Abdul Majid al-Qa′ud

Transcription

>> CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC WWW.CAPTIONASSOCIATES.COM. CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC WWW.CAPTIONASSOCIATES.COM. >> ś WWW.CAPTIONASSOCIATES.COM. >> ś >> ś THEY SHAPE, ENLIVEN, AND >> ś >> ś THEY SHAPE, ENLIVEN, AND ILLUMINATE OUR WORLD. >> ś THEY SHAPE, ENLIVEN, AND ILLUMINATE OUR WORLD. AND SOMETIMES, WORLDS BEYOND. ILLUMINATE OUR WORLD. AND SOMETIMES, WORLDS BEYOND. >> THEY ARE FAMOUS FOR MORE AND SOMETIMES, WORLDS BEYOND. >> THEY ARE FAMOUS FOR MORE THAN 15 MINUTES. >> THEY ARE FAMOUS FOR MORE THAN 15 MINUTES. WE KNOW THEIR NAMES AND FACES THAN 15 MINUTES. WE KNOW THEIR NAMES AND FACES MARVEL AT THEIR WE KNOW THEIR NAMES AND FACES MARVEL AT THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS. MARVEL AT THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS. >> ś ACCOMPLISHMENTS. >> ś >> WONDER WHERE THEY MIGHT BE >> ś >> WONDER WHERE THEY MIGHT BE >> >> WONDER WHERE THEY MIGHT BE >> >> ś >> >> ś >> ś AND YET, THERE IS A >> ś >> ś AND YET, THERE IS A DISTANCE BETWEEN US. >> ś AND YET, THERE IS A DISTANCE BETWEEN US. WE KNOW THEM ONLY FROM LIGHT DISTANCE BETWEEN US. WE KNOW THEM ONLY FROM LIGHT AND SOUND. WE KNOW THEM ONLY FROM LIGHT AND SOUND. AS PIXELS ON A SCREEN. AND SOUND. AS PIXELS ON A SCREEN. INK, ON A PRINTED PAGE. AS PIXELS ON A SCREEN. INK, ON A PRINTED PAGE. WAVES FROM A SPEAKER. INK, ON A PRINTED PAGE. WAVES FROM A SPEAKER. >> UNTIL TONIGHT. WAVES FROM A SPEAKER. >> UNTIL TONIGHT. AND OTHERS LIKE IT. >> UNTIL TONIGHT. AND OTHERS LIKE IT. TONIGHT, WE SHARE THE SAME AND OTHERS LIKE IT. TONIGHT, WE SHARE THE SAME ROOM WITH SOMEONE KNOWN ONLY TONIGHT, WE SHARE THE SAME ROOM WITH SOMEONE KNOWN ONLY FROM A DISTANCE. ROOM WITH SOMEONE KNOWN ONLY FROM A DISTANCE. FEEL THE HUMANITY WE HAVE IN FROM A DISTANCE. FEEL THE HUMANITY WE HAVE IN COMMON. FEEL THE HUMANITY WE HAVE IN COMMON. AND COME TO KNOW OURSELVES COMMON. AND COME TO KNOW OURSELVES AND OUR WORLD, EVEN MORE. AND COME TO KNOW OURSELVES AND OUR WORLD, EVEN MORE. AT THE RICHMOND FORUM. AND OUR WORLD, EVEN MORE. AT THE RICHMOND FORUM. >> ś AT THE RICHMOND FORUM. >> ś >> ś TONIGHT, THREE >> ś >> ś TONIGHT, THREE PERSPECTIVES ON THE NATURE >> ś TONIGHT, THREE PERSPECTIVES ON THE NATURE AND IMAGE OF THE WORLD'S PERSPECTIVES ON THE NATURE AND IMAGE OF THE WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST RELIGION, ONE AND IMAGE OF THE WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST RELIGION, ONE VOCAL CRITIC, ONE FORMER SECOND LARGEST RELIGION, ONE VOCAL CRITIC, ONE FORMER EXTREMIST, ONE RESPECTED VOCAL CRITIC, ONE FORMER EXTREMIST, ONE RESPECTED CLERIC, AND ONE RECURRING EXTREMIST, ONE RESPECTED CLERIC, AND ONE RECURRING QUESTION. CLERIC, AND ONE RECURRING QUESTION. ISLAM. QUESTION. ISLAM. A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? ISLAM. A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? OR PEACE? A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? OR PEACE? >> WELCOME. OR PEACE? >> WELCOME. >> >> WELCOME. >> >> [APPLAUSE] >> >> [APPLAUSE] >> GOOD EVENING I'M JON >> [APPLAUSE] >> GOOD EVENING I'M JON DONVAN. >> GOOD EVENING I'M JON DONVAN. IT IS ONE OF THE TIME HONORED DONVAN. IT IS ONE OF THE TIME HONORED ROLES OF GOOD ETIQUETTE THAT IT IS ONE OF THE TIME HONORED ROLES OF GOOD ETIQUETTE THAT IN POLITE COMPANY YOU DO IN ROLES OF GOOD ETIQUETTE THAT IN POLITE COMPANY YOU DO IN THE DISCUSS POLITICS OR IN POLITE COMPANY YOU DO IN THE DISCUSS POLITICS OR RELIGION. THE DISCUSS POLITICS OR RELIGION. >> [LAUGHTER] RELIGION. >> [LAUGHTER] >> OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO >> [LAUGHTER] >> OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO BE HITTING ONE OF THOSE >> OBVIOUSLY WE'RE GOING TO BE HITTING ONE OF THOSE WORDS, RELIGION, TONIGHT. BE HITTING ONE OF THOSE WORDS, RELIGION, TONIGHT. COME TO THINK OF IT, WE MIGHT WORDS, RELIGION, TONIGHT. COME TO THINK OF IT, WE MIGHT GET INTO POLITICS AS WELL. COME TO THINK OF IT, WE MIGHT GET INTO POLITICS AS WELL. BUT IT IS THE THIRD WORD THAT GET INTO POLITICS AS WELL. BUT IT IS THE THIRD WORD THAT I HOPE WE ALL END UP LIVING BUT IT IS THE THIRD WORD THAT I HOPE WE ALL END UP LIVING UP TO HERE, POLITE, BECAUSE I HOPE WE ALL END UP LIVING UP TO HERE, POLITE, BECAUSE WE START OUT KNOWING THAT IT UP TO HERE, POLITE, BECAUSE WE START OUT KNOWING THAT IT IS A SENSITIVE THING TO BE WE START OUT KNOWING THAT IT IS A SENSITIVE THING TO BE EXPLORING AND ALSO WEIGHING IS A SENSITIVE THING TO BE EXPLORING AND ALSO WEIGHING THE PEACEFULNESS OF SOMEONE EXPLORING AND ALSO WEIGHING THE PEACEFULNESS OF SOMEONE ELSE'S CLOSELY-HELD RELIGIOUS THE PEACEFULNESS OF SOMEONE ELSE'S CLOSELY-HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. ELSE'S CLOSELY-HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. EVEN WHEN THE CHALLENGE MADE BELIEFS. EVEN WHEN THE CHALLENGE MADE TO THOSE CLAIMS CAN ALSO BE EVEN WHEN THE CHALLENGE MADE TO THOSE CLAIMS CAN ALSO BE MADE IN GOOD FAITH. TO THOSE CLAIMS CAN ALSO BE MADE IN GOOD FAITH. SO WE JUST WANT TO SAY AT THE MADE IN GOOD FAITH. SO WE JUST WANT TO SAY AT THE START OF THIS, THAT ALL FOUR SO WE JUST WANT TO SAY AT THE START OF THIS, THAT ALL FOUR OF US ON THIS STAGE ARE START OF THIS, THAT ALL FOUR OF US ON THIS STAGE ARE COMMITTED TO KEEPING THIS OF US ON THIS STAGE ARE COMMITTED TO KEEPING THIS CONVERSATION CIVIL AND COMMITTED TO KEEPING THIS CONVERSATION CIVIL AND APPROPRIATE AND FAIR MINDED CONVERSATION CIVIL AND APPROPRIATE AND FAIR MINDED AND POLITE. APPROPRIATE AND FAIR MINDED AND POLITE. BECAUSE THAT IS HOW WE HOPE AND POLITE. BECAUSE THAT IS HOW WE HOPE TO SHED LIGHT ON THE BECAUSE THAT IS HOW WE HOPE TO SHED LIGHT ON THE QUESTION. TO SHED LIGHT ON THE QUESTION. >> ALL THREE -- QUESTION. >> ALL THREE -- >> [APPLAUSE] >> ALL THREE -- >> [APPLAUSE] >> ALL THREE OF OUR PANELISTS >> [APPLAUSE] >> ALL THREE OF OUR PANELISTS WILL TAKE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES >> ALL THREE OF OUR PANELISTS WILL TAKE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES EACH IN TURN TO ANSWER THE WILL TAKE ABOUT FIVE MINUTES EACH IN TURN TO ANSWER THE OPENING QUESTION, THE EACH IN TURN TO ANSWER THE OPENING QUESTION, THE QUESTION BEFORE US, WHETHER OPENING QUESTION, THE QUESTION BEFORE US, WHETHER ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF QUESTION BEFORE US, WHETHER ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR OF PEACE. ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR OF PEACE. THEY WILL GO IN TURN, AND VIOLENCE OR OF PEACE. THEY WILL GO IN TURN, AND THEY WILL EACH COME TO THIS THEY WILL GO IN TURN, AND THEY WILL EACH COME TO THIS LECTERN, ONE AT A TIME, AND THEY WILL EACH COME TO THIS LECTERN, ONE AT A TIME, AND WE WILL BEGIN FIRST WITH LECTERN, ONE AT A TIME, AND WE WILL BEGIN FIRST WITH AAYAN HIRSI ALI, BORN AND WE WILL BEGIN FIRST WITH AAYAN HIRSI ALI, BORN AND PHASED A MUSLIM. AAYAN HIRSI ALI, BORN AND PHASED A MUSLIM. AS AN ADULT SHE WALKED AWAY PHASED A MUSLIM. AS AN ADULT SHE WALKED AWAY FROM THAT FAITH AND ALL AS AN ADULT SHE WALKED AWAY FROM THAT FAITH AND ALL FAITHS, DECLARING HERSELF AN FROM THAT FAITH AND ALL FAITHS, DECLARING HERSELF AN ATHEIST, OFFENDED IN FAITHS, DECLARING HERSELF AN ATHEIST, OFFENDED IN PARTICULAR WITH THE TREATMENT ATHEIST, OFFENDED IN PARTICULAR WITH THE TREATMENT SHE HAS SEEN OF GIRLS AND PARTICULAR WITH THE TREATMENT SHE HAS SEEN OF GIRLS AND WOMEN IN SOME MUSLIM SHE HAS SEEN OF GIRLS AND WOMEN IN SOME MUSLIM COUNTRIES. WOMEN IN SOME MUSLIM COUNTRIES. SHE HAS BECOME AS OUTSPOKEN A COUNTRIES. SHE HAS BECOME AS OUTSPOKEN A CRITIC OF ISLAM AS THERE IS SHE HAS BECOME AS OUTSPOKEN A CRITIC OF ISLAM AS THERE IS ANYWHERE. CRITIC OF ISLAM AS THERE IS ANYWHERE. DEATH THREATS STALK HER AS A ANYWHERE. DEATH THREATS STALK HER AS A RESULT OF THAT. DEATH THREATS STALK HER AS A RESULT OF THAT. WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY NOW ON RESULT OF THAT. WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY NOW ON THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY NOW ON THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS ISLAM IS RELIGION OF VIOLENCE THE QUESTION BEFORE US IS ISLAM IS RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE, LET'S HEAR HER ISLAM IS RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE, LET'S HEAR HER ANSWER. OR PEACE, LET'S HEAR HER ANSWER. WELCOME TO THE LECTERN. ANSWER. WELCOME TO THE LECTERN. >> [APPLAUSE] WELCOME TO THE LECTERN. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOHN. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOHN. MY FATHER, THE MAN >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, JOHN. MY FATHER, THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR MY EDUCATION, MY FATHER, THE MAN RESPONSIBLE FOR MY EDUCATION, TAUGHT ME THAT ISLAM, QUIETLY RESPONSIBLE FOR MY EDUCATION, TAUGHT ME THAT ISLAM, QUIETLY UNDERSTOOD, IS A RELIGION OF TAUGHT ME THAT ISLAM, QUIETLY UNDERSTOOD, IS A RELIGION OF PHILOSOPHY OF PEACE. UNDERSTOOD, IS A RELIGION OF PHILOSOPHY OF PEACE. IN FACT, HE SAID THAT FOR ANY PHILOSOPHY OF PEACE. IN FACT, HE SAID THAT FOR ANY SOCIETY TO BE PEACEFUL AND IN FACT, HE SAID THAT FOR ANY SOCIETY TO BE PEACEFUL AND PROSPEROUS, IT HAD TO SOCIETY TO BE PEACEFUL AND PROSPEROUS, IT HAD TO INSTITUTE THE RULE OF GOD OR PROSPEROUS, IT HAD TO INSTITUTE THE RULE OF GOD OR SHARIA. INSTITUTE THE RULE OF GOD OR SHARIA. I CAME TO BE WITH MY FATHER. SHARIA. I CAME TO BE WITH MY FATHER. IT WAS A GRADUAL PROCESS WHEN I CAME TO BE WITH MY FATHER. IT WAS A GRADUAL PROCESS WHEN I ENTERED AND LIVED IN IT WAS A GRADUAL PROCESS WHEN I ENTERED AND LIVED IN SOCIETIES SUCH AS THE I ENTERED AND LIVED IN SOCIETIES SUCH AS THE NETHERLANDS AND THE UNITED SOCIETIES SUCH AS THE NETHERLANDS AND THE UNITED STATES THAT APPLIED MAN-MADE NETHERLANDS AND THE UNITED STATES THAT APPLIED MAN-MADE CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS. STATES THAT APPLIED MAN-MADE CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS. BOTH COUNTRIES ARE PEACEFUL CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS. BOTH COUNTRIES ARE PEACEFUL AND PROSPEROUS. BOTH COUNTRIES ARE PEACEFUL AND PROSPEROUS. I NOW DISAGREED WITH MY AND PROSPEROUS. I NOW DISAGREED WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM WAS A I NOW DISAGREED WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM WAS A RELIGION OF PEACE. FATHER THAT ISLAM WAS A RELIGION OF PEACE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF RELIGION OF PEACE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY THAT IS DEPLORED WHEN I LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY THAT IS DEPLORED TONIGHT, HERE. SECURITY THAT IS DEPLORED TONIGHT, HERE. >> [APPLAUSE] TONIGHT, HERE. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY >> [APPLAUSE] >> THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY THAT IS DEPLOYED FOR THE >> THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY THAT IS DEPLOYED FOR THE RICHMOND MARATHON. THAT IS DEPLOYED FOR THE RICHMOND MARATHON. SIX MONTHS AGO, THE BOSTON RICHMOND MARATHON. SIX MONTHS AGO, THE BOSTON MARATHON WAS BOMBED BY TWO SIX MONTHS AGO, THE BOSTON MARATHON WAS BOMBED BY TWO BROTHERS WHO INVOKED THE MARATHON WAS BOMBED BY TWO BROTHERS WHO INVOKED THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND THE BROTHERS WHO INVOKED THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND THE FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM. FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND THE FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER WHEN I LOOK AT THE WANTON I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER WHEN I LOOK AT THE WANTON KILLING OF THE WESTGATE MALL WHEN I LOOK AT THE WANTON KILLING OF THE WESTGATE MALL IN NAIROBI, FIVE SOMALI MEN, KILLING OF THE WESTGATE MALL IN NAIROBI, FIVE SOMALI MEN, INVOKING ALLAH AND MOHAMMED IN NAIROBI, FIVE SOMALI MEN, INVOKING ALLAH AND MOHAMMED TO JUSTIFY THEIR HOR ID ACT. INVOKING ALLAH AND MOHAMMED TO JUSTIFY THEIR HOR ID ACT. KENYA IS THE MOST HOSPITABLE TO JUSTIFY THEIR HOR ID ACT. KENYA IS THE MOST HOSPITABLE COUNTRY TO SOMALIS FLEEING KENYA IS THE MOST HOSPITABLE COUNTRY TO SOMALIS FLEEING THEIR OWN COUNTRY, SO IT COUNTRY TO SOMALIS FLEEING THEIR OWN COUNTRY, SO IT DISTRESSES ME EVEN MORE. THEIR OWN COUNTRY, SO IT DISTRESSES ME EVEN MORE. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER DISTRESSES ME EVEN MORE. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER WHEN I LOOK AT THE REPORT I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER WHEN I LOOK AT THE REPORT THIS WEEK OF 30 MEN AND WOMEN WHEN I LOOK AT THE REPORT THIS WEEK OF 30 MEN AND WOMEN WORSHIPING IN IRAQ WHO ARE THIS WEEK OF 30 MEN AND WOMEN WORSHIPING IN IRAQ WHO ARE KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER, WORSHIPING IN IRAQ WHO ARE KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER, INVOKING THE VERY SAME GOD KILLED BY A SUICIDE BOMBER, INVOKING THE VERY SAME GOD AND THE VERY SAME PROPHET INVOKING THE VERY SAME GOD AND THE VERY SAME PROPHET THAT THEY INVOKE. AND THE VERY SAME PROPHET THAT THEY INVOKE. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER, THAT THEY INVOKE. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER, WHEN HE SAYS THAT ISLAM IS A I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER, WHEN HE SAYS THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE. WHEN HE SAYS THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE 120,000 RELIGION OF PEACE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE 120,000 DEAD IN SYRIA. WHEN I LOOK AT THE 120,000 DEAD IN SYRIA. SYRIA IS NOW A STATE OF A DEAD IN SYRIA. SYRIA IS NOW A STATE OF A PROXY WAR BETWEEN ISLAM'S TWO SYRIA IS NOW A STATE OF A PROXY WAR BETWEEN ISLAM'S TWO MOST IMPORTANT AND MOST PROXY WAR BETWEEN ISLAM'S TWO MOST IMPORTANT AND MOST INFLUENTIAL NATIONS, THE MOST IMPORTANT AND MOST INFLUENTIAL NATIONS, THE SUNNI KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA INFLUENTIAL NATIONS, THE SUNNI KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA AND THE SHIITE ISLAMIC SUNNI KINGDOM OF SAUDI ARABIA AND THE SHIITE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN. AND THE SHIITE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER REPUBLIC OF IRAN. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE WHEN I READ ABOUT THE THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE WHEN I READ ABOUT THE ALMOST DAILY REPORTS OF THE PEACE WHEN I READ ABOUT THE ALMOST DAILY REPORTS OF THE DESTRUCTION OF CHURCHES, THE ALMOST DAILY REPORTS OF THE DESTRUCTION OF CHURCHES, THE PILLAGING OF CHRISTIAN DESTRUCTION OF CHURCHES, THE PILLAGING OF CHRISTIAN PROPERTY, THE RAPE OF PILLAGING OF CHRISTIAN PROPERTY, THE RAPE OF CHRISTIAN WOMEN, THE TERRIBLE PROPERTY, THE RAPE OF CHRISTIAN WOMEN, THE TERRIBLE EXODUS OF CHRISTIANS AND CHRISTIAN WOMEN, THE TERRIBLE EXODUS OF CHRISTIANS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS MINORITIES EXODUS OF CHRISTIANS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS MINORITIES FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES. OTHER RELIGIOUS MINORITIES FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES. ALL THIS IS DONE BY MEN WHO FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES. ALL THIS IS DONE BY MEN WHO INVOKE THE FOUNDING FATHER ALL THIS IS DONE BY MEN WHO INVOKE THE FOUNDING FATHER AND FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF INVOKE THE FOUNDING FATHER AND FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF ISLAM. AND FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF ISLAM. I DISAGREE WITH MY DEAR, ISLAM. I DISAGREE WITH MY DEAR, BELOVED FATHER, WHEN I READ I DISAGREE WITH MY DEAR, BELOVED FATHER, WHEN I READ ABOUT THE TONIGHT AGE GIRL -- BELOVED FATHER, WHEN I READ ABOUT THE TONIGHT AGE GIRL -- THE TEENAGE GIRL IN PAKISTAN ABOUT THE TONIGHT AGE GIRL -- THE TEENAGE GIRL IN PAKISTAN WHO IS SHOT, POINT BLANK IN THE TEENAGE GIRL IN PAKISTAN WHO IS SHOT, POINT BLANK IN THE HEAD, BY A MAN INVOKING WHO IS SHOT, POINT BLANK IN THE HEAD, BY A MAN INVOKING ALLAH AND MOHAMMED BECAUSE THE HEAD, BY A MAN INVOKING ALLAH AND MOHAMMED BECAUSE SHE WANTED EDUCATION. ALLAH AND MOHAMMED BECAUSE SHE WANTED EDUCATION. IN THE NAME OF ALLAH AND SHE WANTED EDUCATION. IN THE NAME OF ALLAH AND MOHAMMED, WOMEN ARE FORBIDDEN IN THE NAME OF ALLAH AND MOHAMMED, WOMEN ARE FORBIDDEN TO DRIVE, THEY ARE FORBIDDEN MOHAMMED, WOMEN ARE FORBIDDEN TO DRIVE, THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO OWN THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE TO DRIVE, THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO OWN THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. TO OWN THEIR OWN REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS. THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO DO RIGHTS. THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO DO ANYTHING UNLESS THEY HAVE THEY ARE FORBIDDEN TO DO ANYTHING UNLESS THEY HAVE PERMISSION FROM A MALE ANYTHING UNLESS THEY HAVE PERMISSION FROM A MALE GUARDIAN. PERMISSION FROM A MALE GUARDIAN. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER GUARDIAN. I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF I DISAGREE WITH MY FATHER THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE, WHEN I READ THESE THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE, WHEN I READ THESE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND I PEACE, WHEN I READ THESE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND I STUDY THE HISTORY AND THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS AND I STUDY THE HISTORY AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET STUDY THE HISTORY AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED. EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED. IN THERE, I FIND AN MOHAMMED. IN THERE, I FIND AN INSISTENCE OF WAR AND IN THERE, I FIND AN INSISTENCE OF WAR AND INTOLERANCE TOWARDS INSISTENCE OF WAR AND INTOLERANCE TOWARDS INFEDERALELS, THE HYPOCRITES, INTOLERANCE TOWARDS INFEDERALELS, THE HYPOCRITES, THOSE WHO ASSOCIATE GOD WITH INFEDERALELS, THE HYPOCRITES, THOSE WHO ASSOCIATE GOD WITH OTHERS, HOMOSEXUALS, WOMEN, THOSE WHO ASSOCIATE GOD WITH OTHERS, HOMOSEXUALS, WOMEN, AND SO ON. OTHERS, HOMOSEXUALS, WOMEN, AND SO ON. WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS NOT THE AND SO ON. WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS NOT THE DENIAL OF THESE OVERWHELMING WHAT ISLAM MEANS IS NOT THE DENIAL OF THESE OVERWHELMING AND COMPELLING FACTS. DENIAL OF THESE OVERWHELMING AND COMPELLING FACTS. ISLAM NEEDS A REFORMATION. AND COMPELLING FACTS. ISLAM NEEDS A REFORMATION. MUSLIM LEADERS WHO ARE ISLAM NEEDS A REFORMATION. MUSLIM LEADERS WHO ARE SERIOUS ABOUT ACHIEVING TRUE MUSLIM LEADERS WHO ARE SERIOUS ABOUT ACHIEVING TRUE AND ENDURING PEACE NEED TO SERIOUS ABOUT ACHIEVING TRUE AND ENDURING PEACE NEED TO REVISE THE CURAN AND HADITH AND ENDURING PEACE NEED TO REVISE THE CURAN AND HADITH SO THAT THERE IS A REVISE THE CURAN AND HADITH SO THAT THERE IS A CONSISTENCY BETWEEN WHAT THE SO THAT THERE IS A CONSISTENCY BETWEEN WHAT THE PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS WANT AND CONSISTENCY BETWEEN WHAT THE PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS WANT AND WHAT THEIR RELIGION SAYS. PEACE LOVING MUSLIMS WANT AND WHAT THEIR RELIGION SAYS. WE ARE NOW IN AMERICA. WHAT THEIR RELIGION SAYS. WE ARE NOW IN AMERICA. IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF LIKES WE ARE NOW IN AMERICA. IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF LIKES TO COMPARE THE CONSTITUTION IMAM FEISAL ABDUL RAUF LIKES TO COMPARE THE CONSTITUTION TO SHARIA LAW. TO COMPARE THE CONSTITUTION TO SHARIA LAW. THE CONSTITUTION IS ONLY 225 TO SHARIA LAW. THE CONSTITUTION IS ONLY 225 YEARS OLD, AND IT HAD BEEN THE CONSTITUTION IS ONLY 225 YEARS OLD, AND IT HAD BEEN AMENDED 27 TIMES. YEARS OLD, AND IT HAD BEEN AMENDED 27 TIMES. THE CURAN IS AT LEAST 1200 AMENDED 27 TIMES. THE CURAN IS AT LEAST 1200 YEARS OLD. THE CURAN IS AT LEAST 1200 YEARS OLD. IT HAS NOT BEEN AMENDED ONCE. YEARS OLD. IT HAS NOT BEEN AMENDED ONCE. WHAT A SHAME. IT HAS NOT BEEN AMENDED ONCE. WHAT A SHAME. IT IS URGENT AND IMPERATIVE WHAT A SHAME. IT IS URGENT AND IMPERATIVE TO STOP THESE AMENDMENTS -- IT IS URGENT AND IMPERATIVE TO STOP THESE AMENDMENTS -- TO START THESE AMENDMENTS. TO STOP THESE AMENDMENTS -- TO START THESE AMENDMENTS. IT'S TIME TO INNOVATE, TO START THESE AMENDMENTS. IT'S TIME TO INNOVATE, INNOVATE, INNOVATE, AND I IT'S TIME TO INNOVATE, INNOVATE, INNOVATE, AND I WILL DO, LADIES AND INNOVATE, INNOVATE, AND I WILL DO, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHAT I CAN DO TO WILL DO, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP. GENTLEMEN, WHAT I CAN DO TO HELP. THANK YOU. HELP. THANK YOU. >> [APPLAUSE] THANK YOU. >> [APPLAUSE] >> >> [APPLAUSE] >> >> MAAJID NAWAZ, A MUSLIM, A >> >> MAAJID NAWAZ, A MUSLIM, A BRITISH SUBJECT, HE EMBRACED >> MAAJID NAWAZ, A MUSLIM, A BRITISH SUBJECT, HE EMBRACED A RADICAL ISLAM AS TEENAGER BRITISH SUBJECT, HE EMBRACED A RADICAL ISLAM AS TEENAGER AND SIGNED UP FOR THE JAHAD, A RADICAL ISLAM AS TEENAGER AND SIGNED UP FOR THE JAHAD, JOINING A RADICAL MOVEMENT AND SIGNED UP FOR THE JAHAD, JOINING A RADICAL MOVEMENT WHICH LED TO HIS ARREST AND JOINING A RADICAL MOVEMENT WHICH LED TO HIS ARREST AND IMPRISONMENT IN EGYPT AND IT WHICH LED TO HIS ARREST AND IMPRISONMENT IN EGYPT AND IT WAS WHILE HE WAS THERE BEHIND IMPRISONMENT IN EGYPT AND IT WAS WHILE HE WAS THERE BEHIND BARS THAT HE UNDERWENT A WAS WHILE HE WAS THERE BEHIND BARS THAT HE UNDERWENT A CONVERSION. BARS THAT HE UNDERWENT A CONVERSION. HE CAME OUT OF PRISON, CONVERSION. HE CAME OUT OF PRISON, COMMITTED TO PEACE, BUT HE HE CAME OUT OF PRISON, COMMITTED TO PEACE, BUT HE CAME OUT OF PRISON, STILL A COMMITTED TO PEACE, BUT HE CAME OUT OF PRISON, STILL A PRACTICING, BELIEVING, CAME OUT OF PRISON, STILL A PRACTICING, BELIEVING, MUSLIM. PRACTICING, BELIEVING, MUSLIM. HIS JOURNEY COVERS THE FULL MUSLIM. HIS JOURNEY COVERS THE FULL RANGE OF THE QUESTION BEFORE HIS JOURNEY COVERS THE FULL RANGE OF THE QUESTION BEFORE US THIS EVENING, IS ISLAM A RANGE OF THE QUESTION BEFORE US THIS EVENING, IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR US THIS EVENING, IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. THE ANSWER AS PROVIDED TO US PEACE. THE ANSWER AS PROVIDED TO US BY MAAJID NAWAZ. THE ANSWER AS PROVIDED TO US BY MAAJID NAWAZ. >> [APPLAUSE] BY MAAJID NAWAZ. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. I SPEAK TO YOU TODAY HERE AS >> THANK YOU. I SPEAK TO YOU TODAY HERE AS SOMEBODY WHO'S COME FROM THE I SPEAK TO YOU TODAY HERE AS SOMEBODY WHO'S COME FROM THE TRENCHES. SOMEBODY WHO'S COME FROM THE TRENCHES. AS SOMEBODY FROM THE AGE OF TRENCHES. AS SOMEBODY FROM THE AGE OF 16 YEARS OLD, ONWARDS, WAS AS SOMEBODY FROM THE AGE OF 16 YEARS OLD, ONWARDS, WAS DEDICATED TO A VISION THAT 16 YEARS OLD, ONWARDS, WAS DEDICATED TO A VISION THAT ISLAM WAS, INDEED, A RELIGION DEDICATED TO A VISION THAT ISLAM WAS, INDEED, A RELIGION OF WAR AND VIOLENCE. ISLAM WAS, INDEED, A RELIGION OF WAR AND VIOLENCE. AS SOMEBODY WHO TOOK THAT OF WAR AND VIOLENCE. AS SOMEBODY WHO TOOK THAT MESSAGE AND SPREAD IT TO AS SOMEBODY WHO TOOK THAT MESSAGE AND SPREAD IT TO OTHER COUNTRIES, FOR THE MESSAGE AND SPREAD IT TO OTHER COUNTRIES, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CREATING OTHER COUNTRIES, FOR THE PURPOSE OF CREATING REVOLUTION, FOR WHAT I NOW PURPOSE OF CREATING REVOLUTION, FOR WHAT I NOW REFER TO AS MY ISLAMIST REVOLUTION, FOR WHAT I NOW REFER TO AS MY ISLAMIST IDEOLOGY, TO BRING IT TO REFER TO AS MY ISLAMIST IDEOLOGY, TO BRING IT TO POWER, TO CONQUER THE REST OF IDEOLOGY, TO BRING IT TO POWER, TO CONQUER THE REST OF THE WORLD. POWER, TO CONQUER THE REST OF THE WORLD. FROM THOSE TRENCHES, I THE WORLD. FROM THOSE TRENCHES, I WITNESSED TORTURE IN THE FROM THOSE TRENCHES, I WITNESSED TORTURE IN THE PRISONS OF EGYPT. WITNESSED TORTURE IN THE PRISONS OF EGYPT. THERE FOR FOUR YEARS, I PRISONS OF EGYPT. THERE FOR FOUR YEARS, I DEDICATED MYSELF TO STUDYING THERE FOR FOUR YEARS, I DEDICATED MYSELF TO STUDYING FURTHER THIS IDEOLOGY WITH DEDICATED MYSELF TO STUDYING FURTHER THIS IDEOLOGY WITH THE INITIAL INTENTION THAT I FURTHER THIS IDEOLOGY WITH THE INITIAL INTENTION THAT I COULD BECOME AN EVEN MORE THE INITIAL INTENTION THAT I COULD BECOME AN EVEN MORE POTENT RECRUITER FOR THAT COULD BECOME AN EVEN MORE POTENT RECRUITER FOR THAT CAUSE. POTENT RECRUITER FOR THAT CAUSE. I BECAME FLUENT IN THE ARABIC CAUSE. I BECAME FLUENT IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE AND BEGAN STUDYING I BECAME FLUENT IN THE ARABIC LANGUAGE AND BEGAN STUDYING FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCES OF LANGUAGE AND BEGAN STUDYING FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCES OF ISLAM. FROM THE ORIGINAL SOURCES OF ISLAM. AND THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK ISLAM. AND THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME, THAT FORCED ME TO AND THE ONE THING THAT STRUCK ME, THAT FORCED ME TO RECONSIDER MY POSITION, TO ME, THAT FORCED ME TO RECONSIDER MY POSITION, TO CHANGE MY MIND FOR A CAUSE I RECONSIDER MY POSITION, TO CHANGE MY MIND FOR A CAUSE I WAS PREPARED TO DIE FOR, WAS CHANGE MY MIND FOR A CAUSE I WAS PREPARED TO DIE FOR, WAS I LEARNED FROM STUDYING THE WAS PREPARED TO DIE FOR, WAS I LEARNED FROM STUDYING THE ORIGINAL SOURCES OF ISLAM I LEARNED FROM STUDYING THE ORIGINAL SOURCES OF ISLAM THAT IDEAS AND DISPUTE THAT ORIGINAL SOURCES OF ISLAM THAT IDEAS AND DISPUTE THAT IS WE WERE PREPARED TO THAT IDEAS AND DISPUTE THAT IS WE WERE PREPARED TO OVERTHROW GOVERNMENTS FOR HAD IS WE WERE PREPARED TO OVERTHROW GOVERNMENTS FOR HAD TRADITIONALLY BEEN DEBATED OVERTHROW GOVERNMENTS FOR HAD TRADITIONALLY BEEN DEBATED THROUGH THE PAGES OF BOOKS, TRADITIONALLY BEEN DEBATED THROUGH THE PAGES OF BOOKS, BETWEEN THE THEOLOGIANS THROUGH THE PAGES OF BOOKS, BETWEEN THE THEOLOGIANS THEMSELVES, OVER CUPS OF TEA. BETWEEN THE THEOLOGIANS THEMSELVES, OVER CUPS OF TEA. UPON MY RELEASE FROM PRISON, THEMSELVES, OVER CUPS OF TEA. UPON MY RELEASE FROM PRISON, IT BECAME IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME UPON MY RELEASE FROM PRISON, IT BECAME IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SUSTAIN MY POSITION WITHIN IT BECAME IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO SUSTAIN MY POSITION WITHIN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ISLAM TO SUSTAIN MY POSITION WITHIN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ISLAM ORGANIZATION THAT I JOINED. THE LEADERSHIP OF THE ISLAM ORGANIZATION THAT I JOINED. I WANT TO CORRECT MY ORGANIZATION THAT I JOINED. I WANT TO CORRECT MY INTRODUCTION BY SAYING ONE I WANT TO CORRECT MY INTRODUCTION BY SAYING ONE THING. INTRODUCTION BY SAYING ONE THING. I AM NOT A DEVOUT MUSLIM. THING. I AM NOT A DEVOUT MUSLIM. I MAKE NO PRETENSE TO BE A I AM NOT A DEVOUT MUSLIM. I MAKE NO PRETENSE TO BE A RELIGIOUS LEADER. I MAKE NO PRETENSE TO BE A RELIGIOUS LEADER. IN FACT I NEVER WAS. RELIGIOUS LEADER. IN FACT I NEVER WAS. MY CONVERSION TO ISLAMISM WAS IN FACT I NEVER WAS. MY CONVERSION TO ISLAMISM WAS A POLITICAL REVOLUTION WITH MY CONVERSION TO ISLAMISM WAS A POLITICAL REVOLUTION WITH RELIGIOUS CONNOTATIONS, IT A POLITICAL REVOLUTION WITH RELIGIOUS CONNOTATIONS, IT WAS NOT A RELIGIOUS RELIGIOUS CONNOTATIONS, IT WAS NOT A RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION WITH POLITICAL WAS NOT A RELIGIOUS REVOLUTION WITH POLITICAL CONNOTATIONS. REVOLUTION WITH POLITICAL CONNOTATIONS. I DON'T HOLD MYSELF OUT TO BE CONNOTATIONS. I DON'T HOLD MYSELF OUT TO BE DEVOUT, BUT I DO MAINTAIN I DON'T HOLD MYSELF OUT TO BE DEVOUT, BUT I DO MAINTAIN THAT I REMAIN A MUSLIM AND DEVOUT, BUT I DO MAINTAIN THAT I REMAIN A MUSLIM AND WHEN I SPEAK AND WHEN I THAT I REMAIN A MUSLIM AND WHEN I SPEAK AND WHEN I DISCUSS, I SPEAK POLITICALLY, WHEN I SPEAK AND WHEN I DISCUSS, I SPEAK POLITICALLY, IDEOLOGICALLY, AND I'M STILL DISCUSS, I SPEAK POLITICALLY, IDEOLOGICALLY, AND I'M STILL IN THE TRENCHES. IDEOLOGICALLY, AND I'M STILL IN THE TRENCHES. I FREQUENT PAKISTAN. IN THE TRENCHES. I FREQUENT PAKISTAN. IN FACT, AAYAN MENTIONED I FREQUENT PAKISTAN. IN FACT, AAYAN MENTIONED MALALA, THE YOUNG GIRL SHOT IN FACT, AAYAN MENTIONED MALALA, THE YOUNG GIRL SHOT IN THE HEAD BY THE TALIBAN. MALALA, THE YOUNG GIRL SHOT IN THE HEAD BY THE TALIBAN. WITHIN THAT VERY MONTH I WAS IN THE HEAD BY THE TALIBAN. WITHIN THAT VERY MONTH I WAS THERE IN HER CITY IN MING WITHIN THAT VERY MONTH I WAS THERE IN HER CITY IN MING ORA, ORGANIZING A PUBLIC THERE IN HER CITY IN MING ORA, ORGANIZING A PUBLIC DEBATE TO DISCUSS THE ROOT ORA, ORGANIZING A PUBLIC DEBATE TO DISCUSS THE ROOT CAUSES OF EXTREMISM. DEBATE TO DISCUSS THE ROOT CAUSES OF EXTREMISM. IN DEFIANCE OF THE TALIBAN, CAUSES OF EXTREMISM. IN DEFIANCE OF THE TALIBAN, BECAUSE THE CONCLUSION I CAME IN DEFIANCE OF THE TALIBAN, BECAUSE THE CONCLUSION I CAME TO THROUGH MY STUDIES IN BECAUSE THE CONCLUSION I CAME TO THROUGH MY STUDIES IN PRISON WAS ONE CONCLUSION, TO THROUGH MY STUDIES IN PRISON WAS ONE CONCLUSION, AND THAT IS ISLAM IS NOT A PRISON WAS ONE CONCLUSION, AND THAT IS ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, BUT IT AND THAT IS ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, BUT IT IS ALSO NOT A RELIGION OF RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, BUT IT IS ALSO NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE, AND IN SAYING THIS, I IS ALSO NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE, AND IN SAYING THIS, I SIT BETWEEN MY TWO PEACE, AND IN SAYING THIS, I SIT BETWEEN MY TWO COPANELISTS HERE. SIT BETWEEN MY TWO COPANELISTS HERE. IN FACT, LADIES AND COPANELISTS HERE. IN FACT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ISLAM IS A IN FACT, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, ISLAM IS A RELIGION. GENTLEMEN, ISLAM IS A RELIGION. LIKE ALL OTHER RELIGIONS ON RELIGION. LIKE ALL OTHER RELIGIONS ON THIS PLANET, FROM TIME LIKE ALL OTHER RELIGIONS ON THIS PLANET, FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL, IT'S BEEN THIS PLANET, FROM TIME IMMEMORIAL, IT'S BEEN INTERPRETED, LIKE IMMEMORIAL, IT'S BEEN INTERPRETED, LIKE CHRISTIANITY HAS IN THE PAST, INTERPRETED, LIKE CHRISTIANITY HAS IN THE PAST, TO CAUSE MUCH DEVASTATION ON CHRISTIANITY HAS IN THE PAST, TO CAUSE MUCH DEVASTATION ON THIS EARTH AND IT'S ALSO BEEN TO CAUSE MUCH DEVASTATION ON THIS EARTH AND IT'S ALSO BEEN INTERPRETED TOWARDS PEACEFUL THIS EARTH AND IT'S ALSO BEEN INTERPRETED TOWARDS PEACEFUL ENDS. INTERPRETED TOWARDS PEACEFUL ENDS. ISLAM IS A RELIGION. ENDS. ISLAM IS A RELIGION. SO THE QUESTION IS NEXT HOW ISLAM IS A RELIGION. SO THE QUESTION IS NEXT HOW DO WE DEFINE THIS RELIGION IF SO THE QUESTION IS NEXT HOW DO WE DEFINE THIS RELIGION IF ESSENTIALLY IT'S NOT ONE OF DO WE DEFINE THIS RELIGION IF ESSENTIALLY IT'S NOT ONE OF PEACE OR VIOLENCE? ESSENTIALLY IT'S NOT ONE OF PEACE OR VIOLENCE? IT'S BY THE MAJORITY OF PEACE OR VIOLENCE? IT'S BY THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS WHO INTERPRET IT IT'S BY THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS WHO INTERPRET IT TODAY. MUSLIMS WHO INTERPRET IT TODAY. THIS POSES TWO PARTICULARLY TODAY. THIS POSES TWO PARTICULARLY ACUTE CHALLENGES: ONE, IS, THIS POSES TWO PARTICULARLY ACUTE CHALLENGES: ONE, IS, YES, THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ACUTE CHALLENGES: ONE, IS, YES, THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. YES, THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY TODAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. SO ONE CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY ARE NOT TERRORISTS. SO ONE CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT ISLAM IS NOT A LIG OFF SO ONE CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT ISLAM IS NOT A LIG OFF OF TERRORISM IF WE'RE THAT ISLAM IS NOT A LIG OFF OF TERRORISM IF WE'RE DEFINING RELIGION BY ITS OF TERRORISM IF WE'RE DEFINING RELIGION BY ITS FOLLOWERS. DEFINING RELIGION BY ITS FOLLOWERS. HOWEVER, THAT DOESN'T GET US FOLLOWERS. HOWEVER, THAT DOESN'T GET US OFF SCOTT FREE AS MUSLIMS, HOWEVER, THAT DOESN'T GET US OFF SCOTT FREE AS MUSLIMS, OTHERWISE I WOULDN'T BE DOING OFF SCOTT FREE AS MUSLIMS, OTHERWISE I WOULDN'T BE DOING WHAT I WOULD BE DOING TO OTHERWISE I WOULDN'T BE DOING WHAT I WOULD BE DOING TO CHALLENGE EXTREMISM AROUND WHAT I WOULD BE DOING TO CHALLENGE EXTREMISM AROUND THE WORLD, BECAUSE THE CHALLENGE EXTREMISM AROUND THE WORLD, BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE THE WORLD, BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE YET TO ARRIVE IN ANY FORM OF MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS TODAY ARE YET TO ARRIVE IN ANY FORM OF TANGIBLE, CONCRETE WAY TO YET TO ARRIVE IN ANY FORM OF TANGIBLE, CONCRETE WAY TO WHAT WE WOULD UNDERSTAND AS TANGIBLE, CONCRETE WAY TO WHAT WE WOULD UNDERSTAND AS LIBERAL, DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS WHAT WE WOULD UNDERSTAND AS LIBERAL, DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS OF GOVERNANCE. LIBERAL, DEMOCRATIC SYSTEMS OF GOVERNANCE. AND SO THOUGH ISLAM TODAY OF GOVERNANCE. AND SO THOUGH ISLAM TODAY CANNOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A AND SO THOUGH ISLAM TODAY CANNOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A RELIGION OF TERRORISM IT ALSO CANNOT BE CLASSIFIED AS A RELIGION OF TERRORISM IT ALSO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO RELIGION OF TERRORISM IT ALSO DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO CLASSIFY ISLAM TODAY AS A DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO CLASSIFY ISLAM TODAY AS A RELIGION OF HARMONY, OF CLASSIFY ISLAM TODAY AS A RELIGION OF HARMONY, OF TOLERANCE, BECAUSE OF COURSE RELIGION OF HARMONY, OF TOLERANCE, BECAUSE OF COURSE WE SEE AROUND THE WORLD THERE TOLERANCE, BECAUSE OF COURSE WE SEE AROUND THE WORLD THERE IS MUCH MAYHEM. WE SEE AROUND THE WORLD THERE IS MUCH MAYHEM. MORE MUSLIMS ARE KILLING EACH IS MUCH MAYHEM. MORE MUSLIMS ARE KILLING EACH OTHER TODAY THAN ANY ONE ELSE MORE MUSLIMS ARE KILLING EACH OTHER TODAY THAN ANY ONE ELSE IS KILLING THEM. OTHER TODAY THAN ANY ONE ELSE IS KILLING THEM. MUSLIMS ARE THROWN INTO DEEP IS KILLING THEM. MUSLIMS ARE THROWN INTO DEEP CONFUSION. MUSLIMS ARE THROWN INTO DEEP CONFUSION. BUT IT DOESN'T HELP IN THIS CONFUSION. BUT IT DOESN'T HELP IN THIS CAUSE, THIS THIS STRUGGLE, BUT IT DOESN'T HELP IN THIS CAUSE, THIS THIS STRUGGLE, WHICH IS ALL OF OUR STRUGGLE, CAUSE, THIS THIS STRUGGLE, WHICH IS ALL OF OUR STRUGGLE, TO ESSENTIALIZE ISLAM TO SAY WHICH IS ALL OF OUR STRUGGLE, TO ESSENTIALIZE ISLAM TO SAY IT'S A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, TO ESSENTIALIZE ISLAM TO SAY IT'S A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, TO GO TO MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN IT'S A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, TO GO TO MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN AND SAY YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES, TO GO TO MUSLIMS IN PAKISTAN AND SAY YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES, EITHER SUBSCRIBE TO THE AND SAY YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES, EITHER SUBSCRIBE TO THE INTERPRETATION OF YOUR EITHER SUBSCRIBE TO THE INTERPRETATION OF YOUR RELIGION THAT BIN LADEN HAD, INTERPRETATION OF YOUR RELIGION THAT BIN LADEN HAD, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A WAR OF RELIGION THAT BIN LADEN HAD, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A WAR OF RELIGION AND TERRORISM, OR WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY A WAR OF RELIGION AND TERRORISM, OR YOU LEAVE ISLAM BECAUSE THE RELIGION AND TERRORISM, OR YOU LEAVE ISLAM BECAUSE THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN EXOOS YOU LEAVE ISLAM BECAUSE THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN EXOOS FILM -- EX-MUSLIM. ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN EXOOS FILM -- EX-MUSLIM. EVEN MALALA DOES NOT MAKE FILM -- EX-MUSLIM. EVEN MALALA DOES NOT MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, THE GIRL WHO EVEN MALALA DOES NOT MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, THE GIRL WHO WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD BY THE THIS ARGUMENT, THE GIRL WHO WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD BY THE TALIBAN. WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD BY THE TALIBAN. IF YOU TRY TO MAKE THIS TALIBAN. IF YOU TRY TO MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, I WILL ASSURE YOU IF YOU TRY TO MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, I WILL ASSURE YOU YOU WILL LOSE THE DEBATE. ARGUMENT, I WILL ASSURE YOU YOU WILL LOSE THE DEBATE. NO ONE WANTS TO BE TOLD THE YOU WILL LOSE THE DEBATE. NO ONE WANTS TO BE TOLD THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN NO ONE WANTS TO BE TOLD THE ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN APOSTATE. ONLY GOOD MUSLIM IS AN APOSTATE. THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS TO APOSTATE. THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS TO SAY THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION THE ONLY WAY FORWARD IS TO SAY THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION THAT CAN BE INTERPRETED. SAY THAT ISLAM IS A RELIGION THAT CAN BE INTERPRETED. THAT'S FOR US TO PROMOTE THE THAT CAN BE INTERPRETED. THAT'S FOR US TO PROMOTE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS THAT'S FOR US TO PROMOTE THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS RISKING THEIR VERY LIVES TO FACT THAT THERE ARE MUSLIMS RISKING THEIR VERY LIVES TO REINTERPRET THIS STATE AND RISKING THEIR VERY LIVES TO REINTERPRET THIS STATE AND DEMONSTRATE AND PROMOTE AND REINTERPRET THIS STATE AND DEMONSTRATE AND PROMOTE AND TO ENCOURAGE THOSE DEMONSTRATE AND PROMOTE AND TO ENCOURAGE THOSE INTERPRETATIONS THAT DO TAKE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE INTERPRETATIONS THAT DO TAKE A GENUINE LOOK AT SCRIPTURE INTERPRETATIONS THAT DO TAKE A GENUINE LOOK AT SCRIPTURE AND DO RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TWO A GENUINE LOOK AT SCRIPTURE AND DO RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TWO TWIN CHALLENGES THAT ARE AND DO RECOGNIZE WE HAVE TWO TWIN CHALLENGES THAT ARE DOMINATING MUSLIM MAJORITY TWIN CHALLENGES THAT ARE DOMINATING MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES TODAY. DOMINATING MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES TODAY. THE FIRST, THE IDEOLOGY OF COUNTRIES TODAY. THE FIRST, THE IDEOLOGY OF ISLAMISM, WHICH OVERLY THE FIRST, THE IDEOLOGY OF ISLAMISM, WHICH OVERLY POLITICIZES THE FAITH. ISLAMISM, WHICH OVERLY POLITICIZES THE FAITH. ISLAMISM IS BRIEFLY DEFINED POLITICIZES THE FAITH. ISLAMISM IS BRIEFLY DEFINED AS THE DESIRE TO IMPOSE ANY ISLAMISM IS BRIEFLY DEFINED AS THE DESIRE TO IMPOSE ANY INTERPRETATION OF THE FAITH AS THE DESIRE TO IMPOSE ANY INTERPRETATION OF THE FAITH OVER SOCIETY. INTERPRETATION OF THE FAITH OVER SOCIETY. THERE'S THAT ONE CHALLENGE OVER SOCIETY. THERE'S THAT ONE CHALLENGE THERE. THERE'S THAT ONE CHALLENGE THERE. THE OTHER CHALLENGE, THERE. THE OTHER CHALLENGE, MANIFESTS ITSELF ON A SOCIAL THE OTHER CHALLENGE, MANIFESTS ITSELF ON A SOCIAL LEVEL AND THAT'S THE MANIFESTS ITSELF ON A SOCIAL LEVEL AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE OF FUNDAMENTALISM. LEVEL AND THAT'S THE CHALLENGE OF FUNDAMENTALISM. NOT EVERY FUNDAMENTALIST CHALLENGE OF FUNDAMENTALISM. NOT EVERY FUNDAMENTALIST WANTS TO IMPOSE AND TAKE OVER NOT EVERY FUNDAMENTALIST WANTS TO IMPOSE AND TAKE OVER GOVERNMENTS, BUT THEY HAVE WANTS TO IMPOSE AND TAKE OVER GOVERNMENTS, BUT THEY HAVE VERY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENTS, BUT THEY HAVE VERY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE SOCIAL MORES, MANIFEST VERY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE SOCIAL MORES, MANIFEST INDICATIONS SUCH AS FORCED SOCIAL MORES, MANIFEST INDICATIONS SUCH AS FORCED MARRIAGE, FEMALE GENITAL INDICATIONS SUCH AS FORCED MARRIAGE, FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, HONOR KILLINGS. MARRIAGE, FEMALE GENITAL MUTILATION, HONOR KILLINGS. THEY DON'T COME FROM THE MUTILATION, HONOR KILLINGS. THEY DON'T COME FROM THE ORGANIZED GROUPS BUT FROM THEY DON'T COME FROM THE ORGANIZED GROUPS BUT FROM FUNDAMENTALISTS AND THE TWO ORGANIZED GROUPS BUT FROM FUNDAMENTALISTS AND THE TWO CHALLENGES ARE SUFFOCATING FUNDAMENTALISTS AND THE TWO CHALLENGES ARE SUFFOCATING POLIT KALG AND SOCIAL DEBATE CHALLENGES ARE SUFFOCATING POLIT KALG AND SOCIAL DEBATE AND DISCOURSE WITHIN MUSLIM POLIT KALG AND SOCIAL DEBATE AND DISCOURSE WITHIN MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES. AND DISCOURSE WITHIN MUSLIM MAJORITY COUNTRIES. THERE IS NO LARGER CHALLENGE MAJORITY COUNTRIES. THERE IS NO LARGER CHALLENGE THAN TO CONFRONT THESE TWO. THERE IS NO LARGER CHALLENGE THAN TO CONFRONT THESE TWO. SO I ASK YOU, LADIES AND THAN TO CONFRONT THESE TWO. SO I ASK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, TO CONSIDER THIS SO I ASK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, TO CONSIDER THIS QUESTION, IN SUPPORTING GENTLEMEN, TO CONSIDER THIS QUESTION, IN SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE GENUINELY QUESTION, IN SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE GENUINELY ATTEMPTING TO REFORM THIS PEOPLE WHO ARE GENUINELY ATTEMPTING TO REFORM THIS DISCOURSE FROM WITHIN, ATTEMPTING TO REFORM THIS DISCOURSE FROM WITHIN, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY DISCOURSE FROM WITHIN, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY FORWARD, AND I'LL TELL THANK BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY WAY FORWARD, AND I'LL TELL THANK YOU NOW. FORWARD, AND I'LL TELL THANK YOU NOW. WE MENTIONED THE REFORMATION. YOU NOW. WE MENTIONED THE REFORMATION. MARTIN LUTHER. WE MENTIONED THE REFORMATION. MARTIN LUTHER. BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, WAS A MARTIN LUTHER. BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, WAS A CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST. BY TODAY'S STANDARDS, WAS A CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST. MARTIN LUTHER, THE MAN WHO CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST. MARTIN LUTHER, THE MAN WHO BROKE CHRISTIANITY AWAY FROM MARTIN LUTHER, THE MAN WHO BROKE CHRISTIANITY AWAY FROM THE CHURCH, WAS A DEEPLY, BROKE CHRISTIANITY AWAY FROM THE CHURCH, WAS A DEEPLY, DEEPLY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE, THE CHURCH, WAS A DEEPLY, DEEPLY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE, SOME WOULD SAY DEVOUT,O DEEPLY ULTRA CONSERVATIVE, SOME WOULD SAY DEVOUT,O DEVOUT, MAN, BUT IF IT WASN'T SOME WOULD SAY DEVOUT,O DEVOUT, MAN, BUT IF IT WASN'T FROM THAT DISCOURSE WITHIN DEVOUT, MAN, BUT IF IT WASN'T FROM THAT DISCOURSE WITHIN CHRISTIANITY WE WOULD NOT FROM THAT DISCOURSE WITHIN CHRISTIANITY WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE REFORMATION AND CHRISTIANITY WE WOULD NOT HAVE HAD THE REFORMATION AND NOT BE ENJOYING THE HAVE HAD THE REFORMATION AND NOT BE ENJOYING THE SECULARISM THAT ALL OF US NOT BE ENJOYING THE SECULARISM THAT ALL OF US FIGHT TO PROTECT TODAY. SECULARISM THAT ALL OF US FIGHT TO PROTECT TODAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. FIGHT TO PROTECT TODAY. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] THANK YOU VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >> FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, [APPLAUSE] >> FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, AMERICAN. >> FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, AMERICAN. FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, MUSLIM. AMERICAN. FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, MUSLIM. HAVING BOTH OF THESE FEISAL ABDUL RAUF, MUSLIM. HAVING BOTH OF THESE IDENTITIES AND PUTTING THEM HAVING BOTH OF THESE IDENTITIES AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER AND THEN REACHING IDENTITIES AND PUTTING THEM TOGETHER AND THEN REACHING OUT TO AMERICANS OF OTHER TOGETHER AND THEN REACHING OUT TO AMERICANS OF OTHER IDENTITIES HAS BEEN PART OF OUT TO AMERICANS OF OTHER IDENTITIES HAS BEEN PART OF THE LIFE'S WORK OF THE IMAM IDENTITIES HAS BEEN PART OF THE LIFE'S WORK OF THE IMAM FROM NEW YORK CITY WHO HAS SO THE LIFE'S WORK OF THE IMAM FROM NEW YORK CITY WHO HAS SO OFTEN FOUND HIMSELF AS A MAN FROM NEW YORK CITY WHO HAS SO OFTEN FOUND HIMSELF AS A MAN CALLED UPON TO EXPLAIN ISLAM OFTEN FOUND HIMSELF AS A MAN CALLED UPON TO EXPLAIN ISLAM TO AMERICANS WHO ARE CURIOUS CALLED UPON TO EXPLAIN ISLAM TO AMERICANS WHO ARE CURIOUS ENOUGH TO ASK, TO KNOW MORE, TO AMERICANS WHO ARE CURIOUS ENOUGH TO ASK, TO KNOW MORE, AS WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW. ENOUGH TO ASK, TO KNOW MORE, AS WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW. IMAM FEISAL AND HIS ANSWER TO AS WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW. IMAM FEISAL AND HIS ANSWER TO WHETHER ISLAM IS A RELIGION IMAM FEISAL AND HIS ANSWER TO WHETHER ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. WHETHER ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. >> [APPLAUSE] OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. >> [APPLAUSE] >> GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND >> [APPLAUSE] >> GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. >> GOOD EVENING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE IN GENTLEMEN. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE IN THIS SPACE KNOWN AS A MOSQUE. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE HERE IN THIS SPACE KNOWN AS A MOSQUE. ONCE KNOWN AS THE MOSQUE, THIS SPACE KNOWN AS A MOSQUE. ONCE KNOWN AS THE MOSQUE, AND, THEREFORE, IT IS ONCE KNOWN AS THE MOSQUE, AND, THEREFORE, IT IS PLEASING TO ME THAT ISLAM HAS AND, THEREFORE, IT IS PLEASING TO ME THAT ISLAM HAS SHAPED THIS SPACE, AT LEAST PLEASING TO ME THAT ISLAM HAS SHAPED THIS SPACE, AT LEAST IN THE ARCHITECTURAL SPENCE. SHAPED THIS SPACE, AT LEAST IN THE ARCHITECTURAL SPENCE. -- SENSE. IN THE ARCHITECTURAL SPENCE. -- SENSE. >> [APPLAUSE] -- SENSE. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THANK YOU. >> THE DISCOURSE THAT WE JUST >> THANK YOU. >> THE DISCOURSE THAT WE JUST HEARD UNDERLINES WHY IT IS >> THE DISCOURSE THAT WE JUST HEARD UNDERLINES WHY IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR US TO HEARD UNDERLINES WHY IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE A VERY CLEAR EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE A VERY CLEAR UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT WE HAVE A VERY CLEAR UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT WE MEAN BY THE TERMS WE USE. UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT WE MEAN BY THE TERMS WE USE. I THINK IT IS VERY DANGEROUS MEAN BY THE TERMS WE USE. I THINK IT IS VERY DANGEROUS IN AN INCREASINGLY I THINK IT IS VERY DANGEROUS IN AN INCREASINGLY MULTICULTURAL AND INTERNET IN AN INCREASINGLY MULTICULTURAL AND INTERNET WORLD TO CLAIM THAT ANY MULTICULTURAL AND INTERNET WORLD TO CLAIM THAT ANY RELIGION BE IT ISLAM, WORLD TO CLAIM THAT ANY RELIGION BE IT ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY, TALIBAN RELIGION BE IT ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY, TALIBAN JUDAISM, BE IT HINDUISM OR CHRISTIANITY, TALIBAN JUDAISM, BE IT HINDUISM OR BUDDHISM, AS A RELIGION OF JUDAISM, BE IT HINDUISM OR BUDDHISM, AS A RELIGION OF WAR OR OF VIOLENCE. BUDDHISM, AS A RELIGION OF WAR OR OF VIOLENCE. >> I BELIEVE THAT EVERY WAR OR OF VIOLENCE. >> I BELIEVE THAT EVERY RELIGION, EVERY AUTHENTIC >> I BELIEVE THAT EVERY RELIGION, EVERY AUTHENTIC REVELATION FROM THE CREATOR RELIGION, EVERY AUTHENTIC REVELATION FROM THE CREATOR TO HUMANITY WAS ABOUT PEACE REVELATION FROM THE CREATOR TO HUMANITY WAS ABOUT PEACE AND ABOUT THE TWO FUNDAMENTAL TO HUMANITY WAS ABOUT PEACE AND ABOUT THE TWO FUNDAMENTAL COMMANDMENTS THAT ARE COMMON AND ABOUT THE TWO FUNDAMENTAL COMMANDMENTS THAT ARE COMMON TO ALL OF OUR FAITH COMMANDMENTS THAT ARE COMMON TO ALL OF OUR FAITH TRADITIONS: TO LOVE THE TO ALL OF OUR FAITH TRADITIONS: TO LOVE THE LORD, OUR GOD, OUR CREATOR, TRADITIONS: TO LOVE THE LORD, OUR GOD, OUR CREATOR, WITH ALL OF OUR HEART, OUR LORD, OUR GOD, OUR CREATOR, WITH ALL OF OUR HEART, OUR MINDS, OUR SOULS, AND OUR WITH ALL OF OUR HEART, OUR MINDS, OUR SOULS, AND OUR STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE OUR MINDS, OUR SOULS, AND OUR STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AS WE STRENGTH, AND TO LOVE OUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AS WE LOVE OURSELVES. FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AS WE LOVE OURSELVES. >> [APPLAUSE] LOVE OURSELVES. >> [APPLAUSE] >> IN A FAMOUS TRAD, WE >> [APPLAUSE] >> IN A FAMOUS TRAD, WE BELIEVE THAT THE ARCH ANGEL >> IN A FAMOUS TRAD, WE BELIEVE THAT THE ARCH ANGEL GABRIELLE CAME AND VISITED BELIEVE THAT THE ARCH ANGEL GABRIELLE CAME AND VISITED THE PROPHET WITH HIS GABRIELLE CAME AND VISITED THE PROPHET WITH HIS COMPANIONS, AND HE ASKED THE THE PROPHET WITH HIS COMPANIONS, AND HE ASKED THE PROPHET, WHAT IS ISLAM. COMPANIONS, AND HE ASKED THE PROPHET, WHAT IS ISLAM. THE PROPHET ANSWERED, ISLAM PROPHET, WHAT IS ISLAM. THE PROPHET ANSWERED, ISLAM IS TO BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE THE PROPHET ANSWERED, ISLAM IS TO BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD. IS TO BEAR WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD. AND IS THAT MOHAMMED IS HIS IS NO GOD BUT GOD. AND IS THAT MOHAMMED IS HIS PROPHET. AND IS THAT MOHAMMED IS HIS PROPHET. WE BELIEVE THAT ALL THE PROPHET. WE BELIEVE THAT ALL THE PROPHETS WERE SENT BY GOD. WE BELIEVE THAT ALL THE PROPHETS WERE SENT BY GOD. TO PERFORM THE DAILY PRAYER, PROPHETS WERE SENT BY GOD. TO PERFORM THE DAILY PRAYER, TO GIVE CHARITY. TO PERFORM THE DAILY PRAYER, TO GIVE CHARITY. TO FAST. TO GIVE CHARITY. TO FAST. IN OUR CASE, TO FAST THE TO FAST. IN OUR CASE, TO FAST THE MONTH OF RAMADAN. IN OUR CASE, TO FAST THE MONTH OF RAMADAN. AND TO PILGRIM TO MECCA, MONTH OF RAMADAN. AND TO PILGRIM TO MECCA, WHOEVER CAN AFFORD IT AND TO PILGRIM TO MECCA, WHOEVER CAN AFFORD IT PHYSICALLY AND FINANCIALLY. WHOEVER CAN AFFORD IT PHYSICALLY AND FINANCIALLY. THAT IS THE CLASSICAL PHYSICALLY AND FINANCIALLY. THAT IS THE CLASSICAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ISLAM THAT IS THE CLASSICAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ISLAM IS. UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT ISLAM IS. MUSLIMS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY IS. MUSLIMS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY CHRISTIANS ARE A DIFFERENT MUSLIMS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY CHRISTIANS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY. CHRISTIANS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY. BUDDHISTS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY. BUDDHISTS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY. BUDDHISTS ARE A DIFFERENT STORY. WE ARE INSPIRED BY THAT. STORY. WE ARE INSPIRED BY THAT. AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THE WE ARE INSPIRED BY THAT. AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THE PURPOSE OF ALL RELIGIONS IS AND I AM CONVINCED THAT THE PURPOSE OF ALL RELIGIONS IS TO BRING HUMAN BEINGS TO THE PURPOSE OF ALL RELIGIONS IS TO BRING HUMAN BEINGS TO THE VISION OF GOD. TO BRING HUMAN BEINGS TO THE VISION OF GOD. TO ENABLE US TO SEE GOD. VISION OF GOD. TO ENABLE US TO SEE GOD. IN FACT, THE VERY FUNDAMENTAL TO ENABLE US TO SEE GOD. IN FACT, THE VERY FUNDAMENTAL TESTIMONY OF ISLAM IS TO IN FACT, THE VERY FUNDAMENTAL TESTIMONY OF ISLAM IS TO WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD TESTIMONY OF ISLAM IS TO WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT THE ONE GOD. WITNESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT THE ONE GOD. AND FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, BUT THE ONE GOD. AND FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, AND EXPERIENCE OF THOSE WHO I AND FROM MY OWN EXPERIENCE, AND EXPERIENCE OF THOSE WHO I KNOW WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH AND EXPERIENCE OF THOSE WHO I KNOW WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE, WHEN A HUMAN KNOW WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE, WHEN A HUMAN BEING IS TOUCHED BY THE THIS EXPERIENCE, WHEN A HUMAN BEING IS TOUCHED BY THE VISION OF GOD, HE OR SHE BEING IS TOUCHED BY THE VISION OF GOD, HE OR SHE BECOMES TOTALLY TRANSFORMED. VISION OF GOD, HE OR SHE BECOMES TOTALLY TRANSFORMED. BUT THERE HAVE BEEN BECOMES TOTALLY TRANSFORMED. BUT THERE HAVE BEEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY, IN THE BUT THERE HAVE BEEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY, IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, ESPECIALLY, 40 THROUGHOUT HISTORY, IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, ESPECIALLY, 40 YEARS, OF OUR COMMON HISTORY, LAST 30 YEARS, ESPECIALLY, 40 YEARS, OF OUR COMMON HISTORY, WE HAVE SEEN IN THE CASE OF YEARS, OF OUR COMMON HISTORY, WE HAVE SEEN IN THE CASE OF MUSLIMS A GREAT DEAL OF WE HAVE SEEN IN THE CASE OF MUSLIMS A GREAT DEAL OF VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS A GREAT DEAL OF VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS, BOTH AGAINST VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY MUSLIMS, BOTH AGAINST NONMUSLIMS AND AGAINST THEIR MUSLIMS, BOTH AGAINST NONMUSLIMS AND AGAINST THEIR OWN SELVES. NONMUSLIMS AND AGAINST THEIR OWN SELVES. THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL OWN SELVES. THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL TRAGEDY THAT EXISTS IN THE THIS IS THE FUNDAMENTAL TRAGEDY THAT EXISTS IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY. TRAGEDY THAT EXISTS IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY. BUT I THINK IT IS FALSE, I MUSLIM WORLD TODAY. BUT I THINK IT IS FALSE, I FEEL IT IS -- I'M CONVINCED BUT I THINK IT IS FALSE, I FEEL IT IS -- I'M CONVINCED IT IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF FEEL IT IS -- I'M CONVINCED IT IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF EVEN THE CONCEPTS OF WHAT IT IS A MISUNDERSTANDING OF EVEN THE CONCEPTS OF WHAT RELIGION IS ABOUT, THAT WE EVEN THE CONCEPTS OF WHAT RELIGION IS ABOUT, THAT WE CALL ANY RELIGION VIOLENT. RELIGION IS ABOUT, THAT WE CALL ANY RELIGION VIOLENT. WE CANNOT AFFORD THAT. CALL ANY RELIGION VIOLENT. WE CANNOT AFFORD THAT. AND WE HAVE TO REFRAME THE WE CANNOT AFFORD THAT. AND WE HAVE TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE. AND WE HAVE TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE. I JUST READ A BOOK WHICH I DISCOURSE. I JUST READ A BOOK WHICH I THINKEN MANY OF YOU WOULD I JUST READ A BOOK WHICH I THINKEN MANY OF YOU WOULD FIND INTERESTING, THINKEN MANY OF YOU WOULD FIND INTERESTING, CALLED-POSITIVE DEVIANCE", IN FIND INTERESTING, CALLED-POSITIVE DEVIANCE", IN WHICH THIS GROUP OF SCHOLARS CALLED-POSITIVE DEVIANCE", IN WHICH THIS GROUP OF SCHOLARS IDENTIFIED PEOPLE WHO WHICH THIS GROUP OF SCHOLARS IDENTIFIED PEOPLE WHO DEVIATED FROM THE NORM AND IDENTIFIED PEOPLE WHO DEVIATED FROM THE NORM AND HOW TO SHIFT THE NORM, AND DEVIATED FROM THE NORM AND HOW TO SHIFT THE NORM, AND ONE OF THE KEY LESSONS WAS HOW TO SHIFT THE NORM, AND ONE OF THE KEY LESSONS WAS YOU HAVE TO SHIFT THE FRAME ONE OF THE KEY LESSONS WAS YOU HAVE TO SHIFT THE FRAME OF THE DISCOURSE. YOU HAVE TO SHIFT THE FRAME OF THE DISCOURSE. THE DISCOURSE IS NOT ISLAM OF THE DISCOURSE. THE DISCOURSE IS NOT ISLAM VERSUS THE WEST, OR MUSLIMS THE DISCOURSE IS NOT ISLAM VERSUS THE WEST, OR MUSLIMS VERSUS CHRISTIANS, OR MUSLIMS VERSUS THE WEST, OR MUSLIMS VERSUS CHRISTIANS, OR MUSLIMS VERSUS HINDUS. VERSUS CHRISTIANS, OR MUSLIMS VERSUS HINDUS. IF WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE THIS VERSUS HINDUS. IF WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, WE MUST SHIFT THE IF WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM, WE MUST SHIFT THE DISCOURSE, WITH EXTREMISTS OF PROBLEM, WE MUST SHIFT THE DISCOURSE, WITH EXTREMISTS OF ALL FAITHS AND TRADITIONS AND DISCOURSE, WITH EXTREMISTS OF ALL FAITHS AND TRADITIONS AND MODERATES OF ALL FAITH ALL FAITHS AND TRADITIONS AND MODERATES OF ALL FAITH TRADITIONS. MODERATES OF ALL FAITH TRADITIONS. FOR I AND MANY OF MY FELLOW TRADITIONS. FOR I AND MANY OF MY FELLOW FAITH TRADITIONALISTS FROM FOR I AND MANY OF MY FELLOW FAITH TRADITIONALISTS FROM VARIOUS TRADITIONS HAVE FELT FAITH TRADITIONALISTS FROM VARIOUS TRADITIONS HAVE FELT CLOSER -- I FEEL CLOSER TO VARIOUS TRADITIONS HAVE FELT CLOSER -- I FEEL CLOSER TO MANY JEWISH FRIENDS, CLOSER -- I FEEL CLOSER TO MANY JEWISH FRIENDS, CHRISTIAN FRIENDS, ATHEIST MANY JEWISH FRIENDS, CHRISTIAN FRIENDS, ATHEIST FRIENDS, BUDDHIST FRIENDS, CHRISTIAN FRIENDS, ATHEIST FRIENDS, BUDDHIST FRIENDS, THAN I AM TO MANY OF MY FRIENDS, BUDDHIST FRIENDS, THAN I AM TO MANY OF MY FELLOW MUSLIMS WHOSE ATTITUDE THAN I AM TO MANY OF MY FELLOW MUSLIMS WHOSE ATTITUDE AND WORLD VIEW IS FELLOW MUSLIMS WHOSE ATTITUDE AND WORLD VIEW IS FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WITH MY AND WORLD VIEW IS FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WITH MY OWN. FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WITH MY OWN. AND SO DO MY FELLOW JEWISH OWN. AND SO DO MY FELLOW JEWISH FRIENDS AND FELLOW CHRISTIAN AND SO DO MY FELLOW JEWISH FRIENDS AND FELLOW CHRISTIAN FRIENDS, FEEL THAT ABOUT FRIENDS AND FELLOW CHRISTIAN FRIENDS, FEEL THAT ABOUT THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIPS WITH FRIENDS, FEEL THAT ABOUT THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR FAITH THEIR OWN RELATIONSHIPS WITH PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR FAITH COMMUNITIES. PEOPLE WITHIN THEIR FAITH COMMUNITIES. THE VIOLENCE IN MYANMAR COMMUNITIES. THE VIOLENCE IN MYANMAR AGAINST MUSLIMS TODAY IS NOT THE VIOLENCE IN MYANMAR AGAINST MUSLIMS TODAY IS NOT AT ALL, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT AGAINST MUSLIMS TODAY IS NOT AT ALL, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT IT AS BEING THE TEACHINGS OF AT ALL, AND I CANNOT ACCEPT IT AS BEING THE TEACHINGS OF THE BUDDHA. IT AS BEING THE TEACHINGS OF THE BUDDHA. I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WHAT THE BUDDHA. I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WHAT CHRISTIANS DID DURING THE I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT WHAT CHRISTIANS DID DURING THE INQUISITION OR IN MANY OTHER CHRISTIANS DID DURING THE INQUISITION OR IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THIS OWN INQUISITION OR IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THIS OWN COUNTRY, THIS COUNTRY, THE COUNTRIES, INCLUDING THIS OWN COUNTRY, THIS COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES, EXPRESSED THE COUNTRY, THIS COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES, EXPRESSED THE VALUES OF THE PRINCE OF UNITED STATES, EXPRESSED THE VALUES OF THE PRINCE OF PEACE, JESUS CHRIST. VALUES OF THE PRINCE OF PEACE, JESUS CHRIST. AND, THEREFORE, WE TODAY HAVE PEACE, JESUS CHRIST. AND, THEREFORE, WE TODAY HAVE TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE, AND, THEREFORE, WE TODAY HAVE TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE, BECAUSE MY REFRAMING THE TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE, BECAUSE MY REFRAMING THE DISCOURSE, WE CAN GAIN BECAUSE MY REFRAMING THE DISCOURSE, WE CAN GAIN TRACTION. DISCOURSE, WE CAN GAIN TRACTION. NOW, I LEAVE YOU WITH ONE TRACTION. NOW, I LEAVE YOU WITH ONE ANALOGY. NOW, I LEAVE YOU WITH ONE ANALOGY. WE HAVE HAD A GOVERNMENT ANALOGY. WE HAVE HAD A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IN THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE HAD A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IN THE UNITED STATES RECENTLY. SHUTDOWN IN THE UNITED STATES RECENTLY. YOU CAN INSIST THE DISCOURSE RECENTLY. YOU CAN INSIST THE DISCOURSE IS BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS YOU CAN INSIST THE DISCOURSE IS BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS. IS BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS. BUT WE KNOW FROM THE WAY OUR AND DEMOCRATS. BUT WE KNOW FROM THE WAY OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS THAT THE BUT WE KNOW FROM THE WAY OUR GOVERNMENT WORKS THAT THE MODERATES ON BOTH SIDES WHO GOVERNMENT WORKS THAT THE MODERATES ON BOTH SIDES WHO MAKE GOVERNMENT WORK. MODERATES ON BOTH SIDES WHO MAKE GOVERNMENT WORK. WE'VE HAD A SITUATION -- MAKE GOVERNMENT WORK. WE'VE HAD A SITUATION -- >> [APPLAUSE] WE'VE HAD A SITUATION -- >> [APPLAUSE] >> -- IN OUR COUNTRY WHERE >> [APPLAUSE] >> -- IN OUR COUNTRY WHERE OUT OF A GROUP OF 500 MEMBERS >> -- IN OUR COUNTRY WHERE OUT OF A GROUP OF 500 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THIS HOUSE AND OUT OF A GROUP OF 500 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THIS HOUSE AND SENATE, 50, YOU MIGHT CALL OF CONGRESS IN THIS HOUSE AND SENATE, 50, YOU MIGHT CALL THEM EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS, SENATE, 50, YOU MIGHT CALL THEM EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS, WERE ABLE TO SHUT THIS THEM EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS, WERE ABLE TO SHUT THIS GOVERNMENT DOWN. WERE ABLE TO SHUT THIS GOVERNMENT DOWN. IF WE INSIST THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOWN. IF WE INSIST THAT THE DISCOURSE MUST BE ONE BETWEEN IF WE INSIST THAT THE DISCOURSE MUST BE ONE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, DISCOURSE MUST BE ONE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. BUT IF WE CAN REFRAME THE SOLVE THIS PROBLEM. BUT IF WE CAN REFRAME THE DISCOURSE BETWEEN MODERATES BUT IF WE CAN REFRAME THE DISCOURSE BETWEEN MODERATES ON BOTH SIDES, AGAINST THE DISCOURSE BETWEEN MODERATES ON BOTH SIDES, AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS ON BOTH SIDES, ON BOTH SIDES, AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS ON BOTH SIDES, THEN WE HAVE HOPE OF EXTREMISTS ON BOTH SIDES, THEN WE HAVE HOPE OF GENERATING THE MIDDLE. THEN WE HAVE HOPE OF GENERATING THE MIDDLE. BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THE GENERATING THE MIDDLE. BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THE MIDDLE THAT GOVERNS. BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS THE MIDDLE THAT GOVERNS. IT'S ALWAYS THE MIDDLE THAT MIDDLE THAT GOVERNS. IT'S ALWAYS THE MIDDLE THAT RULES. IT'S ALWAYS THE MIDDLE THAT RULES. AND IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RULES. AND IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAD SUCH DIFFICULTY THAT 50 AND IF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAD SUCH DIFFICULTY THAT 50 EXTREMISTS COULD ELIMINATE HAD SUCH DIFFICULTY THAT 50 EXTREMISTS COULD ELIMINATE THE MODERATES, PEOPLE LIKE EXTREMISTS COULD ELIMINATE THE MODERATES, PEOPLE LIKE RICHARD LUGAR AND MANY OF THE MODERATES, PEOPLE LIKE RICHARD LUGAR AND MANY OF THOSE WHOM MANY OF YOU KNOW RICHARD LUGAR AND MANY OF THOSE WHOM MANY OF YOU KNOW WHO ARE WERE -- WHO ARE THOSE WHOM MANY OF YOU KNOW WHO ARE WERE -- WHO ARE REGARDED AS MODERATES OF THE WHO ARE WERE -- WHO ARE REGARDED AS MODERATES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOW MUCH REGARDED AS MODERATES OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT IT MUST BE REPUBLICAN PARTY, HOW MUCH MORE DIFFICULT IT MUST BE WITH A WORLDWIDE POPULATION MORE DIFFICULT IT MUST BE WITH A WORLDWIDE POPULATION OF 1.5 BILLION, THE BATTLE WITH A WORLDWIDE POPULATION OF 1.5 BILLION, THE BATTLE AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS WITHIN OF 1.5 BILLION, THE BATTLE AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS WITHIN OUR FAITH TRADITION IS AN AGAINST THE EXTREMISTS WITHIN OUR FAITH TRADITION IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, ONE THAT HAS OUR FAITH TRADITION IS AN IMPORTANT ONE, ONE THAT HAS TO BE DONE NOT ONLY BY IMPORTANT ONE, ONE THAT HAS TO BE DONE NOT ONLY BY MUSLIMS ALONE, MUSLIMS ON TO BE DONE NOT ONLY BY MUSLIMS ALONE, MUSLIMS ON CERTAIN FRONTS, BUT MUSLIMS MUSLIMS ALONE, MUSLIMS ON CERTAIN FRONTS, BUT MUSLIMS AND PEOPLE OF OTHER CERTAIN FRONTS, BUT MUSLIMS AND PEOPLE OF OTHER TRADITIONS ON COMMON FRONTS. AND PEOPLE OF OTHER TRADITIONS ON COMMON FRONTS. THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT I CAN TRADITIONS ON COMMON FRONTS. THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT I CAN SAY BUT I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS THERE'S MUCH MORE THAT I CAN SAY BUT I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS OPEN REMARK, AND THAT IS WHY SAY BUT I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS OPEN REMARK, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THE OPEN REMARK, AND THAT IS WHY WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THE IMPORTANCE OF A GLOBAL WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THE IMPORTANCE OF A GLOBAL COALITION OF MODERATES TO IMPORTANCE OF A GLOBAL COALITION OF MODERATES TO COMBAT THE EXTREMISTS ON ALL COALITION OF MODERATES TO COMBAT THE EXTREMISTS ON ALL OUR SIDES, TO IDENTIFY THE COMBAT THE EXTREMISTS ON ALL OUR SIDES, TO IDENTIFY THE ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT, OUR SIDES, TO IDENTIFY THE ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT, WHICH ARE POLITICAL, AND TO ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT, WHICH ARE POLITICAL, AND TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THEM WHICH ARE POLITICAL, AND TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THEM FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THEM FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR CHILDREN AND OUR FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN AND PEACE ON CHILDREN AND OUR GRANDCHILDREN AND PEACE ON THIS WORLD THAT WE LOVE. GRANDCHILDREN AND PEACE ON THIS WORLD THAT WE LOVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND MAY THIS WORLD THAT WE LOVE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL. >> [APPLAUSE] GOD BLESS YOU ALL. >> [APPLAUSE] >> AND I JUST WANT TO INVITE >> [APPLAUSE] >> AND I JUST WANT TO INVITE ONE MORE ROUND OF APPLAUSE >> AND I JUST WANT TO INVITE ONE MORE ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR ALL THREE OF THE ONE MORE ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR ALL THREE OF THE PANELISTS FOR THESE STRONG FOR ALL THREE OF THE PANELISTS FOR THESE STRONG OPENING STATEMENTS. PANELISTS FOR THESE STRONG OPENING STATEMENTS. >> [APPLAUSE] OPENING STATEMENTS. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THAT WAS VERY RICH. >> [APPLAUSE] >> THAT WAS VERY RICH. YOU JUST ALL THREE GAVE US A >> THAT WAS VERY RICH. YOU JUST ALL THREE GAVE US A LOT TO THINK ABOUT ALREADY. YOU JUST ALL THREE GAVE US A LOT TO THINK ABOUT ALREADY. BUT LET'S CHAT ABOUT SOME OF LOT TO THINK ABOUT ALREADY. BUT LET'S CHAT ABOUT SOME OF IT. BUT LET'S CHAT ABOUT SOME OF IT. IT SEEMS TO ME I'VE HEARD IT. IT SEEMS TO ME I'VE HEARD COMMON GROUND ALREADY IN THE IT SEEMS TO ME I'VE HEARD COMMON GROUND ALREADY IN THE OBVIOUS SENSE THAT ALL THREE COMMON GROUND ALREADY IN THE OBVIOUS SENSE THAT ALL THREE OF YOU CONDEMN VIOLENCE, OBVIOUS SENSE THAT ALL THREE OF YOU CONDEMN VIOLENCE, PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF OF YOU CONDEMN VIOLENCE, PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. ALL THREE OF YOU, I THINK, RELIGION. ALL THREE OF YOU, I THINK, ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE ALL THREE OF YOU, I THINK, ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS MUSLIMS AROUND MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO IDENTIFY AS MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD ARE NOT ENGAGED IN IDENTIFY AS MUSLIMS AROUND THE WORLD ARE NOT ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE. THE WORLD ARE NOT ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHERE VIOLENCE. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHERE THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE IS IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHERE THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE THERE IS SOME DIFFERENCE IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE BY A SMALL THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE ACTS OF VIOLENCE BY A SMALL MINORITY DEFINE THE FAITH OR ACTS OF VIOLENCE BY A SMALL MINORITY DEFINE THE FAITH OR ARE A PERVERSION AND A MINORITY DEFINE THE FAITH OR ARE A PERVERSION AND A HIJACKING OF THE FAITH. ARE A PERVERSION AND A HIJACKING OF THE FAITH. AND I WANT TO GO FIRST TO HIJACKING OF THE FAITH. AND I WANT TO GO FIRST TO YOU, AAYAN. AND I WANT TO GO FIRST TO YOU, AAYAN. WE JUST HEARD IMAM FEISAL YOU, AAYAN. WE JUST HEARD IMAM FEISAL MAKE A POINT, HE MADE AN WE JUST HEARD IMAM FEISAL MAKE A POINT, HE MADE AN ANALOGY TO EPISODES, MAKE A POINT, HE MADE AN ANALOGY TO EPISODES, HISTORICAL EPISODES OF ANALOGY TO EPISODES, HISTORICAL EPISODES OF WRONGDOING BY FAITH IN A MORE HISTORICAL EPISODES OF WRONGDOING BY FAITH IN A MORE FAMILIAR EXAMPLE IN RICHMOND, WRONGDOING BY FAITH IN A MORE FAMILIAR EXAMPLE IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA, CHRISTIAN FAITH. FAMILIAR EXAMPLE IN RICHMOND, VIRGINIA, CHRISTIAN FAITH. OF COURSE, HISTORICALLY, WARS VIRGINIA, CHRISTIAN FAITH. OF COURSE, HISTORICALLY, WARS HAVE BEEN FOUGHT BY OF COURSE, HISTORICALLY, WARS HAVE BEEN FOUGHT BY CHRISTIANS WITH EACH OTHER, HAVE BEEN FOUGHT BY CHRISTIANS WITH EACH OTHER, AND AGAINST OTHER GROUPS, AND CHRISTIANS WITH EACH OTHER, AND AGAINST OTHER GROUPS, AND YET, THERE IS NO TENDENCY IN AND AGAINST OTHER GROUPS, AND YET, THERE IS NO TENDENCY IN OUR CULTURE, THEREFORE, TO YET, THERE IS NO TENDENCY IN OUR CULTURE, THEREFORE, TO SAY THAT THERE IS OUR CULTURE, THEREFORE, TO SAY THAT THERE IS FUNDAMENTALLY SOMETHING WRONG SAY THAT THERE IS FUNDAMENTALLY SOMETHING WRONG AT THE ROOT OF CHRISTIANITY FUNDAMENTALLY SOMETHING WRONG AT THE ROOT OF CHRISTIANITY AND ITS DEFINITION. AT THE ROOT OF CHRISTIANITY AND ITS DEFINITION. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU WHY YOU AND ITS DEFINITION. