counts the total stats for both regular season and playoffs combined. The league first held a playoffs round in the 1986–87 season.

This list includes all of the assists leaders of each season of the Greek Basket League, since the league first formed the A1 National Category, starting with the 1988–89 season.


Player (X) Name of the player and the number of times they had led the league in rebounding at that point (if more than one).
dagger Indicates multiple Top Assisters in the same season.
Season Regular Season Top Assister
(Regular Season Only)
Team Full Season Top Assister
(Regular Season & Playoffs)
1988–89 Greece Panagiotis Giannakis Aris
1989–90 Greece John Korfas PAOK
1990–91 Greece Nikos Galis Aris
1991–92 Greece Nikos Galis (2×) Aris
Starting with the 1992–93 season, the league became fully professional.
1992–93 Greece Nikos Galis (3×) Panathinaikos
1993–94† Greece Stavros Elliniadis Pagrati Greece Nikos Galis (4×) Panathinaikos
1994–95 Greece Lefteris Kakiousis Iraklis Greece Lefteris Kakiousis Iraklis
1995–96 United States Byron Dinkins Panionios United States Byron Dinkins Panionios
1996–97 Greece Nikos Vetoulas Apollon Patras Greece Nikos Vetoulas Apollon Patras
1997–98 Greece Nikos Vetoulas (2×) Apollon Patras Greece Nikos Vetoulas Apollon Patras
1998–99 United States Frankie King PAOK United States Frankie King PAOK
1999–00 United States Byron Dinkins (2×) Iraklis Federal Republic of Yugoslavia Dejan Bodiroga Panathinaikos
2000–01 Greece Theo Papaloukas Panionios Greece Theo Papaloukas Panionios
2001–02 Bulgaria Roderick Blakney Iraklis Greece Theo Papaloukas (2×) Olympiacos
2002–03 Greece Nikos Vetoulas (3×) Ionikos NF Greece Nikos Vetoulas Ionikos NF
2003–04 Croatia Damir Mulaomerović PAOK Croatia Damir Mulaomerović PAOK
2004–05 Croatia Damir Mulaomerović (2×) PAOK Greece Vassilis Spanoulis Maroussi
2005–06 Croatia Damir Mulaomerović (3×) Panellinios Greece Dimitris Diamantidis Panathinaikos
2006–07 Greece Dimitris Diamantidis (2×) Panathinaikos Greece Dimitris Diamantidis Panathinaikos
2007–08 Greece Vassilis Spanoulis (2×) Panathinaikos Greece Vassilis Spanoulis Panathinaikos
2008–09 Greece Theo Papaloukas (3×) Olympiacos Greece Theo Papaloukas Olympiacos
2009–10 United States Jamon Gordon Maroussi Greece Dimitris Diamantidis (3×) &
United States Jamon Gordon
Panathinaikos &
2010–11 United States Jared Jordan Kolossos Greece Dimitris Diamantidis (4×) Panathinaikos
2011–12 Greece Vassilis Spanoulis (3×) Olympiacos Greece Vassilis Xanthopoulos Panionios
2012–13 Greece Vassilis Spanoulis (4×) Olympiacos Greece Vassilis Spanoulis Olympiacos
2013–14 United States D. J. Cooper PAOK United States D. J. Cooper PAOK
2014–15 Greece Vassilis Spanoulis (5×) Olympiacos Greece Dimitris Diamantidis (5×) Panathinaikos
2015–16 Greece Nick Calathes Panathinaikos Greece Nick Calathes Panathinaikos
2016–17 Greece Nick Calathes (2×) Panathinaikos Greece Nick Calathes Panathinaikos


External links

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