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU WHY YOU MAKE THAT LEAP IN THE CASE OF I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU WHY YOU MAKE THAT LEAP IN THE CASE OF ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. MAKE THAT LEAP IN THE CASE OF ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. >> WHAT I DO IS I LISTEN TO ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. >> WHAT I DO IS I LISTEN TO THE MEN -- MOSTLY THEY ARE >> WHAT I DO IS I LISTEN TO THE MEN -- MOSTLY THEY ARE MEN, WHO INVOKE THE FOUNDING THE MEN -- MOSTLY THEY ARE MEN, WHO INVOKE THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF ISLAM AND MEN, WHO INVOKE THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS OF ISLAM AND FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM, AND DOCUMENTS OF ISLAM AND FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM, AND I LOOK AT WHAT THEY SAY, AND FOUNDING FATHER OF ISLAM, AND I LOOK AT WHAT THEY SAY, AND THEN I THINK, IS THAT IN THE I LOOK AT WHAT THEY SAY, AND THEN I THINK, IS THAT IN THE CURAN. THEN I THINK, IS THAT IN THE CURAN. FOR INSTANCE, AS YOU PROBABLY CURAN. FOR INSTANCE, AS YOU PROBABLY ALL KNOW, I'M VERY MUCH FOR INSTANCE, AS YOU PROBABLY ALL KNOW, I'M VERY MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE ALL KNOW, I'M VERY MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE SUBJECTION OF WOMEN SO WHEN I CONCERNED ABOUT THE SUBJECTION OF WOMEN SO WHEN I READ IN THE CURAN THAT MEN SUBJECTION OF WOMEN SO WHEN I READ IN THE CURAN THAT MEN ARE THE MAINTENANCE OF WOMEN READ IN THE CURAN THAT MEN ARE THE MAINTENANCE OF WOMEN AND THAT HUSBANDS ARE ALLOWED ARE THE MAINTENANCE OF WOMEN AND THAT HUSBANDS ARE ALLOWED TO HIT THEIR WIVES, I SEE -- AND THAT HUSBANDS ARE ALLOWED TO HIT THEIR WIVES, I SEE -- I LOOK AT THAT VERSE IN A WAY TO HIT THEIR WIVES, I SEE -- I LOOK AT THAT VERSE IN A WAY AND I THINK YOU CAN READ THAT I LOOK AT THAT VERSE IN A WAY AND I THINK YOU CAN READ THAT IN CONTEXT, IN HISTORICAL AND I THINK YOU CAN READ THAT IN CONTEXT, IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT, OR YOU CAN APPLY IT IN CONTEXT, IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT, OR YOU CAN APPLY IT TO OUR TIMES, AND THE MEN WHO CONTEXT, OR YOU CAN APPLY IT TO OUR TIMES, AND THE MEN WHO ARE DOING THAT, WHO ARE TO OUR TIMES, AND THE MEN WHO ARE DOING THAT, WHO ARE APPLYING ALL OF THESE VERSES ARE DOING THAT, WHO ARE APPLYING ALL OF THESE VERSES AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE APPLYING ALL OF THESE VERSES AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, NOT TO THE AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, NOT TO THE SEVENTH CENTURY, BUT TO OUR PROPHET MOHAMMED, NOT TO THE SEVENTH CENTURY, BUT TO OUR TIME, I FIND -- AND IT'S VERY SEVENTH CENTURY, BUT TO OUR TIME, I FIND -- AND IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE, BUT I FIND THEM TIME, I FIND -- AND IT'S VERY UNFORTUNATE, BUT I FIND THEM TO BE FAR MORE INFLUENTIAL IN UNFORTUNATE, BUT I FIND THEM TO BE FAR MORE INFLUENTIAL IN INSPIRING AND MOBILIZING THE TO BE FAR MORE INFLUENTIAL IN INSPIRING AND MOBILIZING THE YOUNG MEN TO SEE THE RELIGION INSPIRING AND MOBILIZING THE YOUNG MEN TO SEE THE RELIGION OF ISLAM THE WAY THEY SEE IT YOUNG MEN TO SEE THE RELIGION OF ISLAM THE WAY THEY SEE IT THAN THE WAY EITHER IMAM OF ISLAM THE WAY THEY SEE IT THAN THE WAY EITHER IMAM FEISAL SAYS HE SEES IT OR THAN THE WAY EITHER IMAM FEISAL SAYS HE SEES IT OR MAAJIK SEES IT. FEISAL SAYS HE SEES IT OR MAAJIK SEES IT. THAT'S A FACT. MAAJIK SEES IT. THAT'S A FACT. YOU LOOK AT AL-QAEDA, THAT'S A FACT. YOU LOOK AT AL-QAEDA, AL-QAEDA DOES NOT USE BIN YOU LOOK AT AL-QAEDA, AL-QAEDA DOES NOT USE BIN LADEN TO RECRUIT NEW PEOPLE. AL-QAEDA DOES NOT USE BIN LADEN TO RECRUIT NEW PEOPLE. AL-QAEDA USES THE CURAN AND LADEN TO RECRUIT NEW PEOPLE. AL-QAEDA USES THE CURAN AND PROPHET MOHAMMED TO RECRUIT AL-QAEDA USES THE CURAN AND PROPHET MOHAMMED TO RECRUIT YOUNG MEN. PROPHET MOHAMMED TO RECRUIT YOUNG MEN. SO WE HAVE TO STOP THIS YOUNG MEN. SO WE HAVE TO STOP THIS DENIAL, AND AT SOME POINT, SO WE HAVE TO STOP THIS DENIAL, AND AT SOME POINT, TRY AND ADDRESS THE DENIAL, AND AT SOME POINT, TRY AND ADDRESS THE INFLUENTIAL OF THESE TRY AND ADDRESS THE INFLUENTIAL OF THESE DOCUMENTS, AND THE WAY TO DO INFLUENTIAL OF THESE DOCUMENTS, AND THE WAY TO DO IT IS TO LOOK AT WHAT IS IN DOCUMENTS, AND THE WAY TO DO IT IS TO LOOK AT WHAT IS IN THERE, AND NOT DENY IT. IT IS TO LOOK AT WHAT IS IN THERE, AND NOT DENY IT. IT IS THE DENIAL THAT IS SO THERE, AND NOT DENY IT. IT IS THE DENIAL THAT IS SO INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING. IT IS THE DENIAL THAT IS SO INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING. >> LET ME ASK MAAJIK. INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING. >> LET ME ASK MAAJIK. YOU'VE IN A SENSE LIVED BOTH >> LET ME ASK MAAJIK. YOU'VE IN A SENSE LIVED BOTH SIDES OF THE EQUATION THAT YOU'VE IN A SENSE LIVED BOTH SIDES OF THE EQUATION THAT AAYAN WAS JUST DESCRIBING. SIDES OF THE EQUATION THAT AAYAN WAS JUST DESCRIBING. IN THE OPENING, I MISTAKENLY AAYAN WAS JUST DESCRIBING. IN THE OPENING, I MISTAKENLY REFERRED TO YOU AS A IN THE OPENING, I MISTAKENLY REFERRED TO YOU AS A PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND YOU REFERRED TO YOU AS A PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND YOU POINT OUT, I APOLOGIZE, YOU PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND YOU POINT OUT, I APOLOGIZE, YOU CLARIFIED THE NUANCE SHOULD POINT OUT, I APOLOGIZE, YOU CLARIFIED THE NUANCE SHOULD BE THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS A CLARIFIED THE NUANCE SHOULD BE THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS A MUSLIM. BE THAT YOU IDENTIFY AS A MUSLIM. BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MUSLIM. BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO YOU WERE WHEN YOU WERE A BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHO YOU WERE WHEN YOU WERE A RADICAL AND WHO YOU ARE NOW WHO YOU WERE WHEN YOU WERE A RADICAL AND WHO YOU ARE NOW SAYS WHAT ABOUT THAT RADICAL AND WHO YOU ARE NOW SAYS WHAT ABOUT THAT IDENTIFICATION WITH ISLAM SAYS WHAT ABOUT THAT IDENTIFICATION WITH ISLAM THAT YOU HAVE? IDENTIFICATION WITH ISLAM THAT YOU HAVE? WELL, I WASN'T RAISED AS WHAT THAT YOU HAVE? WELL, I WASN'T RAISED AS WHAT PEOPLE REFERRED TO AS A WELL, I WASN'T RAISED AS WHAT PEOPLE REFERRED TO AS A PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND MY PEOPLE REFERRED TO AS A PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND MY PATH TOWARDS THE ISLAMIST PRACTICING MUSLIM, AND MY PATH TOWARDS THE ISLAMIST IDEOLOGY AND PERHAPS THIS PATH TOWARDS THE ISLAMIST IDEOLOGY AND PERHAPS THIS TOUCHES ON SOMETHING THAT IDEOLOGY AND PERHAPS THIS TOUCHES ON SOMETHING THAT AAYAN HAS SPOKEN ABOUT, THE TOUCHES ON SOMETHING THAT AAYAN HAS SPOKEN ABOUT, THE PAST IDEOLOGY WASN'T ACTUALLY AAYAN HAS SPOKEN ABOUT, THE PAST IDEOLOGY WASN'T ACTUALLY A SMOOTH -- WITH THE CURAN, PAST IDEOLOGY WASN'T ACTUALLY A SMOOTH -- WITH THE CURAN, ALL THE TEACH RESPECT OF THE A SMOOTH -- WITH THE CURAN, ALL THE TEACH RESPECT OF THE PROPHET. ALL THE TEACH RESPECT OF THE PROPHET. TWO THINGS HAPPENED. PROPHET. TWO THINGS HAPPENED. I WAS BORN IN ESSEX IN THE TWO THINGS HAPPENED. I WAS BORN IN ESSEX IN THE U.K., AN AREA NEXT DOOR TO I WAS BORN IN ESSEX IN THE U.K., AN AREA NEXT DOOR TO LONDON, AND THE FIRST U.K., AN AREA NEXT DOOR TO LONDON, AND THE FIRST EXPERIENCE, IT WAS SEVERE AND LONDON, AND THE FIRST EXPERIENCE, IT WAS SEVERE AND VIOLENT RACISM DOMESTICALLY EXPERIENCE, IT WAS SEVERE AND VIOLENT RACISM DOMESTICALLY AND THE SECOND WAS THAT I WAS VIOLENT RACISM DOMESTICALLY AND THE SECOND WAS THAT I WAS WITNESSING THE GENOCIDE AND THE SECOND WAS THAT I WAS WITNESSING THE GENOCIDE UNFOLD IN BOZ KNEEA, WHICH WITNESSING THE GENOCIDE UNFOLD IN BOZ KNEEA, WHICH FOR US BORN AND RAISED UNFOLD IN BOZ KNEEA, WHICH FOR US BORN AND RAISED MUSLIMS WAS AROUND THE FOR US BORN AND RAISED MUSLIMS WAS AROUND THE CORNER, NEXT DOOR, AND MUSLIMS WAS AROUND THE CORNER, NEXT DOOR, AND TOUCHED US DEEPLY. CORNER, NEXT DOOR, AND TOUCHED US DEEPLY. THESE TWO, THEY MANIFESTED IN TOUCHED US DEEPLY. THESE TWO, THEY MANIFESTED IN THE FORM OF IDENTITY POLITICS THESE TWO, THEY MANIFESTED IN THE FORM OF IDENTITY POLITICS IN BRITAIN. THE FORM OF IDENTITY POLITICS IN BRITAIN. SO ISLAM SUDDENLY BECAME NOT IN BRITAIN. SO ISLAM SUDDENLY BECAME NOT ONLY A FORM OF OUR IDENTITY, SO ISLAM SUDDENLY BECAME NOT ONLY A FORM OF OUR IDENTITY, BUT A REVOLUTIONARY CALL FOR ONLY A FORM OF OUR IDENTITY, BUT A REVOLUTIONARY CALL FOR CHANGE. BUT A REVOLUTIONARY CALL FOR CHANGE. AND IN FACT, THE ONLY SERIOUS CHANGE. AND IN FACT, THE ONLY SERIOUS OCCASION I HAD TO STUDY THE AND IN FACT, THE ONLY SERIOUS OCCASION I HAD TO STUDY THE RELIGION WAS -- THIS HAPPENED OCCASION I HAD TO STUDY THE RELIGION WAS -- THIS HAPPENED AT 16, SO I JOINED THE GROUP RELIGION WAS -- THIS HAPPENED AT 16, SO I JOINED THE GROUP AT 16. AT 16, SO I JOINED THE GROUP AT 16. BY 24, I WAS IMPRISONED IN AT 16. BY 24, I WAS IMPRISONED IN EGYPT AFTER HAVING COFOUNDED BY 24, I WAS IMPRISONED IN EGYPT AFTER HAVING COFOUNDED THE GROUP IN THREE OTHER EGYPT AFTER HAVING COFOUNDED THE GROUP IN THREE OTHER COUNTRIES. THE GROUP IN THREE OTHER COUNTRIES. I BECAME THE EQUIVALENT OF A COUNTRIES. I BECAME THE EQUIVALENT OF A COMMUNIST FOR ISLAM. I BECAME THE EQUIVALENT OF A COMMUNIST FOR ISLAM. WE WERE EXPORT THANK COMMUNIST FOR ISLAM. WE WERE EXPORT THANK REVOLUTION. WE WERE EXPORT THANK REVOLUTION. THE ONLY OCCASION I HAD TO REVOLUTION. THE ONLY OCCASION I HAD TO STUDY THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES THE ONLY OCCASION I HAD TO STUDY THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES WAS AFTER I WAS IMPRISONED, STUDY THE ORIGINAL SCRIPTURES WAS AFTER I WAS IMPRISONED, AFTER I HAD LEARNED ARABIC, WAS AFTER I WAS IMPRISONED, AFTER I HAD LEARNED ARABIC, SO I SUPPOSE IT WAS A WAY OF AFTER I HAD LEARNED ARABIC, SO I SUPPOSE IT WAS A WAY OF ADDRESSING WHAT MY COLLEAGUE SO I SUPPOSE IT WAS A WAY OF ADDRESSING WHAT MY COLLEAGUE AAYAN HAS MENTIONED, WAS THAT ADDRESSING WHAT MY COLLEAGUE AAYAN HAS MENTIONED, WAS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PATH IN, AAYAN HAS MENTIONED, WAS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT THE PATH IN, FOR THE MAJORITY OF WESTERN IF YOU LOOK AT THE PATH IN, FOR THE MAJORITY OF WESTERN RADICALIZED INDIVIDUALS, IT'S FOR THE MAJORITY OF WESTERN RADICALIZED INDIVIDUALS, IT'S RARELY THROUGH SCRIPTURE AND RADICALIZED INDIVIDUALS, IT'S RARELY THROUGH SCRIPTURE AND THE RADICALIZATION RARELY RARELY THROUGH SCRIPTURE AND THE RADICALIZATION RARELY OCCURS IN MOSQUES. THE RADICALIZATION RARELY OCCURS IN MOSQUES. I NEVER FREQUENTED A MOSQUE. OCCURS IN MOSQUES. I NEVER FREQUENTED A MOSQUE. IT'S USUALLY THROUGH A FORM I NEVER FREQUENTED A MOSQUE. IT'S USUALLY THROUGH A FORM OF POLITICIZED IDEOLOGICAL IT'S USUALLY THROUGH A FORM OF POLITICIZED IDEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE THAT THEY ARRIVE AT OF POLITICIZED IDEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE THAT THEY ARRIVE AT THESE CONCLUSIONS AND IT'S DISCOURSE THAT THEY ARRIVE AT THESE CONCLUSIONS AND IT'S USUALLY A MIXTURE OF IDENTITY THESE CONCLUSIONS AND IT'S USUALLY A MIXTURE OF IDENTITY POLITICS, CAUSAL IDENTITY USUALLY A MIXTURE OF IDENTITY POLITICS, CAUSAL IDENTITY POLITICS, SOMETHING THAT POLITICS, CAUSAL IDENTITY POLITICS, SOMETHING THAT ISN'T ALIEN TO AMERICA. POLITICS, SOMETHING THAT ISN'T ALIEN TO AMERICA. THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAD ISN'T ALIEN TO AMERICA. THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAD THIS SAME DIVISION. THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT HAD THIS SAME DIVISION. WE HAD MARTIN LUTHER KINGS ON THIS SAME DIVISION. WE HAD MARTIN LUTHER KINGS ON THE ONE HAND BUT ON THE OTHER WE HAD MARTIN LUTHER KINGS ON THE ONE HAND BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THE BLACK PANTHERS AND THE ONE HAND BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THE BLACK PANTHERS AND NATION OF ISLAM THAT PULLED HAND, THE BLACK PANTHERS AND NATION OF ISLAM THAT PULLED UP THE IDENTITY POLITICS NATION OF ISLAM THAT PULLED UP THE IDENTITY POLITICS AGENDA AND WHAT IT MEANT TO UP THE IDENTITY POLITICS AGENDA AND WHAT IT MEANT TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN. AGENDA AND WHAT IT MEANT TO BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN. >> YOU'RE SAYING IT DOES NOT BE AFRICAN-AMERICAN. >> YOU'RE SAYING IT DOES NOT COME FLU THE SCRIPTURE. >> YOU'RE SAYING IT DOES NOT COME FLU THE SCRIPTURE. I WANT TO GO TO IMAM FEISAL COME FLU THE SCRIPTURE. I WANT TO GO TO IMAM FEISAL ON THAT. I WANT TO GO TO IMAM FEISAL ON THAT. I ASSUME YOU KNOW ABOUT ON THAT. I ASSUME YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE CURAN. I ASSUME YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT'S IN THE CURAN. YOU'VE WORKED AT THIS. WHAT'S IN THE CURAN. YOU'VE WORKED AT THIS. AND AAYAN IS MAKING THE YOU'VE WORKED AT THIS. AND AAYAN IS MAKING THE ARGUMENT IN HER OPENING AND AAYAN IS MAKING THE ARGUMENT IN HER OPENING STATEMENT THE ACTUAL ARGUMENT IN HER OPENING STATEMENT THE ACTUAL FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURE, WORDS STATEMENT THE ACTUAL FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURE, WORDS OF THE PROPHETS, NEED TO BE FOUNDATIONAL SCRIPTURE, WORDS OF THE PROPHETS, NEED TO BE REVISED AND REFORMED BECAUSE OF THE PROPHETS, NEED TO BE REVISED AND REFORMED BECAUSE THE VIOLENCE SHE WAS REVISED AND REFORMED BECAUSE THE VIOLENCE SHE WAS REFERRING TO SHE SAYS IS THE VIOLENCE SHE WAS REFERRING TO SHE SAYS IS INHERENT THERE. REFERRING TO SHE SAYS IS INHERENT THERE. I'M A LITTLE BIT WORRIED INHERENT THERE. I'M A LITTLE BIT WORRIED ABOUT ASKING THIS QUESTION, I'M A LITTLE BIT WORRIED ABOUT ASKING THIS QUESTION, BECAUSE NONE OF US IN THE ABOUT ASKING THIS QUESTION, BECAUSE NONE OF US IN THE AUDIENCE, OR FEW OF US, ARE BECAUSE NONE OF US IN THE AUDIENCE, OR FEW OF US, ARE IN A POSITION TO JUDGE ANY AUDIENCE, OR FEW OF US, ARE IN A POSITION TO JUDGE ANY SORT OF DUALING SCRIPTURE IN A POSITION TO JUDGE ANY SORT OF DUALING SCRIPTURE TYPE OF CONVERSATION. SORT OF DUALING SCRIPTURE TYPE OF CONVERSATION. SO I WANT TO DISCOURAGE THAT. TYPE OF CONVERSATION. SO I WANT TO DISCOURAGE THAT. BUT I WANT TO ASK IN THE SORT SO I WANT TO DISCOURAGE THAT. BUT I WANT TO ASK IN THE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL SENSE, IS IT BUT I WANT TO ASK IN THE SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL SENSE, IS IT ACCURATE THAT THERE IS OF FUNDAMENTAL SENSE, IS IT ACCURATE THAT THERE IS SUPPORT IN ANY WAY FOR THE ACCURATE THAT THERE IS SUPPORT IN ANY WAY FOR THE KIND OF VIOLENCE, OR COULD IT SUPPORT IN ANY WAY FOR THE KIND OF VIOLENCE, OR COULD IT BE INTERPRETED EASILY, IS IT KIND OF VIOLENCE, OR COULD IT BE INTERPRETED EASILY, IS IT AN EASY LIFTOFF FROM WHAT'S BE INTERPRETED EASILY, IS IT AN EASY LIFTOFF FROM WHAT'S IN THE CURAN TO TURN INTO A AN EASY LIFTOFF FROM WHAT'S IN THE CURAN TO TURN INTO A CAUSE FOR VIOLENCE. IN THE CURAN TO TURN INTO A CAUSE FOR VIOLENCE. >> THE CURAN IS A RECORD OF CAUSE FOR VIOLENCE. >> THE CURAN IS A RECORD OF 23 YEARS WORTH OF REVELATIONS >> THE CURAN IS A RECORD OF 23 YEARS WORTH OF REVELATIONS IN DIFFERENT CONTEXTS. 23 YEARS WORTH OF REVELATIONS IN DIFFERENT CONTEXTS. AND IN THE MOSQUE CENTURY, IN DIFFERENT CONTEXTS. AND IN THE MOSQUE CENTURY, THERE HAS BEEN A AND IN THE MOSQUE CENTURY, THERE HAS BEEN A DISCONTINUATION OF TRADITION THERE HAS BEEN A DISCONTINUATION OF TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP. DISCONTINUATION OF TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP. FROM THE VERY EARLY TIMES, A OF SCHOLARSHIP. FROM THE VERY EARLY TIMES, A GROUP OF SCHOLARS STUDIED THE FROM THE VERY EARLY TIMES, A GROUP OF SCHOLARS STUDIED THE CURAN, STUDIED THE DICTION OF GROUP OF SCHOLARS STUDIED THE CURAN, STUDIED THE DICTION OF THE PROPHET AND WHAT WE CALL CURAN, STUDIED THE DICTION OF THE PROPHET AND WHAT WE CALL SHARIA IS ACTUALLY A CREATIVE THE PROPHET AND WHAT WE CALL SHARIA IS ACTUALLY A CREATIVE WORK, A CREATIVE WORK WHICH SHARIA IS ACTUALLY A CREATIVE WORK, A CREATIVE WORK WHICH EVOLVED OVER SEVERAL WORK, A CREATIVE WORK WHICH EVOLVED OVER SEVERAL CENTURIES BY JURISTS WHO EVOLVED OVER SEVERAL CENTURIES BY JURISTS WHO DEVELOPED AN UNDERSTANDING OF CENTURIES BY JURISTS WHO DEVELOPED AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISLAM JURISPRUDENCE, AND DEVELOPED AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE ISLAM JURISPRUDENCE, AND DEVELOPED BOTH AN THE ISLAM JURISPRUDENCE, AND DEVELOPED BOTH AN UNDERSTANDING BASED UPON NOT DEVELOPED BOTH AN UNDERSTANDING BASED UPON NOT ONLY THE VERSIONS OF THE UNDERSTANDING BASED UPON NOT ONLY THE VERSIONS OF THE CURAN, THE TEACHINGS OF THE ONLY THE VERSIONS OF THE CURAN, THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHET, AND THE PRECEDENCE CURAN, THE TEACHINGS OF THE PROPHET, AND THE PRECEDENCE OF HIS COMPANIONS WHO BEGAN PROPHET, AND THE PRECEDENCE OF HIS COMPANIONS WHO BEGAN TO RULE. OF HIS COMPANIONS WHO BEGAN TO RULE. IN THE SECOND CALIPH, WHEN HE TO RULE. IN THE SECOND CALIPH, WHEN HE CONQUERED JERUSALEM, IN THE SECOND CALIPH, WHEN HE CONQUERED JERUSALEM, RECOGNIZED CHRISTIANS, AND CONQUERED JERUSALEM, RECOGNIZED CHRISTIANS, AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS RECOGNIZED CHRISTIANS, AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS FACT, EVEN, IT WAS OMER WHO MANY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THIS FACT, EVEN, IT WAS OMER WHO ACTUALLY INVITED JEWS TO TAKE FACT, EVEN, IT WAS OMER WHO ACTUALLY INVITED JEWS TO TAKE RESIDENCE IN JERUSALEM. ACTUALLY INVITED JEWS TO TAKE RESIDENCE IN JERUSALEM. SO THE COLLECTIVE HISTORY AND RESIDENCE IN JERUSALEM. SO THE COLLECTIVE HISTORY AND THIS TRADITION OF THE SO THE COLLECTIVE HISTORY AND THIS TRADITION OF THE CONTINUEOUS JURISPRUDENCE AND THIS TRADITION OF THE CONTINUEOUS JURISPRUDENCE AND UNDERSTANDING HAS BEEN TAUGHT CONTINUEOUS JURISPRUDENCE AND UNDERSTANDING HAS BEEN TAUGHT IN OUR TRADITION. UNDERSTANDING HAS BEEN TAUGHT IN OUR TRADITION. IN THE 20TH CENTURY, SOME IN OUR TRADITION. IN THE 20TH CENTURY, SOME VERY MAJOR THINGS HAPPENED IN THE 20TH CENTURY, SOME VERY MAJOR THINGS HAPPENED WHICH DISCONTINUED THIS VERY MAJOR THINGS HAPPENED WHICH DISCONTINUED THIS TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP AS WHICH DISCONTINUED THIS TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP AS BEING DOMINANT. TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP AS BEING DOMINANT. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FELT BEING DOMINANT. AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FELT THEY COULD READ THE CURAN AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO FELT THEY COULD READ THE CURAN DIRECTLY AND ARRIVE AT THEIR THEY COULD READ THE CURAN DIRECTLY AND ARRIVE AT THEIR CONCLUSIONS DEVELOPED NEW DIRECTLY AND ARRIVE AT THEIR CONCLUSIONS DEVELOPED NEW IDEAS WHICH ARE ALIEN TO THIS CONCLUSIONS DEVELOPED NEW IDEAS WHICH ARE ALIEN TO THIS TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP. IDEAS WHICH ARE ALIEN TO THIS TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP. IDEAS SUCH AS AN ISLAMIC TRADITION OF SCHOLARSHIP. IDEAS SUCH AS AN ISLAMIC STATE, WHICH IS AN INCOHERENT IDEAS SUCH AS AN ISLAMIC STATE, WHICH IS AN INCOHERENT CONCEPT, IDEAS WHICH ARE NOW STATE, WHICH IS AN INCOHERENT CONCEPT, IDEAS WHICH ARE NOW SPLITTING THE WHOLE MUSLIM CONCEPT, IDEAS WHICH ARE NOW SPLITTING THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD FROM MOROCCO TO SPLITTING THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD FROM MOROCCO TO INDONESIA, SUNNI AGAINST WORLD FROM MOROCCO TO INDONESIA, SUNNI AGAINST SUNNI AS WE SEE IN EGYPT AND INDONESIA, SUNNI AGAINST SUNNI AS WE SEE IN EGYPT AND TUNISIA, AROUND THE ISLAMIC SUNNI AS WE SEE IN EGYPT AND TUNISIA, AROUND THE ISLAMIC STATEMENT IT'S AN INCOHERENT TUNISIA, AROUND THE ISLAMIC STATEMENT IT'S AN INCOHERENT IDEA, BUT IT'S CREATING A LOT STATEMENT IT'S AN INCOHERENT IDEA, BUT IT'S CREATING A LOT OF DIVISIVENESS, AND IDEA, BUT IT'S CREATING A LOT OF DIVISIVENESS, AND UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE IN MANY OF DIVISIVENESS, AND UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE IN MANY IN THAT REGION. UNNECESSARY VIOLENCE IN MANY IN THAT REGION. THE CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, WE IN THAT REGION. THE CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DELINK THE THE CONCEPT OF, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO DELINK THE AUTHORITARIANISM OR EXTREMISM HAVE TO DELINK THE AUTHORITARIANISM OR EXTREMISM FROM RELIGION. AUTHORITARIANISM OR EXTREMISM FROM RELIGION. YOU CAN HAVE UNDER THE SOVIET FROM RELIGION. YOU CAN HAVE UNDER THE SOVIET UNION, WE HAD A MILITANT, YOU CAN HAVE UNDER THE SOVIET UNION, WE HAD A MILITANT, EXTREMIST, AUTHORITARIAN, UNION, WE HAD A MILITANT, EXTREMIST, AUTHORITARIAN, ATHEISM, WHICH WAS EXTREMIST, AUTHORITARIAN, ATHEISM, WHICH WAS PROSELYTIZED. ATHEISM, WHICH WAS PROSELYTIZED. IT DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISTS ARE PROSELYTIZED. IT DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISTS ARE YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, IT IT DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISTS ARE YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, IT DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISM IS YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, IT DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISM IS SOMETHING WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS DOESN'T MEAN ATHEISM IS SOMETHING WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS FUNDAMENTALLY ANTIAMERICAN. SOMETHING WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS FUNDAMENTALLY ANTIAMERICAN. MANY ARE ATHEIST OR AGNOSTIC. FUNDAMENTALLY ANTIAMERICAN. MANY ARE ATHEIST OR AGNOSTIC. SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WE'VE MANY ARE ATHEIST OR AGNOSTIC. SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WE'VE HAD AN INCREASING SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED, WE'VE HAD AN INCREASING AUTHORITARIANISM IN MANY HAD AN INCREASING AUTHORITARIANISM IN MANY COUNTRIES OF THE MUSLIM WORLD AUTHORITARIANISM IN MANY COUNTRIES OF THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY AND WHICH HAS BECOME COUNTRIES OF THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY AND WHICH HAS BECOME THE BANE OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY AND WHICH HAS BECOME THE BANE OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING BUT THE ARRIVAL OF THIS THE BANE OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING BUT THE ARRIVAL OF THIS MILITANT ISLAM IS REALLY A BUT THE ARRIVAL OF THIS MILITANT ISLAM IS REALLY A PRODUCT OF SOME HISTORICAL MILITANT ISLAM IS REALLY A PRODUCT OF SOME HISTORICAL NARRATIVE WHICH DEVELOPED IN PRODUCT OF SOME HISTORICAL NARRATIVE WHICH DEVELOPED IN THE LAST CENTURY. NARRATIVE WHICH DEVELOPED IN THE LAST CENTURY. THE ARRIVAL OF THE -- PEOPLE THE LAST CENTURY. THE ARRIVAL OF THE -- PEOPLE MAY NOT REMEMBER, PEOPLE OF THE ARRIVAL OF THE -- PEOPLE MAY NOT REMEMBER, PEOPLE OF MY AGE, OF THE MUHAJADEEN WAS MAY NOT REMEMBER, PEOPLE OF MY AGE, OF THE MUHAJADEEN WAS SOMETHING DEVELOPED BY MY AGE, OF THE MUHAJADEEN WAS SOMETHING DEVELOPED BY PAKISTAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOMETHING DEVELOPED BY PAKISTAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UNITED PAKISTAN IN CONJUNCTION WITH SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UNITED STATES TO FIGHT THE SOVIETS SAUDI ARABIA AND THE UNITED STATES TO FIGHT THE SOVIETS IN AFGHANISTAN. STATES TO FIGHT THE SOVIETS IN AFGHANISTAN. AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO IN AFGHANISTAN. AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ENCOURAGE TO GO AND AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE ENCOURAGE TO GO AND FIGHT WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE WERE ENCOURAGE TO GO AND FIGHT WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE EVEN CRIMINALS. FIGHT WERE PEOPLE WHO WERE EVEN CRIMINALS. YOU COULD SEND CRIMINALS TO EVEN CRIMINALS. YOU COULD SEND CRIMINALS TO GO AND FIGHT IN AFGHANISTAN. YOU COULD SEND CRIMINALS TO GO AND FIGHT IN AFGHANISTAN. MUHAJADEEN WERE VIPSS FROM GO AND FIGHT IN AFGHANISTAN. MUHAJADEEN WERE VIPSS FROM THE REAGAN WHITE HOUSE, THEY MUHAJADEEN WERE VIPSS FROM THE REAGAN WHITE HOUSE, THEY WERE WELCOMED BY REAGAN AND THE REAGAN WHITE HOUSE, THEY WERE WELCOMED BY REAGAN AND CHAMPIONED BY REAGAN. WERE WELCOMED BY REAGAN AND CHAMPIONED BY REAGAN. UNFORTUNATELY THE IDEOLOGY CHAMPIONED BY REAGAN. UNFORTUNATELY THE IDEOLOGY DEVELOPED TO FIGHT THE UNFORTUNATELY THE IDEOLOGY DEVELOPED TO FIGHT THE SOVIETS WERE NOT REINTEGRATED DEVELOPED TO FIGHT THE SOVIETS WERE NOT REINTEGRATED BACK INTO SOCIETY. SOVIETS WERE NOT REINTEGRATED BACK INTO SOCIETY. JUST LIKE IF YOU HAVE MORE BACK INTO SOCIETY. JUST LIKE IF YOU HAVE MORE VETERANS WENT INTO IRAQ, THEY JUST LIKE IF YOU HAVE MORE VETERANS WENT INTO IRAQ, THEY WERE NOT INTEGRATED AND VETERANS WENT INTO IRAQ, THEY WERE NOT INTEGRATED AND SUPPORTED -- WERE NOT INTEGRATED AND SUPPORTED -- >> MAY I TAKE YOUR POINT, THE SUPPORTED -- >> MAY I TAKE YOUR POINT, THE POINT YOU WERE MAKING, THE >> MAY I TAKE YOUR POINT, THE POINT YOU WERE MAKING, THE CENTER OF WHAT YOU WERE POINT YOU WERE MAKING, THE CENTER OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, MAKE IT BEYOND, THAT CENTER OF WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, MAKE IT BEYOND, THAT IMAM IS MAKING THE POINT THAT SAYING, MAKE IT BEYOND, THAT IMAM IS MAKING THE POINT THAT THE KIND OF MISBEHAVIOR, FOR IMAM IS MAKING THE POINT THAT THE KIND OF MISBEHAVIOR, FOR WANT OF A BETTER TERM, THAT THE KIND OF MISBEHAVIOR, FOR WANT OF A BETTER TERM, THAT IS EXPRESSED THROUGH ISLAM OF WANT OF A BETTER TERM, THAT IS EXPRESSED THROUGH ISLAM OF THE TYPES YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS EXPRESSED THROUGH ISLAM OF THE TYPES YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS A RATHER RECENT THE TYPES YOU'RE DESCRIBING IS A RATHER RECENT DEVELOPMENT, IN OTHER WORDS, IS A RATHER RECENT DEVELOPMENT, IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE WERE TO GO BACK 250 DEVELOPMENT, IN OTHER WORDS, IF WE WERE TO GO BACK 250 YEARS, WE COULDN'T SEE THE IF WE WERE TO GO BACK 250 YEARS, WE COULDN'T SEE THE MUSLIM WORLD ACTING IN THAT YEARS, WE COULDN'T SEE THE MUSLIM WORLD ACTING IN THAT WAY IN ANY FASHION, IN A SORT MUSLIM WORLD ACTING IN THAT WAY IN ANY FASHION, IN A SORT OF POLITICAL FASHION, WAY IN ANY FASHION, IN A SORT OF POLITICAL FASHION, AGGRESSIVE FASHION. OF POLITICAL FASHION, AGGRESSIVE FASHION. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? AGGRESSIVE FASHION. WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? >> WELL, I RESPECTFULLY WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT? >> WELL, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. >> WELL, I RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE. ISLAM WAS FOUNDED BY MOHAMMED DISAGREE. ISLAM WAS FOUNDED BY MOHAMMED WHO CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET, ISLAM WAS FOUNDED BY MOHAMMED WHO CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET, IN THE EARLY YEARS, MECCA. HE WHO CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET, IN THE EARLY YEARS, MECCA. HE EMPHASIZED WHAT WE NOW IN THE EARLY YEARS, MECCA. HE EMPHASIZED WHAT WE NOW DESCRIBED AS RELIGION, EMPHASIZED WHAT WE NOW DESCRIBED AS RELIGION, PRAYER, FASTING, CHARITY, DESCRIBED AS RELIGION, PRAYER, FASTING, CHARITY, TAKING CARE OF THE ORPHANS, PRAYER, FASTING, CHARITY, TAKING CARE OF THE ORPHANS, BUT THEN LATER, IN HIS TIME TAKING CARE OF THE ORPHANS, BUT THEN LATER, IN HIS TIME IN MEDINA, WHEN HE DEVELOPED, BUT THEN LATER, IN HIS TIME IN MEDINA, WHEN HE DEVELOPED, YOU KNOW, A FOLLOWING THAT IN MEDINA, WHEN HE DEVELOPED, YOU KNOW, A FOLLOWING THAT WAS LARGE ENOUGH TO ORGANIZE YOU KNOW, A FOLLOWING THAT WAS LARGE ENOUGH TO ORGANIZE A MILITIA, THEN THE WAS LARGE ENOUGH TO ORGANIZE A MILITIA, THEN THE REVELATIONS HE SAID HE WAS A MILITIA, THEN THE REVELATIONS HE SAID HE WAS RECEIVING FROM GOD CHANGED REVELATIONS HE SAID HE WAS RECEIVING FROM GOD CHANGED AND THEY BECAME MORE MILITARY RECEIVING FROM GOD CHANGED AND THEY BECAME MORE MILITARY AND HE BECAME MILITARISTIC, AND THEY BECAME MORE MILITARY AND HE BECAME MILITARISTIC, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE AND HE BECAME MILITARISTIC, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF ISLAM FROM THAT AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF ISLAM FROM THAT TIME IN MEDINA UP TO NOW, HISTORY OF ISLAM FROM THAT TIME IN MEDINA UP TO NOW, WHAT YOU SEE IS, FIRST OF TIME IN MEDINA UP TO NOW, WHAT YOU SEE IS, FIRST OF ALL, AN INTERTWINING OF WHAT YOU SEE IS, FIRST OF ALL, AN INTERTWINING OF POLITICS AND RELIGION. ALL, AN INTERTWINING OF POLITICS AND RELIGION. AND CONQUEST AFTER CONQUEST. POLITICS AND RELIGION. AND CONQUEST AFTER CONQUEST. AND WHEN THESE CONQUESTS WERE AND CONQUEST AFTER CONQUEST. AND WHEN THESE CONQUESTS WERE MADE, THEN GOD'S WORD WAS AND WHEN THESE CONQUESTS WERE MADE, THEN GOD'S WORD WAS APPLIED -- THERE WAS AN MADE, THEN GOD'S WORD WAS APPLIED -- THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO APPLY DEFINE LAW APPLIED -- THERE WAS AN ATTEMPT TO APPLY DEFINE LAW TO GOVERN. ATTEMPT TO APPLY DEFINE LAW TO GOVERN. AND YES, IN THE LAST 200 TO GOVERN. AND YES, IN THE LAST 200 YEARS, AFTER THE FALL OF THE AND YES, IN THE LAST 200 YEARS, AFTER THE FALL OF THE OT MAN -- OTTOMAN EMPIRE, YEARS, AFTER THE FALL OF THE OT MAN -- OTTOMAN EMPIRE, ISLAM HAS FOUND ITSELF ON THE OT MAN -- OTTOMAN EMPIRE, ISLAM HAS FOUND ITSELF ON THE DEFENSIVE. ISLAM HAS FOUND ITSELF ON THE DEFENSIVE. AND THE ANSWER TO THAT, TO DEFENSIVE. AND THE ANSWER TO THAT, TO SAY WESTERN ASENDENCEY AND AND THE ANSWER TO THAT, TO SAY WESTERN ASENDENCEY AND WESTERN IMPERIALISM IS WHERE SAY WESTERN ASENDENCEY AND WESTERN IMPERIALISM IS WHERE I THINK THE IMAM SORT OF WESTERN IMPERIALISM IS WHERE I THINK THE IMAM SORT OF BEGINS HISTORY AND WHERE I THINK THE IMAM SORT OF BEGINS HISTORY AND WHERE THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT BEGINS HISTORY AND WHERE THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT STRANDS AND TWO DIFFERENT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT STRANDS AND TWO DIFFERENT VOICES, ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE STRANDS AND TWO DIFFERENT VOICES, ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE SAYING WE NEED TO CONQUER THE VOICES, ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE SAYING WE NEED TO CONQUER THE WEST. SAYING WE NEED TO CONQUER THE WEST. THAT IS A SEPARATE RELIGION WEST. THAT IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM POLITICS, AS DID KEMAL THAT IS A SEPARATE RELIGION FROM POLITICS, AS DID KEMAL ATATURK IN TURKEY AND OTHERS FROM POLITICS, AS DID KEMAL ATATURK IN TURKEY AND OTHERS SAYING, NO, WE NEED TO -- YOU ATATURK IN TURKEY AND OTHERS SAYING, NO, WE NEED TO -- YOU KNOW, YOU CANNOT REALLY AB SAYING, NO, WE NEED TO -- YOU KNOW, YOU CANNOT REALLY AB MOSLIM AND CANNOT BE A MUSLIM KNOW, YOU CANNOT REALLY AB MOSLIM AND CANNOT BE A MUSLIM SOCIETY AOLS YOU ARE RULED MOSLIM AND CANNOT BE A MUSLIM SOCIETY AOLS YOU ARE RULED UNDER THE SHARIA. SOCIETY AOLS YOU ARE RULED UNDER THE SHARIA. THAT DEBATE, THAT DIALOGUE, UNDER THE SHARIA. THAT DEBATE, THAT DIALOGUE, CONFRONTATION, WHATEVER YOU THAT DEBATE, THAT DIALOGUE, CONFRONTATION, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, IS NOT OVER IN THE CONFRONTATION, WHATEVER YOU CALL IT, IS NOT OVER IN THE MUSLIM WORLD AND WE SEE THAT CALL IT, IS NOT OVER IN THE MUSLIM WORLD AND WE SEE THAT TODAY. MUSLIM WORLD AND WE SEE THAT TODAY. IN TURN EASHA -- IN TUNISIA, TODAY. IN TURN EASHA -- IN TUNISIA, TODAY IN EGYPT. IN TURN EASHA -- IN TUNISIA, TODAY IN EGYPT. IT'S NOT POLITICAL, IT'S NOT TODAY IN EGYPT. IT'S NOT POLITICAL, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FOUNDING IT'S NOT POLITICAL, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED SUPPORTED BY THE FOUNDING DOCUMENTS, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE HISTORY OF ISLAM TO DOCUMENTS, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY THE HISTORY OF ISLAM TO SAY THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S BY THE HISTORY OF ISLAM TO SAY THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING FROM THE DISTANT SAY THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING FROM THE DISTANT PAST. SOMETHING FROM THE DISTANT PAST. THE RECENT 100 YEARS. PAST. THE RECENT 100 YEARS. IT'S SOMETHINGRY DISAGREE ON. THE RECENT 100 YEARS. IT'S SOMETHINGRY DISAGREE ON. >> THAT'S PREPROS PUS. IT'S SOMETHINGRY DISAGREE ON. >> THAT'S PREPROS PUS. TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO -- >> THAT'S PREPROS PUS. TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO -- THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHAT I WAS TWO HUNDRED YEARS AGO -- THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHAT I WAS SAYING AND TO SUGGEST THAT IS THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHAT I WAS SAYING AND TO SUGGEST THAT IS A TRAVESTY. SAYING AND TO SUGGEST THAT IS A TRAVESTY. THE OTTOMANS, WHO WERE IN A TRAVESTY. THE OTTOMANS, WHO WERE IN POWER UNTIL 1923, 1925, WERE THE OTTOMANS, WHO WERE IN POWER UNTIL 1923, 1925, WERE A HAVEN. POWER UNTIL 1923, 1925, WERE A HAVEN. >> 1924, THE CALIPHATE WAS A HAVEN. >> 1924, THE CALIPHATE WAS ABOLISHED. >> 1924, THE CALIPHATE WAS ABOLISHED. >> THE OTTOMAN RULED UNTIL ABOLISHED. >> THE OTTOMAN RULED UNTIL 1923. >> THE OTTOMAN RULED UNTIL 1923. UNTIL THAT TIME, AND EVEN 1923. UNTIL THAT TIME, AND EVEN THEREAFTER, UNDER OTTOMAN UNTIL THAT TIME, AND EVEN THEREAFTER, UNDER OTTOMAN RULE, THEY RULED OVER TURKS, THEREAFTER, UNDER OTTOMAN RULE, THEY RULED OVER TURKS, GREEKS, OVER ARABING, OVER RULE, THEY RULED OVER TURKS, GREEKS, OVER ARABING, OVER BULGARIANS, OVER MUSLIMS, GREEKS, OVER ARABING, OVER BULGARIANS, OVER MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, YOU KNOW, BULGARIANS, OVER MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, YOU KNOW, JEWS USED TO COME FOR SAFE CHRISTIANS, JEWS, YOU KNOW, JEWS USED TO COME FOR SAFE HAVEN UNDER THE OTTOMAN RULE, JEWS USED TO COME FOR SAFE HAVEN UNDER THE OTTOMAN RULE, INDIA, MUSLIMS RULED OVER HAVEN UNDER THE OTTOMAN RULE, INDIA, MUSLIMS RULED OVER VAST NUMBERS OF HINDUS. INDIA, MUSLIMS RULED OVER VAST NUMBERS OF HINDUS. IF THE ATTEMPT, IF THE VAST NUMBERS OF HINDUS. IF THE ATTEMPT, IF THE INTENTION OF MUSLIMS FROM THE IF THE ATTEMPT, IF THE INTENTION OF MUSLIMS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WERE TO INTENTION OF MUSLIMS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING WERE TO ELIMINATE ANY OTHER RELIGION, VERY BEGINNING WERE TO ELIMINATE ANY OTHER RELIGION, THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER ELIMINATE ANY OTHER RELIGION, THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER RELIGIONS UNDER MUSLIM RULE. THERE WOULD BE NO OTHER RELIGIONS UNDER MUSLIM RULE. BUT UNTIL 60 YEARS AGO, RELIGIONS UNDER MUSLIM RULE. BUT UNTIL 60 YEARS AGO, ALEXANDRIA, IN MY COUNTRY, BUT UNTIL 60 YEARS AGO, ALEXANDRIA, IN MY COUNTRY, WAS A MAJORITY GREEK CITY. ALEXANDRIA, IN MY COUNTRY, WAS A MAJORITY GREEK CITY. WHAT HAS HAPPENED, THERE ARE WAS A MAJORITY GREEK CITY. WHAT HAS HAPPENED, THERE ARE SOME VERY MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL WHAT HAS HAPPENED, THERE ARE SOME VERY MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL MOVEMENTS THAT HAPPENED IN SOME VERY MAJOR FUNDAMENTAL MOVEMENTS THAT HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY AND A HALF. MOVEMENTS THAT HAPPENED IN THE LAST CENTURY AND A HALF. THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE, THE LAST CENTURY AND A HALF. THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE, THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE, THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE BASED UPON ISLAM, WHICH I THE IDEA OF A NATION STATE BASED UPON ISLAM, WHICH I MYSELF ARGUE ARE INCOHERENT BASED UPON ISLAM, WHICH I MYSELF ARGUE ARE INCOHERENT CONCEPTS. MYSELF ARGUE ARE INCOHERENT CONCEPTS. THESE THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED CONCEPTS. THESE THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED AS STRANDS OF -- THESE THINGS HAVE DEVELOPED AS STRANDS OF -- >> WHAT IS THE TRAVESTY, WHAT AS STRANDS OF -- >> WHAT IS THE TRAVESTY, WHAT IS PREPROS REDUCE? >> WHAT IS THE TRAVESTY, WHAT IS PREPROS REDUCE? >> -- PREPOSTEROUS. IS PREPROS REDUCE? >> -- PREPOSTEROUS. >> MY READING OF HISTORY >> -- PREPOSTEROUS. >> MY READING OF HISTORY STARTS 200 YEARS AGO. >> MY READING OF HISTORY STARTS 200 YEARS AGO. THAT IS ABSURD. STARTS 200 YEARS AGO. THAT IS ABSURD. >> LISTEN IT M -- LISTEN TO THAT IS ABSURD. >> LISTEN IT M -- LISTEN TO MAAJID. >> LISTEN IT M -- LISTEN TO MAAJID. >> BECAUSE OF THE WORK I DO MAAJID. >> BECAUSE OF THE WORK I DO AND THE CAUSE I HAVE, I SEE >> BECAUSE OF THE WORK I DO AND THE CAUSE I HAVE, I SEE MYSELF BETWEEN THESE TWO AND THE CAUSE I HAVE, I SEE MYSELF BETWEEN THESE TWO POSITIONS, IN THAT EVERYTHING MYSELF BETWEEN THESE TWO POSITIONS, IN THAT EVERYTHING DESCRIBED AS WRONG WITH THE POSITIONS, IN THAT EVERYTHING DESCRIBED AS WRONG WITH THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES, I DISAGREE DESCRIBED AS WRONG WITH THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES, I DISAGREE WITH 100 PERCENT, THAT THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES, I DISAGREE WITH 100 PERCENT, THAT THE DISCOURSE IS CURRENTLY WITH 100 PERCENT, THAT THE DISCOURSE IS CURRENTLY DOMINATED BY THOSE WHO DON'T DISCOURSE IS CURRENTLY DOMINATED BY THOSE WHO DON'T SEE ISLAM THE WAY FEISAL DOES DOMINATED BY THOSE WHO DON'T SEE ISLAM THE WAY FEISAL DOES , OR THE WAY PEOPLE SEE ISLAM THE WAY FEISAL DOES , OR THE WAY PEOPLE INTERPRET IT FROM FACEBOOK. , OR THE WAY PEOPLE INTERPRET IT FROM FACEBOOK. IF WE LOOK AT MIDDLE EAST, INTERPRET IT FROM FACEBOOK. IF WE LOOK AT MIDDLE EAST, SOUTH ASIA, WHEREVER IF WE LOOK AT MIDDLE EAST, SOUTH ASIA, WHEREVER MANAGEORITY MUSLIM COUNTRIES SOUTH ASIA, WHEREVER MANAGEORITY MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE, THERE ARE HUGE ISSUES MANAGEORITY MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE, THERE ARE HUGE ISSUES AROUND THE TOPICS. ARE, THERE ARE HUGE ISSUES AROUND THE TOPICS. AS I SAID, WHETHER IT'S THE AROUND THE TOPICS. AS I SAID, WHETHER IT'S THE POLITCYZATION OF THE FAITH AS I SAID, WHETHER IT'S THE POLITCYZATION OF THE FAITH AND THE GROUPS THAT EMANATE POLITCYZATION OF THE FAITH AND THE GROUPS THAT EMANATE FROM THAT STRAND, POLITICAL AND THE GROUPS THAT EMANATE FROM THAT STRAND, POLITICAL FORMS OF GROUPS RELATED TO FROM THAT STRAND, POLITICAL FORMS OF GROUPS RELATED TO THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, FORMS OF GROUPS RELATED TO THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, THROUGH TO THE REVOLUTIONARY THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, THROUGH TO THE REVOLUTIONARY GROUPS, WHICH I BELONGED TO, THROUGH TO THE REVOLUTIONARY GROUPS, WHICH I BELONGED TO, ALL THE WAY TO THE VIOLENT GROUPS, WHICH I BELONGED TO, ALL THE WAY TO THE VIOLENT GROUPS, THE TERRORIST GROUPS, ALL THE WAY TO THE VIOLENT GROUPS, THE TERRORIST GROUPS, SUCH AS AL-QAEDA, THEY ALL GROUPS, THE TERRORIST GROUPS, SUCH AS AL-QAEDA, THEY ALL COME FROM THE STRAND OF SUCH AS AL-QAEDA, THEY ALL COME FROM THE STRAND OF ISLAMISM THAT IS DESCRIBED IN COME FROM THE STRAND OF ISLAMISM THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE POLITIZATION OF ISLAM. ISLAMISM THAT IS DESCRIBED IN THE POLITIZATION OF ISLAM. THEN THERE ARE THE THE POLITIZATION OF ISLAM. THEN THERE ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS. THEN THERE ARE THE FUNDAMENTALS. THE GOVERNOR OF PUNJAB IN FUNDAMENTALS. THE GOVERNOR OF PUNJAB IN PAKISTAN WAS ASSASSINATED BY THE GOVERNOR OF PUNJAB IN PAKISTAN WAS ASSASSINATED BY HIS OWN BODYGUARD BECAUSE HE PAKISTAN WAS ASSASSINATED BY HIS OWN BODYGUARD BECAUSE HE ATTEMPT TO REFORM THE HIS OWN BODYGUARD BECAUSE HE ATTEMPT TO REFORM THE BLASPHEMY LAW IN THAT ATTEMPT TO REFORM THE BLASPHEMY LAW IN THAT COUNTRY. BLASPHEMY LAW IN THAT COUNTRY. THE SAD FACT IS THAT THE VERY COUNTRY. THE SAD FACT IS THAT THE VERY PEOPLE, THE VERY THAT HAVE THE SAD FACT IS THAT THE VERY PEOPLE, THE VERY THAT HAVE BEEN THE FEARSEST IN OPPOSING PEOPLE, THE VERY THAT HAVE BEEN THE FEARSEST IN OPPOSING -- FIERCEST IN OPPOSING THE BEEN THE FEARSEST IN OPPOSING -- FIERCEST IN OPPOSING THE STRAND IN PAKISTAN ALSO -- FIERCEST IN OPPOSING THE STRAND IN PAKISTAN ALSO PRODUCED THE ASSASSIN OF STRAND IN PAKISTAN ALSO PRODUCED THE ASSASSIN OF PUNJAB BECAUSE THEY ARE ULTRA PRODUCED THE ASSASSIN OF PUNJAB BECAUSE THEY ARE ULTRA CONSERVATIVE AND THE ONE PUNJAB BECAUSE THEY ARE ULTRA CONSERVATIVE AND THE ONE THING THAT FUELS THEIR FIRE CONSERVATIVE AND THE ONE THING THAT FUELS THEIR FIRE AND ANGERS THEM IS THING THAT FUELS THEIR FIRE AND ANGERS THEM IS QUESTIONING THE BLASPHEMY AND ANGERS THEM IS QUESTIONING THE BLASPHEMY LAW. QUESTIONING THE BLASPHEMY LAW. THAT'S THE SECOND STRAND I LAW. THAT'S THE SECOND STRAND I ADDRESS, WHICH IS THE THAT'S THE SECOND STRAND I ADDRESS, WHICH IS THE FUNDAMENTALIST STRAND. ADDRESS, WHICH IS THE FUNDAMENTALIST STRAND. IN OUR OWN ANALYSIS OF WHAT FUNDAMENTALIST STRAND. IN OUR OWN ANALYSIS OF WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, I WOULD AGREE IN OUR OWN ANALYSIS OF WHAT THE PROBLEM IS, I WOULD AGREE WITH HER, BUT THEN WHEN AAYAN THE PROBLEM IS, I WOULD AGREE WITH HER, BUT THEN WHEN AAYAN GOES BACK AND SAYS THE CAUSE WITH HER, BUT THEN WHEN AAYAN GOES BACK AND SAYS THE CAUSE FOR THAT PROBLEM IS SOMEHOW GOES BACK AND SAYS THE CAUSE FOR THAT PROBLEM IS SOMEHOW TO BE FOUND ONLY IN THE FOR THAT PROBLEM IS SOMEHOW TO BE FOUND ONLY IN THE RELIGION OF ISLAM, TO BE FOUND ONLY IN THE RELIGION OF ISLAM, EXCLUSIVELY -- RELIGION OF ISLAM, EXCLUSIVELY -- >> NO, NO, NO. EXCLUSIVELY -- >> NO, NO, NO. THE SUBJECT TONIGHT IS IS THE >> NO, NO, NO. THE SUBJECT TONIGHT IS IS THE RELIGION OF ISLAM ONE OF THE SUBJECT TONIGHT IS IS THE RELIGION OF ISLAM ONE OF PEACE OR ONE OF VIOLENCE. RELIGION OF ISLAM ONE OF PEACE OR ONE OF VIOLENCE. >> RIGHT. PEACE OR ONE OF VIOLENCE. >> RIGHT. >> SO THE FAITH IS -- IT -- >> RIGHT. >> SO THE FAITH IS -- IT -- IT IS NOT OTHER RELIGIONS. >> SO THE FAITH IS -- IT -- IT IS NOT OTHER RELIGIONS. I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT TO IT IS NOT OTHER RELIGIONS. I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT TO TALK ABOUT THE VIOLENCE, BUT I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT TO TALK ABOUT THE VIOLENCE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THE VIOLENCE, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO CONTINUE TO -- I DON'T THINK IT'S RIGHT TO CONTINUE TO -- >> MAAJID -- CONTINUE TO -- >> MAAJID -- >> LET HIM FINISH. >> MAAJID -- >> LET HIM FINISH. >> WE MUST BE CONSISTENT. >> LET HIM FINISH. >> WE MUST BE CONSISTENT. EITHER THE PROBLEM IS >> WE MUST BE CONSISTENT. EITHER THE PROBLEM IS RELIGION, PER SE, OR IF WE EITHER THE PROBLEM IS RELIGION, PER SE, OR IF WE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT, IF WE RELIGION, PER SE, OR IF WE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT, IF WE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT EVERY DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT, IF WE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT EVERY SINGLE RELIGION -- AND THERE DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT EVERY SINGLE RELIGION -- AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY THAT. SINGLE RELIGION -- AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY THAT. RICHARD DAWKINS IS ONE OF ARE PEOPLE THAT SAY THAT. RICHARD DAWKINS IS ONE OF THEM. RICHARD DAWKINS IS ONE OF THEM. HE IS AS CONSISTENT AGAINST THEM. HE IS AS CONSISTENT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY AS ISLAM, AND HE IS AS CONSISTENT AGAINST CHRISTIANITY AS ISLAM, AND ALL FAITHS. CHRISTIANITY AS ISLAM, AND ALL FAITHS. WE SAY OKAY, THE PROBLEM ALL FAITHS. WE SAY OKAY, THE PROBLEM ISN'T RELIGION, PER SE, THEN WE SAY OKAY, THE PROBLEM ISN'T RELIGION, PER SE, THEN IT MUST BE ABOUT THE WAY THAT ISN'T RELIGION, PER SE, THEN IT MUST BE ABOUT THE WAY THAT RELIGION IS INTERPRETED, AND IT MUST BE ABOUT THE WAY THAT RELIGION IS INTERPRETED, AND IF THAT'S THE POINT, THEN I RELIGION IS INTERPRETED, AND IF THAT'S THE POINT, THEN I DISAGREE WITH AAYAN THAT IF THAT'S THE POINT, THEN I DISAGREE WITH AAYAN THAT TODAY, TODAY, THERE ARE DISAGREE WITH AAYAN THAT TODAY, TODAY, THERE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES WITH THE TODAY, TODAY, THERE ARE SERIOUS CHALLENGES WITH THE WAY ISLAM IS INTERPRETED. SERIOUS CHALLENGES WITH THE WAY ISLAM IS INTERPRETED. I WISH MUSLIMS WERE DOING WAY ISLAM IS INTERPRETED. I WISH MUSLIMS WERE DOING MORE TO CHALLENGE THOSE I WISH MUSLIMS WERE DOING MORE TO CHALLENGE THOSE INTERPRETATIONS, BUT IN THE MORE TO CHALLENGE THOSE INTERPRETATIONS, BUT IN THE POLITICAL SENSE, BUT ALSO, IN INTERPRETATIONS, BUT IN THE POLITICAL SENSE, BUT ALSO, IN THE SOCIAL SENSE. POLITICAL SENSE, BUT ALSO, IN THE SOCIAL SENSE. WE NEED TO HEAR MORE VOICES THE SOCIAL SENSE. WE NEED TO HEAR MORE VOICES SPEAK OUT. WE NEED TO HEAR MORE VOICES SPEAK OUT. THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY SPEAK OUT. THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY THEY DON'T. THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY THEY DON'T. >> WHAT ARE THE REASONS? THEY DON'T. >> WHAT ARE THE REASONS? >> WELL, TWO OF US ON THIS >> WHAT ARE THE REASONS? >> WELL, TWO OF US ON THIS STAGE, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT >> WELL, TWO OF US ON THIS STAGE, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IMAM, FORGIVE ME, BUT I HOPE STAGE, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT IMAM, FORGIVE ME, BUT I HOPE I'M MISTAKEN, BUT AAYAN BOTH IMAM, FORGIVE ME, BUT I HOPE I'M MISTAKEN, BUT AAYAN BOTH HAVE DEATH THREATS ON OUR I'M MISTAKEN, BUT AAYAN BOTH HAVE DEATH THREATS ON OUR LIVES AND THE REASON FOR HAVE DEATH THREATS ON OUR LIVES AND THE REASON FOR THAT, LAST MONTH, AFTER THE LIVES AND THE REASON FOR THAT, LAST MONTH, AFTER THE KENYA MALL ATTACK -- THAT, LAST MONTH, AFTER THE KENYA MALL ATTACK -- >> WE KNOW IT'S A FACT THAT KENYA MALL ATTACK -- >> WE KNOW IT'S A FACT THAT YOU ARE BOTH UNDER DEATH >> WE KNOW IT'S A FACT THAT YOU ARE BOTH UNDER DEATH THREATS FOR SPEAKING THE WAY YOU ARE BOTH UNDER DEATH THREATS FOR SPEAKING THE WAY YOU'RE SPEAKING THAT RAISES THREATS FOR SPEAKING THE WAY YOU'RE SPEAKING THAT RAISES THE SPECTER OF THE NOTION OF YOU'RE SPEAKING THAT RAISES THE SPECTER OF THE NOTION OF ISLAM AS A RELIGION OF THE SPECTER OF THE NOTION OF ISLAM AS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, IT'S A VERY BAD ISLAM AS A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE, IT'S A VERY BAD HEADLINE. VIOLENCE, IT'S A VERY BAD HEADLINE. >> WELL, THAT'S A POINT, BUT HEADLINE. >> WELL, THAT'S A POINT, BUT OF COURSE -- >> WELL, THAT'S A POINT, BUT OF COURSE -- >> THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'RE OF COURSE -- >> THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'RE HERE, TO HEAR WHY THAT'S NOT >> THAT'S REALLY WHY WE'RE HERE, TO HEAR WHY THAT'S NOT TRUE. HERE, TO HEAR WHY THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> THAT'S A POINT THAT WOULD TRUE. >> THAT'S A POINT THAT WOULD RESONATE. >> THAT'S A POINT THAT WOULD RESONATE. LET'S REMEMBER ONE THING. RESONATE. LET'S REMEMBER ONE THING. IT TAKES ONE PERSON AND THEIR LET'S REMEMBER ONE THING. IT TAKES ONE PERSON AND THEIR DOG TO ISSUE A DEATH THREAT, IT TAKES ONE PERSON AND THEIR DOG TO ISSUE A DEATH THREAT, FRANKLY. DOG TO ISSUE A DEATH THREAT, FRANKLY. THE IT DOESN'T MEAN THE FRANKLY. THE IT DOESN'T MEAN THE MAJORITY WANT TO SHOOT US. THE IT DOESN'T MEAN THE MAJORITY WANT TO SHOOT US. IT MEANS THERE ARE GROUPS MAJORITY WANT TO SHOOT US. IT MEANS THERE ARE GROUPS OUT. IT MEANS THERE ARE GROUPS OUT. >> I TAKE THAT POINT OUT. >> I TAKE THAT POINT COMPLETELY. >> I TAKE THAT POINT COMPLETELY. THIS IS THE THING I KEEP COMPLETELY. THIS IS THE THING I KEEP ASKING MYSELF. THIS IS THE THING I KEEP ASKING MYSELF. IF YOU ALL AGREE, YOU ALL ASKING MYSELF. IF YOU ALL AGREE, YOU ALL WILL STIPULATE THE MAJORITY IF YOU ALL AGREE, YOU ALL WILL STIPULATE THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE NOT INVOLVED WILL STIPULATE THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS ARE NOT INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE OR INTERESTED IN OF MUSLIMS ARE NOT INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE OR INTERESTED IN BEING INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE, IN VIOLENCE OR INTERESTED IN BEING INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE, AND IF THE BEHAVIORS OF THE BEING INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE, AND IF THE BEHAVIORS OF THE PEOPLE OF A PARTICULAR FAITH AND IF THE BEHAVIORS OF THE PEOPLE OF A PARTICULAR FAITH IN MY MIND WOULD DEFINE THAT PEOPLE OF A PARTICULAR FAITH IN MY MIND WOULD DEFINE THAT FAITH, THEN WHY DOES THAT NOT IN MY MIND WOULD DEFINE THAT FAITH, THEN WHY DOES THAT NOT TELL US BY THE VIRTUE OF THE FAITH, THEN WHY DOES THAT NOT TELL US BY THE VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT MOST MUSLIMS DO NOT TELL US BY THE VIRTUE OF THE FACT THAT MOST MUSLIMS DO NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN FACT THAT MOST MUSLIMS DO NOT WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE THAT IT IS NOT A WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN VIOLENCE THAT IT IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? VIOLENCE THAT IT IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? YOU WALK LIKE A DUCK AND TALK RELIGION OF VIOLENCE? YOU WALK LIKE A DUCK AND TALK LIKE A DUCK. YOU WALK LIKE A DUCK AND TALK LIKE A DUCK. >> YOU WALK LIKE IT, YES. LIKE A DUCK. >> YOU WALK LIKE IT, YES. >> THE VIOLENT ONES ARE THE >> YOU WALK LIKE IT, YES. >> THE VIOLENT ONES ARE THE ONES THAT GET THE NEWS >> THE VIOLENT ONES ARE THE ONES THAT GET THE NEWS HEADLINES. ONES THAT GET THE NEWS HEADLINES. >> RIGHT. HEADLINES. >> RIGHT. >> I DON'T GET -- YOU DON'T >> RIGHT. >> I DON'T GET -- YOU DON'T GET ATTENTION BECAUSE OF >> I DON'T GET -- YOU DON'T GET ATTENTION BECAUSE OF BEING MODERATE OR PROMOTING GET ATTENTION BECAUSE OF BEING MODERATE OR PROMOTING PEACE. BEING MODERATE OR PROMOTING PEACE. YOU KNOW, YOU GET THE PEACE. YOU KNOW, YOU GET THE ATTENTION WHEN YOU COMMIT YOU KNOW, YOU GET THE ATTENTION WHEN YOU COMMIT ACTS OF VIOLENCE. ATTENTION WHEN YOU COMMIT ACTS OF VIOLENCE. >> WELL, ISAAC RABIN WAS SHOT ACTS OF VIOLENCE. >> WELL, ISAAC RABIN WAS SHOT BY A FANATIC JEWISH EXTREMIST >> WELL, ISAAC RABIN WAS SHOT BY A FANATIC JEWISH EXTREMIST AND NOBODY LEAPS FROM THAT BY A FANATIC JEWISH EXTREMIST AND NOBODY LEAPS FROM THAT THINKING THAT JUDAISM IS AN AND NOBODY LEAPS FROM THAT THINKING THAT JUDAISM IS AN EXTREMELY VIOLENT RELIGION, THINKING THAT JUDAISM IS AN EXTREMELY VIOLENT RELIGION, EVEN THOUGH THAT YOUNG MAN EXTREMELY VIOLENT RELIGION, EVEN THOUGH THAT YOUNG MAN BROUGHT -- ESSENTIALLY BRINGS EVEN THOUGH THAT YOUNG MAN BROUGHT -- ESSENTIALLY BRINGS THE TEXT TO HIS ACTIONS. BROUGHT -- ESSENTIALLY BRINGS THE TEXT TO HIS ACTIONS. YET, THAT LEAP IS OFTEN MADE THE TEXT TO HIS ACTIONS. YET, THAT LEAP IS OFTEN MADE AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND YET, THAT LEAP IS OFTEN MADE AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT. AND I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT. >> I WANT TO POINT OUT, WE THAT. >> I WANT TO POINT OUT, WE CAN'T -- >> I WANT TO POINT OUT, WE CAN'T -- >> I ACTUALLY WANT TO PUT THE CAN'T -- >> I ACTUALLY WANT TO PUT THE QUESTION TO IMAM FEISAL AND >> I ACTUALLY WANT TO PUT THE QUESTION TO IMAM FEISAL AND THEN I'LL COME TO YOU. QUESTION TO IMAM FEISAL AND THEN I'LL COME TO YOU. >> THAT LINK IS NOT MADE THEN I'LL COME TO YOU. >> THAT LINK IS NOT MADE BECAUSE AS CHRISTIANS AND >> THAT LINK IS NOT MADE BECAUSE AS CHRISTIANS AND JEWS, YOU GET IT. BECAUSE AS CHRISTIANS AND JEWS, YOU GET IT. YOU UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL JEWS, YOU GET IT. YOU UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL MOTIVATION BEHIND IT. YOU UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL MOTIVATION BEHIND IT. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS MOTIVATION BEHIND IT. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS DID NOT MAKE THAT LINK, THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS DID NOT MAKE THAT LINK, EITHER. DID NOT MAKE THAT LINK, EITHER. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS EITHER. THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS SEE THESE THINGS AS NOT THE VAST MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS SEE THESE THINGS AS NOT INTERPRETING THE LIG OF ISLAM SEE THESE THINGS AS NOT INTERPRETING THE LIG OF ISLAM OR SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF INTERPRETING THE LIG OF ISLAM OR SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF ISLAM, LIKE THE MAJORITY OF OR SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF ISLAM, LIKE THE MAJORITY OF JEWS WOULD NOT CONSIDER THE ISLAM, LIKE THE MAJORITY OF JEWS WOULD NOT CONSIDER THE ASSASSIN OF ISAAC RABIN AS JEWS WOULD NOT CONSIDER THE ASSASSIN OF ISAAC RABIN AS EXPRESSING THE JEWISH FAITH. ASSASSIN OF ISAAC RABIN AS EXPRESSING THE JEWISH FAITH. THIS IS VERY MUCH THE CASE EXPRESSING THE JEWISH FAITH. THIS IS VERY MUCH THE CASE WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE THIS IS VERY MUCH THE CASE WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MUSLIM WORLD. WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE MUSLIM WORLD. >> SO IT'S -- WHAT YOU ARE MUSLIM WORLD. >> SO IT'S -- WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING IS IT'S OUR -- >> SO IT'S -- WHAT YOU ARE REALLY SAYING IS IT'S OUR -- I'M TALKING COLLECTIVELY -- REALLY SAYING IS IT'S OUR -- I'M TALKING COLLECTIVELY -- OUR CULTURE HERE, IT'S POWER I'M TALKING COLLECTIVELY -- OUR CULTURE HERE, IT'S POWER IN NOT KNOWING ENOUGH ABOUT OUR CULTURE HERE, IT'S POWER IN NOT KNOWING ENOUGH ABOUT ISLAM OR MUSLIMS. IN NOT KNOWING ENOUGH ABOUT ISLAM OR MUSLIMS. >> IT'S ABOUT THE WAY ISLAM OR MUSLIMS. >> IT'S ABOUT THE WAY PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED. >> IT'S ABOUT THE WAY PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED. PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED BY PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED. PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED BY EVENTS. PERCEPTIONS ARE SHAPED BY EVENTS. VERY MUCH. EVENTS. VERY MUCH. FOR MOST PEOPLE. VERY MUCH. FOR MOST PEOPLE. JUST LIKE WHEN I'M IN MUSLIM FOR MOST PEOPLE. JUST LIKE WHEN I'M IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES, THEY SAY WHY IS JUST LIKE WHEN I'M IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES, THEY SAY WHY IS AMERICA ATTACKING ISLAM. COUNTRIES, THEY SAY WHY IS AMERICA ATTACKING ISLAM. THEY VIEW THAT. AMERICA ATTACKING ISLAM. THEY VIEW THAT. WHY? THEY VIEW THAT. WHY? BECAUSE WHEN SOME MAJOR IN WHY? BECAUSE WHEN SOME MAJOR IN THE MILITARY SAYS THERE IS A BECAUSE WHEN SOME MAJOR IN THE MILITARY SAYS THERE IS A CRUSADE AGAINST ISLAM, THAT THE MILITARY SAYS THERE IS A CRUSADE AGAINST ISLAM, THAT GETS A HEADLINE IN THE MUSLIM CRUSADE AGAINST ISLAM, THAT GETS A HEADLINE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, SO THAT SHAPES GETS A HEADLINE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, SO THAT SHAPES PERCEPTION. WORLD, SO THAT SHAPES PERCEPTION. >> IS IT THE VIEW IN THE PERCEPTION. >> IS IT THE VIEW IN THE MUSLIM WORLD THAT THIS >> IS IT THE VIEW IN THE MUSLIM WORLD THAT THIS COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY, IS MUSLIM WORLD THAT THIS COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY, IS DEDICATED TO DESTROYING COUNTRY, OUR COUNTRY, IS DEDICATED TO DESTROYING ISLAM? DEDICATED TO DESTROYING ISLAM? >> THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF ISLAM? >> THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY, >> THERE ARE LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY, BASED UPON THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT WAY, BASED UPON THESE TYPES OF HEADLINES. BASED UPON THESE TYPES OF HEADLINES. THIS IS WHY I SAID THAT THE HEADLINES. THIS IS WHY I SAID THAT THE CYCLE OF EXTREMIST ACTIONS THIS IS WHY I SAID THAT THE CYCLE OF EXTREMIST ACTIONS AND EXTREMIST STATEMENTS GET CYCLE OF EXTREMIST ACTIONS AND EXTREMIST STATEMENTS GET THE BANNER HEADLINES IN EACH AND EXTREMIST STATEMENTS GET THE BANNER HEADLINES IN EACH COUNTRY. THE BANNER HEADLINES IN EACH COUNTRY. SO WHEN AN AYATOLLAH IN IRAN, COUNTRY. SO WHEN AN AYATOLLAH IN IRAN, SAYS DEATH TO AMERICA, THIS SO WHEN AN AYATOLLAH IN IRAN, SAYS DEATH TO AMERICA, THIS SCARES AMERICANS, AND SAYS DEATH TO AMERICA, THIS SCARES AMERICANS, AND AMERICANS GET THIS IMAGE THAT SCARES AMERICANS, AND AMERICANS GET THIS IMAGE THAT THE IRANIANS ARE OUT TO AMERICANS GET THIS IMAGE THAT THE IRANIANS ARE OUT TO DESTROY, AND ISLAM IS ABOUT THE IRANIANS ARE OUT TO DESTROY, AND ISLAM IS ABOUT DESTROYING AMERICA. DESTROY, AND ISLAM IS ABOUT DESTROYING AMERICA. THEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A DESTROYING AMERICA. THEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A MILITARY GENERAL WHO SAYS THEN YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, A MILITARY GENERAL WHO SAYS THIS, THEN SOMEBODY COMMITS MILITARY GENERAL WHO SAYS THIS, THEN SOMEBODY COMMITS AN ACT OF VIOLENCE. THIS, THEN SOMEBODY COMMITS AN ACT OF VIOLENCE. THAT GETS THE HEADLINES OVER AN ACT OF VIOLENCE. THAT GETS THE HEADLINES OVER HERE. THAT GETS THE HEADLINES OVER HERE. THEN YOU HAVE A PASTOR WHO HERE. THEN YOU HAVE A PASTOR WHO HAS ONLY 30 PEOPLE IN FLORIDA THEN YOU HAVE A PASTOR WHO HAS ONLY 30 PEOPLE IN FLORIDA SAYING BURN THE CURAN AND IT HAS ONLY 30 PEOPLE IN FLORIDA SAYING BURN THE CURAN AND IT RESULTS IN ACTS OF VIOLENCE. SAYING BURN THE CURAN AND IT RESULTS IN ACTS OF VIOLENCE. SO THE MEDIA, GRABBING THESE RESULTS IN ACTS OF VIOLENCE. SO THE MEDIA, GRABBING THESE EXTREMIST EVENTS, HELPS SO THE MEDIA, GRABBING THESE EXTREMIST EVENTS, HELPS SHAPES PERCEPTIONS AND CREATE EXTREMIST EVENTS, HELPS SHAPES PERCEPTIONS AND CREATE THIS SENSE OF RESRULGS THAT SHAPES PERCEPTIONS AND CREATE THIS SENSE OF RESRULGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, AND THE THIS SENSE OF RESRULGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE, AND THE TENDENCY, THEN, TO JUST WHITE PEOPLE HAVE, AND THE TENDENCY, THEN, TO JUST WHITE WASH. TENDENCY, THEN, TO JUST WHITE WASH. AND TO SAY, WELL, AMERICA IS WASH. AND TO SAY, WELL, AMERICA IS AGAINST US OR THE WEST IS AND TO SAY, WELL, AMERICA IS AGAINST US OR THE WEST IS AGAINST US. AGAINST US OR THE WEST IS AGAINST US. >> YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. AGAINST US. >> YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. GO AHEAD. >> YOU'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. GO AHEAD. >> I'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. GO AHEAD. >> I'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. THANK YOU. >> I'VE BEEN VERY PATIENT. THANK YOU. >> SO IS IT THE PACKAGING? THANK YOU. >> SO IS IT THE PACKAGING? THE MARKETING? >> SO IS IT THE PACKAGING? THE MARKETING? OR IS IT THE SUBSTANCE? THE MARKETING? OR IS IT THE SUBSTANCE? >> IN AMERICA, IN THE OR IS IT THE SUBSTANCE? >> IN AMERICA, IN THE AMERICAN WORLD, THERE ARE >> IN AMERICA, IN THE AMERICAN WORLD, THERE ARE CONTINUOUS DEBATES ABOUT THE AMERICAN WORLD, THERE ARE CONTINUOUS DEBATES ABOUT THE PLACE OF MUSLIMS. CONTINUOUS DEBATES ABOUT THE PLACE OF MUSLIMS. ANDOUS, AMONGST MUSLIMS IN PLACE OF MUSLIMS. ANDOUS, AMONGST MUSLIMS IN THE WEST AND AMONGST MUSLIMS ANDOUS, AMONGST MUSLIMS IN THE WEST AND AMONGST MUSLIMS OUTSIDE OF THE WEST, THERE IS THE WEST AND AMONGST MUSLIMS OUTSIDE OF THE WEST, THERE IS THIS GENERAL BELIEF THAT OUTSIDE OF THE WEST, THERE IS THIS GENERAL BELIEF THAT ISLAM IS UNDER SEIGE AND THAT THIS GENERAL BELIEF THAT ISLAM IS UNDER SEIGE AND THAT AMERICANS WANT TO DESTROY ISLAM IS UNDER SEIGE AND THAT AMERICANS WANT TO DESTROY ISLAM. AMERICANS WANT TO DESTROY ISLAM. THAT IS PERCEPTION, BECAUSE ISLAM. THAT IS PERCEPTION, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS. THAT IS PERCEPTION, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS. NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ISLAM, IT'S NOT SUPPORTED BY FACTS. NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ISLAM, LOOK AT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES NOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ISLAM, LOOK AT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES LIKE PAKISTAN, THEY HAVE LOOK AT ISLAMIC COUNTRIES LIKE PAKISTAN, THEY HAVE BLASPHEMY LAWS, THE LIKE PAKISTAN, THEY HAVE BLASPHEMY LAWS, THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN IS BLASPHEMY LAWS, THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN IS DERIVED FROM THE CURAN OR THE CONSTITUTION OF PAKISTAN IS DERIVED FROM THE CURAN OR THE HADITH. DERIVED FROM THE CURAN OR THE HADITH. THE CONSTITUTION OF IRAN IS HADITH. THE CONSTITUTION OF IRAN IS ISLAMIC. THE CONSTITUTION OF IRAN IS ISLAMIC. THE CONSTITUTION OF SAUDI ISLAMIC. THE CONSTITUTION OF SAUDI ARABIA IS THE CURAN. THE CONSTITUTION OF SAUDI ARABIA IS THE CURAN. YOU LOOK AT MUSLIMS LIKE THE ARABIA IS THE CURAN. YOU LOOK AT MUSLIMS LIKE THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND YOU LOOK AT MUSLIMS LIKE THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND ISLAMISTS IN THE COUNTRIES MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AND ISLAMISTS IN THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE SPRUNG UP AFTER THE ISLAMISTS IN THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE SPRUNG UP AFTER THE ARAB SPRING, AND THESE THAT HAVE SPRUNG UP AFTER THE ARAB SPRING, AND THESE MOVEMENTS WANT TO ORGANIZE ARAB SPRING, AND THESE MOVEMENTS WANT TO ORGANIZE SOCIETY ALONG RELIGIOUS MOVEMENTS WANT TO ORGANIZE SOCIETY ALONG RELIGIOUS LINES. SOCIETY ALONG RELIGIOUS LINES. THIS CONFLATION BETWEEN LINES. THIS CONFLATION BETWEEN POLITICS AND RELIGION, THIS THIS CONFLATION BETWEEN POLITICS AND RELIGION, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M POLITICS AND RELIGION, THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M IMAGINING. IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M IMAGINING. IT'S NOT A PACKAGING PROBLEM. IMAGINING. IT'S NOT A PACKAGING PROBLEM. IT'S SUBSTANTIAL. IT'S NOT A PACKAGING PROBLEM. IT'S SUBSTANTIAL. WHEN YOU GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF IT'S SUBSTANTIAL. WHEN YOU GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF THE MURDERER OF ISAAC RABIN, WHEN YOU GIVE THE EXAMPLE OF THE MURDERER OF ISAAC RABIN, HE IS THE FRINGE. THE MURDERER OF ISAAC RABIN, HE IS THE FRINGE. THE STATE OF ISRAEL IS NOT -- HE IS THE FRINGE. THE STATE OF ISRAEL IS NOT -- >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. THE STATE OF ISRAEL IS NOT -- >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. THE CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS HERE >> AND HE IS IN JAIL. THE CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO TAKE THE CHRISTIAN EXTREMISTS HERE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO TAKE THE BIBLE AND THEN USE IT TO IN THE UNITED STATES WHO TAKE THE BIBLE AND THEN USE IT TO KILL PEOPLE AND HURT PEOPLE, THE BIBLE AND THEN USE IT TO KILL PEOPLE AND HURT PEOPLE, THEY ARE THE FRINGE. KILL PEOPLE AND HURT PEOPLE, THEY ARE THE FRINGE. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT WE THEY ARE THE FRINGE. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN MUSLIM BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES IS THAT THE PEOPLE ARE SEEING IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THEY SHOULD BE COUNTRIES IS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT THEY SHOULD BE GOVERNED UNDER THE SHARIA LAW WHO FEEL THAT THEY SHOULD BE GOVERNED UNDER THE SHARIA LAW ARE NOT THE FRINGE. GOVERNED UNDER THE SHARIA LAW ARE NOT THE FRINGE. IN SOME COUNTRIES, THEY ARE ARE NOT THE FRINGE. IN SOME COUNTRIES, THEY ARE MAINSTREAM. IN SOME COUNTRIES, THEY ARE MAINSTREAM. IN SOME CUBS -- COUNTRIES, MAINSTREAM. IN SOME CUBS -- COUNTRIES, THEY ARE A MINORITY. IN SOME CUBS -- COUNTRIES, THEY ARE A MINORITY. BUT IN ANY CASE, IT'S A HUGE THEY ARE A MINORITY. BUT IN ANY CASE, IT'S A HUGE OBSTACLE THAT CANNOT BE BUT IN ANY CASE, IT'S A HUGE OBSTACLE THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED, AND ISLAM CAN BECOME OBSTACLE THAT CANNOT BE IGNORED, AND ISLAM CAN BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE IF IGNORED, AND ISLAM CAN BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE IF POLITICS IS DIVORCED FROM A RELIGION OF PEACE IF POLITICS IS DIVORCED FROM RELIGION. POLITICS IS DIVORCED FROM RELIGION. IF SCIENCE IS DIVORCED FROM RELIGION. IF SCIENCE IS DIVORCED FROM RELIGION. IF SCIENCE IS DIVORCED FROM RELIGION. >> [APPLAUSE] RELIGION. >> [APPLAUSE] >> FOR THAT, WE NEED ARE >> [APPLAUSE] >> FOR THAT, WE NEED ARE REFORMATION. >> FOR THAT, WE NEED ARE REFORMATION. >> ONE THING THAT I AGREE REFORMATION. >> ONE THING THAT I AGREE WITH, WITH THE CONCLUSION, >> ONE THING THAT I AGREE WITH, WITH THE CONCLUSION, SORT OF THE UNDERSTANDING OF WITH, WITH THE CONCLUSION, SORT OF THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION, BUT HERE'S MY SORT OF THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SITUATION, BUT HERE'S MY ISSUE. THE SITUATION, BUT HERE'S MY ISSUE. APART FROM THE FACTUAL ISSUE. APART FROM THE FACTUAL INACCURACIES, JUST AS A POINT APART FROM THE FACTUAL INACCURACIES, JUST AS A POINT OF FACT, THE BLASPHEMY LAW IN INACCURACIES, JUST AS A POINT OF FACT, THE BLASPHEMY LAW IN PAKISTAN, IS THE BRITISH OF FACT, THE BLASPHEMY LAW IN PAKISTAN, IS THE BRITISH INSTITUTED COLONIAL ERA PAKISTAN, IS THE BRITISH INSTITUTED COLONIAL ERA LEGACY UNDER THE BRITISH RAJ. INSTITUTED COLONIAL ERA LEGACY UNDER THE BRITISH RAJ. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT ONE LEGACY UNDER THE BRITISH RAJ. THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT ONE CAN'T FIND SUPPORT FOR IT THAT'S NOT TO SAY THAT ONE CAN'T FIND SUPPORT FOR IT WITHIN ISLAMIC TEST TEXT. CAN'T FIND SUPPORT FOR IT WITHIN ISLAMIC TEST TEXT. THAT'S A CORRECTION OF POINT WITHIN ISLAMIC TEST TEXT. THAT'S A CORRECTION OF POINT OF FACT. THAT'S A CORRECTION OF POINT OF FACT. BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT THERE OF FACT. BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE ISLAMISTS OUT THERE THAT BUT I DO ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE ISLAMISTS OUT THERE THAT FIND SUPPORT FOR IT WITHIN ARE ISLAMISTS OUT THERE THAT FIND SUPPORT FOR IT WITHIN THE ISLAMIC TEXT. FIND SUPPORT FOR IT WITHIN THE ISLAMIC TEXT. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THE ISLAMIC TEXT. BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THIS POINT ONLY BECAUSE IT BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THIS POINT ONLY BECAUSE IT TOUCHES ON WHAT IMAM FEISAL THIS POINT ONLY BECAUSE IT TOUCHES ON WHAT IMAM FEISAL SAID WHICH IS THE MIXTURE OF TOUCHES ON WHAT IMAM FEISAL SAID WHICH IS THE MIXTURE OF COLONIAL LEGACY AND ISLAMISM SAID WHICH IS THE MIXTURE OF COLONIAL LEGACY AND ISLAMISM IN THIS CONCOCTION, IS PART COLONIAL LEGACY AND ISLAMISM IN THIS CONCOCTION, IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING IN THIS CONCOCTION, IS PART OF THE PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING WITH. OF THE PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING WITH. HOWEVER, ON THE SECOND POINT, WITH. HOWEVER, ON THE SECOND POINT, GOING FORWARD, IF WE ARE ABLE HOWEVER, ON THE SECOND POINT, GOING FORWARD, IF WE ARE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THAT ISLAM CAN GOING FORWARD, IF WE ARE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THAT ISLAM CAN BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, TO RECOGNIZE THAT ISLAM CAN BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, IF IT HAS A REFORMATION, THEN BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, IF IT HAS A REFORMATION, THEN IT STRIKES ME THAT IF IT HAS A REFORMATION, THEN IT STRIKES ME THAT ESSENTIALLY -- WHICH I AGREE IT STRIKES ME THAT ESSENTIALLY -- WHICH I AGREE WITH AS WELL -- THAT ESSENTIALLY -- WHICH I AGREE WITH AS WELL -- THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT MEANS WITH AS WELL -- THAT ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT MEANS THEN IS ISLAM ISN'T ACTUALLY ESSENTIALLY WHAT IT MEANS THEN IS ISLAM ISN'T ACTUALLY A RELIGION OF ANYTHING, THEN IS ISLAM ISN'T ACTUALLY A RELIGION OF ANYTHING, WHETHER WAR OR PEACE. A RELIGION OF ANYTHING, WHETHER WAR OR PEACE. IT'S A RELIGION. WHETHER WAR OR PEACE. IT'S A RELIGION. IF IT CAN HAVE A REFORMATION, IT'S A RELIGION. IF IT CAN HAVE A REFORMATION, BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, IF IT CAN HAVE A REFORMATION, BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, IT MEANS IT'S OPEN TO BECOME A RELIGION OF PEACE, IT MEANS IT'S OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND THE ONLY IT MEANS IT'S OPEN TO INTERPRETATION AND THE ONLY PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING WITH IS INTERPRETATION AND THE ONLY PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING WITH IS MODERN MUSLIMS ARE PROBLEM WE'RE DEALING WITH IS MODERN MUSLIMS ARE INTERPRETING IN THAT WAY, MODERN MUSLIMS ARE INTERPRETING IN THAT WAY, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT I'M INTERPRETING IN THAT WAY, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, TODAY A. LOT WHICH IS ACTUALLY WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, TODAY A. LOT OF ACTIVE MUSLIMS DOMINATING TRYING TO SAY, TODAY A. LOT OF ACTIVE MUSLIMS DOMINATING THE DISCOURSE IN THE MIDDLE OF ACTIVE MUSLIMS DOMINATING THE DISCOURSE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ARE INTERPRETING A WAY THE DISCOURSE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ARE INTERPRETING A WAY THAT NO ONE ONLY PANEL, ON EAST ARE INTERPRETING A WAY THAT NO ONE ONLY PANEL, ON THIS STAGE WANT IT IS TO BE THAT NO ONE ONLY PANEL, ON THIS STAGE WANT IT IS TO BE INTERPRETED BUT THE MERE FACT THIS STAGE WANT IT IS TO BE INTERPRETED BUT THE MERE FACT THAT WE ENTERTAIN THE INTERPRETED BUT THE MERE FACT THAT WE ENTERTAIN THE POSSIBILITY IT CAN BE THAT WE ENTERTAIN THE POSSIBILITY IT CAN BE INTERPRETED IN A DIFFERENT POSSIBILITY IT CAN BE INTERPRETED IN A DIFFERENT WAY TELLS US WHERE THE INTERPRETED IN A DIFFERENT WAY TELLS US WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES. WAY TELLS US WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES. THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE WAY PROBLEM LIES. THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERPRETING THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERPRETING IT. THAT PEOPLE ARE INTERPRETING IT. WE'VE GOT TO STOP HAND IT. WE'VE GOT TO STOP HAND PICKING TEXTS IN THIS WAY TO WE'VE GOT TO STOP HAND PICKING TEXTS IN THIS WAY TO SAY THAT'S WHAT ISLAM IS OR PICKING TEXTS IN THIS WAY TO SAY THAT'S WHAT ISLAM IS OR THIS IS WHAT ISLAM IS. SAY THAT'S WHAT ISLAM IS OR THIS IS WHAT ISLAM IS. LET'S START LOOKING AT THE THIS IS WHAT ISLAM IS. LET'S START LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE WHO INTERPRET IT. LET'S START LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE WHO INTERPRET IT. OTHERWISE, LOOK -- I DON'T PEOPLE WHO INTERPRET IT. OTHERWISE, LOOK -- I DON'T WANT TO MISS THE POINT. OTHERWISE, LOOK -- I DON'T WANT TO MISS THE POINT. TONY BLAIR AND GEORGE BUSH, WANT TO MISS THE POINT. TONY BLAIR AND GEORGE BUSH, WHEN THEY INVADED IRAQ, TONY TONY BLAIR AND GEORGE BUSH, WHEN THEY INVADED IRAQ, TONY BLAIR SAID IN GOD WE TRUST. WHEN THEY INVADED IRAQ, TONY BLAIR SAID IN GOD WE TRUST. WHEN HE ASKED IN THE BLAIR SAID IN GOD WE TRUST. WHEN HE ASKED IN THE INTERVIEW DID YOU PRAY TO WHEN HE ASKED IN THE INTERVIEW DID YOU PRAY TO GOD, HE SAID GOD TOLD ME TO INTERVIEW DID YOU PRAY TO GOD, HE SAID GOD TOLD ME TO DO THIS. GOD, HE SAID GOD TOLD ME TO DO THIS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WAS A DO THIS. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WAS A RELIGIOUS INVASION, BUT IN THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WAS A RELIGIOUS INVASION, BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IN RELIGIOUS INVASION, BUT IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND IN PAKISTAN, WHENEVER I GO THE MIDDLE EAST AND IN PAKISTAN, WHENEVER I GO THERE, THAT'S WHAT I HEAR. PAKISTAN, WHENEVER I GO THERE, THAT'S WHAT I HEAR. I HEAR YOUNG PEOPLE IN THERE, THAT'S WHAT I HEAR. I HEAR YOUNG PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN SAYING TO THEY THAT I HEAR YOUNG PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN SAYING TO THEY THAT GEORGE BUSH USED CREWS I'D, PAKISTAN SAYING TO THEY THAT GEORGE BUSH USED CREWS I'D, HE PRAYED TO GOD BEFORE HE GEORGE BUSH USED CREWS I'D, HE PRAYED TO GOD BEFORE HE INVADED IRAQ ANDTONY BLAY HE PRAYED TO GOD BEFORE HE INVADED IRAQ ANDTONY BLAY CONVERTED TO ISLAM SISM. INVADED IRAQ ANDTONY BLAY CONVERTED TO ISLAM SISM. >> THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO CONVERTED TO ISLAM SISM. >> THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE IN NEW YORK >> THIS IS PROBABLY GOING TO GET ME IN TROUBLE IN NEW YORK WHERE WE DO THE INTELLIGENCE GET ME IN TROUBLE IN NEW YORK WHERE WE DO THE INTELLIGENCE SQUARE DEBATES BUT WE HAVE A WHERE WE DO THE INTELLIGENCE SQUARE DEBATES BUT WE HAVE A PORTION WHERE WE TAKE SQUARE DEBATES BUT WE HAVE A PORTION WHERE WE TAKE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE PORTION WHERE WE TAKE QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE AND IN NO, IT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE AND IN NO, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS. AND IN NO, IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS. WE HAVE A LOT OF THE PROCESS. WE HAVE A LOT OF THE QUESTIONNAIRES WHO ACTUALLY WE HAVE A LOT OF THE QUESTIONNAIRES WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO JOIN THE DEBATE. QUESTIONNAIRES WHO ACTUALLY WANT TO JOIN THE DEBATE. AND I HAVE TO COMPLIMENT THIS WANT TO JOIN THE DEBATE. AND I HAVE TO COMPLIMENT THIS AUDIENCE IN RICHMOND FOR SOME AND I HAVE TO COMPLIMENT THIS AUDIENCE IN RICHMOND FOR SOME SPECTACULARLY GOOD QUESTIONS. AUDIENCE IN RICHMOND FOR SOME SPECTACULARLY GOOD QUESTIONS. THERE'S ONE -- SERIOUSLY. SPECTACULARLY GOOD QUESTIONS. THERE'S ONE -- SERIOUSLY. THEY'RE SUCH PERFECTLY THERE'S ONE -- SERIOUSLY. THEY'RE SUCH PERFECTLY PHRASED QUESTIONS. THEY'RE SUCH PERFECTLY PHRASED QUESTIONS. LAUREN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE PHRASED QUESTIONS. LAUREN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE, BUT I LOVE THE TWIST LAUREN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE, BUT I LOVE THE TWIST YOU PUT ON THIS ONE. YOU ARE, BUT I LOVE THE TWIST YOU PUT ON THIS ONE. I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW THE YOU PUT ON THIS ONE. I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT THE I AM CURIOUS TO KNOW THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT THE IMAM SHARES WITH MODERATE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT THE IMAM SHARES WITH MODERATE MUSLIMS AND NEW ONE QUESTION IMAM SHARES WITH MODERATE MUSLIMS AND NEW ONE QUESTION THAT MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH MUSLIMS AND NEW ONE QUESTION THAT MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH EXTREMISTS. THAT MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH EXTREMISTS. >> NUMBER ONE QUESTION? EXTREMISTS. >> NUMBER ONE QUESTION? >> I'M SORRY, THE NUMBER ONE >> NUMBER ONE QUESTION? >> I'M SORRY, THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE. >> I'M SORRY, THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE. >> I WAS STUCK ON THE WORD MESSAGE. >> I WAS STUCK ON THE WORD QUESTION. >> I WAS STUCK ON THE WORD QUESTION. CURIOUS TO KNOW THE NUMBER QUESTION. CURIOUS TO KNOW THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT HE SHARES CURIOUS TO KNOW THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT HE SHARES WITH MODERN MUSLIMS AND ONE MESSAGE THAT HE SHARES WITH MODERN MUSLIMS AND NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT WITH MODERN MUSLIMS AND NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH NUMBER ONE MESSAGE THAT MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH EXTREMISTS. MR. NAWAZ SHARES WITH EXTREMISTS. >> THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE IS EXTREMISTS. >> THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE IS THAT OUR FAITH IS A FAITH >> THE NUMBER ONE MESSAGE IS THAT OUR FAITH IS A FAITH THAT IS ABOUT SUBMISSION TO THAT OUR FAITH IS A FAITH THAT IS ABOUT SUBMISSION TO GOD, THAT IT IS ABOUT WORSHIP THAT IS ABOUT SUBMISSION TO GOD, THAT IT IS ABOUT WORSHIP ING GOD. GOD, THAT IT IS ABOUT WORSHIP ING GOD. IT IS A FAITH THAT COMES FROM ING GOD. IT IS A FAITH THAT COMES FROM THE ABRAHAMIC FAITH IT IS A FAITH THAT COMES FROM THE ABRAHAMIC FAITH TRADITION. THE ABRAHAMIC FAITH TRADITION. WE ARE A PART OF THE TRADITION. WE ARE A PART OF THE CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH ABRAHAM WE ARE A PART OF THE CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH ABRAHAM IC TRADITION OF CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH ABRAHAM IC TRADITION OF RELIGION. IC TRADITION OF RELIGION. OUR LAWS ARE VERY SIMILAR. RELIGION. OUR LAWS ARE VERY SIMILAR. AND THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO OUR LAWS ARE VERY SIMILAR. AND THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO ESTABLISH A COMMUNITY THAT AND THE WHOLE IDEA IS TO ESTABLISH A COMMUNITY THAT BELIEVES IN GOD, AND AS I ESTABLISH A COMMUNITY THAT BELIEVES IN GOD, AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT BELIEVES IN GOD, AND AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT WORSHIPS THE SKRAETOR -- THE MENTIONED EARLIER, THAT WORSHIPS THE SKRAETOR -- THE CREATOR IN A STATE AS IF WE WORSHIPS THE SKRAETOR -- THE CREATOR IN A STATE AS IF WE SEE GOD, THE PROPHET CREATOR IN A STATE AS IF WE SEE GOD, THE PROPHET DESCRIBES VIRTUE, DESCRIBING SEE GOD, THE PROPHET DESCRIBES VIRTUE, DESCRIBING ISLAM, WHICH MEANS VIRTUE, IS DESCRIBES VIRTUE, DESCRIBING ISLAM, WHICH MEANS VIRTUE, IS TO WORSHIP GOD AND TO SERVE ISLAM, WHICH MEANS VIRTUE, IS TO WORSHIP GOD AND TO SERVE GOD AS IF YOU SEE THE TO WORSHIP GOD AND TO SERVE GOD AS IF YOU SEE THE CREATOR, AND IF YOU DO NOT GOD AS IF YOU SEE THE CREATOR, AND IF YOU DO NOT SEE THE CREATOR -- SEEING THE CREATOR, AND IF YOU DO NOT SEE THE CREATOR -- SEEING THE CREATOR IS NOT ONLY SERVING SEE THE CREATOR -- SEEING THE CREATOR IS NOT ONLY SERVING GOD IN OUR WORSHIP BUT CREATOR IS NOT ONLY SERVING GOD IN OUR WORSHIP BUT SERVING HUMANITY, HELPING THE GOD IN OUR WORSHIP BUT SERVING HUMANITY, HELPING THE POOR AND HELPING TO BUILD A SERVING HUMANITY, HELPING THE POOR AND HELPING TO BUILD A GREATER CONCEPT OF HUMAN POOR AND HELPING TO BUILD A GREATER CONCEPT OF HUMAN KIND. GREATER CONCEPT OF HUMAN KIND. >> I MAY BE READING MORE INTO KIND. >> I MAY BE READING MORE INTO IT BUT I HAVE A SENSE THE >> I MAY BE READING MORE INTO IT BUT I HAVE A SENSE THE QUESTION ALSO HAD A IT BUT I HAVE A SENSE THE QUESTION ALSO HAD A CONNOTATION OF WHAT DO YOU QUESTION ALSO HAD A CONNOTATION OF WHAT DO YOU SAY TO MODERATE MUSLIMS ABOUT CONNOTATION OF WHAT DO YOU SAY TO MODERATE MUSLIMS ABOUT EXTREMISM IN THIS LAW? SAY TO MODERATE MUSLIMS ABOUT EXTREMISM IN THIS LAW? >> WE ACKNOWLEDGE -- ALL THE EXTREMISM IN THIS LAW? >> WE ACKNOWLEDGE -- ALL THE THINGS THAT AAYAN IS TALKING >> WE ACKNOWLEDGE -- ALL THE THINGS THAT AAYAN IS TALKING ABOUT AND MAAJID HAS BEEN THINGS THAT AAYAN IS TALKING ABOUT AND MAAJID HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THAT ABOUT AND MAAJID HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THAT EXIST IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THAT EXIST IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY. EXIST IN THE MUSLIM WORLD TODAY. THERE'S NO DISPUTE WE ARE THE TODAY. THERE'S NO DISPUTE WE ARE THE BIGGEST VICTIMS OF OUR OWN THERE'S NO DISPUTE WE ARE THE BIGGEST VICTIMS OF OUR OWN ACTS OF VIOLENCE. BIGGEST VICTIMS OF OUR OWN ACTS OF VIOLENCE. THAT THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE ACTS OF VIOLENCE. THAT THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE LEGITIMATELY COME FROM OUR THAT THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE LEGITIMATELY COME FROM OUR FAITH. LEGITIMATELY COME FROM OUR FAITH. THIS IS THE BATTLE THAT IS FAITH. THIS IS THE BATTLE THAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITHIN THIS IS THE BATTLE THAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITHIN THE MUSLIM WORLD. HAPPENING RIGHT NOW WITHIN THE MUSLIM WORLD. THIS IS THE WORK WHICH I'M THE MUSLIM WORLD. THIS IS THE WORK WHICH I'M DEVOTED TO THROUGH THE GLOBAL THIS IS THE WORK WHICH I'M DEVOTED TO THROUGH THE GLOBAL MOVEMENT TO MODERATES, WHICH DEVOTED TO THROUGH THE GLOBAL MOVEMENT TO MODERATES, WHICH I'M DOING WITH A NUMBER OF MOVEMENT TO MODERATES, WHICH I'M DOING WITH A NUMBER OF MUSLIM WORLD LEADERS IN TERMS I'M DOING WITH A NUMBER OF MUSLIM WORLD LEADERS IN TERMS OF ADVANCING THE ROLE OF MUSLIM WORLD LEADERS IN TERMS OF ADVANCING THE ROLE OF WOMEN, WHICH IS NOT UNIFORM OF ADVANCING THE ROLE OF WOMEN, WHICH IS NOT UNIFORM ACROSS THE MUSLIM WORLD, BY WOMEN, WHICH IS NOT UNIFORM ACROSS THE MUSLIM WORLD, BY ANY MEANS. ACROSS THE MUSLIM WORLD, BY ANY MEANS. YOU HAVE WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD ANY MEANS. YOU HAVE WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD -- WE HAVE HAD FIVE WOMEN YOU HAVE WOMEN WHO HAVE HAD -- WE HAVE HAD FIVE WOMEN HEADS OF GOVERNMENTS, MANY -- WE HAVE HAD FIVE WOMEN HEADS OF GOVERNMENTS, MANY MINISTERS IN MUSLIM HEADS OF GOVERNMENTS, MANY MINISTERS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. MINISTERS IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. THE ROLE OF WOMEN IS NOT A COUNTRIES. THE ROLE OF WOMEN IS NOT A COMMON THING. THE ROLE OF WOMEN IS NOT A COMMON THING. IT COMES FROM A CULTURAL COMMON THING. IT COMES FROM A CULTURAL TRADITION, RATHER THAN FROM IT COMES FROM A CULTURAL TRADITION, RATHER THAN FROM THE FAITH 2R5D IGS -- TRADITION, RATHER THAN FROM THE FAITH 2R5D IGS -- TRADITION ITSELF. THE FAITH 2R5D IGS -- TRADITION ITSELF. EVEN WE'VE HAD PROGRAMS IN TRADITION ITSELF. EVEN WE'VE HAD PROGRAMS IN EGYPT, WE'RE TRYING TO SCALE EVEN WE'VE HAD PROGRAMS IN EGYPT, WE'RE TRYING TO SCALE UP, AND IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN, EGYPT, WE'RE TRYING TO SCALE UP, AND IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN, AND LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THIS UP, AND IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN, AND LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THIS IS A BATTLE AND LIKE ANY AND LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THIS IS A BATTLE AND LIKE ANY BATTLE, YOU HAVE YOUR WINS, IS A BATTLE AND LIKE ANY BATTLE, YOU HAVE YOUR WINS, YOUR LOSSES, AND THE OPPOSING BATTLE, YOU HAVE YOUR WINS, YOUR LOSSES, AND THE OPPOSING SIDE ALWAYS TRIES TO COMBAT YOUR LOSSES, AND THE OPPOSING SIDE ALWAYS TRIES TO COMBAT YOU, BUT OUR WORK IS HOW DO SIDE ALWAYS TRIES TO COMBAT YOU, BUT OUR WORK IS HOW DO WE STRATEGIZE TO BUILD A YOU, BUT OUR WORK IS HOW DO WE STRATEGIZE TO BUILD A BROADER COALITION OF FORCE WE STRATEGIZE TO BUILD A BROADER COALITION OF FORCE THAT WILL ACTUALLY CHANGE THE BROADER COALITION OF FORCE THAT WILL ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DISCOURSE FOR THE POSITIVE THAT WILL ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DISCOURSE FOR THE POSITIVE AND EI'M AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST DISCOURSE FOR THE POSITIVE AND EI'M AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST WE CAN WIN THIS BATTLE. AND EI'M AN ETERNAL OPTIMIST WE CAN WIN THIS BATTLE. >> AND MAAJID, WHAT'S YOUR WE CAN WIN THIS BATTLE. >> AND MAAJID, WHAT'S YOUR MESSAGE FOR THE EXTREMISTS? >> AND MAAJID, WHAT'S YOUR MESSAGE FOR THE EXTREMISTS? >> HELP ME OUT. MESSAGE FOR THE EXTREMISTS? >> HELP ME OUT. WE'RE ALWAYS STUCK WITH A -- >> HELP ME OUT. WE'RE ALWAYS STUCK WITH A -- STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD WE'RE ALWAYS STUCK WITH A -- STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD PLACE, AND HERE I'M TRYING TO STUCK BETWEEN A ROCK AND HARD PLACE, AND HERE I'M TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE THAT ISLAM IS PLACE, AND HERE I'M TRYING TO TELL EVERYONE THAT ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE. TELL EVERYONE THAT ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE. IT'S INTERPRETED. NOT A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE. IT'S INTERPRETED. WHEN I GO TO PAKISTAN, THE IT'S INTERPRETED. WHEN I GO TO PAKISTAN, THE MORE I SPEAK TO MUSLIMS WHO WHEN I GO TO PAKISTAN, THE MORE I SPEAK TO MUSLIMS WHO HAVE EVERY SENSE OF MORE I SPEAK TO MUSLIMS WHO HAVE EVERY SENSE OF GRIEVANCE, I'M TRYING TO TELL HAVE EVERY SENSE OF GRIEVANCE, I'M TRYING TO TELL THEM THAT AMERICA ISN'T AT GRIEVANCE, I'M TRYING TO TELL THEM THAT AMERICA ISN'T AT WAR WITH ISLAM. THEM THAT AMERICA ISN'T AT WAR WITH ISLAM. AND AMERICA DOESN'T HATE WAR WITH ISLAM. AND AMERICA DOESN'T HATE MUSLIM AND ISLAM. AND AMERICA DOESN'T HATE MUSLIM AND ISLAM. IF THE WEST CAN USE A GENERAL MUSLIM AND ISLAM. IF THE WEST CAN USE A GENERAL TERM, IT DOESN'T HATE ISLAM IF THE WEST CAN USE A GENERAL TERM, IT DOESN'T HATE ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. TERM, IT DOESN'T HATE ISLAM AND MUSLIMS. WHEN WE SPEAK TO THEM, THEY AND MUSLIMS. WHEN WE SPEAK TO THEM, THEY ALSO CHERRY PICK EVIDENCES WHEN WE SPEAK TO THEM, THEY ALSO CHERRY PICK EVIDENCES LIKE THE ONE WE JUST ENDED ON ALSO CHERRY PICK EVIDENCES LIKE THE ONE WE JUST ENDED ON BEFORE THE INTERMISSION, OR LIKE THE ONE WE JUST ENDED ON BEFORE THE INTERMISSION, OR OTHERS. BEFORE THE INTERMISSION, OR OTHERS. THEY PICK THESE THINGS AND OTHERS. THEY PICK THESE THINGS AND SAY WELL, THERE WAS A CURAN THEY PICK THESE THINGS AND SAY WELL, THERE WAS A CURAN BURNING SESSION THERE AND SAY WELL, THERE WAS A CURAN BURNING SESSION THERE AND THERE WAS THIS DRONE STRIKES, BURNING SESSION THERE AND THERE WAS THIS DRONE STRIKES, AND THEY PICK ON THINGS TO THERE WAS THIS DRONE STRIKES, AND THEY PICK ON THINGS TO PROVE WHEN I CALL HALF AND THEY PICK ON THINGS TO PROVE WHEN I CALL HALF TRUTHS, AND HALF TRUTHS PROVE WHEN I CALL HALF TRUTHS, AND HALF TRUTHS AREN'T THE SAME AS LIES. TRUTHS, AND HALF TRUTHS AREN'T THE SAME AS LIES. IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DEBUNK A AREN'T THE SAME AS LIES. IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DEBUNK A LIE AND TO DISPROVE A LIE, IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DEBUNK A LIE AND TO DISPROVE A LIE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT BASED IN LIE AND TO DISPROVE A LIE, BECAUSE IT'S NOT BASED IN FACT. BECAUSE IT'S NOT BASED IN FACT. BUT THERE ARE HALF TRUE FACT. BUT THERE ARE HALF TRUE NARRATIVES ON BOTH SIDES OF BUT THERE ARE HALF TRUE NARRATIVES ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS DEBATE, SO A HALF TRUTH NARRATIVES ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS DEBATE, SO A HALF TRUTH ON THIS SIDE, YES, OF COURSE, THIS DEBATE, SO A HALF TRUTH ON THIS SIDE, YES, OF COURSE, THERE ARE ELEMENTS WITHIN ON THIS SIDE, YES, OF COURSE, THERE ARE ELEMENTS WITHIN SCRIPTURE THAT ARE THERE ARE ELEMENTS WITHIN SCRIPTURE THAT ARE INTERPRETED TO JUSTIFY ACTS SCRIPTURE THAT ARE INTERPRETED TO JUSTIFY ACTS OF GROSS VIOLENCE TODAY. INTERPRETED TO JUSTIFY ACTS OF GROSS VIOLENCE TODAY. BUT, OF COURSE, THAT'S HALF OF GROSS VIOLENCE TODAY. BUT, OF COURSE, THAT'S HALF THE TRUTH AS WE'VE BEEN BUT, OF COURSE, THAT'S HALF THE TRUTH AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING. THE TRUTH AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING. ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S A DISCUSSING. ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S A HALF TRUTH, BECAUSE ONLY PICK ON THE OTHER SIDE, THERE'S A HALF TRUTH, BECAUSE ONLY PICK ON ENEMY THAT IS JUSTIFY HALF TRUTH, BECAUSE ONLY PICK ON ENEMY THAT IS JUSTIFY THEIR NARRATIVE. ON ENEMY THAT IS JUSTIFY THEIR NARRATIVE. THEY SAY AMERICANS ARE WITH THEIR NARRATIVE. THEY SAY AMERICANS ARE WITH WAR WITH MUSLIMS, BECAUSE THEY SAY AMERICANS ARE WITH WAR WITH MUSLIMS, BECAUSE LOOK, PAL STEIN, KASHMIR, WAR WITH MUSLIMS, BECAUSE LOOK, PAL STEIN, KASHMIR, BOSNIA, IRAQ, MUSLIMS ARE LOOK, PAL STEIN, KASHMIR, BOSNIA, IRAQ, MUSLIMS ARE DYING EVERYWHERE, GUANTANAMO BOSNIA, IRAQ, MUSLIMS ARE DYING EVERYWHERE, GUANTANAMO BAY, TORTURE, WATER BOARDING, DYING EVERYWHERE, GUANTANAMO BAY, TORTURE, WATER BOARDING, THESE ARE THINGS THAT BAY, TORTURE, WATER BOARDING, THESE ARE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, WHICH IS THESE ARE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, WHICH IS WHY I CALL THEM HALF TRUTHS. ACTUALLY HAPPENED, WHICH IS WHY I CALL THEM HALF TRUTHS. IF ONE WERE TO TRY AND PROVE WHY I CALL THEM HALF TRUTHS. IF ONE WERE TO TRY AND PROVE ANY ONE OF THESE, THEY CAN IF ONE WERE TO TRY AND PROVE ANY ONE OF THESE, THEY CAN FOUND EVIDENCE TO SAY THESE ANY ONE OF THESE, THEY CAN FOUND EVIDENCE TO SAY THESE HAPPENED, AND THAT'S HOW A FOUND EVIDENCE TO SAY THESE HAPPENED, AND THAT'S HOW A YOUNG MIND GETS CONVINCED. HAPPENED, AND THAT'S HOW A YOUNG MIND GETS CONVINCED. OF COURSE IT DOESN'T TELL THE YOUNG MIND GETS CONVINCED. OF COURSE IT DOESN'T TELL THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY THAT, OF COURSE IT DOESN'T TELL THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY THAT, IT WAS THE AMERICANS, THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STORY THAT, IT WAS THE AMERICANS, THE AMERICAN ARMY, THAT WENT IN IT WAS THE AMERICANS, THE AMERICAN ARMY, THAT WENT IN TO SAVE AND DEFEND MUSLIMS IN AMERICAN ARMY, THAT WENT IN TO SAVE AND DEFEND MUSLIMS IN KOSOVO, NEXT DOOR TO BOSNIA, TO SAVE AND DEFEND MUSLIMS IN KOSOVO, NEXT DOOR TO BOSNIA, AGAINST SERBS, IT DOESN'T KOSOVO, NEXT DOOR TO BOSNIA, AGAINST SERBS, IT DOESN'T TELL THE OTHER HALF OF THE AGAINST SERBS, IT DOESN'T TELL THE OTHER HALF OF THE STORY. TELL THE OTHER HALF OF THE STORY. THERE WAS THE AMERICAN MEDIA STORY. THERE WAS THE AMERICAN MEDIA THAT EXPOSED -- EXPOSED THE THERE WAS THE AMERICAN MEDIA THAT EXPOSED -- EXPOSED THE TORTURE THAT WENT ON IN THE THAT EXPOSED -- EXPOSED THE TORTURE THAT WENT ON IN THE PRISONS OF IRAQ. TORTURE THAT WENT ON IN THE PRISONS OF IRAQ. TESTIFY THE AMERICAN PRISONS OF IRAQ. TESTIFY THE AMERICAN IMMEDIATE THAT THAT EXPOSED TESTIFY THE AMERICAN IMMEDIATE THAT THAT EXPOSED ALL OF THIS. IMMEDIATE THAT THAT EXPOSED ALL OF THIS. IT'S AMERICAN LAWYERS THAT ALL OF THIS. IT'S AMERICAN LAWYERS THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET IT'S AMERICAN LAWYERS THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET GUANTANAMO BAY SHUT DOWN. ARE ATTEMPTING TO GET GUANTANAMO BAY SHUT DOWN. THIS IS DEBATE HAPPENING GUANTANAMO BAY SHUT DOWN. THIS IS DEBATE HAPPENING WITHIN THE AMERICAN CONTEXT. THIS IS DEBATE HAPPENING WITHIN THE AMERICAN CONTEXT. LIKEWISE, THIS DEBATE ABOUT WITHIN THE AMERICAN CONTEXT. LIKEWISE, THIS DEBATE ABOUT TERRORISM AND EXTREMISM IS LIKEWISE, THIS DEBATE ABOUT TERRORISM AND EXTREMISM IS LIVE WITHIN THE MUSLIM TERRORISM AND EXTREMISM IS LIVE WITHIN THE MUSLIM CONTEXT. LIVE WITHIN THE MUSLIM CONTEXT. THESE ARE THE HALF TRUTHS CONTEXT. THESE ARE THE HALF TRUTHS THAT NEED TO BE DEBUNKED. THESE ARE THE HALF TRUTHS THAT NEED TO BE DEBUNKED. THAT'S I DIDN'T SAID HELP ME THAT NEED TO BE DEBUNKED. THAT'S I DIDN'T SAID HELP ME OUT. THAT'S I DIDN'T SAID HELP ME OUT. WE NEED TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE OUT. WE NEED TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE AND GET BOTH SIDES TO REALIZE WE NEED TO MEET IN THE MIDDLE AND GET BOTH SIDES TO REALIZE THE OTHER SIDE HAS A VERY BAD AND GET BOTH SIDES TO REALIZE THE OTHER SIDE HAS A VERY BAD IMPRESSION OF THEM BUT WE THE OTHER SIDE HAS A VERY BAD IMPRESSION OF THEM BUT WE KNOW THE TRUTH ISN'T AS IMPRESSION OF THEM BUT WE KNOW THE TRUTH ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT. KNOW THE TRUTH ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS THAT. >> SPECIFICALLY, WHY IS THERE SIMPLE AS THAT. >> SPECIFICALLY, WHY IS THERE SO MUCH VIOLENCE AGAINST AND >> SPECIFICALLY, WHY IS THERE SO MUCH VIOLENCE AGAINST AND OPREGS OF WOMEN, IS IT A SO MUCH VIOLENCE AGAINST AND OPREGS OF WOMEN, IS IT A PROBLEM OF SUBSTANCE OR OPREGS OF WOMEN, IS IT A PROBLEM OF SUBSTANCE OR INTERP TAILINGS, DOES THE PROBLEM OF SUBSTANCE OR INTERP TAILINGS, DOES THE CURAN SPECIFICALLY -- INTERP TAILINGS, DOES THE CURAN SPECIFICALLY -- INTERPRETATION, DOES THE CURAN SPECIFICALLY -- INTERPRETATION, DOES THE CURAN SPECIFICALLY CONDONE IT INTERPRETATION, DOES THE CURAN SPECIFICALLY CONDONE IT >> AS THE FEMINISTS -- WELL, CURAN SPECIFICALLY CONDONE IT >> AS THE FEMINISTS -- WELL, MAYBE EVERYONE HERE IS A >> AS THE FEMINISTS -- WELL, MAYBE EVERYONE HERE IS A FEMINIST BUT AS THE FEMALE MAYBE EVERYONE HERE IS A FEMINIST BUT AS THE FEMALE FEMINIST ON THE PANEL, I'LL FEMINIST BUT AS THE FEMALE FEMINIST ON THE PANEL, I'LL GIVE YOU A FIRST CRACK AT FEMINIST ON THE PANEL, I'LL GIVE YOU A FIRST CRACK AT THAT. GIVE YOU A FIRST CRACK AT THAT. I FIND ENOUGH VERSES IN THE THAT. I FIND ENOUGH VERSES IN THE CURAN AND IN THE HADITH AND I FIND ENOUGH VERSES IN THE CURAN AND IN THE HADITH AND IN THE PRACTICE OF ISLAM TO CURAN AND IN THE HADITH AND IN THE PRACTICE OF ISLAM TO SHOW THAT AS A WOMAN IN IN THE PRACTICE OF ISLAM TO SHOW THAT AS A WOMAN IN ISLAM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SHOW THAT AS A WOMAN IN ISLAM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GUARDIAN. ISLAM, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GUARDIAN. YOU DON'T OWN YOUR SEXUALITY. GUARDIAN. YOU DON'T OWN YOUR SEXUALITY. ALL THE EXAMPLES THAT I YOU DON'T OWN YOUR SEXUALITY. ALL THE EXAMPLES THAT I MENTIONED. ALL THE EXAMPLES THAT I MENTIONED. SO THAT IS -- IT'S SUBSTANCE. MENTIONED. SO THAT IS -- IT'S SUBSTANCE. WHEN I CALL FOR A SO THAT IS -- IT'S SUBSTANCE. WHEN I CALL FOR A REFORMATION, I'M CALLING FOR WHEN I CALL FOR A REFORMATION, I'M CALLING FOR AN EDITING, A REVIEW OF THAT, REFORMATION, I'M CALLING FOR AN EDITING, A REVIEW OF THAT, SO THAT MEN WHO DO NOT WANT AN EDITING, A REVIEW OF THAT, SO THAT MEN WHO DO NOT WANT TO OPPRESS WOMEN CAN FIND SO THAT MEN WHO DO NOT WANT TO OPPRESS WOMEN CAN FIND CONSISTENCY WITHIN THE TO OPPRESS WOMEN CAN FIND CONSISTENCY WITHIN THE SCRIPTURE AND THE WAY THEY CONSISTENCY WITHIN THE SCRIPTURE AND THE WAY THEY PRACTICE ISLAM. SCRIPTURE AND THE WAY THEY PRACTICE ISLAM. RIGHT NOW WHAT YOU SEE WHEN PRACTICE ISLAM. RIGHT NOW WHAT YOU SEE WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLENCE AGAINST RIGHT NOW WHAT YOU SEE WHEN IT COMES TO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN OR RELIGIOUS MINORITIES IT COMES TO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN OR RELIGIOUS MINORITIES , OR SHEAS AND WOMEN OR RELIGIOUS MINORITIES , OR SHEAS AND SUNNIS -- SHIAS AND SUNNIS, , OR SHEAS AND SUNNIS -- SHIAS AND SUNNIS, THEY ARE MUSLIMS WHO ARE PUT SUNNIS -- SHIAS AND SUNNIS, THEY ARE MUSLIMS WHO ARE PUT IN A POSITION, THEY WANT TO THEY ARE MUSLIMS WHO ARE PUT IN A POSITION, THEY WANT TO LIVE, AND THEY DO LIVE LIVES IN A POSITION, THEY WANT TO LIVE, AND THEY DO LIVE LIVES THAT ARE NOT CONSONANT WITH LIVE, AND THEY DO LIVE LIVES THAT ARE NOT CONSONANT WITH WHAT THE CURAN SAYS AND THE THAT ARE NOT CONSONANT WITH WHAT THE CURAN SAYS AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET WHAT THE CURAN SAYS AND THE EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, AND I THINK THE WAY EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, AND I THINK THE WAY FORWARD IS TO STOP THE MOHAMMED, AND I THINK THE WAY FORWARD IS TO STOP THE DENIAL, THE EVASION, AND TO FORWARD IS TO STOP THE DENIAL, THE EVASION, AND TO LOOK AT THIS AND TO MODIFY DENIAL, THE EVASION, AND TO LOOK AT THIS AND TO MODIFY IT. LOOK AT THIS AND TO MODIFY IT. WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT IT. WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT ALLOWS US TO DO THAT. WE LIVE IN A COUNTRY THAT ALLOWS US TO DO THAT. THE UNITED STATES IS FOUNDED ALLOWS US TO DO THAT. THE UNITED STATES IS FOUNDED ON INNOVATION. THE UNITED STATES IS FOUNDED ON INNOVATION. AND THERE'S THIS ENORMOUS ON INNOVATION. AND THERE'S THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TODAY FOR AND THERE'S THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY TODAY FOR MUSLIMS, AS WE LOOK AT THE OPPORTUNITY TODAY FOR MUSLIMS, AS WE LOOK AT THE WORLD WE WERE BORN IN AND THE MUSLIMS, AS WE LOOK AT THE WORLD WE WERE BORN IN AND THE WORLD WE COME FROM, THERE IS WORLD WE WERE BORN IN AND THE WORLD WE COME FROM, THERE IS THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY WORLD WE COME FROM, THERE IS THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY HERE IN THE U.S. TO LOOK AT THIS ENORMOUS OPPORTUNITY HERE IN THE U.S. TO LOOK AT SCRIPTURE IN THE EYE AND TO HERE IN THE U.S. TO LOOK AT SCRIPTURE IN THE EYE AND TO INNOVATE AND TO REFORM. SCRIPTURE IN THE EYE AND TO INNOVATE AND TO REFORM. AND UNLESS THAT IS DONE THAT INNOVATE AND TO REFORM. AND UNLESS THAT IS DONE THAT DISSIDENCE WILL BE THERE AND AND UNLESS THAT IS DONE THAT DISSIDENCE WILL BE THERE AND THE PEOPLE WHO INVOKE THE DISSIDENCE WILL BE THERE AND THE PEOPLE WHO INVOKE THE VERSES AND THE PROPHETS TO THE PEOPLE WHO INVOKE THE VERSES AND THE PROPHETS TO OBEC TIFY WOMEN, THE VIOLENCE VERSES AND THE PROPHETS TO OBEC TIFY WOMEN, THE VIOLENCE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. OBEC TIFY WOMEN, THE VIOLENCE WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR WILL ALWAYS BE THERE. THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ISLAM. THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR ISLAM. I'M WAITING FOR A CHALLENGE, ISLAM. I'M WAITING FOR A CHALLENGE, WHERE IT'S NOT IN THE CURAN. I'M WAITING FOR A CHALLENGE, WHERE IT'S NOT IN THE CURAN. YOU SHOULD GO TO A WEBSITE, WHERE IT'S NOT IN THE CURAN. YOU SHOULD GO TO A WEBSITE, ISLAM, A RELIGION OF FEASTS, YOU SHOULD GO TO A WEBSITE, ISLAM, A RELIGION OF FEASTS, AND SOMEONE HAS DOCUMENTED ISLAM, A RELIGION OF FEASTS, AND SOMEONE HAS DOCUMENTED 109 VERSES FROM THE CURAN, IN AND SOMEONE HAS DOCUMENTED 109 VERSES FROM THE CURAN, IN THE HADITH, IN THE WORLD WE 109 VERSES FROM THE CURAN, IN THE HADITH, IN THE WORLD WE LIVE, CURAN IS A SMALL BOOK THE HADITH, IN THE WORLD WE LIVE, CURAN IS A SMALL BOOK COMPARED -- AND EVERYONE CAN LIVE, CURAN IS A SMALL BOOK COMPARED -- AND EVERYONE CAN SEE -- COMPARED -- AND EVERYONE CAN SEE -- >> I'M ONLY COMING TOES AS A SEE -- >> I'M ONLY COMING TOES AS A MODERATE, AND LOOKING FOR >> I'M ONLY COMING TOES AS A MODERATE, AND LOOKING FOR CLARITY BUT YOU CAN DO THE MODERATE, AND LOOKING FOR CLARITY BUT YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH THE OLD CLARITY BUT YOU CAN DO THE SAME THING WITH THE OLD TESTAMENT. SAME THING WITH THE OLD TESTAMENT. >> BUT THE CHRISTIANS HAVE TESTAMENT. >> BUT THE CHRISTIANS HAVE GONE THROUGH THAT, THEY'VE >> BUT THE CHRISTIANS HAVE GONE THROUGH THAT, THEY'VE HAD THEIR CRUSADES AND WITCH GONE THROUGH THAT, THEY'VE HAD THEIR CRUSADES AND WITCH BURNINGS AND THEY'RE PAST HAD THEIR CRUSADES AND WITCH BURNINGS AND THEY'RE PAST THAT SO VIOLENCE IS NOW AN BURNINGS AND THEY'RE PAST THAT SO VIOLENCE IS NOW AN ISSUE OF THE FRINGE. THAT SO VIOLENCE IS NOW AN ISSUE OF THE FRINGE. TRUE LEADERSHIP, A ISSUE OF THE FRINGE. TRUE LEADERSHIP, A COMPASSIONATE LEADERSHIP TRUE LEADERSHIP, A COMPASSIONATE LEADERSHIP WOULD BE A LEADERSHIP THAT COMPASSIONATE LEADERSHIP WOULD BE A LEADERSHIP THAT WOULD NOW MODIFY, INNOVATE WOULD BE A LEADERSHIP THAT WOULD NOW MODIFY, INNOVATE AND TRANSFORM. WOULD NOW MODIFY, INNOVATE AND TRANSFORM. OF COURSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF AND TRANSFORM. OF COURSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF PASSAGES. OF COURSE THERE ARE PLENTY OF PASSAGES. PART OF THE WORK WE ARE PASSAGES. PART OF THE WORK WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO IN MY PART OF THE WORK WE ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO IN MY ORGANIZATION, IF YOU'RE GOING ATTEMPTING TO DO IN MY ORGANIZATION, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO A WEBSITE, GO TO ORGANIZATION, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO A WEBSITE, GO TO KW*EUL YAM FOUNDATION.ORG. TO GO TO A WEBSITE, GO TO KW*EUL YAM FOUNDATION.ORG. PART OF THE WORK WE'RE DOING, KW*EUL YAM FOUNDATION.ORG. PART OF THE WORK WE'RE DOING, THE TWIN CHALLENGES THAT I PART OF THE WORK WE'RE DOING, THE TWIN CHALLENGES THAT I MENTIONED, AT LEAST IN THE TWIN CHALLENGES THAT I MENTIONED, AT LEAST IN FUNDAMENTALISM, I DO THE WORK MENTIONED, AT LEAST IN FUNDAMENTALISM, I DO THE WORK ON THE ISLAM SIDE BECAUSE, AS FUNDAMENTALISM, I DO THE WORK ON THE ISLAM SIDE BECAUSE, AS I MENTIONED AT THE CHART, I'M ON THE ISLAM SIDE BECAUSE, AS I MENTIONED AT THE CHART, I'M NOT A DEVOUT RELIGIOUS LEADER I MENTIONED AT THE CHART, I'M NOT A DEVOUT RELIGIOUS LEADER SO I DISCUSS INTEGRATION, NOT A DEVOUT RELIGIOUS LEADER SO I DISCUSS INTEGRATION, SOCIAL OCCASION, POLICES WITH SO I DISCUSS INTEGRATION, SOCIAL OCCASION, POLICES WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES, BUT SOCIAL OCCASION, POLICES WITH SOME OF THESE ISSUES, BUT WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY AT KW*EUL SOME OF THESE ISSUES, BUT WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY AT KW*EUL YAM WHO IS A U.K. LEADING WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY AT KW*EUL YAM WHO IS A U.K. LEADING REFORM THEE THEOLOGIAN AND WHATE YAM WHO IS A U.K. LEADING REFORM THEE THEOLOGIAN AND WHATE IS ATTEMPTING TO DO IS LOOK REFORM THEE THEOLOGIAN AND WHATE IS ATTEMPTING TO DO IS LOOK AT THESE GENUINELY IS ATTEMPTING TO DO IS LOOK AT THESE GENUINELY CHALLENGING PASSAGES IN THE AT THESE GENUINELY CHALLENGING PASSAGES IN THE CURAN. CHALLENGING PASSAGES IN THE CURAN. THERE ARE THOSE THAT CURAN. THERE ARE THOSE THAT APPARENTLY LEND TO A STRONG THERE ARE THOSE THAT APPARENTLY LEND TO A STRONG INTERPRETATION THAT A HUSBAND APPARENTLY LEND TO A STRONG INTERPRETATION THAT A HUSBAND IS ALLOWED TO SUB JU GATE THE INTERPRETATION THAT A HUSBAND IS ALLOWED TO SUB JU GATE THE WIFE, POLYGAMY, SLAVERY, ALL IS ALLOWED TO SUB JU GATE THE WIFE, POLYGAMY, SLAVERY, ALL THESE ARE IN THE CURAN, AND WIFE, POLYGAMY, SLAVERY, ALL THESE ARE IN THE CURAN, AND AS YOU MENTIONED, ALSO IN THE THESE ARE IN THE CURAN, AND AS YOU MENTIONED, ALSO IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. AS YOU MENTIONED, ALSO IN THE OLD TESTAMENT. SO WE NEED THEOLOGIANS TO OLD TESTAMENT. SO WE NEED THEOLOGIANS TO REINTERPRET THIS IN A CONTEXT SO WE NEED THEOLOGIANS TO REINTERPRET THIS IN A CONTEXT THAT MAKES SENSE. REINTERPRET THIS IN A CONTEXT THAT MAKES SENSE. MY CHALLENGE TO LITERALISTS, THAT MAKES SENSE. MY CHALLENGE TO LITERALISTS, PEOPLE LIKE AL-QAEDA MY CHALLENGE TO LITERALISTS, PEOPLE LIKE AL-QAEDA TERRORISTS IS THE FOLLOWING. PEOPLE LIKE AL-QAEDA TERRORISTS IS THE FOLLOWING. IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE A TERRORISTS IS THE FOLLOWING. IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE A PASSAGE OF THE CURAN THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE A PASSAGE OF THE CURAN THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BEAT YOUR WIFE PASSAGE OF THE CURAN THAT ALLOWS YOU TO BEAT YOUR WIFE AND SUBJUGATE YOUR WIFE, ALLOWS YOU TO BEAT YOUR WIFE AND SUBJUGATE YOUR WIFE, LIKEWISE WE HAVE TO TAKE AND SUBJUGATE YOUR WIFE, LIKEWISE WE HAVE TO TAKE EVERYTHING ELSE, WHICH MEANS LIKEWISE WE HAVE TO TAKE EVERYTHING ELSE, WHICH MEANS THE REINTRODUCTION OF EVERYTHING ELSE, WHICH MEANS THE REINTRODUCTION OF SLAVERY, IT MEANS EVERYTHING THE REINTRODUCTION OF SLAVERY, IT MEANS EVERYTHING PRACTICED IN THE MEDIEVAL ERA SLAVERY, IT MEANS EVERYTHING PRACTICED IN THE MEDIEVAL ERA NEEDS TO BE REINTRODUCED, PRACTICED IN THE MEDIEVAL ERA NEEDS TO BE REINTRODUCED, DEFEND SLAVERY, CONCUBINES, NEEDS TO BE REINTRODUCED, DEFEND SLAVERY, CONCUBINES, BECAUSE A LITERAL DEFEND SLAVERY, CONCUBINES, BECAUSE A LITERAL INTERPRETATION CAN BE TAKEN BECAUSE A LITERAL INTERPRETATION CAN BE TAKEN FROM ANY OF THE SCRIPTURES. INTERPRETATION CAN BE TAKEN FROM ANY OF THE SCRIPTURES. SO THERE ARE PASSAGES FROM ANY OF THE SCRIPTURES. SO THERE ARE PASSAGES PROBLEMATIC, THEY DO NEED TO SO THERE ARE PASSAGES PROBLEMATIC, THEY DO NEED TO BE LOOKED AT. PROBLEMATIC, THEY DO NEED TO BE LOOKED AT. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SCHOLARS BE LOOKED AT. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SCHOLARS WHO ARE ATTEMPTING THIS WORK. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH SCHOLARS WHO ARE ATTEMPTING THIS WORK. MORE ARE NEEDED. WHO ARE ATTEMPTING THIS WORK. MORE ARE NEEDED. >> THANK YOU. MORE ARE NEEDED. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU. THERE ARE PASSAGES IN THE OLD >> THANK YOU. THERE ARE PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, BUT WHAT PEOPLE THERE ARE PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT, BUT WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IS A TESTAMENT, BUT WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IS A LOT OF THIS, AS YOU MENTIONED DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IS A LOT OF THIS, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, A LOT OF THE LOT OF THIS, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, A LOT OF THE DEVELOPMENTS OF THE EARLIER, A LOT OF THE DEVELOPMENTS OF THE JURISPRUDENCE AND DIFFERENT DEVELOPMENTS OF THE JURISPRUDENCE AND DIFFERENT OPINIONS OF LAW WERE JURISPRUDENCE AND DIFFERENT OPINIONS OF LAW WERE DEVELOPED PHAERPBGS MANY OPINIONS OF LAW WERE DEVELOPED PHAERPBGS MANY YEARS AGO, HUNDREDS -- 500, DEVELOPED PHAERPBGS MANY YEARS AGO, HUNDREDS -- 500, 100,000 YEARS AGO. YEARS AGO, HUNDREDS -- 500, 100,000 YEARS AGO. UNFORTUNATELY, MOST PEOPLE 100,000 YEARS AGO. UNFORTUNATELY, MOST PEOPLE FROM TODAY, PEOPLE FROM THE UNFORTUNATELY, MOST PEOPLE FROM TODAY, PEOPLE FROM THE RIGHT, INCLUDING WHO YOU FROM TODAY, PEOPLE FROM THE RIGHT, INCLUDING WHO YOU REFERRED TO AS AL-QAEDA, HAVE RIGHT, INCLUDING WHO YOU REFERRED TO AS AL-QAEDA, HAVE NOT STUDIED THIS. REFERRED TO AS AL-QAEDA, HAVE NOT STUDIED THIS. WHEN YOU STUDY OUR NOT STUDIED THIS. WHEN YOU STUDY OUR JURISPRUDENCE, AND SEEK WHEN YOU STUDY OUR JURISPRUDENCE, AND SEEK OPINIONS, AND THERE'S A JURISPRUDENCE, AND SEEK OPINIONS, AND THERE'S A FAMOUS QUESTION, ASK A JEW1 OPINIONS, AND THERE'S A FAMOUS QUESTION, ASK A JEW1 QUESTION, GET FIVE ANSWERS, FAMOUS QUESTION, ASK A JEW1 QUESTION, GET FIVE ANSWERS, WHAT'S OUR TRADITION. QUESTION, GET FIVE ANSWERS, WHAT'S OUR TRADITION. THE JEWISH PRINT IS EXTREMELY WHAT'S OUR TRADITION. THE JEWISH PRINT IS EXTREMELY SOPHISTICATED, AND ITS THE JEWISH PRINT IS EXTREMELY SOPHISTICATED, AND ITS HERITAGE HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN. SOPHISTICATED, AND ITS HERITAGE HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN. MUCH OF OUR LITERARY HERITAGE HAS BEEN FORGOTTEN. MUCH OF OUR LITERARY HERITAGE, OUR INTELLECTUAL MUCH OF OUR LITERARY HERITAGE, OUR INTELLECTUAL HERITAGE, MOST OF THESE HERITAGE, OUR INTELLECTUAL HERITAGE, MOST OF THESE QUESTIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN HERITAGE, MOST OF THESE QUESTIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED. QUESTIONS HAVE ALREADY BEEN ADDRESSED. WHEN YOU BEGAN STUDYING IT, ADDRESSED. WHEN YOU BEGAN STUDYING IT, YOU DISCOVERED THAT SCHOLARS WHEN YOU BEGAN STUDYING IT, YOU DISCOVERED THAT SCHOLARS FROM, YOU KNOW, SEVEN YOU DISCOVERED THAT SCHOLARS FROM, YOU KNOW, SEVEN CENTURIES AGO HAD ADDRESSED FROM, YOU KNOW, SEVEN CENTURIES AGO HAD ADDRESSED THESE QUESTIONS AND THESE CENTURIES AGO HAD ADDRESSED THESE QUESTIONS AND THESE PEOPLE ARE NOW ASKING IT ALL THESE QUESTIONS AND THESE PEOPLE ARE NOW ASKING IT ALL OVER AGAIN AS IF IT HAD NOT PEOPLE ARE NOW ASKING IT ALL OVER AGAIN AS IF IT HAD NOT BEEN DONE. OVER AGAIN AS IF IT HAD NOT BEEN DONE. NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, YES, BEEN DONE. NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, YES, IT IS NOT PERFECTION. NOW, HAVING SAID THAT, YES, IT IS NOT PERFECTION. EVEN IN AMERICA, THERE IS IT IS NOT PERFECTION. EVEN IN AMERICA, THERE IS ONGOING ISSUES ABOUT, YOU EVEN IN AMERICA, THERE IS ONGOING ISSUES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EQUALITY OF PAY, OR ONGOING ISSUES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, EQUALITY OF PAY, OR BETWEEN GENDERS, UNTIL KNOW, EQUALITY OF PAY, OR BETWEEN GENDERS, UNTIL RECENTLY. BETWEEN GENDERS, UNTIL RECENTLY. SO IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, RECENTLY. SO IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, THINGS AREN'T PERFECT. SO IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, THINGS AREN'T PERFECT. BUT YOU GO TO DIFFERENT THINGS AREN'T PERFECT. BUT YOU GO TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, YOU WILL NOT SEE BUT YOU GO TO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES, YOU WILL NOT SEE THAT THE ISSUES OF -- TO COUNTRIES, YOU WILL NOT SEE THAT THE ISSUES OF -- TO CLAIM THIS ISSUE, TO FORM A THAT THE ISSUES OF -- TO CLAIM THIS ISSUE, TO FORM A NEGATIVE ACROSS THE MUSLIM CLAIM THIS ISSUE, TO FORM A NEGATIVE ACROSS THE MUSLIM WORLD IS A MYTH. NEGATIVE ACROSS THE MUSLIM WORLD IS A MYTH. >> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A WORLD IS A MYTH. >> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A MAN. >> THAT'S BECAUSE YOU'RE A MAN. >> NO! MAN. >> NO! >> GO TO MALAYSIA, TO MANY >> NO! >> GO TO MALAYSIA, TO MANY COUNTRIES. >> GO TO MALAYSIA, TO MANY COUNTRIES. MANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT YOU COUNTRIES. MANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAVE MANY OF THESE ISSUES THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT HAVE DIFFERENT STATUS. ARE TALKING ABOUT HAVE DIFFERENT STATUS. THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE WOMEN DIFFERENT STATUS. THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE WOMEN HEADS OF STATE. THERE HAVE BEEN FIVE WOMEN HEADS OF STATE. WE ARE WAITING FOR A FEMALE HEADS OF STATE. WE ARE WAITING FOR A FEMALE PRESIDENT IN THE UNITED WE ARE WAITING FOR A FEMALE PRESIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES. PRESIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES. >> WE MUST HAVE A MUSLIM STATES. >> WE MUST HAVE A MUSLIM PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED >> WE MUST HAVE A MUSLIM PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. >> I MUST -- UNLESS YOU STATES. >> I MUST -- UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS ONE! >> I MUST -- UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS ONE! >> BUT THE FACT OF THE BELIEVE THAT OBAMA IS ONE! >> BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS -- AND A LOT OF >> BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS -- AND A LOT OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH MATTER IS -- AND A LOT OF THESE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH THE PARTICULAR CULTURES THESE THINGS HAVE TO DO WITH THE PARTICULAR CULTURES INVOLVED. THE PARTICULAR CULTURES INVOLVED. WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE IN SAUDI INVOLVED. WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE IN SAUDI ARABIA, BUT WOMEN ARE DOING WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE IN SAUDI ARABIA, BUT WOMEN ARE DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN OTHER ARABIA, BUT WOMEN ARE DOING ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN OTHER COUNTRIES. ALL KINDS OF THINGS IN OTHER COUNTRIES. >> THERE IS A STUDY, 99.3% OF COUNTRIES. >> THERE IS A STUDY, 99.3% OF EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE SUBJECTED >> THERE IS A STUDY, 99.3% OF EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE SUBJECTED TO SEXUAL HARASSMENT. EGYPTIAN WOMEN ARE SUBJECTED TO SEXUAL HARASSMENT. THEY CAN'T LEAVE THEIR HOMES. TO SEXUAL HARASSMENT. THEY CAN'T LEAVE THEIR HOMES. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? THEY CAN'T LEAVE THEIR HOMES. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? >> THAT'S TERRIBLE. WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT? >> THAT'S TERRIBLE. >> I'M VERY MUCH AGAINST IT. >> THAT'S TERRIBLE. >> I'M VERY MUCH AGAINST IT. BUT I'M SAYING THAT YOU >> I'M VERY MUCH AGAINST IT. BUT I'M SAYING THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE A GENERALIZED BUT I'M SAYING THAT YOU CANNOT MAKE A GENERALIZED STATEMENT AND PAINT THIS CANNOT MAKE A GENERALIZED STATEMENT AND PAINT THIS CAN'T THAT WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE STATEMENT AND PAINT THIS CAN'T THAT WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE ALL OVER THE MUSLIM WORLD. CAN'T THAT WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE ALL OVER THE MUSLIM WORLD. THAT'S NOT TRUE. ALL OVER THE MUSLIM WORLD. THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE THAT'S NOT TRUE. >> I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE CURRENT, THE NEXT SEGMENT HAS >> I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE CURRENT, THE NEXT SEGMENT HAS PUT THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S CURRENT, THE NEXT SEGMENT HAS PUT THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS AS NUMBER ONE ON THE PUT THE ISSUE OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS AS NUMBER ONE ON THE AGENDA. RIGHTS AS NUMBER ONE ON THE AGENDA. WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO AGENDA. WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, TO EDUCATE WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO EDUCATE PEOPLE, TO EDUCATE IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN ON THE EDUCATE PEOPLE, TO EDUCATE IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN ON THE RIGHTS OF DAUGHTER, ACCORDING IMAMS IN AFGHANISTAN ON THE RIGHTS OF DAUGHTER, ACCORDING TO ISLAMIC LAW, WHICH PEOPLE RIGHTS OF DAUGHTER, ACCORDING TO ISLAMIC LAW, WHICH PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW. TO ISLAMIC LAW, WHICH PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW. THERE'S A LOT OFIG CENTERANS DIDN'T KNOW. THERE'S A LOT OFIG CENTERANS IN THE MUSLIM -- OF THERE'S A LOT OFIG CENTERANS IN THE MUSLIM -- OF IGNORANCE. IN THE MUSLIM -- OF IGNORANCE. THIS ISSUE OF MALALA, IT'S A IGNORANCE. THIS ISSUE OF MALALA, IT'S A TRAVESTY, THE PROPHET HAS THIS ISSUE OF MALALA, IT'S A TRAVESTY, THE PROPHET HAS SAID IN HADITH, THE MUSLIM IS TRAVESTY, THE PROPHET HAS SAID IN HADITH, THE MUSLIM IS TO LEARN FROM THE CRADLE TO SAID IN HADITH, THE MUSLIM IS TO LEARN FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE. TO LEARN FROM THE CRADLE TO THE GRAVE. WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF WOMEN WHO THE GRAVE. WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF WOMEN WHO ARE SCHOLARS, SO THIS IDEA OF WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF WOMEN WHO ARE SCHOLARS, SO THIS IDEA OF SHOOTING MALALA BECAUSE SHE ARE SCHOLARS, SO THIS IDEA OF SHOOTING MALALA BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO GET AN EDUCATION, SHOOTING MALALA BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO GET AN EDUCATION, IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WANTED TO GET AN EDUCATION, IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WITH OUR FUNDAMENTAL IT'S FUNDAMENTALLY AT ODDS WITH OUR FUNDAMENTAL HERITAGE. WITH OUR FUNDAMENTAL HERITAGE. THESE ARE THE ISSUES WHICH WE HERITAGE. THESE ARE THE ISSUES WHICH WE NEED TO EDUCATE OUR PEOPLE THESE ARE THE ISSUES WHICH WE NEED TO EDUCATE OUR PEOPLE ON. NEED TO EDUCATE OUR PEOPLE ON. >> LET ME BRING TO YOU, AND I ON. >> LET ME BRING TO YOU, AND I THINK THE ANSWER THAT YOU'VE >> LET ME BRING TO YOU, AND I THINK THE ANSWER THAT YOU'VE GIVEN TO THE NEXT QUESTION THINK THE ANSWER THAT YOU'VE GIVEN TO THE NEXT QUESTION SOUNDS LIKE YES, LINDA ASKS GIVEN TO THE NEXT QUESTION SOUNDS LIKE YES, LINDA ASKS ARE MODERATE MUSLIMS SIMPLY SOUNDS LIKE YES, LINDA ASKS ARE MODERATE MUSLIMS SIMPLY CHOOSING TO IGNORE VIOLENT ARE MODERATE MUSLIMS SIMPLY CHOOSING TO IGNORE VIOLENT PASSAGES IN THE CURAN, SEEING CHOOSING TO IGNORE VIOLENT PASSAGES IN THE CURAN, SEEING THEM AS A PRODUCT OF CERTAIN PASSAGES IN THE CURAN, SEEING THEM AS A PRODUCT OF CERTAIN TIME AND PLACE, JUST AS MOST THEM AS A PRODUCT OF CERTAIN TIME AND PLACE, JUST AS MOST CHRISTIANS DO WITH THE TIME AND PLACE, JUST AS MOST CHRISTIANS DO WITH THE STPWHAOEUBL. CHRISTIANS DO WITH THE STPWHAOEUBL. >> IT'S NOT ONLY TRUE, BUT STPWHAOEUBL. >> IT'S NOT ONLY TRUE, BUT WHAT PEOPLE -- PEOPLE NEED TO >> IT'S NOT ONLY TRUE, BUT WHAT PEOPLE -- PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CURAN IS WHAT PEOPLE -- PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CURAN IS NOT -- NOT EVERY VERSE IS UNDERSTAND THAT THE CURAN IS NOT -- NOT EVERY VERSE IS REGARDED AS RELEVANT OR AS NOT -- NOT EVERY VERSE IS REGARDED AS RELEVANT OR AS UNIVERSAL. REGARDED AS RELEVANT OR AS UNIVERSAL. THERE'S A MYTH THAT MANY UNIVERSAL. THERE'S A MYTH THAT MANY MUSLIMS IN THIS LAST CENTURY THERE'S A MYTH THAT MANY MUSLIMS IN THIS LAST CENTURY HAVE BEGUN TO ADOPT, THAT MUSLIMS IN THIS LAST CENTURY HAVE BEGUN TO ADOPT, THAT EVERY VERSE IN THE CURAN IS HAVE BEGUN TO ADOPT, THAT EVERY VERSE IN THE CURAN IS ETERNAL APPLICABLE IN EVERY EVERY VERSE IN THE CURAN IS ETERNAL APPLICABLE IN EVERY CONTEXT. ETERNAL APPLICABLE IN EVERY CONTEXT. THIS IS NOT PART OF OUR CONTEXT. THIS IS NOT PART OF OUR INTELLECTUAL JUDICIAL THIS IS NOT PART OF OUR INTELLECTUAL JUDICIAL TRADITION. INTELLECTUAL JUDICIAL TRADITION. THIS IS WHERE MISTAKES HAVE TRADITION. THIS IS WHERE MISTAKES HAVE BEGUN TO OCCUR. THIS IS WHERE MISTAKES HAVE BEGUN TO OCCUR. SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF BEGUN TO OCCUR. SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF MODERATES, YES. SO THE VAST MAJORITY OF MODERATES, YES. BUT THOSE WHO ARE SCHOLARLY MODERATES, YES. BUT THOSE WHO ARE SCHOLARLY AND UNDERSTAND THE BUT THOSE WHO ARE SCHOLARLY AND UNDERSTAND THE JURISPRUDENCE ARE ABLE TO AND UNDERSTAND THE JURISPRUDENCE ARE ABLE TO ARGUE. JURISPRUDENCE ARE ABLE TO ARGUE. THIS IS WHY THE WORK THEY DO ARGUE. THIS IS WHY THE WORK THEY DO IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU THIS IS WHY THE WORK THEY DO IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CREATE CHANGE FROM THE IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU CANNOT CREATE CHANGE FROM THE OUTSIDE. CANNOT CREATE CHANGE FROM THE OUTSIDE. YOU HAVE TO CREATE CHANGE OUTSIDE. YOU HAVE TO CREATE CHANGE FROM WITHIN. YOU HAVE TO CREATE CHANGE FROM WITHIN. THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC FROM WITHIN. THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS, THE WRITINGS OF THE AMERICAN CATHOLIC BISHOPS, THE WRITINGS OF PEOPLE LIKE JOHN COURTNEY BISHOPS, THE WRITINGS OF PEOPLE LIKE JOHN COURTNEY MURRAY, THAT CHANGED THE PEOPLE LIKE JOHN COURTNEY MURRAY, THAT CHANGED THE VATICAN'S POSITION ON MURRAY, THAT CHANGED THE VATICAN'S POSITION ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND VATICAN'S POSITION ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, UNTIL VATICAN TWO IN SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, UNTIL VATICAN TWO IN 1965, THE VATICAN DIDN'T STATE, UNTIL VATICAN TWO IN 1965, THE VATICAN DIDN'T SUBSCRIBE TO A SEPARATION OF 1965, THE VATICAN DIDN'T SUBSCRIBE TO A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. SUBSCRIBE TO A SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. SO IT HAS TO BE DONE FROM CHURCH AND STATE. SO IT HAS TO BE DONE FROM SCHOLARSHIP AND FROM WITHIN. SO IT HAS TO BE DONE FROM SCHOLARSHIP AND FROM WITHIN. >> IF CHANGE NEEDS TO COME SCHOLARSHIP AND FROM WITHIN. >> IF CHANGE NEEDS TO COME FROM INSIDE -- YOU COMMENTED >> IF CHANGE NEEDS TO COME FROM INSIDE -- YOU COMMENTED ON THIS, BUT YOU STEPPED FROM INSIDE -- YOU COMMENTED ON THIS, BUT YOU STEPPED OUTSIDE, WHERE DOES IT PUT ON THIS, BUT YOU STEPPED OUTSIDE, WHERE DOES IT PUT YOU IN THIS? OUTSIDE, WHERE DOES IT PUT YOU IN THIS? >> IT'S NOT ONLY ME. YOU IN THIS? >> IT'S NOT ONLY ME. IT'S NOT THAT THEY -- >> IT'S NOT ONLY ME. IT'S NOT THAT THEY -- THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF IT'S NOT THAT THEY -- THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF ISLAM. THROUGHOUT THE HISTORY OF ISLAM. THERE HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUALS ISLAM. THERE HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUALS WHO CALL FOR SOME FORM OF THERE HAVE BEEN INDIVIDUALS WHO CALL FOR SOME FORM OF INNOVATION, BUT THEN WHAT WHO CALL FOR SOME FORM OF INNOVATION, BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS? INNOVATION, BUT THEN WHAT HAPPENS? THEY GET OXRA SIZED, THEY GET HAPPENS? THEY GET OXRA SIZED, THEY GET KICKED OUT, THEY ARE THROWN THEY GET OXRA SIZED, THEY GET KICKED OUT, THEY ARE THROWN INTO EXILE OR PRISON OR THEY KICKED OUT, THEY ARE THROWN INTO EXILE OR PRISON OR THEY ARE KILLED, AND THAT NEEDS TO INTO EXILE OR PRISON OR THEY ARE KILLED, AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP. ARE KILLED, AND THAT NEEDS TO STOP. I THINK IT'S A HUGE PROGRESS STOP. I THINK IT'S A HUGE PROGRESS THAT THE THREE OF US ARE I THINK IT'S A HUGE PROGRESS THAT THE THREE OF US ARE SITTING HERE TONIGHT. THAT THE THREE OF US ARE SITTING HERE TONIGHT. >> BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT SITTING HERE TONIGHT. >> BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION FROM THE ONE -- YOU >> BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION FROM THE ONE -- YOU MADE A PERSONAL CHOICE TO QUESTION FROM THE ONE -- YOU MADE A PERSONAL CHOICE TO LEAVE ISLAM. MADE A PERSONAL CHOICE TO LEAVE ISLAM. YOU DID NOT LEAVE ISLAM LEAVE ISLAM. YOU DID NOT LEAVE ISLAM BECAUSE YOU RAISED QUESTIONS YOU DID NOT LEAVE ISLAM BECAUSE YOU RAISED QUESTIONS AND CHALLENGES AND WERE BECAUSE YOU RAISED QUESTIONS AND CHALLENGES AND WERE PUSHED OUT. AND CHALLENGES AND WERE PUSHED OUT. YOU ACTUALLY WROTE THAT YOU PUSHED OUT. YOU ACTUALLY WROTE THAT YOU WERE ENJOYING A GLASS OF WINE YOU ACTUALLY WROTE THAT YOU WERE ENJOYING A GLASS OF WINE AND SAID WHY SHOULD I GO TO WERE ENJOYING A GLASS OF WINE AND SAID WHY SHOULD I GO TO HELL FOR THIS WAS KIND OF AND SAID WHY SHOULD I GO TO HELL FOR THIS WAS KIND OF YOUR TURNING POINT MOMENT. HELL FOR THIS WAS KIND OF YOUR TURNING POINT MOMENT. SO IT WAS YOUR CHOICE. YOUR TURNING POINT MOMENT. SO IT WAS YOUR CHOICE. >> I DIDN'T GO OUT AND SAY I SO IT WAS YOUR CHOICE. >> I DIDN'T GO OUT AND SAY I AM NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE >> I DIDN'T GO OUT AND SAY I AM NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY. AM NO LONGER A MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY. BUT JUST BY SEEKING COMMUNITY. BUT JUST BY SEEKING CONSISTENCE WITH MY MORAL BUT JUST BY SEEKING CONSISTENCE WITH MY MORAL PRACTICE AND MY LIFESTYLE, I CONSISTENCE WITH MY MORAL PRACTICE AND MY LIFESTYLE, I WAS TOLD BY THE COMMUNITY, PRACTICE AND MY LIFESTYLE, I WAS TOLD BY THE COMMUNITY, YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US, YOU WAS TOLD BY THE COMMUNITY, YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US, YOU ARE AN INFEDERALIL, AND BEING YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US, YOU ARE AN INFEDERALIL, AND BEING CALLED AN INFIDDLE AND LIAR ARE AN INFEDERALIL, AND BEING CALLED AN INFIDDLE AND LIAR AND TRADER AND SO ON, I CALLED AN INFIDDLE AND LIAR AND TRADER AND SO ON, I ADOPTED THE TITLE OF INFIDDLE AND TRADER AND SO ON, I ADOPTED THE TITLE OF INFIDDLE AS SOMETHING THAT I AM PROUD ADOPTED THE TITLE OF INFIDDLE AS SOMETHING THAT I AM PROUD OF BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT I AS SOMETHING THAT I AM PROUD OF BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT I LOOK AT MYSELF HONESTLY. OF BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT I LOOK AT MYSELF HONESTLY. >> I'LL BRING THIS FOR THE LOOK AT MYSELF HONESTLY. >> I'LL BRING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME. I'M REALLY ASKING, >> I'LL BRING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME. I'M REALLY ASKING, IF YOU STEPPED OUTSIDE THE LAST TIME. I'M REALLY ASKING, IF YOU STEPPED OUTSIDE THE PHASE TO THE POINT THAT YOU IF YOU STEPPED OUTSIDE THE PHASE TO THE POINT THAT YOU CALLED YOURSELF AN ATHEIST, PHASE TO THE POINT THAT YOU CALLED YOURSELF AN ATHEIST, WHAT STANDING DOES IT GIVE CALLED YOURSELF AN ATHEIST, WHAT STANDING DOES IT GIVE YOU IN THE CONVERSATION TO WHAT STANDING DOES IT GIVE YOU IN THE CONVERSATION TO TALK ABOUT THE CHANGE THAT -- YOU IN THE CONVERSATION TO TALK ABOUT THE CHANGE THAT -- I'M FOLLOWING THE IMAM'S TALK ABOUT THE CHANGE THAT -- I'M FOLLOWING THE IMAM'S POINT OF WORK FROM WITHIN. I'M FOLLOWING THE IMAM'S POINT OF WORK FROM WITHIN. WHERE ARE YOU AT THIS POINT? POINT OF WORK FROM WITHIN. WHERE ARE YOU AT THIS POINT? >> FIRST OF ALL, AS SOMEONE WHERE ARE YOU AT THIS POINT? >> FIRST OF ALL, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS -- WHEN YOU SAY >> FIRST OF ALL, AS SOMEONE WHO HAS -- WHEN YOU SAY STEPPED OUT, I DON'T MEAN WHO HAS -- WHEN YOU SAY STEPPED OUT, I DON'T MEAN STEPPED OUT OF THE COMMUNITY STEPPED OUT, I DON'T MEAN STEPPED OUT OF THE COMMUNITY BUT STEPPED OUT OF THE IDEA STEPPED OUT OF THE COMMUNITY BUT STEPPED OUT OF THE IDEA THAT I'M GOING TO BURN IN BUT STEPPED OUT OF THE IDEA THAT I'M GOING TO BURN IN HELL UNLESS I SUBMIT TO A GOD THAT I'M GOING TO BURN IN HELL UNLESS I SUBMIT TO A GOD WHO DE PHAOUPBSS ALL KINDS OF HELL UNLESS I SUBMIT TO A GOD WHO DE PHAOUPBSS ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT I FIND IMMORAL, WHO DE PHAOUPBSS ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT I FIND IMMORAL, SO I FIND THAT REACHING THAT THINGS THAT I FIND IMMORAL, SO I FIND THAT REACHING THAT MENTAL STATE OF CONSISTENCE SO I FIND THAT REACHING THAT MENTAL STATE OF CONSISTENCE AND BEING AT PEACE WITH WHAT MENTAL STATE OF CONSISTENCE AND BEING AT PEACE WITH WHAT I AM AND WHO I AM, IT'S SO AND BEING AT PEACE WITH WHAT I AM AND WHO I AM, IT'S SO MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO NOW I AM AND WHO I AM, IT'S SO MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO NOW LOOK BACK AND READ THE CURAN, MUCH EASIER FOR ME TO NOW LOOK BACK AND READ THE CURAN, BUT THIS TIME, WITH NEW EYES LOOK BACK AND READ THE CURAN, BUT THIS TIME, WITH NEW EYES SAND THINK HERE ARE THINGS BUT THIS TIME, WITH NEW EYES SAND THINK HERE ARE THINGS THAT I WOULD EDIT OUT. SAND THINK HERE ARE THINGS THAT I WOULD EDIT OUT. A LOOK AT THE PROPHET THAT I WOULD EDIT OUT. A LOOK AT THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, I CAN COME TO -- I A LOOK AT THE PROPHET MOHAMMED, I CAN COME TO -- I MEAN, I RECOGNIZE THINGS THAT MOHAMMED, I CAN COME TO -- I MEAN, I RECOGNIZE THINGS THAT HE, FOR INSTANCE, SAID, AT MEAN, I RECOGNIZE THINGS THAT HE, FOR INSTANCE, SAID, AT THAT POINT, THE KILLING AND HE, FOR INSTANCE, SAID, AT THAT POINT, THE KILLING AND BURYING OF LITTLE GIRLS, THAT THAT POINT, THE KILLING AND BURYING OF LITTLE GIRLS, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS BURYING OF LITTLE GIRLS, THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS FORBIDDEN. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS FORBIDDEN. IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SEVENTH FORBIDDEN. IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SEVENTH CENTURY, THE PROPHET MOHAMMED IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SEVENTH CENTURY, THE PROPHET MOHAMMED MADE OR CREATED LAWS THAT CENTURY, THE PROPHET MOHAMMED MADE OR CREATED LAWS THAT ADVANCED THE POSITION OF MADE OR CREATED LAWS THAT ADVANCED THE POSITION OF WOMEN AT THAT TIME, BUT IT'S ADVANCED THE POSITION OF WOMEN AT THAT TIME, BUT IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE TO LOOK AT HIS WOMEN AT THAT TIME, BUT IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE TO LOOK AT HIS OWN LIFESTYLE CRITICALLY AND ALSO POSSIBLE TO LOOK AT HIS OWN LIFESTYLE CRITICALLY AND WHAT CAME AFTERWARDS AND TO OWN LIFESTYLE CRITICALLY AND WHAT CAME AFTERWARDS AND TO SAY IN THE 20TH AND 21ST WHAT CAME AFTERWARDS AND TO SAY IN THE 20TH AND 21ST CENTURY, WE NEED TO REFLECT SAY IN THE 20TH AND 21ST CENTURY, WE NEED TO REFLECT ON THIS AND REFORM THIS, AND CENTURY, WE NEED TO REFLECT ON THIS AND REFORM THIS, AND IT SEEMS TO ME AS IF YOU -- ON THIS AND REFORM THIS, AND IT SEEMS TO ME AS IF YOU -- IF YOU REMAIN A BELIEVER, A IT SEEMS TO ME AS IF YOU -- IF YOU REMAIN A BELIEVER, A MUSLIM BELIEVER, THAT IT IF YOU REMAIN A BELIEVER, A MUSLIM BELIEVER, THAT IT BECOMES VERY HARD TO ARGUE MUSLIM BELIEVER, THAT IT BECOMES VERY HARD TO ARGUE WITH THE CONCEPT OF GOD, OR BECOMES VERY HARD TO ARGUE WITH THE CONCEPT OF GOD, OR TO ARGUE WITH THE MORAL GUIDE WITH THE CONCEPT OF GOD, OR TO ARGUE WITH THE MORAL GUIDE OF ISLAM. TO ARGUE WITH THE MORAL GUIDE OF ISLAM. I MEAN, THIS GENTLEMEN OF ISLAM. I MEAN, THIS GENTLEMEN SITTING HERE TONIGHT I MEAN, THIS GENTLEMEN SITTING HERE TONIGHT DEMONSTRATE THAT. SITTING HERE TONIGHT DEMONSTRATE THAT. THE CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. DEMONSTRATE THAT. THE CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. EVERYONE HAS MISUNDERSTOOD IT THE CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. EVERYONE HAS MISUNDERSTOOD IT CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. EVERYONE HAS MISUNDERSTOOD IT CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. CRITICIZE IT AND HAVE CURAN IS FOREVER PERFECT. CRITICIZE IT AND HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD IT. CRITICIZE IT AND HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD IT. IF YOU BECOME AN ATHEIST, MISUNDERSTOOD IT. IF YOU BECOME AN ATHEIST, THEN YOU CAN DO THAT WITHOUT IF YOU BECOME AN ATHEIST, THEN YOU CAN DO THAT WITHOUT FLINCHING. THEN YOU CAN DO THAT WITHOUT FLINCHING. >> I THINK THE VERY FACT FLINCHING. >> I THINK THE VERY FACT WE'RE HERE, I MEAN, THE ROLE >> I THINK THE VERY FACT WE'RE HERE, I MEAN, THE ROLE THAT AAYAN CAN HAVE IN THIS WE'RE HERE, I MEAN, THE ROLE THAT AAYAN CAN HAVE IN THIS DEBATE, I THINK SHE HAS A THAT AAYAN CAN HAVE IN THIS DEBATE, I THINK SHE HAS A ROLE, AND I THINK THAT I'M DEBATE, I THINK SHE HAS A ROLE, AND I THINK THAT I'M GOING TO GET INTO A LOT OF ROLE, AND I THINK THAT I'M GOING TO GET INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR SAYING THIS, BUT GOING TO GET INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE FOR SAYING THIS, BUT SHE HAS A ROLE, AND IT'S TROUBLE FOR SAYING THIS, BUT SHE HAS A ROLE, AND IT'S CRUCIAL, AND THAT IS THAT SHE HAS A ROLE, AND IT'S CRUCIAL, AND THAT IS THAT THESE CONVERSATIONS HAVE CRUCIAL, AND THAT IS THAT THESE CONVERSATIONS HAVE TAKEN FAR TOO LONG TO HAPPEN THESE CONVERSATIONS HAVE TAKEN FAR TOO LONG TO HAPPEN WITHIN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES. TAKEN FAR TOO LONG TO HAPPEN WITHIN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES. WE AS MUSLIMS HAVE TO COME TO WITHIN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES. WE AS MUSLIMS HAVE TO COME TO TERMS. WE AS MUSLIMS HAVE TO COME TO TERMS. WE HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH TERMS. WE HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE A WE HAVE TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE A PORTION FROM WITHIN OUR THE FACT THAT THERE WILL BE A PORTION FROM WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES WHOSE CONSCIENCE PORTION FROM WITHIN OUR COMMUNITIES WHOSE CONSCIENCE DICK STATE TOSS THEM THEY NO COMMUNITIES WHOSE CONSCIENCE DICK STATE TOSS THEM THEY NO LONGER WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE DICK STATE TOSS THEM THEY NO LONGER WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE FAITH AND WE HAVE TO COME LONGER WANT TO BELIEVE IN THE FAITH AND WE HAVE TO COME WITH TERMS WITH HOW TO DEAL FAITH AND WE HAVE TO COME WITH TERMS WITH HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT IN A CIVIL CONTEXT WITH TERMS WITH HOW TO DEAL WITH THAT IN A CIVIL CONTEXT AND HAVE CIVIL CONVERSATIONS. WITH THAT IN A CIVIL CONTEXT AND HAVE CIVIL CONVERSATIONS. I SPEAK TO AAYAN ON STAGE, I AND HAVE CIVIL CONVERSATIONS. I SPEAK TO AAYAN ON STAGE, I LIKE HER, SHE WAS VERY POLITE I SPEAK TO AAYAN ON STAGE, I LIKE HER, SHE WAS VERY POLITE TO THE LADIES. LIKE HER, SHE WAS VERY POLITE TO THE LADIES. I CALL UPON EVERY OTHER TO THE LADIES. I CALL UPON EVERY OTHER MUSLIM LISTENING TONIGHT, I CALL UPON EVERY OTHER MUSLIM LISTENING TONIGHT, THEY WILL COME ACROSS MUSLIM LISTENING TONIGHT, THEY WILL COME ACROSS EX-MUSLIMS IN THEIR LIFE, THEY WILL COME ACROSS EX-MUSLIMS IN THEIR LIFE, BECAUSE THEY ARE A GROWING EX-MUSLIMS IN THEIR LIFE, BECAUSE THEY ARE A GROWING NUMBER, TO RECONCILE BECAUSE THEY ARE A GROWING NUMBER, TO RECONCILE THEMSELVES TO THIS FACT, THAT NUMBER, TO RECONCILE THEMSELVES TO THIS FACT, THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE AMONG THEMSELVES TO THIS FACT, THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE AMONG THESE COMMUNITIES WHOSE THERE WILL BE PEOPLE AMONG THESE COMMUNITIES WHOSE CONSCIENCE DICTATES TO THEM THESE COMMUNITIES WHOSE CONSCIENCE DICTATES TO THEM THEY NO LONGER WANT TO CONSCIENCE DICTATES TO THEM THEY NO LONGER WANT TO BELIEVE AND OUR RESPONSE TO THEY NO LONGER WANT TO BELIEVE AND OUR RESPONSE TO THAT MUSTING -- MUST BE THAT BELIEVE AND OUR RESPONSE TO THAT MUSTING -- MUST BE THAT IMAM IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER, THAT MUSTING -- MUST BE THAT IMAM IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER, HE IS NOT SWEARING AT HER, IMAM IS A RELIGIOUS LEADER, HE IS NOT SWEARING AT HER, SPITTING AT HER AND OTHER HE IS NOT SWEARING AT HER, SPITTING AT HER AND OTHER MUSLIMS NEED TO TAKE LESSON SPITTING AT HER AND OTHER MUSLIMS NEED TO TAKE LESSON FROM THIS, BECAUSE FRANK MUSLIMS NEED TO TAKE LESSON FROM THIS, BECAUSE FRANK WILL, OUT THERE ON THE FROM THIS, BECAUSE FRANK WILL, OUT THERE ON THE STREETS, THAT IS THE SORT OF WILL, OUT THERE ON THE STREETS, THAT IS THE SORT OF REACTION, IT'S A SEVERE, STREETS, THAT IS THE SORT OF REACTION, IT'S A SEVERE, VIOLENT REACTION. REACTION, IT'S A SEVERE, VIOLENT REACTION. >> ON THE QUESTION OF VIOLENT REACTION. >> ON THE QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP, WE HAVE THIS >> ON THE QUESTION OF LEADERSHIP, WE HAVE THIS QUESTION THAT IS SIGNED LEADERSHIP, WE HAVE THIS QUESTION THAT IS SIGNED LUTHERAN IN WILLIAMSBURG. QUESTION THAT IS SIGNED LUTHERAN IN WILLIAMSBURG. >> FRITZ LUTHERANS IN LUTHERAN IN WILLIAMSBURG. >> FRITZ LUTHERANS IN WILLIAMSBURG. >> FRITZ LUTHERANS IN WILLIAMSBURG. THEY ASK, ARE THERE LEADERS WILLIAMSBURG. THEY ASK, ARE THERE LEADERS IN ISLAM WHO ARE CHOSEN TO BE THEY ASK, ARE THERE LEADERS IN ISLAM WHO ARE CHOSEN TO BE SPOKESMEN ON A WIDER PLAIN, IN ISLAM WHO ARE CHOSEN TO BE SPOKESMEN ON A WIDER PLAIN, SUCH AS A POPE OR PRESIDING SPOKESMEN ON A WIDER PLAIN, SUCH AS A POPE OR PRESIDING BISHOP? SUCH AS A POPE OR PRESIDING BISHOP? I'M WONDERING WHEN BISHOP? I'M WONDERING WHEN ANEXTREMIST PERPETUATES AN I'M WONDERING WHEN ANEXTREMIST PERPETUATES AN ACT OF VIOLENCE IN PRAISE OF ANEXTREMIST PERPETUATES AN ACT OF VIOLENCE IN PRAISE OF ALLAH, ARE THERE LEADERS ACT OF VIOLENCE IN PRAISE OF ALLAH, ARE THERE LEADERS BEYOND THE LOCAL MUSLIM ALLAH, ARE THERE LEADERS BEYOND THE LOCAL MUSLIM COMMUNITIES WHO ARE IN THE BEYOND THE LOCAL MUSLIM COMMUNITIES WHO ARE IN THE POSITION OF CONDEMNING SUCH COMMUNITIES WHO ARE IN THE POSITION OF CONDEMNING SUCH AN ACT? POSITION OF CONDEMNING SUCH AN ACT? >> OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE AN ACT? >> OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CHURCH IN THE >> OUR PROBLEM IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE A CHURCH IN THE SENSE THAT THE CHURCHES HAVE DON'T HAVE A CHURCH IN THE SENSE THAT THE CHURCHES HAVE AN ORGANIZED AND VISUALIZED SENSE THAT THE CHURCHES HAVE AN ORGANIZED AND VISUALIZED CHURCH. AN ORGANIZED AND VISUALIZED CHURCH. SO WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO CHURCH. SO WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE, YOU MIGHT SAY, THE SO WE DON'T HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE, YOU MIGHT SAY, THE EQUIVALENT OF A POPE, OR THE ARE THE, YOU MIGHT SAY, THE EQUIVALENT OF A POPE, OR THE HEAD OF A CHURCH TO MAKE EQUIVALENT OF A POPE, OR THE HEAD OF A CHURCH TO MAKE THOSE PRONOUNCEMENTS. HEAD OF A CHURCH TO MAKE THOSE PRONOUNCEMENTS. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN THOSE PRONOUNCEMENTS. HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN ISLAMIC SCHOLARS WHO HAVE HOWEVER, THERE HAVE BEEN ISLAMIC SCHOLARS WHO HAVE POSITIONS LIKE THE CHIEF ISLAMIC SCHOLARS WHO HAVE POSITIONS LIKE THE CHIEF MUFTIS OR MAJOR MUSLIM POSITIONS LIKE THE CHIEF MUFTIS OR MAJOR MUSLIM SCHOLARS WHO HAVE MADE SUCH MUFTIS OR MAJOR MUSLIM SCHOLARS WHO HAVE MADE SUCH PRONOUNCEMENTS. SCHOLARS WHO HAVE MADE SUCH PRONOUNCEMENTS. >> AND CON -- AND CONDEMN PRONOUNCEMENTS. >> AND CON -- AND CONDEMN THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE. >> AND CON -- AND CONDEMN THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE. UNFORTUNATELY, THESE MESSAGES THESE ACTS OF VIOLENCE. UNFORTUNATELY, THESE MESSAGES ARE NOT HEARD. UNFORTUNATELY, THESE MESSAGES ARE NOT HEARD. >> WHY? ARE NOT HEARD. >> WHY? >> THE MEDIA DOESN'T COVER >> WHY? >> THE MEDIA DOESN'T COVER IT. >> THE MEDIA DOESN'T COVER IT. I, FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER 9/11, I IT. I, FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER 9/11, I WAS PART OF THE GROUP OF THE I, FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER 9/11, I WAS PART OF THE GROUP OF THE PEOPLE WHO CONDEMNED 9/11. WAS PART OF THE GROUP OF THE PEOPLE WHO CONDEMNED 9/11. I WAS APPROACHED -- I'LL GIVE PEOPLE WHO CONDEMNED 9/11. I WAS APPROACHED -- I'LL GIVE YOU A PARTICULAR STORY. I WAS APPROACHED -- I'LL GIVE YOU A PARTICULAR STORY. THIS IS ONE OF SEVERAL. YOU A PARTICULAR STORY. THIS IS ONE OF SEVERAL. I WAS APPROACHED BY THE THIS IS ONE OF SEVERAL. I WAS APPROACHED BY THE RELIGIOUS EDITOR OF THE "NEW I WAS APPROACHED BY THE RELIGIOUS EDITOR OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ON AN ISSUE OF RELIGIOUS EDITOR OF THE "NEW YORK TIMES" ON AN ISSUE OF THE FATWA RAISED BY THE YORK TIMES" ON AN ISSUE OF THE FATWA RAISED BY THE MUSLIM CHAPLAIN OF THE U.S. THE FATWA RAISED BY THE MUSLIM CHAPLAIN OF THE U.S. ARMED FORCES WHO RAISED THE MUSLIM CHAPLAIN OF THE U.S. ARMED FORCES WHO RAISED THE QUESTION AS TO WHETHER IT WAS ARMED FORCES WHO RAISED THE QUESTION AS TO WHETHER IT WAS OKAY FOR MUSLIMS TO FIGHT IN QUESTION AS TO WHETHER IT WAS OKAY FOR MUSLIMS TO FIGHT IN THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN OKAY FOR MUSLIMS TO FIGHT IN THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AGAINST BIN LADEN AND TO KILL THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN AGAINST BIN LADEN AND TO KILL HIM BECAUSE IT WOULD BE AGAINST BIN LADEN AND TO KILL HIM BECAUSE IT WOULD BE KILLING A FELLOW MUSLIM. HIM BECAUSE IT WOULD BE KILLING A FELLOW MUSLIM. THIS QUESTION WAS GIVEN TO KILLING A FELLOW MUSLIM. THIS QUESTION WAS GIVEN TO FIVE MAJOR MUFTIS IN THE ARAB THIS QUESTION WAS GIVEN TO FIVE MAJOR MUFTIS IN THE ARAB WORLD AND THEY DEFINED THIS FIVE MAJOR MUFTIS IN THE ARAB WORLD AND THEY DEFINED THIS ACT OF 9/11 AS AN ACT OF WORLD AND THEY DEFINED THIS ACT OF 9/11 AS AN ACT OF TERRORISM, HIRABAH, AND SAID ACT OF 9/11 AS AN ACT OF TERRORISM, HIRABAH, AND SAID IT IS A CAPITAL CRIME, AND TERRORISM, HIRABAH, AND SAID IT IS A CAPITAL CRIME, AND THIS WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH IT IS A CAPITAL CRIME, AND THIS WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH ISLAMIC LAW. THIS WAS IN ACCORDANCE WITH ISLAMIC LAW. I BEGGED THEM TO PUT THIS ISLAMIC LAW. I BEGGED THEM TO PUT THIS STORY ON THE FRONT PAGE OF I BEGGED THEM TO PUT THIS STORY ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NATION CHALLENGE SECTION, STORY ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NATION CHALLENGE SECTION, IF NOT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE THE NATION CHALLENGE SECTION, IF NOT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE FIRST SECTION. IF NOT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE FIRST SECTION. UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS BURIED FIRST SECTION. UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS BURIED ON PAGE EIGHT OF THE NATION UNFORTUNATELY, IT WAS BURIED ON PAGE EIGHT OF THE NATION CHALLENGE SECTION. ON PAGE EIGHT OF THE NATION CHALLENGE SECTION. THESE KINDS OF STORIES, I CHALLENGE SECTION. THESE KINDS OF STORIES, I THINK -- THAT PARTICULAR -- I THESE KINDS OF STORIES, I THINK -- THAT PARTICULAR -- I SAID THIS PARTICULAR STORY THINK -- THAT PARTICULAR -- I SAID THIS PARTICULAR STORY ABOUT THIS FATWA, AND SAID THIS PARTICULAR STORY ABOUT THIS FATWA, AND JURISPRUDENCE AND THE LOGIC ABOUT THIS FATWA, AND JURISPRUDENCE AND THE LOGIC BEHIND IT WOULD BE VERY JURISPRUDENCE AND THE LOGIC BEHIND IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO AMERICANS AND BEHIND IT WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING TO AMERICANS AND BE VERY IMPORTANT TO SHOW THE INTERESTING TO AMERICANS AND BE VERY IMPORTANT TO SHOW THE KIND OF UNDERSTANDING, THE BE VERY IMPORTANT TO SHOW THE KIND OF UNDERSTANDING, THE KIND OF OPINIONS WHICH ARE KIND OF UNDERSTANDING, THE KIND OF OPINIONS WHICH ARE AVAILABLE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD KIND OF OPINIONS WHICH ARE AVAILABLE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN. AVAILABLE IN THE MUSLIM WORLD ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN. AND AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT AWARE ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN. AND AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF THIS, BUT THE RETIRED AND AGAIN, YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF THIS, BUT THE RETIRED CHIEF JUSTICE OF MALAYSIA HAS OF THIS, BUT THE RETIRED CHIEF JUSTICE OF MALAYSIA HAS A VERY INTERESTING PAPER ON CHIEF JUSTICE OF MALAYSIA HAS A VERY INTERESTING PAPER ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN, AND HOW A VERY INTERESTING PAPER ON THE ISSUE OF WOMEN, AND HOW HE INTERPRETED THE ISSUE OF THE ISSUE OF WOMEN, AND HOW HE INTERPRETED THE ISSUE OF -- NOT HAVING BEEN FIXED BY HE INTERPRETED THE ISSUE OF -- NOT HAVING BEEN FIXED BY THE TIME OF PROPHET BUT -- NOT HAVING BEEN FIXED BY THE TIME OF PROPHET BUT HAVING BEEN INVOLVED. THE TIME OF PROPHET BUT HAVING BEEN INVOLVED. THE BANNING OF SLAVERY IS HAVING BEEN INVOLVED. THE BANNING OF SLAVERY IS CONSISTENT WITH THESEITH THE BANNING OF SLAVERY IS CONSISTENT WITH THESEITH O'CLOCKS. CONSISTENT WITH THESEITH O'CLOCKS. SO HE ARGUED ON A SIMILAR O'CLOCKS. SO HE ARGUED ON A SIMILAR BASIS, ACCOMPLISHED FOR WOMEN SO HE ARGUED ON A SIMILAR BASIS, ACCOMPLISHED FOR WOMEN IN THAT TIME, THAT WE TOO AS BASIS, ACCOMPLISHED FOR WOMEN IN THAT TIME, THAT WE TOO AS TIME GOES ON HAVE TO ADVANCE IN THAT TIME, THAT WE TOO AS TIME GOES ON HAVE TO ADVANCE THE ULTIMATE OBJECTIVES OF TIME GOES ON HAVE TO ADVANCE THE ULTIMATE OBJECTIVES OF ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE TO THE ULTIMATE OBJECTIVES OF ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE TO CONTINUOUSLY PERFECT THE ISLAMIC JURISPRUDENCE TO CONTINUOUSLY PERFECT THE REALITY OF THE COMMUNITY TO CONTINUOUSLY PERFECT THE REALITY OF THE COMMUNITY TO THE IDEALS OF OUR FAITH. REALITY OF THE COMMUNITY TO THE IDEALS OF OUR FAITH. SO THESE DEBATES HAVE BEEN THE IDEALS OF OUR FAITH. SO THESE DEBATES HAVE BEEN GOING ON. SO THESE DEBATES HAVE BEEN GOING ON. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOU GOING ON. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THEM. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THEM. >> THERE'S NO CHARGE. DON'T HEAR ABOUT THEM. >> THERE'S NO CHARGE. THERE'S NO CALL COUNTRY THAT >> THERE'S NO CHARGE. THERE'S NO CALL COUNTRY THAT CAN SAY NOW, THIS IS THE THERE'S NO CALL COUNTRY THAT CAN SAY NOW, THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING IN. CAN SAY NOW, THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE'RE GOING IN. BUT TODAY, I'VE BEEN FOLLOW DIRECTION WE'RE GOING IN. BUT TODAY, I'VE BEEN FOLLOW ING THE ARAB SPRING AND BUT TODAY, I'VE BEEN FOLLOW ING THE ARAB SPRING AND I SEE GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENTS, ING THE ARAB SPRING AND I SEE GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENTS, WOMEN THAT ORGANIZE I SEE GRASS ROOTS MOVEMENTS, WOMEN THAT ORGANIZE THEMSELVES IN THE VARIOUS WOMEN THAT ORGANIZE THEMSELVES IN THE VARIOUS COUNTRIES WHO ARE FIGHTING THEMSELVES IN THE VARIOUS COUNTRIES WHO ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR RIGHTS, HEM SEXUALS COUNTRIES WHO ARE FIGHTING FOR THEIR RIGHTS, HEM SEXUALS WHO ORGANIZE THEMSELVES, FOR THEIR RIGHTS, HEM SEXUALS WHO ORGANIZE THEMSELVES, EX-MUSLIMS, MAAJID, WHAT IS WHO ORGANIZE THEMSELVES, EX-MUSLIMS, MAAJID, WHAT IS YOUR STATUS. EX-MUSLIMS, MAAJID, WHAT IS YOUR STATUS. ALMOST -- YOUR STATUS. ALMOST -- >> GET EXCOMMUNICATED. ALMOST -- >> GET EXCOMMUNICATED. >> ALMOSTEX MUSLIM. >> GET EXCOMMUNICATED. >> ALMOSTEX MUSLIM. SO THERE ARE -- >> ALMOSTEX MUSLIM. SO THERE ARE -- >> [LAUGHTER] SO THERE ARE -- >> [LAUGHTER] >> IS SHE GOING TO GET ME >> [LAUGHTER] >> IS SHE GOING TO GET ME KILLED OR WHAT? >> IS SHE GOING TO GET ME KILLED OR WHAT? >> I'M HAPPY WITH YOUR KILLED OR WHAT? >> I'M HAPPY WITH YOUR EVOLUTION. >> I'M HAPPY WITH YOUR EVOLUTION. WE DEBATED THREE YEARS AGO. EVOLUTION. WE DEBATED THREE YEARS AGO. WHAT YOU SAID TONIGHT AND WE DEBATED THREE YEARS AGO. WHAT YOU SAID TONIGHT AND THREE YEARS AGO ARE QUITE WHAT YOU SAID TONIGHT AND THREE YEARS AGO ARE QUITE DIFFERENT AND IT'S AN THREE YEARS AGO ARE QUITE DIFFERENT AND IT'S AN EVOLUTION I'M HAPPY WITH! DIFFERENT AND IT'S AN EVOLUTION I'M HAPPY WITH! >> [LAUGHTER] EVOLUTION I'M HAPPY WITH! >> [LAUGHTER] >> THERE ARE THESE SEEMINGLY >> [LAUGHTER] >> THERE ARE THESE SEEMINGLY SMALL GROUPS, BUT THEY ARE A >> THERE ARE THESE SEEMINGLY SMALL GROUPS, BUT THEY ARE A GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND SMALL GROUPS, BUT THEY ARE A GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND I THINK IN A WAY, IT IS GOOD GROWING NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND I THINK IN A WAY, IT IS GOOD THAT WE NO LONGER NEED -- AND I THINK IN A WAY, IT IS GOOD THAT WE NO LONGER NEED -- AND I REALLY MEAN RESPECTFULLY -- THAT WE NO LONGER NEED -- AND I REALLY MEAN RESPECTFULLY -- THE HOUSE OF ISLAM IS NO I REALLY MEAN RESPECTFULLY -- THE HOUSE OF ISLAM IS NO LONGER GOING TO RELY ON THE THE HOUSE OF ISLAM IS NO LONGER GOING TO RELY ON THE CLERGYMEN AND MUSLIM SCHOLARS LONGER GOING TO RELY ON THE CLERGYMEN AND MUSLIM SCHOLARS TO ADVANCE THE QUALITY OF CLERGYMEN AND MUSLIM SCHOLARS TO ADVANCE THE QUALITY OF THEIR LIVES AND TO LIVE TO ADVANCE THE QUALITY OF THEIR LIVES AND TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THEIR THEIR LIVES AND TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THEIR CONSCIENCES. ACCORDING TO THEIR CONSCIENCES. PEOPLE ARE TAKING THAT CONSCIENCES. PEOPLE ARE TAKING THAT OPPORTUNITY THEMSELVES. PEOPLE ARE TAKING THAT OPPORTUNITY THEMSELVES. AND IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF OPPORTUNITY THEMSELVES. AND IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE EITHER THERE IS A AND IT'S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE EITHER THERE IS A REFORMATION OR THE MAJORITY TIME BEFORE EITHER THERE IS A REFORMATION OR THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS WILL BE REFORMATION OR THE MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS WILL BE EX-MUSLIMS. OF MUSLIMS WILL BE EX-MUSLIMS. >> [APPLAUSE] EX-MUSLIMS. >> [APPLAUSE] >> I HAVE A QUESTION. >> [APPLAUSE] >> I HAVE A QUESTION. IT'S NOT SIGNED, BUT IT'S A >> I HAVE A QUESTION. IT'S NOT SIGNED, BUT IT'S A PRETTY GOOD QUESTION. IT'S NOT SIGNED, BUT IT'S A PRETTY GOOD QUESTION. THE WORD JIHAD HAS NOT COME PRETTY GOOD QUESTION. THE WORD JIHAD HAS NOT COME UP ONCE TONIGHT. THE WORD JIHAD HAS NOT COME UP ONCE TONIGHT. IS THIS TERM NOT A HUGE PART UP ONCE TONIGHT. IS THIS TERM NOT A HUGE PART OF THE PERCEPTION OF ISLAM AS IS THIS TERM NOT A HUGE PART OF THE PERCEPTION OF ISLAM AS A VIOLENT RELIGION? OF THE PERCEPTION OF ISLAM AS A VIOLENT RELIGION? >> CERTAINLY. A VIOLENT RELIGION? >> CERTAINLY. THE WORD JIHAD MEANS TO >> CERTAINLY. THE WORD JIHAD MEANS TO STRIVE IN THE WAY OF GOD, AND THE WORD JIHAD MEANS TO STRIVE IN THE WAY OF GOD, AND STRIVING IN THE WAY OF GOD IS STRIVE IN THE WAY OF GOD, AND STRIVING IN THE WAY OF GOD IS SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US ARE STRIVING IN THE WAY OF GOD IS SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US ARE MEANT TO DO. SOMETHING THAT ALL OF US ARE MEANT TO DO. THE WORD JIHAD IN OUR MEANT TO DO. THE WORD JIHAD IN OUR JURISPRUDENCE, THEOLOGIES, THE WORD JIHAD IN OUR JURISPRUDENCE, THEOLOGIES, REFERS NOT ONLY TO AN ACT OF JURISPRUDENCE, THEOLOGIES, REFERS NOT ONLY TO AN ACT OF A JUST WAR, BUT THE PROPHET REFERS NOT ONLY TO AN ACT OF A JUST WAR, BUT THE PROPHET SAID IN ONE OF HIS MAJOR A JUST WAR, BUT THE PROPHET SAID IN ONE OF HIS MAJOR SAYINGS AFTER HE CAME BACK SAID IN ONE OF HIS MAJOR SAYINGS AFTER HE CAME BACK FROM BATTLE, HE SAID WE ARE SAYINGS AFTER HE CAME BACK FROM BATTLE, HE SAID WE ARE RETURNING FROM THE MINOR FROM BATTLE, HE SAID WE ARE RETURNING FROM THE MINOR JIHAD TO THE GREATER JIHAD, RETURNING FROM THE MINOR JIHAD TO THE GREATER JIHAD, AND WHEN HIS COMPANIONS WERE JIHAD TO THE GREATER JIHAD, AND WHEN HIS COMPANIONS WERE BOTHERED BY IT, HE SAID THE AND WHEN HIS COMPANIONS WERE BOTHERED BY IT, HE SAID THE JIHAD AGAINST ITSELF, SO THE BOTHERED BY IT, HE SAID THE JIHAD AGAINST ITSELF, SO THE CONCEPT OF JIHAD REALLY IS JIHAD AGAINST ITSELF, SO THE CONCEPT OF JIHAD REALLY IS THE CONSTANT STRIVING THAT WE CONCEPT OF JIHAD REALLY IS THE CONSTANT STRIVING THAT WE HAVE TO IMPROVE BOTH THE CONSTANT STRIVING THAT WE HAVE TO IMPROVE BOTH OURSELVES AND OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE TO IMPROVE BOTH OURSELVES AND OUR COMMUNITIES AND THE WORLD, OR A PWR-B OURSELVES AND OUR COMMUNITIES AND THE WORLD, OR A PWR-B PLACE. AND THE WORLD, OR A PWR-B PLACE. -- TO BE BETTER PLACE. PLACE. -- TO BE BETTER PLACE. OF COURSE, THE MILITARY -- TO BE BETTER PLACE. OF COURSE, THE MILITARY ASPECT IS ONE INTERPRETATION, OF COURSE, THE MILITARY ASPECT IS ONE INTERPRETATION, AND THAT'S THE ONE WHICH HAS ASPECT IS ONE INTERPRETATION, AND THAT'S THE ONE WHICH HAS BECOME MORE EMPHASIZED IN THE AND THAT'S THE ONE WHICH HAS BECOME MORE EMPHASIZED IN THE PERCEPTION OF MANY NONMUSLIMS BECOME MORE EMPHASIZED IN THE PERCEPTION OF MANY NONMUSLIMS AND IN THE PERCEPTION OF THE PERCEPTION OF MANY NONMUSLIMS AND IN THE PERCEPTION OF THE MILITANTS, THE KIND OF PEOPLE AND IN THE PERCEPTION OF THE MILITANTS, THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO RECRUIT THE KIND OF MILITANTS, THE KIND OF PEOPLE WHO RECRUIT THE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT MAAJID WAS. WHO RECRUIT THE KIND OF PEOPLE THAT MAAJID WAS. >> SO JUST TO TOUCH ON THAT, PEOPLE THAT MAAJID WAS. >> SO JUST TO TOUCH ON THAT, WHAT AAYAN SAID ABOUT MY >> SO JUST TO TOUCH ON THAT, WHAT AAYAN SAID ABOUT MY STATE OF FAITH -- LOOK, I WHAT AAYAN SAID ABOUT MY STATE OF FAITH -- LOOK, I WANT TO TELL A STORY HERE, STATE OF FAITH -- LOOK, I WANT TO TELL A STORY HERE, OKAY? WANT TO TELL A STORY HERE, OKAY? I JOINED THE RADICAL ISLAMIST OKAY? I JOINED THE RADICAL ISLAMIST GROUP, HIZB UT-TAHRIR, AT 16 I JOINED THE RADICAL ISLAMIST GROUP, HIZB UT-TAHRIR, AT 16 YEARS OLD. GROUP, HIZB UT-TAHRIR, AT 16 YEARS OLD. I USED TO TRY AND RECRUIT YEARS OLD. I USED TO TRY AND RECRUIT PEOPLE. I USED TO TRY AND RECRUIT PEOPLE. AS I MENTIONED, I DIDN'T PEOPLE. AS I MENTIONED, I DIDN'T SKWRAOEUPB FELLOW MOSQUE. AS I MENTIONED, I DIDN'T SKWRAOEUPB FELLOW MOSQUE. WE TRIED TO RECRUIT PEOPLE SKWRAOEUPB FELLOW MOSQUE. WE TRIED TO RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM MOSQUES. WE TRIED TO RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM MOSQUES. AROUND THE AGE OF 18 YEARS FROM MOSQUES. AROUND THE AGE OF 18 YEARS OLD, I WAS PUNCHED AROUND THE AROUND THE AGE OF 18 YEARS OLD, I WAS PUNCHED AROUND THE FACE OUTSIDE OF A MOSQUE BY A OLD, I WAS PUNCHED AROUND THE FACE OUTSIDE OF A MOSQUE BY A MOSQUE WORSHIPER WHO CAME OUT FACE OUTSIDE OF A MOSQUE BY A MOSQUE WORSHIPER WHO CAME OUT AND SAID YOU ARE RUINING OUR MOSQUE WORSHIPER WHO CAME OUT AND SAID YOU ARE RUINING OUR IMAGE AND RELIGION. AND SAID YOU ARE RUINING OUR IMAGE AND RELIGION. YOU ARE PERVERTING OUR FAITH. IMAGE AND RELIGION. YOU ARE PERVERTING OUR FAITH. GET AWAY FROM HERE. YOU ARE PERVERTING OUR FAITH. GET AWAY FROM HERE. I REFUSED TO MOVE. GET AWAY FROM HERE. I REFUSED TO MOVE. MY FLYER THAT I WAS HANDING I REFUSED TO MOVE. MY FLYER THAT I WAS HANDING OUT SIMPLY SAID MOHAMMED WAS MY FLYER THAT I WAS HANDING OUT SIMPLY SAID MOHAMMED WAS A POLITICIAN. OUT SIMPLY SAID MOHAMMED WAS A POLITICIAN. THAT'S ALL IT SAID. A POLITICIAN. THAT'S ALL IT SAID. AND THAT PROVOKED HIM, THAT'S ALL IT SAID. AND THAT PROVOKED HIM, BECAUSE HE SAID HOW DARE YOU AND THAT PROVOKED HIM, BECAUSE HE SAID HOW DARE YOU BRING POLITICS INTO OUR BECAUSE HE SAID HOW DARE YOU BRING POLITICS INTO OUR MOSQUE, GET AWAY FROM HERE. BRING POLITICS INTO OUR MOSQUE, GET AWAY FROM HERE. AND HE PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE MOSQUE, GET AWAY FROM HERE. AND HE PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE AND BASICALLY THERE WAS A BIT AND HE PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE AND BASICALLY THERE WAS A BIT OF A STRUGGLE AND I LEFT IN AND BASICALLY THERE WAS A BIT OF A STRUGGLE AND I LEFT IN THE END. OF A STRUGGLE AND I LEFT IN THE END. I WAS TOO SMALL TO SORT OF -- THE END. I WAS TOO SMALL TO SORT OF -- HE WAS QUITE A BIG MAN. I WAS TOO SMALL TO SORT OF -- HE WAS QUITE A BIG MAN. >> I BET YOU LIKE THAT GUY HE WAS QUITE A BIG MAN. >> I BET YOU LIKE THAT GUY NOW. >> I BET YOU LIKE THAT GUY NOW. >> WELL, THIS IS WHAT NOW. >> WELL, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED NEXT. >> WELL, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED NEXT. FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS, WELL, HAPPENED NEXT. FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS, WELL, 15 YEARS, AND I LEFT H*EUB FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS, WELL, 15 YEARS, AND I LEFT H*EUB H*EUB, AND I BEGAN TRYING TO 15 YEARS, AND I LEFT H*EUB H*EUB, AND I BEGAN TRYING TO -- I WAS IN PAKISTAN, AND I'M H*EUB, AND I BEGAN TRYING TO -- I WAS IN PAKISTAN, AND I'M BASICALLY TRYING TO TELL -- I WAS IN PAKISTAN, AND I'M BASICALLY TRYING TO TELL YOUNG MUSLIMS THERE THAT WE BASICALLY TRYING TO TELL YOUNG MUSLIMS THERE THAT WE MUST NOT CRIT KAOEUZ OUR YOUNG MUSLIMS THERE THAT WE MUST NOT CRIT KAOEUZ OUR RELIGION -- CRITICIZE OUR MUST NOT CRIT KAOEUZ OUR RELIGION -- CRITICIZE OUR RELIGION AND I GOT PUNCHED IN RELIGION -- CRITICIZE OUR RELIGION AND I GOT PUNCHED IN THE FACE AGAIN! RELIGION AND I GOT PUNCHED IN THE FACE AGAIN! THIS TIME, BAY MEMBER OF MY THE FACE AGAIN! THIS TIME, BAY MEMBER OF MY FORMER GROUP. THIS TIME, BAY MEMBER OF MY FORMER GROUP. HE JUMPED ACROSS AND -- HE FORMER GROUP. HE JUMPED ACROSS AND -- HE WAS AN AMATEUR BOXER SO AGAIN HE JUMPED ACROSS AND -- HE WAS AN AMATEUR BOXER SO AGAIN I HAD NO CHANCE, HE KNOCKED WAS AN AMATEUR BOXER SO AGAIN I HAD NO CHANCE, HE KNOCKED ME TO THE FLOOR. I HAD NO CHANCE, HE KNOCKED ME TO THE FLOOR. THE MORALE IS THE FOLLOWING: ME TO THE FLOOR. THE MORALE IS THE FOLLOWING: LOOK, DEBATES MOVE ON AND THE MORALE IS THE FOLLOWING: LOOK, DEBATES MOVE ON AND IDEAS CHANGE. LOOK, DEBATES MOVE ON AND IDEAS CHANGE. WHEN I FIRST STARTED IDEAS CHANGE. WHEN I FIRST STARTED PREACHING ISLAMISM, IT WAS WHEN I FIRST STARTED PREACHING ISLAMISM, IT WAS ALIEN TO MUZ FILM EARS TO THE PREACHING ISLAMISM, IT WAS ALIEN TO MUZ FILM EARS TO THE POINT WHERE IT PROVOKED ALIEN TO MUZ FILM EARS TO THE POINT WHERE IT PROVOKED VIOLENCE. POINT WHERE IT PROVOKED VIOLENCE. BY THE TIME I TRIED TO VIOLENCE. BY THE TIME I TRIED TO REVERSE THE ISLAMISM THAT I BY THE TIME I TRIED TO REVERSE THE ISLAMISM THAT I PLAYED A PART IN PROPAGATING, REVERSE THE ISLAMISM THAT I PLAYED A PART IN PROPAGATING, IT WAS A DEFAULT, AND SAYING PLAYED A PART IN PROPAGATING, IT WAS A DEFAULT, AND SAYING WE MUST DIVORCE ISLAM FROM IT WAS A DEFAULT, AND SAYING WE MUST DIVORCE ISLAM FROM POLITICS BECAME ALIEN TO WE MUST DIVORCE ISLAM FROM POLITICS BECAME ALIEN TO MUSLIM EARS, AND THIS IS MY POLITICS BECAME ALIEN TO MUSLIM EARS, AND THIS IS MY POINT. MUSLIM EARS, AND THIS IS MY POINT. WHEN I DEBATED YOU TWO YEARS POINT. WHEN I DEBATED YOU TWO YEARS AGO, BASICALLY THE DEBATE HAS WHEN I DEBATED YOU TWO YEARS AGO, BASICALLY THE DEBATE HAS MOVED. AGO, BASICALLY THE DEBATE HAS MOVED. IT'S SHIFTED EVEN SINCE THEN. MOVED. IT'S SHIFTED EVEN SINCE THEN. I AM ABLE TO SAY A LOT MORE IT'S SHIFTED EVEN SINCE THEN. I AM ABLE TO SAY A LOT MORE THINGS OPENLY NOW THAN I WAS I AM ABLE TO SAY A LOT MORE THINGS OPENLY NOW THAN I WAS EVEN THEN. THINGS OPENLY NOW THAN I WAS EVEN THEN. >> EVEN IN TWO YEARS. EVEN THEN. >> EVEN IN TWO YEARS. >> EVEN WITHIN TWO YEARS. >> EVEN IN TWO YEARS. >> EVEN WITHIN TWO YEARS. THE DEBATE HAS SHIFTED TO A >> EVEN WITHIN TWO YEARS. THE DEBATE HAS SHIFTED TO A POINT WHERE I CAN SIT HERE THE DEBATE HAS SHIFTED TO A POINT WHERE I CAN SIT HERE AND SAY OPENLY, FEELING POINT WHERE I CAN SIT HERE AND SAY OPENLY, FEELING RELATIVELY MORE SECURE FOR MY AND SAY OPENLY, FEELING RELATIVELY MORE SECURE FOR MY POSITION IN BRITAIN, THAT WE RELATIVELY MORE SECURE FOR MY POSITION IN BRITAIN, THAT WE HAVE TO AS MUSLIMS COME TO POSITION IN BRITAIN, THAT WE HAVE TO AS MUSLIMS COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT WHEN HAVE TO AS MUSLIMS COME TO TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT WHEN PEOPLE'S CONSCIENCE TELLS TERMS WITH THE FACT THAT WHEN PEOPLE'S CONSCIENCE TELLS THEM TO LEAVE THE FAITH, THEY PEOPLE'S CONSCIENCE TELLS THEM TO LEAVE THE FAITH, THEY ARE OBHRAOEUPBLG DOLLARS TO THEM TO LEAVE THE FAITH, THEY ARE OBHRAOEUPBLG DOLLARS TO -- OBAOEUPBLG DOLLARS -- ARE OBHRAOEUPBLG DOLLARS TO -- OBAOEUPBLG DOLLARS -- OBLIGED TO FOLLOW THEIR -- OBAOEUPBLG DOLLARS -- OBLIGED TO FOLLOW THEIR CONSCIENCE. OBLIGED TO FOLLOW THEIR CONSCIENCE. I CAN SAY THAT CONFIDENTLY CONSCIENCE. I CAN SAY THAT CONFIDENTLY BECAUSE I KNOW AMONG THE I CAN SAY THAT CONFIDENTLY BECAUSE I KNOW AMONG THE THEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE THAT BECAUSE I KNOW AMONG THE THEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE THAT DEBATE GLOBALLY HAS SHIFTED, THEOLOGICAL DISCOURSE THAT DEBATE GLOBALLY HAS SHIFTED, SO I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT DEBATE GLOBALLY HAS SHIFTED, SO I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD AS SO I AM OPTIMISTIC THAT THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD AS WELL. THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD AS WELL. >> ONE COMMENT. WELL. >> ONE COMMENT. IN 2003, WE MET AN AYATOLLAH, >> ONE COMMENT. IN 2003, WE MET AN AYATOLLAH, WHOSE NAME I SHALL NOT IN 2003, WE MET AN AYATOLLAH, WHOSE NAME I SHALL NOT MENTION, WHO WAS UNDER HOUSE WHOSE NAME I SHALL NOT MENTION, WHO WAS UNDER HOUSE ARREST AT THE TIME, AND HE MENTION, WHO WAS UNDER HOUSE ARREST AT THE TIME, AND HE TOLD US, WHOEVER FOLLOWS HIS ARREST AT THE TIME, AND HE TOLD US, WHOEVER FOLLOWS HIS OR HER CONSCIENCE, TRULY TOLD US, WHOEVER FOLLOWS HIS OR HER CONSCIENCE, TRULY FOLLOWS THEIR CONSCIENCE, IS OR HER CONSCIENCE, TRULY FOLLOWS THEIR CONSCIENCE, IS A MUSLIM, EVEN IF THEY ARE FOLLOWS THEIR CONSCIENCE, IS A MUSLIM, EVEN IF THEY ARE PROSY SIZED. A MUSLIM, EVEN IF THEY ARE PROSY SIZED. -- PROSELYTIZED. PROSY SIZED. -- PROSELYTIZED. >> SO YOU'RE IN! -- PROSELYTIZED. >> SO YOU'RE IN! >> THE NEXT QUESTION, I AM >> SO YOU'RE IN! >> THE NEXT QUESTION, I AM VIRTUALLY CERTAIN YOU HAVE >> THE NEXT QUESTION, I AM VIRTUALLY CERTAIN YOU HAVE NOT PREPARED AN ANSWER FOR VIRTUALLY CERTAIN YOU HAVE NOT PREPARED AN ANSWER FOR THIS, ANY ONE OF THE THREE OF NOT PREPARED AN ANSWER FOR THIS, ANY ONE OF THE THREE OF YOU. THIS, ANY ONE OF THE THREE OF YOU. WE CHANGE THE WORLD BY WHAT YOU. WE CHANGE THE WORLD BY WHAT WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN. WE CHANGE THE WORLD BY WHAT WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN. WHAT WOULD MOHAMMED SAY IF HE WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN. WHAT WOULD MOHAMMED SAY IF HE WERE A MODERN DAY PROPHET TO WHAT WOULD MOHAMMED SAY IF HE WERE A MODERN DAY PROPHET TO ALL OUR CHILDREN ON FACEBOOK WERE A MODERN DAY PROPHET TO ALL OUR CHILDREN ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER? ALL OUR CHILDREN ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER? AND PLEASE REMEMBER, THAT BY AND TWITTER? AND PLEASE REMEMBER, THAT BY OUR CHILDREN, WE MEAN AND PLEASE REMEMBER, THAT BY OUR CHILDREN, WE MEAN CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM, BUDDHIST, OUR CHILDREN, WE MEAN CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM, BUDDHIST, AGNOSTIC, ATHEIST AND SO ON. CHRISTIAN, MUSLIM, BUDDHIST, AGNOSTIC, ATHEIST AND SO ON. >> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR A AGNOSTIC, ATHEIST AND SO ON. >> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR A DEAD MAN. >> WELL, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR A DEAD MAN. IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. DEAD MAN. IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. I WOULD SAY THAT FOR PEOPLE IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL. I WOULD SAY THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW -- MOHAMMED I WOULD SAY THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW -- MOHAMMED CAME, AND HE INNOVATED WHO, YOU KNOW -- MOHAMMED CAME, AND HE INNOVATED RELIGION PH MECCA -- IN CAME, AND HE INNOVATED RELIGION PH MECCA -- IN MECCA, IN HIS OWN TILE AND RELIGION PH MECCA -- IN MECCA, IN HIS OWN TILE AND PERHAPS HE WOULD INNOVATE. MECCA, IN HIS OWN TILE AND PERHAPS HE WOULD INNOVATE. HE WOULD PROBABLY THROW ONE PERHAPS HE WOULD INNOVATE. HE WOULD PROBABLY THROW ONE SIDE OF THE CURAN INTO THE HE WOULD PROBABLY THROW ONE SIDE OF THE CURAN INTO THE RUBBISH BIN AND SAY LET'S SIDE OF THE CURAN INTO THE RUBBISH BIN AND SAY LET'S START ALL OVER AGAIN. RUBBISH BIN AND SAY LET'S START ALL OVER AGAIN. AND MAYBE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE START ALL OVER AGAIN. AND MAYBE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WHO COULD DO IT. AND MAYBE HE WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WHO COULD DO IT. >> IF HE HAD DONE THAT, HE THAT WHO COULD DO IT. >> IF HE HAD DONE THAT, HE WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY OF >> IF HE HAD DONE THAT, HE WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY OF GOD TO DO SO, SO IT WOULD WOULD HAVE THE AUTHORITY OF GOD TO DO SO, SO IT WOULD STILL BE A REVELATION. GOD TO DO SO, SO IT WOULD STILL BE A REVELATION. >> WHY DO YOU NEED PROPHET STILL BE A REVELATION. >> WHY DO YOU NEED PROPHET TOSS MAKE CHANGES? >> WHY DO YOU NEED PROPHET TOSS MAKE CHANGES? >> I DIDN'T SAY -- I WAS TOSS MAKE CHANGES? >> I DIDN'T SAY -- I WAS SAYING -- >> I DIDN'T SAY -- I WAS SAYING -- >> ARE WE ON FACEBOOK? SAYING -- >> ARE WE ON FACEBOOK? >> TAS -- FACEBOOK AND >> ARE WE ON FACEBOOK? >> TAS -- FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. >> TAS -- FACEBOOK AND TWITTER. >> THE PROPHET MOHAMMED WAS TWITTER. >> THE PROPHET MOHAMMED WAS RELATIVELY PROGRESSIVE FOR >> THE PROPHET MOHAMMED WAS RELATIVELY PROGRESSIVE FOR THE DESERT AGE THEY CAME RELATIVELY PROGRESSIVE FOR THE DESERT AGE THEY CAME FROM, RIGHT? THE DESERT AGE THEY CAME FROM, RIGHT? SO I THINK IN THAT SPIRIT, IF FROM, RIGHT? SO I THINK IN THAT SPIRIT, IF HE WAS AROUND TODAY, HE WOULD SO I THINK IN THAT SPIRIT, IF HE WAS AROUND TODAY, HE WOULD PROBABLY TELL THE MUSLIMS HE WAS AROUND TODAY, HE WOULD PROBABLY TELL THE MUSLIMS THAT HE SEES TO GET OUT THE PROBABLY TELL THE MUSLIMS THAT HE SEES TO GET OUT THE STONE AGE, OUT OF THE THAT HE SEES TO GET OUT THE STONE AGE, OUT OF THE MEDIEVAL ERA, AND GET WITH STONE AGE, OUT OF THE MEDIEVAL ERA, AND GET WITH THE TIMES. MEDIEVAL ERA, AND GET WITH THE TIMES. >> DAVID AND JANE CURNEY ASK, THE TIMES. >> DAVID AND JANE CURNEY ASK, WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> DAVID AND JANE CURNEY ASK, WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> I HAVE A REQUEST. WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> I HAVE A REQUEST. AMERICANS, SINCE >> I HAVE A REQUEST. AMERICANS, SINCE SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, HAS BEEN AMERICANS, SINCE SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, HAS BEEN HELPING AND FOCUSING, AND SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, HAS BEEN HELPING AND FOCUSING, AND PICKING LEADERS, THOSE WHO HELPING AND FOCUSING, AND PICKING LEADERS, THOSE WHO SAY ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PICKING LEADERS, THOSE WHO SAY ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE AND WHO TRY TO SAY ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE AND WHO TRY TO INTERPRET THIS AND TRIES TO PEACE AND WHO TRY TO INTERPRET THIS AND TRIES TO TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR. INTERPRET THIS AND TRIES TO TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR. I WANT TO SAY, PLEASE, TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR. I WANT TO SAY, PLEASE, AMERICANS, WHETHER IT IS I WANT TO SAY, PLEASE, AMERICANS, WHETHER IT IS POLITICIANS OR CIVIL SOCIETY, AMERICANS, WHETHER IT IS POLITICIANS OR CIVIL SOCIETY, THERE ARE NOW INDIVIDUALS, POLITICIANS OR CIVIL SOCIETY, THERE ARE NOW INDIVIDUALS, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE ARAB THERE ARE NOW INDIVIDUALS, ESPECIALLY IN THOSE ARAB SPRING COUNTRIES, WOMEN ESPECIALLY IN THOSE ARAB SPRING COUNTRIES, WOMEN FIGHTING FOR OUR WOMEN'S SPRING COUNTRIES, WOMEN FIGHTING FOR OUR WOMEN'S RIGHTS, HOMOSEXUAL MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR OUR WOMEN'S RIGHTS, HOMOSEXUAL MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, HOMOSEXUAL MUSLIMS FIGHTING FOR THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, RELIGIOUS MINORITIES, FIGHTING FOR THEIR CIVIL RIGHTS, RELIGIOUS MINORITIES, THESE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS AND RIGHTS, RELIGIOUS MINORITIES, THESE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS AND THE GROUPS THAT YOU NEED TO THESE ARE THE INDIVIDUALS AND THE GROUPS THAT YOU NEED TO HELP. THE GROUPS THAT YOU NEED TO HELP. THEY ARE FLOUNDERING, THEY HELP. THEY ARE FLOUNDERING, THEY ARE UNDERRESOURCED, AND THEY THEY ARE FLOUNDERING, THEY ARE UNDERRESOURCED, AND THEY ARE OUR ALEYES WHEN IT COMES ARE UNDERRESOURCED, AND THEY ARE OUR ALEYES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR -- ALLIES WHEN IT ARE OUR ALEYES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR -- ALLIES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR VALUE SYSTEMS OF TO OUR -- ALLIES WHEN IT COMES TO OUR VALUE SYSTEMS OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND COMES TO OUR VALUE SYSTEMS OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND CONSCIENCE. INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM AND CONSCIENCE. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED CONSCIENCE. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED OUR HELP. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO NEED OUR HELP. WE NEED TO SHIFT AND START OUR HELP. WE NEED TO SHIFT AND START HELPING THEM. WE NEED TO SHIFT AND START HELPING THEM. >> HELPING THEM. >> >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION, WHAT >> >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION, WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION, WHAT CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, CAN AMERICA DO TO HELP? >> AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE REAL BATTLEFRONT IS NOT >> AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, THE REAL BATTLEFRONT IS NOT BETWEEN AMERICANS AND MUSLIMS THE REAL BATTLEFRONT IS NOT BETWEEN AMERICANS AND MUSLIMS AND OTHER FAITH TRADITIONS BETWEEN AMERICANS AND MUSLIMS AND OTHER FAITH TRADITIONS BUT REALLY IS TO GET WHAT I AND OTHER FAITH TRADITIONS BUT REALLY IS TO GET WHAT I CALL A COALITION OF BUT REALLY IS TO GET WHAT I CALL A COALITION OF MODERATES, TEAMS TO FOCUS ON CALL A COALITION OF MODERATES, TEAMS TO FOCUS ON THE SPECIFIC ISSUES WHICH MODERATES, TEAMS TO FOCUS ON THE SPECIFIC ISSUES WHICH HAVE CREATED THIS SENSE OF THE SPECIFIC ISSUES WHICH HAVE CREATED THIS SENSE OF DIVISION AND TO STKREPBGEN HAVE CREATED THIS SENSE OF DIVISION AND TO STKREPBGEN THE MODERATE VOICE, AND DIVISION AND TO STKREPBGEN THE MODERATE VOICE, AND ADDRESS THE CAUSE, THE THE MODERATE VOICE, AND ADDRESS THE CAUSE, THE UNDERLYING CAUSE, OF THE ADDRESS THE CAUSE, THE UNDERLYING CAUSE, OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE SEE TODAY, UNDERLYING CAUSE, OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE SEE TODAY, AND TO WORK TOGETHER. PROBLEMS THAT WE SEE TODAY, AND TO WORK TOGETHER. IT REQUIRES A -- TO WORK AND TO WORK TOGETHER. IT REQUIRES A -- TO WORK TOGETHER ON SEVERAL FRONTS, IT REQUIRES A -- TO WORK TOGETHER ON SEVERAL FRONTS, POLITICAL FRONT, ADDRESSING TOGETHER ON SEVERAL FRONTS, POLITICAL FRONT, ADDRESSING POLITICAL ISSUES, ADDRESS THE POLITICAL FRONT, ADDRESSING POLITICAL ISSUES, ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE, ADDRESS POLITICAL ISSUES, ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE, ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF HUMAN RIGHTS, ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE, ADDRESS THE ISSUES OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND VARIOUS CIVIL RIGHTS, THE ISSUES OF HUMAN RIGHTS, AND VARIOUS CIVIL RIGHTS, INCLUDING THOSE THAT AAYAN AND VARIOUS CIVIL RIGHTS, INCLUDING THOSE THAT AAYAN HAD MENTIONED. INCLUDING THOSE THAT AAYAN HAD MENTIONED. CREATING A RULE OF LAW, A HAD MENTIONED. CREATING A RULE OF LAW, A PROPER RULE OF LAW. CREATING A RULE OF LAW, A PROPER RULE OF LAW. AND THE ISLAMIC RULE OF LAW PROPER RULE OF LAW. AND THE ISLAMIC RULE OF LAW FROM A TRADITION THAT IS AN AND THE ISLAMIC RULE OF LAW FROM A TRADITION THAT IS AN ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. FROM A TRADITION THAT IS AN ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. BECAUSE OUR TRADITION IN ITS ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. BECAUSE OUR TRADITION IN ITS FUNDAMENTAL TIME WAS BECAUSE OUR TRADITION IN ITS FUNDAMENTAL TIME WAS PROGRESSIVE AND WAS AN FUNDAMENTAL TIME WAS PROGRESSIVE AND WAS AN ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. PROGRESSIVE AND WAS AN ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. TO BRING THAT TRADITION BACK. ENLIGHTENED TRADITION. TO BRING THAT TRADITION BACK. AND THAT I THINK IS AMONG THE TO BRING THAT TRADITION BACK. AND THAT I THINK IS AMONG THE THINGS THAT ARE MOST AND THAT I THINK IS AMONG THE THINGS THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS. THINGS THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS. POLITICAL, THEOLOGICAL, IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS. POLITICAL, THEOLOGICAL, RELIGIOUS, AND LEGAL. POLITICAL, THEOLOGICAL, RELIGIOUS, AND LEGAL. >> BUT WHAT'S THE AMERICAN RELIGIOUS, AND LEGAL. >> BUT WHAT'S THE AMERICAN ROLE IN THAT? >> BUT WHAT'S THE AMERICAN ROLE IN THAT? >> AMERICA HAS A LOT OF ROLE IN THAT? >> AMERICA HAS A LOT OF INFLUENCE, BECAUSE AMERICA IS >> AMERICA HAS A LOT OF INFLUENCE, BECAUSE AMERICA IS -- HAS SOFT POWER. INFLUENCE, BECAUSE AMERICA IS -- HAS SOFT POWER. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE VERY -- HAS SOFT POWER. YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE VERY STRONG PRESENCES IN MANY YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE VERY STRONG PRESENCES IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD. STRONG PRESENCES IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD. BUT ALSO, THERE'S SOMETHING PARTS OF THE WORLD. BUT ALSO, THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE. BUT ALSO, THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE ROLE OF ELSE. WHEN I LOOK AT THE ROLE OF AMERICAN RELIGION, LET ME WHEN I LOOK AT THE ROLE OF AMERICAN RELIGION, LET ME CALL IT THAT -- IN OTHER AMERICAN RELIGION, LET ME CALL IT THAT -- IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU LOOK AT -- THE CALL IT THAT -- IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU LOOK AT -- THE AMERICAN CATHOLICS HAD AN WORDS, IF YOU LOOK AT -- THE AMERICAN CATHOLICS HAD AN ENORMOUS INFLUENCE ON THE AMERICAN CATHOLICS HAD AN ENORMOUS INFLUENCE ON THE VATICAN. ENORMOUS INFLUENCE ON THE VATICAN. AMERICAN JUDAISM REFRAMED VATICAN. AMERICAN JUDAISM REFRAMED GLOBAL JUDAISM. AMERICAN JUDAISM REFRAMED GLOBAL JUDAISM. THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT GLOBAL JUDAISM. THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF A ROBUST THAT IS WHY I BELIEVE THAT THE DEVELOPMENT OF A ROBUST AMERICAN ISLAM WILL ALSO HAVE THE DEVELOPMENT OF A ROBUST AMERICAN ISLAM WILL ALSO HAVE A PROCEED FOUND EFFECT UPON AMERICAN ISLAM WILL ALSO HAVE A PROCEED FOUND EFFECT UPON THE MUSLIM WORLD, BECAUSE A PROCEED FOUND EFFECT UPON THE MUSLIM WORLD, BECAUSE AMERICA IS THE MODERN ROME. THE MUSLIM WORLD, BECAUSE AMERICA IS THE MODERN ROME. IT'S A MODERN -- IT'S THE NEW AMERICA IS THE MODERN ROME. IT'S A MODERN -- IT'S THE NEW GLOBAL SUPERPOWER. IT'S A MODERN -- IT'S THE NEW GLOBAL SUPERPOWER. AND ALREADY, MUSLIMS, GLOBAL SUPERPOWER. AND ALREADY, MUSLIMS, AMERICAN MUSLIMS, HAVE BEEN AND ALREADY, MUSLIMS, AMERICAN MUSLIMS, HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND PUNCHING ABOVE AMERICAN MUSLIMS, HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND PUNCHING ABOVE THEIR WEIGHT IN MANY CASES. PLAYING AND PUNCHING ABOVE THEIR WEIGHT IN MANY CASES. I MEAN, THE FACT THAT THEIR WEIGHT IN MANY CASES. I MEAN, THE FACT THAT DEMOCRACY IS BEING ADVANCED I MEAN, THE FACT THAT DEMOCRACY IS BEING ADVANCED IN MANY COUNTRIES EVEN WITH DEMOCRACY IS BEING ADVANCED IN MANY COUNTRIES EVEN WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY IS BECAUSE IN MANY COUNTRIES EVEN WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY IS BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE LOBBYING OUR GREAT DIFFICULTY IS BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE LOBBYING OUR GOVERNMENT FOR THE VALUES AMERICANS ARE LOBBYING OUR GOVERNMENT FOR THE VALUES THAT MUSLIMS SHARE. GOVERNMENT FOR THE VALUES THAT MUSLIMS SHARE. THE PAKISTANI YOUNG MEN WHO THAT MUSLIMS SHARE. THE PAKISTANI YOUNG MEN WHO ARE FIGHTING, I'M SURE AT THE THE PAKISTANI YOUNG MEN WHO ARE FIGHTING, I'M SURE AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE ASKING IF ARE FIGHTING, I'M SURE AT THE SAME TIME THEY ARE ASKING IF THEY CAN HAVE A VISA TO COME SAME TIME THEY ARE ASKING IF THEY CAN HAVE A VISA TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES. THEY CAN HAVE A VISA TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES. >> A BRITISH PASSPORT. TO THE UNITED STATES. >> A BRITISH PASSPORT. >> MY POINT IS, WHEREVER I >> A BRITISH PASSPORT. >> MY POINT IS, WHEREVER I HAVE GONE, I'VE FOUND THAT >> MY POINT IS, WHEREVER I HAVE GONE, I'VE FOUND THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT FOR HAVE GONE, I'VE FOUND THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT FOR THEIR OWN COUNTRY THE KIND OF PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT FOR THEIR OWN COUNTRY THE KIND OF LIFESTYLE WE HAVE HERE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY THE KIND OF LIFESTYLE WE HAVE HERE IN AMERICA. LIFESTYLE WE HAVE HERE IN AMERICA. >> YOU CAN BROADEN IT OUT IF AMERICA. >> YOU CAN BROADEN IT OUT IF YOU WANT TO. >> YOU CAN BROADEN IT OUT IF YOU WANT TO. >> I THINK WE SHOULD REFRAME YOU WANT TO. >> I THINK WE SHOULD REFRAME THE DEBATE. >> I THINK WE SHOULD REFRAME THE DEBATE. NOT EVERY MUSLIM IDENTIFIES THE DEBATE. NOT EVERY MUSLIM IDENTIFIES AS A MUSLIM, YOU KNOW? NOT EVERY MUSLIM IDENTIFIES AS A MUSLIM, YOU KNOW? IF I WERE TO SAY ME, YOU, AS A MUSLIM, YOU KNOW? IF I WERE TO SAY ME, YOU, JOHN, IN RICHMOND, ON AN IF I WERE TO SAY ME, YOU, JOHN, IN RICHMOND, ON AN AVERAGE SATURDAY NIGHT, THE JOHN, IN RICHMOND, ON AN AVERAGE SATURDAY NIGHT, THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD SAY TO AVERAGE SATURDAY NIGHT, THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD SAY TO ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCED FIRST THING YOU WOULD SAY TO ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCED YOURSELF WOULDN'T BE HI, I'M ME WHEN YOU INTRODUCED YOURSELF WOULDN'T BE HI, I'M JOHN, I'M A CHRISTIAN. YOURSELF WOULDN'T BE HI, I'M JOHN, I'M A CHRISTIAN. MAYBE IT WOULD, BUT I DON'T JOHN, I'M A CHRISTIAN. MAYBE IT WOULD, BUT I DON'T THINK SO. MAYBE IT WOULD, BUT I DON'T THINK SO. I DON'T GET THAT IMPRESSION THINK SO. I DON'T GET THAT IMPRESSION FROM YOU. I DON'T GET THAT IMPRESSION FROM YOU. SO LIKEWISE, MOST MUSLIMS FROM YOU. SO LIKEWISE, MOST MUSLIMS DON'T PRIMARILY IDENTIFY AS SO LIKEWISE, MOST MUSLIMS DON'T PRIMARILY IDENTIFY AS MUSLIMS WHEN INTERACTING DON'T PRIMARILY IDENTIFY AS MUSLIMS WHEN INTERACTING GENERALLY WITH PEOPLE. MUSLIMS WHEN INTERACTING GENERALLY WITH PEOPLE. AS THE ANSWER, SOME ARE GENERALLY WITH PEOPLE. AS THE ANSWER, SOME ARE HOMOSEXUAL, FEMINIST, SOME AS THE ANSWER, SOME ARE HOMOSEXUAL, FEMINIST, SOME ARE MUSLIM AND DEVOUT AND DO HOMOSEXUAL, FEMINIST, SOME ARE MUSLIM AND DEVOUT AND DO IDENTIFY PRIMARILY AS ARE MUSLIM AND DEVOUT AND DO IDENTIFY PRIMARILY AS MUSLIMS. IDENTIFY PRIMARILY AS MUSLIMS. OTHERS ARE MUSLIM MUSLIMS. OTHERS ARE MUSLIM PROFESSIONALS. OTHERS ARE MUSLIM PROFESSIONALS. NOT EVERYONE WEARS THE SAME PROFESSIONALS. NOT EVERYONE WEARS THE SAME HAT. NOT EVERYONE WEARS THE SAME HAT. NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN WE HAT. NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN WE ENGAGE, WE FORCE THE NOW, WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN WE ENGAGE, WE FORCE THE CONVERSATION DOWN ONE NARROW ENGAGE, WE FORCE THE CONVERSATION DOWN ONE NARROW TRAIN OF THOUGHT, AND THAT'S CONVERSATION DOWN ONE NARROW TRAIN OF THOUGHT, AND THAT'S BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE TRAIN OF THOUGHT, AND THAT'S BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE QUESTIONS QUESTION ASK. BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE QUESTIONS QUESTION ASK. IF WE WERE TO ENGAGE AND SAY QUESTIONS QUESTION ASK. IF WE WERE TO ENGAGE AND SAY HOW DOES IT FEEL BEING A IF WE WERE TO ENGAGE AND SAY HOW DOES IT FEEL BEING A MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN, THE HOW DOES IT FEEL BEING A MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN, THE PERSON WOULD IMMEDIATELY PUT MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN, THE PERSON WOULD IMMEDIATELY PUT THEIR MUSLIM HATS ON AND SAY PERSON WOULD IMMEDIATELY PUT THEIR MUSLIM HATS ON AND SAY AS A MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN -- THEIR MUSLIM HATS ON AND SAY AS A MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN -- AND WHAT THAT DOES, IT AS A MUSLIM IN PAKISTAN -- AND WHAT THAT DOES, IT EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM OF AND WHAT THAT DOES, IT EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM OF THE IDENTITY POLITICS I SPOKE EXACERBATES THE PROBLEM OF THE IDENTITY POLITICS I SPOKE ABOUT. THE IDENTITY POLITICS I SPOKE ABOUT. BASICALLY, THEN, WE ABOUT. BASICALLY, THEN, WE IMMEDIATELY SET UP A SCENARIO BASICALLY, THEN, WE IMMEDIATELY SET UP A SCENARIO WHERE WE'RE IDENTIFYING AS IMMEDIATELY SET UP A SCENARIO WHERE WE'RE IDENTIFYING AS CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM, WHEN WHERE WE'RE IDENTIFYING AS CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM, WHEN THAT CONVERSATION COULD HAVE CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM, WHEN THAT CONVERSATION COULD HAVE BEEN A TEACHER IS A TEACHER THAT CONVERSATION COULD HAVE BEEN A TEACHER IS A TEACHER OR STUDENT TO STUDENT, HUMAN BEEN A TEACHER IS A TEACHER OR STUDENT TO STUDENT, HUMAN TO HUMAN. OR STUDENT TO STUDENT, HUMAN TO HUMAN. I WE -- I THINK WE NEED TO TO HUMAN. I WE -- I THINK WE NEED TO RECALIBRATE THE WAY WE I WE -- I THINK WE NEED TO RECALIBRATE THE WAY WE APPROACH THIS DEBATE. RECALIBRATE THE WAY WE APPROACH THIS DEBATE. >> THAT IS A VERY INTERESTING APPROACH THIS DEBATE. >> THAT IS A VERY INTERESTING POINT. >> THAT IS A VERY INTERESTING POINT. IT BROUGHT BACK TO ME THE POINT. IT BROUGHT BACK TO ME THE TIME I WAS COVERING MOSCOW AT IT BROUGHT BACK TO ME THE TIME I WAS COVERING MOSCOW AT THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET TIME I WAS COVERING MOSCOW AT THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION AND MY EDITORS WERE THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION AND MY EDITORS WERE ALWAYS ASKING ME TO GO OUT UNION AND MY EDITORS WERE ALWAYS ASKING ME TO GO OUT AND ASK RUSSIANS DO YOU HAVE ALWAYS ASKING ME TO GO OUT AND ASK RUSSIANS DO YOU HAVE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE AND I WAS AND ASK RUSSIANS DO YOU HAVE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE AND I WAS REPORTING, THE RUSSIANS HAVE HOPE FOR THE FUTURE AND I WAS REPORTING, THE RUSSIANS HAVE NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE! REPORTING, THE RUSSIANS HAVE NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE! NOT THAT THEY WEREN'T -- THAT NO HOPE FOR THE FUTURE! NOT THAT THEY WEREN'T -- THAT THEY WERE HAVING THANK NOT THAT THEY WEREN'T -- THAT THEY WERE HAVING THANK CONVERSATION. THEY WERE HAVING THANK CONVERSATION. WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE CONVERSATION. WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION AND IT'S VERY WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION AND IT'S VERY FORWARD LOOKING. QUESTION AND IT'S VERY FORWARD LOOKING. AND MAYBE ONE WORE TWO FORWARD LOOKING. AND MAYBE ONE WORE TWO SENTENCES FROM EACH OF YOU. AND MAYBE ONE WORE TWO SENTENCES FROM EACH OF YOU. FIFTY YEARS FROM NOW, DO YOU SENTENCES FROM EACH OF YOU. FIFTY YEARS FROM NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL STILL FIFTY YEARS FROM NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL STILL HAVE REASON TO ASK THE BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL STILL HAVE REASON TO ASK THE QUESTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN HAVE REASON TO ASK THE QUESTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING TONIGHT, IN OTHER QUESTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN ASKING TONIGHT, IN OTHER WORDS, IS THERE ANY ASKING TONIGHT, IN OTHER WORDS, IS THERE ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN SIGHT? WORDS, IS THERE ANY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN SIGHT? IMAM? SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN SIGHT? IMAM? >> I BELIEVE THAT IN 50 IMAM? >> I BELIEVE THAT IN 50 YEARS, WE WILL HAVE A MUCH >> I BELIEVE THAT IN 50 YEARS, WE WILL HAVE A MUCH BETTER PLACE, IF WE HAVE YEARS, WE WILL HAVE A MUCH BETTER PLACE, IF WE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO ABOUT IT. BETTER PLACE, IF WE HAVE ANYTHING TO DO ABOUT IT. >> AAYAN? ANYTHING TO DO ABOUT IT. >> AAYAN? >> OF COURSE, I HOPE THAT IN >> AAYAN? >> OF COURSE, I HOPE THAT IN 50 YEARS, THAT THE VIOLENCE >> OF COURSE, I HOPE THAT IN 50 YEARS, THAT THE VIOLENCE WE SEE TODAY THAT IS 50 YEARS, THAT THE VIOLENCE WE SEE TODAY THAT IS INSROEBLGD -- INVOKED, THAT'S WE SEE TODAY THAT IS INSROEBLGD -- INVOKED, THAT'S PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF INSROEBLGD -- INVOKED, THAT'S PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, WILL NOT BE THERE, BUT PERPETRATED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, WILL NOT BE THERE, BUT WE'VE ENTERED NOW WITH THE ISLAM, WILL NOT BE THERE, BUT WE'VE ENTERED NOW WITH THE ARAB SPRING A PERIOD WHEN WE'VE ENTERED NOW WITH THE ARAB SPRING A PERIOD WHEN THERE IS A HUGE DEMOGRAPHY OF ARAB SPRING A PERIOD WHEN THERE IS A HUGE DEMOGRAPHY OF YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO LIVE IN AND THERE IS A HUGE DEMOGRAPHY OF YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO LIVE IN AND ARE STRUGGLING TO LIVE IN AND YOUNG PEOPLE, WHO LIVE IN AND ARE STRUGGLING TO LIVE IN AND SUR SIFE IN SOCIETIES THAT ARE STRUGGLING TO LIVE IN AND SUR SIFE IN SOCIETIES THAT ARE YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, SUR SIFE IN SOCIETIES THAT ARE YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, AND WHERE THERE ARE RELIGIOUS ARE YOU A AUTHORIZETARIAN, AND WHERE THERE ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS, AND THAT HAS JUST AND WHERE THERE ARE RELIGIOUS FANATICS, AND THAT HAS JUST STARTED TO PLAY ITSELF OUT. FANATICS, AND THAT HAS JUST STARTED TO PLAY ITSELF OUT. I LEFT SOMALI -- I LEFT STARTED TO PLAY ITSELF OUT. I LEFT SOMALI -- I LEFT SOMALIA IN 1990 NOVEMBER, AND I LEFT SOMALI -- I LEFT SOMALIA IN 1990 NOVEMBER, AND IN JANUARY 1991 THE CIVIL WAR SOMALIA IN 1990 NOVEMBER, AND IN JANUARY 1991 THE CIVIL WAR STARTED AND NOW IT IS OVER 20 IN JANUARY 1991 THE CIVIL WAR STARTED AND NOW IT IS OVER 20 YEARS, AND SOMALIA IS STILL STARTED AND NOW IT IS OVER 20 YEARS, AND SOMALIA IS STILL IN CIVIL WAR. YEARS, AND SOMALIA IS STILL IN CIVIL WAR. SO TWO DECADES, THREE IN CIVIL WAR. SO TWO DECADES, THREE DECADES, FOUR DECADES, ARE SO TWO DECADES, THREE DECADES, FOUR DECADES, ARE REALLY NOT THAT MUCH. DECADES, FOUR DECADES, ARE REALLY NOT THAT MUCH. I DON'T WANT TO BE REALLY NOT THAT MUCH. I DON'T WANT TO BE OVEROPTIMISTIC. I DON'T WANT TO BE OVEROPTIMISTIC. I REALLY HOPE THAT THINGS OVEROPTIMISTIC. I REALLY HOPE THAT THINGS CHANGE, BUT WE HAVE TO GUARD I REALLY HOPE THAT THINGS CHANGE, BUT WE HAVE TO GUARD OURSELVES TODAY FOR MORE CHANGE, BUT WE HAVE TO GUARD OURSELVES TODAY FOR MORE VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY INTRA OURSELVES TODAY FOR MORE VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY INTRA ISLAM, SUNNIS AND SHIITES. VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY INTRA ISLAM, SUNNIS AND SHIITES. IRAN IS DEVELOPING A BOMB, ISLAM, SUNNIS AND SHIITES. IRAN IS DEVELOPING A BOMB, SAUDI ARABIA IS COMPETING AND IRAN IS DEVELOPING A BOMB, SAUDI ARABIA IS COMPETING AND SUPPORTING PAKISTAN TO GET SAUDI ARABIA IS COMPETING AND SUPPORTING PAKISTAN TO GET THAT BOMB. SUPPORTING PAKISTAN TO GET THAT BOMB. EGYPT MAY WANT ONE, TURKEY THAT BOMB. EGYPT MAY WANT ONE, TURKEY MAY WANT ONE. EGYPT MAY WANT ONE, TURKEY MAY WANT ONE. THESE ARE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE MAY WANT ONE. THESE ARE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE SCENARIOS TO CONSIDER, AND THESE ARE TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE SCENARIOS TO CONSIDER, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS SCENARIOS TO CONSIDER, AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED QUICKLY. IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO BE RESOLVED QUICKLY. I HOPE IT IS, BUT A LITTLE GOING TO BE RESOLVED QUICKLY. I HOPE IT IS, BUT A LITTLE CAUTION. I HOPE IT IS, BUT A LITTLE CAUTION. >> LAST WORD? CAUTION. >> LAST WORD? >> IT'S VERY EASY FOR US TO >> LAST WORD? >> IT'S VERY EASY FOR US TO BE PESSIMISTIC. >> IT'S VERY EASY FOR US TO BE PESSIMISTIC. LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING. BE PESSIMISTIC. LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING. TAKE OURSELVES BACK 60 YEARS LET'S NOT FORGET ONE THING. TAKE OURSELVES BACK 60 YEARS AGO, IN THE PAST, AND WE WERE TAKE OURSELVES BACK 60 YEARS AGO, IN THE PAST, AND WE WERE LOCKED IN WORLD WAR II, IN AGO, IN THE PAST, AND WE WERE LOCKED IN WORLD WAR II, IN THE MOST TERRIBLE CONFLICT LOCKED IN WORLD WAR II, IN THE MOST TERRIBLE CONFLICT THAT THE HISTORY OF MAN KNOWS THE MOST TERRIBLE CONFLICT THAT THE HISTORY OF MAN KNOWS AND NOW EUROPE HAS AN THAT THE HISTORY OF MAN KNOWS AND NOW EUROPE HAS AN ECONOMIC UNION -- FINE, IT'S AND NOW EUROPE HAS AN ECONOMIC UNION -- FINE, IT'S NOT DOING TOO WELL AT THE ECONOMIC UNION -- FINE, IT'S NOT DOING TOO WELL AT THE MOMENT, BUT WE'RE NOT NOT DOING TOO WELL AT THE MOMENT, BUT WE'RE NOT FIGHTING EACH OTHER ANYMORE, MOMENT, BUT WE'RE NOT FIGHTING EACH OTHER ANYMORE, SO THE MIDDLE EAST, THOUGH IT FIGHTING EACH OTHER ANYMORE, SO THE MIDDLE EAST, THOUGH IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A MESS, IT'S SO THE MIDDLE EAST, THOUGH IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A MESS, IT'S NOT WORLD WAR II. LOOKS LIKE IT'S A MESS, IT'S NOT WORLD WAR II. I THINK 50 YEARS IN THE NOT WORLD WAR II. I THINK 50 YEARS IN THE FUTURE, WE MAY END UP WITH A I THINK 50 YEARS IN THE FUTURE, WE MAY END UP WITH A SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE HAVE FUTURE, WE MAY END UP WITH A SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE HAVE DECIDED TO RECONCILE A LOT OF SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE HAVE DECIDED TO RECONCILE A LOT OF THESE ISSUES. DECIDED TO RECONCILE A LOT OF THESE ISSUES. WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS THESE ISSUES. WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS EVERYONE HAVING WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS EVERYONE HAVING COFFEE-COLORED CHILDREN, MEN EVERYONE HAVING COFFEE-COLORED CHILDREN, MEN SPEAKING ITALIAN AND THE COFFEE-COLORED CHILDREN, MEN SPEAKING ITALIAN AND THE WOMEN SPEAKING FRENCH! SPEAKING ITALIAN AND THE WOMEN SPEAKING FRENCH! >> ALL RIGHT. WOMEN SPEAKING FRENCH! >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, 50 YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S >> ALL RIGHT. WELL, 50 YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S A SATURDAY NIGHT, AND WE WILL WELL, 50 YEARS FROM NOW, IT'S A SATURDAY NIGHT, AND WE WILL SEE YOU ALL THERE. A SATURDAY NIGHT, AND WE WILL SEE YOU ALL THERE. THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT, SEE YOU ALL THERE. THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT, EVERYONE! THANK YOU, AND GOOD NIGHT, EVERYONE! >> THANK YOU. EVERYONE! >> THANK YOU. I'M JON DONVAN. >> THANK YOU. I'M JON DONVAN. YOU WERE JUST WATCHING A I'M JON DONVAN. YOU WERE JUST WATCHING A CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE YOU WERE JUST WATCHING A CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE CONVERSATION THAT TOOK PLACE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE RICHMOND FORUM. UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE RICHMOND FORUM. THIS PAST SATURDAY, AT THE RICHMOND FORUM. THIS PAST SATURDAY, AT THE LANDMARK THEATER BEFORE A THIS PAST SATURDAY, AT THE LANDMARK THEATER BEFORE A SOLD OUT CROWD, WHERE THE LANDMARK THEATER BEFORE A SOLD OUT CROWD, WHERE THE TOPIC WAS ISLAM AND THE SOLD OUT CROWD, WHERE THE TOPIC WAS ISLAM AND THE QUESTION PHRASE WAS THIS. TOPIC WAS ISLAM AND THE QUESTION PHRASE WAS THIS. IF IZ -- IS ISLAM A RELIGION QUESTION PHRASE WAS THIS. IF IZ -- IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE AND THE IF IZ -- IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS CONVERSATION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS ABOUT TO UNFOLD NOW PURPOSE OF THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS ABOUT TO UNFOLD NOW IS TO BRING THIS CONVERSATION THAT IS ABOUT TO UNFOLD NOW IS TO BRING THIS CONVERSATION BACK TO RICHMOND, TO THIS IS TO BRING THIS CONVERSATION BACK TO RICHMOND, TO THIS COMMUNITY. BACK TO RICHMOND, TO THIS COMMUNITY. AND I WANT TO INTRODUCE THREE COMMUNITY. AND I WANT TO INTRODUCE THREE CITIZENS, DENIZENS OF AND I WANT TO INTRODUCE THREE CITIZENS, DENIZENS OF RICHMOND WHO WILLER TAKING CITIZENS, DENIZENS OF RICHMOND WHO WILLER TAKING PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, RICHMOND WHO WILLER TAKING PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, FROM NEAREST ME, IMAM AMMAR PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, FROM NEAREST ME, IMAM AMMAR AMONETTE, WHO LEADS THE FROM NEAREST ME, IMAM AMMAR AMONETTE, WHO LEADS THE ISLAMIC CENTER FOR VIRGINIA, AMONETTE, WHO LEADS THE ISLAMIC CENTER FOR VIRGINIA, THE REVEREND BILL SACHS OF ISLAMIC CENTER FOR VIRGINIA, THE REVEREND BILL SACHS OF THE SAINT STEPHEN'S EPIS THE REVEREND BILL SACHS OF THE SAINT STEPHEN'S EPIS COPAP CHURCH AND CENTER FOR THE SAINT STEPHEN'S EPIS COPAP CHURCH AND CENTER FOR INTER FAITH RECONCILIATION COPAP CHURCH AND CENTER FOR INTER FAITH RECONCILIATION AND RABBI BEN ROMER OF THE INTER FAITH RECONCILIATION AND RABBI BEN ROMER OF THE CONGREGATION OR OMI. AND RABBI BEN ROMER OF THE CONGREGATION OR OMI. I'M GOING TO SHARE QUICKLY, CONGREGATION OR OMI. I'M GOING TO SHARE QUICKLY, THE THREE OF YOU ARE LONG I'M GOING TO SHARE QUICKLY, THE THREE OF YOU ARE LONG TIME FRIENDS. THE THREE OF YOU ARE LONG TIME FRIENDS. OBVIOUSLY, CONNECTED BY THE TIME FRIENDS. OBVIOUSLY, CONNECTED BY THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION, JUST OBVIOUSLY, CONNECTED BY THE PREVIOUS CONVERSATION, JUST AS WE WERE BEGINNING, THAT PREVIOUS CONVERSATION, JUST AS WE WERE BEGINNING, THAT FOOD UNITES ALL OF YOU. AS WE WERE BEGINNING, THAT FOOD UNITES ALL OF YOU. A LOT OF OTHER THINGS UNITE FOOD UNITES ALL OF YOU. A LOT OF OTHER THINGS UNITE ALL OF YOU. A LOT OF OTHER THINGS UNITE ALL OF YOU. WHAT IS IT THAT BRINGS THE ALL OF YOU. WHAT IS IT THAT BRINGS THE THREE OF YOU TOGETHER? WHAT IS IT THAT BRINGS THE THREE OF YOU TOGETHER? AND WHEN DID YOU CONNECT WITH THREE OF YOU TOGETHER? AND WHEN DID YOU CONNECT WITH ONE ANOTHER? AND WHEN DID YOU CONNECT WITH ONE ANOTHER? >> REVEREND? ONE ANOTHER? >> REVEREND? >> FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS, >> REVEREND? >> FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS, MAYBE, WE HAVE PERIODICALLY >> FOR FIVE OR SIX YEARS, MAYBE, WE HAVE PERIODICALLY BEEN HAVING LUNCH, AND WE MAYBE, WE HAVE PERIODICALLY BEEN HAVING LUNCH, AND WE HAVE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN ALL BEEN HAVING LUNCH, AND WE HAVE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN ALL OF OUR FAITHS WHO HAVE COME HAVE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN ALL OF OUR FAITHS WHO HAVE COME IN THE GROUP. OF OUR FAITHS WHO HAVE COME IN THE GROUP. WE'VE DONE OTHER THINGS, IN THE GROUP. WE'VE DONE OTHER THINGS, WE'VE DONE JOINT HABITAT FOR WE'VE DONE OTHER THINGS, WE'VE DONE JOINT HABITAT FOR HUMANITY PROJECTS, GONE TO WE'VE DONE JOINT HABITAT FOR HUMANITY PROJECTS, GONE TO MONTICELLO, THOMAS HUMANITY PROJECTS, GONE TO MONTICELLO, THOMAS JEFFERSON'S HOME, TO TALK MONTICELLO, THOMAS JEFFERSON'S HOME, TO TALK ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM JEFFERSON'S HOME, TO TALK ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN AMERICA. ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN AMERICA. WE'VE FOUND, BY GOD'S GRACE, IN AMERICA. WE'VE FOUND, BY GOD'S GRACE, AN INCREDIBLE ABILITY TO TALK WE'VE FOUND, BY GOD'S GRACE, AN INCREDIBLE ABILITY TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT AN INCREDIBLE ABILITY TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT ANYTHING. TO ONE ANOTHER ABOUT ANYTHING. >> EVEN THE HARD ANYTHING. >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> PARDON ME? CONVERSATIONS? >> PARDON ME? >> EVEN THE HARD >> PARDON ME? >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS. >> EVEN THE HARD CONVERSATIONS. WE TALK ABOUT IT ALL. CONVERSATIONS. WE TALK ABOUT IT ALL. >> LET ME GET TO WHAT MAY BE WE TALK ABOUT IT ALL. >> LET ME GET TO WHAT MAY BE A HARD CONVERSATION, AND THAT >> LET ME GET TO WHAT MAY BE A HARD CONVERSATION, AND THAT IS THE NOTION THAT WHAT WE A HARD CONVERSATION, AND THAT IS THE NOTION THAT WHAT WE SAW WAS A CONVERSATION, WHERE IS THE NOTION THAT WHAT WE SAW WAS A CONVERSATION, WHERE WE WERE ACTUALLY WEIGHING THE SAW WAS A CONVERSATION, WHERE WE WERE ACTUALLY WEIGHING THE PEACE BELIEVENESS -- WE WERE ACTUALLY WEIGHING THE PEACE BELIEVENESS -- PEACEABLENESS OF ONE PEACE BELIEVENESS -- PEACEABLENESS OF ONE RELIGIOUS FAITH. PEACEABLENESS OF ONE RELIGIOUS FAITH. IT WAS THIS ONE QUESTION, IS RELIGIOUS FAITH. IT WAS THIS ONE QUESTION, IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE IT WAS THIS ONE QUESTION, IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. ISLAM A RELIGION OF VIOLENCE OR PEACE. TO A MUSLIM IN ITSELF, LET'S OR PEACE. TO A MUSLIM IN ITSELF, LET'S FACE IT, THAT WOULD REPRESENT TO A MUSLIM IN ITSELF, LET'S FACE IT, THAT WOULD REPRESENT SOMETHING OF AN AFFRONT TO FACE IT, THAT WOULD REPRESENT SOMETHING OF AN AFFRONT TO HAVE THAT ON A POSTER. SOMETHING OF AN AFFRONT TO HAVE THAT ON A POSTER. AT THE SAME TIME, LET'S HAVE THAT ON A POSTER. AT THE SAME TIME, LET'S RECOGNIZE THAT TO A LARGE AT THE SAME TIME, LET'S RECOGNIZE THAT TO A LARGE PART OF THE AMERICAN RECOGNIZE THAT TO A LARGE PART OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION, THE STORY OF PART OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION, THE STORY OF ISLAM AS VIOLENT IS THE ONE POPULATION, THE STORY OF ISLAM AS VIOLENT IS THE ONE THAT THEY KNOW, WHICH WAS THE ISLAM AS VIOLENT IS THE ONE THAT THEY KNOW, WHICH WAS THE PURPOSE OF OUR EVEN HAVING THAT THEY KNOW, WHICH WAS THE PURPOSE OF OUR EVEN HAVING THAT CONVERSATION IN THE PURPOSE OF OUR EVEN HAVING THAT CONVERSATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT CONVERSATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. BUT AN INTERESTING QUESTION FIRST PLACE. BUT AN INTERESTING QUESTION CAME FROM THE AUDIENCE, AMONG BUT AN INTERESTING QUESTION CAME FROM THE AUDIENCE, AMONG HUNDREDS OF QUESTION, AND CAME FROM THE AUDIENCE, AMONG HUNDREDS OF QUESTION, AND MOST WERE ACTUALLY HUNDREDS OF QUESTION, AND MOST WERE ACTUALLY SPECTACULAR. MOST WERE ACTUALLY SPECTACULAR. BUT A MAN NAMED BRAMAN SPECTACULAR. BUT A MAN NAMED BRAMAN HILLMAN WROTE ARE THERE ANY BUT A MAN NAMED BRAMAN HILLMAN WROTE ARE THERE ANY VIABLE METHODS TO REFRAME THE HILLMAN WROTE ARE THERE ANY VIABLE METHODS TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE AND IF SO, WHAT ARE VIABLE METHODS TO REFRAME THE DISCOURSE AND IF SO, WHAT ARE THEY, AND IF NOT, HOW CAN DISCOURSE AND IF SO, WHAT ARE THEY, AND IF NOT, HOW CAN THEY BE DEVELOPED. THEY, AND IF NOT, HOW CAN THEY BE DEVELOPED. SO IMAM, LET ME ASK YOU THEY BE DEVELOPED. SO IMAM, LET ME ASK YOU THIS:FULS THE QUESTION THAT SO IMAM, LET ME ASK YOU THIS:FULS THE QUESTION THAT WAS PUT BEFORE THE AUDIENCE THIS:FULS THE QUESTION THAT WAS PUT BEFORE THE AUDIENCE AT THE FORUM THE RIGHT WAS PUT BEFORE THE AUDIENCE AT THE FORUM THE RIGHT QUESTION TO BE ASKING? AT THE FORUM THE RIGHT QUESTION TO BE ASKING? >> WELL, NO. QUESTION TO BE ASKING? >> WELL, NO. YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, THE >> WELL, NO. YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, THE RICHMOND FORUM IS PART OF YOU HAVE TO REALIZE, THE RICHMOND FORUM IS PART OF RICHMOND, AND IT AFFECTS RICHMOND FORUM IS PART OF RICHMOND, AND IT AFFECTS THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN RICHMOND, AND IT AFFECTS THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN RICHMOND. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN RICHMOND. THERE ARE UPWARDS OF 10,000 RICHMOND. THERE ARE UPWARDS OF 10,000 MUSLIMS WHO ARE NEIGHBORS THERE ARE UPWARDS OF 10,000 MUSLIMS WHO ARE NEIGHBORS HERE IN THIS CITY AND IN THE MUSLIMS WHO ARE NEIGHBORS HERE IN THIS CITY AND IN THE REGION. HERE IN THIS CITY AND IN THE REGION. AND PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHO REGION. AND PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHO THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE. AND PEOPLE MAY NOT KNOW WHO THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE. AND WHEN YOU FRAME SOMETHING THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE. AND WHEN YOU FRAME SOMETHING IN A GENERAL WAY, IT SOUNDS AND WHEN YOU FRAME SOMETHING IN A GENERAL WAY, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN A GENERAL WAY, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS SCARY FORCE THAT IS FROM LIKE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS SCARY FORCE THAT IS FROM FAR AWAY. THIS SCARY FORCE THAT IS FROM FAR AWAY. NOT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT FAR AWAY. NOT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBORS WHO LIVE AND NOT THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT YOUR NEIGHBORS WHO LIVE AND WORK AND GO TO SCHOOL WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS WHO LIVE AND WORK AND GO TO SCHOOL WITH YOU. WORK AND GO TO SCHOOL WITH YOU. SO HOW WE FRAME THINGS LIKE YOU. SO HOW WE FRAME THINGS LIKE THAT AFFECT OUR COMMUNITY AND SO HOW WE FRAME THINGS LIKE THAT AFFECT OUR COMMUNITY AND EVERY MEMBER IN OUR THAT AFFECT OUR COMMUNITY AND EVERY MEMBER IN OUR COMMUNITY. EVERY MEMBER IN OUR COMMUNITY. WE COULD HAVE TURNED THAT AND COMMUNITY. WE COULD HAVE TURNED THAT AND MADE IT ABOUT ANOTHER WE COULD HAVE TURNED THAT AND MADE IT ABOUT ANOTHER RELIGION, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE MADE IT ABOUT ANOTHER RELIGION, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IF IT WERE ABOUT JUDAISM RELIGION, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT IF IT WERE ABOUT JUDAISM THAT PERHAPS THE JEWISH THAT IF IT WERE ABOUT JUDAISM THAT PERHAPS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WOULD HAVE BEEN THAT PERHAPS THE JEWISH COMMUNITY WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSULTED ABOUT THAT, YOU COMMUNITY WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSULTED ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, AND IF WE BROUGHT CONSULTED ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, AND IF WE BROUGHT EXTREMIST VIEWPOINTS ABOUT KNOW, AND IF WE BROUGHT EXTREMIST VIEWPOINTS ABOUT ANY CHRISTIAN OR ANY TPOERLS EXTREMIST VIEWPOINTS ABOUT ANY CHRISTIAN OR ANY TPOERLS OF ANY RELIGION, THAT WE ANY CHRISTIAN OR ANY TPOERLS OF ANY RELIGION, THAT WE WOULD CONSULT WITH THE LOCAL OF ANY RELIGION, THAT WE WOULD CONSULT WITH THE LOCAL COMMUNITY THAT'S GOING TO BE WOULD CONSULT WITH THE LOCAL COMMUNITY THAT'S GOING TO BE AFFECTED DIRECTLY BY THAT. COMMUNITY THAT'S GOING TO BE AFFECTED DIRECTLY BY THAT. >> RABBI, YOU WERE AT THE AFFECTED DIRECTLY BY THAT. >> RABBI, YOU WERE AT THE CONVERSATION. >> RABBI, YOU WERE AT THE CONVERSATION. YOU WERE IN THE AUDIENCE. CONVERSATION. YOU WERE IN THE AUDIENCE. WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM YOU WERE IN THE AUDIENCE. WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM IT THAT ACTUALLY WOULD WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM IT THAT ACTUALLY WOULD ADDRESS THE IMAM'S POINT TO IT THAT ACTUALLY WOULD ADDRESS THE IMAM'S POINT TO THE BROADER COMMUNITY HAVING ADDRESS THE IMAM'S POINT TO THE BROADER COMMUNITY HAVING A DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE BROADER COMMUNITY HAVING A DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE? A DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING OF WHO THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE? >> WELL, OF COURSE, EVERYBODY WHO THEIR NEIGHBORS ARE? >> WELL, OF COURSE, EVERYBODY WAS OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY >> WELL, OF COURSE, EVERYBODY WAS OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY WHO WAS THERE, BUT I THINK WAS OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY WHO WAS THERE, BUT I THINK THE INTERCHANGE WAS HELPFUL WHO WAS THERE, BUT I THINK THE INTERCHANGE WAS HELPFUL AMONG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT THE INTERCHANGE WAS HELPFUL AMONG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY BACKGROUND, AMONG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE ANY BACKGROUND, UNDERSTAND THE DIVERSITY AND HAVE ANY BACKGROUND, UNDERSTAND THE DIVERSITY AND DIFFICULTY OF THE DISCUSSION, UNDERSTAND THE DIVERSITY AND DIFFICULTY OF THE DISCUSSION, AND SO IT WAS HELPFUL BY DIFFICULTY OF THE DISCUSSION, AND SO IT WAS HELPFUL BY GETTING PEOPLE IN, BUT IT'S AND SO IT WAS HELPFUL BY GETTING PEOPLE IN, BUT IT'S AT TIMES ALMOST INFLAMMATORY GETTING PEOPLE IN, BUT IT'S AT TIMES ALMOST INFLAMMATORY BY THE FRAMEWORK THAT YOU AT TIMES ALMOST INFLAMMATORY BY THE FRAMEWORK THAT YOU USE. BY THE FRAMEWORK THAT YOU USE. AND FOR ME, THE CHALLENGE IS USE. AND FOR ME, THE CHALLENGE IS WHO DO YOU FRAME THE AND FOR ME, THE CHALLENGE IS WHO DO YOU FRAME THE DISCUSSION. WHO DO YOU FRAME THE DISCUSSION. AND THE MINUTE YOU SAY DISCUSSION. AND THE MINUTE YOU SAY VIOLENCE, THERE WE GO. AND THE MINUTE YOU SAY VIOLENCE, THERE WE GO. AND I KNOW THAT'S HOW WE TALK VIOLENCE, THERE WE GO. AND I KNOW THAT'S HOW WE TALK ABOUT THINGS. AND I KNOW THAT'S HOW WE TALK ABOUT THINGS. IT'S ALWAYS THE ALARMING ABOUT THINGS. IT'S ALWAYS THE ALARMING HEADLINES. IT'S ALWAYS THE ALARMING HEADLINES. BUT FOR US HERE, THE PART OF HEADLINES. BUT FOR US HERE, THE PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON IS WE MEET BUT FOR US HERE, THE PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON IS WE MEET ONCE A YEAR AND WE SHARE WHAT'S GOING ON IS WE MEET ONCE A YEAR AND WE SHARE FOOD, WE SHARE THOUGHTS, AND ONCE A YEAR AND WE SHARE FOOD, WE SHARE THOUGHTS, AND WE MEET EACH OTHER, AND IN A FOOD, WE SHARE THOUGHTS, AND WE MEET EACH OTHER, AND IN A TRILOGUE, JEWISH, CHRISTIANS, WE MEET EACH OTHER, AND IN A TRILOGUE, JEWISH, CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS TALKING TOGETHER, WE TRILOGUE, JEWISH, CHRISTIANS, MUSLIMS TALKING TOGETHER, WE MEET WITH EACH OTHER AND TALK MUSLIMS TALKING TOGETHER, WE MEET WITH EACH OTHER AND TALK WITH EACH OTHER, RATHER THAN MEET WITH EACH OTHER AND TALK WITH EACH OTHER, RATHER THAN AT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE WITH EACH OTHER, RATHER THAN AT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IN A DIFFICULT AT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE CHALLENGES IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION LIKE THIS, WHERE CHALLENGES IN A DIFFICULT SITUATION LIKE THIS, WHERE YOU BRING UP TOPICS, AND THEN SITUATION LIKE THIS, WHERE YOU BRING UP TOPICS, AND THEN AFTER TALKING TOGETHER, WALK YOU BRING UP TOPICS, AND THEN AFTER TALKING TOGETHER, WALK AWAY. AFTER TALKING TOGETHER, WALK AWAY. >> I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS AWAY. >> I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT WE ARE NOT IN ANY >> I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT WE ARE NOT IN ANY SUFFICIENT WAY TALKING TO AND THAT WE ARE NOT IN ANY SUFFICIENT WAY TALKING TO AND WITH ONE ANOTHER. SUFFICIENT WAY TALKING TO AND WITH ONE ANOTHER. I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THIS WITH ONE ANOTHER. I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THIS DURING THE PROGRAM, SOMEONE I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO THIS DURING THE PROGRAM, SOMEONE D. WHEN YOU SAID THAT ONE OF DURING THE PROGRAM, SOMEONE D. WHEN YOU SAID THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DON'T TALK D. WHEN YOU SAID THAT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IS RELIGION. THE THINGS WE DON'T TALK ABOUT IS RELIGION. THE PROBLEM IS WE DESPERATELY ABOUT IS RELIGION. THE PROBLEM IS WE DESPERATELY NEED TO TALK ABOUT OUR FAITH, THE PROBLEM IS WE DESPERATELY NEED TO TALK ABOUT OUR FAITH, AND WHEN WE DO, I THINK MORE NEED TO TALK ABOUT OUR FAITH, AND WHEN WE DO, I THINK MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, WE DISCOVER AND WHEN WE DO, I THINK MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, WE DISCOVER COMMONALITY, WE DISCOVER THAT OFTEN THAN NOT, WE DISCOVER COMMONALITY, WE DISCOVER THAT WE ARE NEIGHBORS, WE DISCOVER COMMONALITY, WE DISCOVER THAT WE ARE NEIGHBORS, WE DISCOVER THAT WE CARE ABOUT THE SAME WE ARE NEIGHBORS, WE DISCOVER THAT WE CARE ABOUT THE SAME CITY AND THE SAME REGION, WE THAT WE CARE ABOUT THE SAME CITY AND THE SAME REGION, WE CARE ABOUT THE SCHOOLS AND CITY AND THE SAME REGION, WE CARE ABOUT THE SCHOOLS AND THE HEALTH CARE AND THE CARE ABOUT THE SCHOOLS AND THE HEALTH CARE AND THE TRANSPORTATION. THE HEALTH CARE AND THE TRANSPORTATION. WE LIVE HERE TOGETHER. TRANSPORTATION. WE LIVE HERE TOGETHER. BUT TAKES COMING TO THE WE LIVE HERE TOGETHER. BUT TAKES COMING TO THE TABLE, IT TAKES CREATING BUT TAKES COMING TO THE TABLE, IT TAKES CREATING OCCASIONS TO GET TO KNOW ONE TABLE, IT TAKES CREATING OCCASIONS TO GET TO KNOW ONE ANOTHER. OCCASIONS TO GET TO KNOW ONE ANOTHER. AND THEN THE REWARD IS ANOTHER. AND THEN THE REWARD IS EXTRAORDINARY. AND THEN THE REWARD IS EXTRAORDINARY. >> DO YOU RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, EXTRAORDINARY. >> DO YOU RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, THAT FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT >> DO YOU RECOGNIZE, THOUGH, THAT FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT MAY SEEM LIKE A FRIGHTENING THAT FOR SOME PEOPLE, THAT MAY SEEM LIKE A FRIGHTENING THING TO DO, A SCARY THING TO MAY SEEM LIKE A FRIGHTENING THING TO DO, A SCARY THING TO DO AND AT MINIMUM AN AWKWARD THING TO DO, A SCARY THING TO DO AND AT MINIMUM AN AWKWARD THING TO DO TO APPROACH DO AND AT MINIMUM AN AWKWARD THING TO DO TO APPROACH SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT FAITH THING TO DO TO APPROACH SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT FAITH WITH A REAL INTENTION OF SOMEONE OF A DIFFERENT FAITH WITH A REAL INTENTION OF WANTING TO HAVE THAT WITH A REAL INTENTION OF WANTING TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION BUT NOT KNOWING WANTING TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION BUT NOT KNOWING HOW TO DO IT, HOW TO ENTER CONVERSATION BUT NOT KNOWING HOW TO DO IT, HOW TO ENTER INTO IT? HOW TO DO IT, HOW TO ENTER INTO IT? >> I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND AND INTO IT? >> I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THAT. >> I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT THAT. BUT I COME BACK TO SOME VERY RESPECT THAT. BUT I COME BACK TO SOME VERY PRACTICAL THINGS. BUT I COME BACK TO SOME VERY PRACTICAL THINGS. I THINK THERE ARE WAYS TO PRACTICAL THINGS. I THINK THERE ARE WAYS TO CONVENE THAT REDUCE THE I THINK THERE ARE WAYS TO CONVENE THAT REDUCE THE TENSION. CONVENE THAT REDUCE THE TENSION. THE SIMPLEST WAY IS AROUND A TENSION. THE SIMPLEST WAY IS AROUND A MIDDLE EAST AND WE'VE DONE THE SIMPLEST WAY IS AROUND A MIDDLE EAST AND WE'VE DONE SOME OF THESE IN LOCAL MIDDLE EAST AND WE'VE DONE SOME OF THESE IN LOCAL CONGREGATIONS, AND WE'VE PUT SOME OF THESE IN LOCAL CONGREGATIONS, AND WE'VE PUT PEOPLE AT TABLES WITH SIX OR CONGREGATIONS, AND WE'VE PUT PEOPLE AT TABLES WITH SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE AT A PEOPLE AT TABLES WITH SIX OR SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE AT A TABLE, MIXING UP THE SEVEN OR EIGHT PEOPLE AT A TABLE, MIXING UP THE DIFFERENT FAITHS, AND PEOPLE TABLE, MIXING UP THE DIFFERENT FAITHS, AND PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES, DIFFERENT FAITHS, AND PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES, THEY TALK ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE TALK ABOUT THEIR FAMILIES, THEY TALK ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE TO COOK OR LIKE TO GO OUT TO THEY TALK ABOUT HOW THEY LIKE TO COOK OR LIKE TO GO OUT TO EAT. TO COOK OR LIKE TO GO OUT TO EAT. IT COMES BACK TO BASICS. EAT. IT COMES BACK TO BASICS. >> IT KEEPS COMING BACK TO IT COMES BACK TO BASICS. >> IT KEEPS COMING BACK TO FOOD, I KNOW. >> IT KEEPS COMING BACK TO FOOD, I KNOW. >> IT DOES COME BACK TO FOOD. FOOD, I KNOW. >> IT DOES COME BACK TO FOOD. >> IT'S THE UNIVERSAL -- IT'S >> IT DOES COME BACK TO FOOD. >> IT'S THE UNIVERSAL -- IT'S OXYGEN. >> IT'S THE UNIVERSAL -- IT'S OXYGEN. >> ABSOLUTELY. OXYGEN. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> SO REALLY, THE CHALLENGE >> ABSOLUTELY. >> SO REALLY, THE CHALLENGE IS WE HAVE TO HAVE RELIGION, >> SO REALLY, THE CHALLENGE IS WE HAVE TO HAVE RELIGION, AND THE BROAD BASE OF WHAT IS WE HAVE TO HAVE RELIGION, AND THE BROAD BASE OF WHAT RELIGION IS. AND THE BROAD BASE OF WHAT RELIGION IS. ISLAM, SKWRAOUZISM, RELIGION IS. ISLAM, SKWRAOUZISM, CHRISTIANITY, PWAOUZISM, ISLAM, SKWRAOUZISM, CHRISTIANITY, PWAOUZISM, HINDUISM, ALL THE -- CHRISTIANITY, PWAOUZISM, HINDUISM, ALL THE -- HINDUISM, ALL THE GROUPS, AND HINDUISM, ALL THE -- HINDUISM, ALL THE GROUPS, AND THE COMMUNITY'S INPUT, THE HINDUISM, ALL THE GROUPS, AND THE COMMUNITY'S INPUT, THE TOTAL FAITH COMMUNITY'S THE COMMUNITY'S INPUT, THE TOTAL FAITH COMMUNITY'S INPUT. TOTAL FAITH COMMUNITY'S INPUT. YOU HAVE A LOT OF SITUATIONS, INPUT. YOU HAVE A LOT OF SITUATIONS, AND VOICES THAT TEND TO BE YOU HAVE A LOT OF SITUATIONS, AND VOICES THAT TEND TO BE THE MOST STRIDENT VOICES. AND VOICES THAT TEND TO BE THE MOST STRIDENT VOICES. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST THE MOST STRIDENT VOICES. WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT, WHO THREATENS THE WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT, WHO THREATENS THE MOST, AND THE ONE WITH THE NIGHT, WHO THREATENS THE MOST, AND THE ONE WITH THE BAGGEST STAKES HAVE THE MOST, AND THE ONE WITH THE BAGGEST STAKES HAVE THE LOUDEST VOICES AND WE LOSE BAGGEST STAKES HAVE THE LOUDEST VOICES AND WE LOSE THE DYNAMIC OF THE TOTAL LOUDEST VOICES AND WE LOSE THE DYNAMIC OF THE TOTAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE THE DYNAMIC OF THE TOTAL DISCUSSION ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE REALLY ARE, SO YOU ONLY GET DISCUSSION ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE REALLY ARE, SO YOU ONLY GET AN IMAGE ABOUT WHAT YOU HEAR REALLY ARE, SO YOU ONLY GET AN IMAGE ABOUT WHAT YOU HEAR IN THE SOUND BITES THAT SHOW AN IMAGE ABOUT WHAT YOU HEAR IN THE SOUND BITES THAT SHOW UP, RATHER THAN WHAT PEOPLE IN THE SOUND BITES THAT SHOW UP, RATHER THAN WHAT PEOPLE REALLY ARE. UP, RATHER THAN WHAT PEOPLE REALLY ARE. AND THE IMPORTANCE OF REALLY ARE. AND THE IMPORTANCE OF RELIGION AND FAITH AND AND THE IMPORTANCE OF RELIGION AND FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY, IN THE VERY RELIGION AND FAITH AND SPIRITUALITY, IN THE VERY REAL WORLD DISCUSSIONS OF SPIRITUALITY, IN THE VERY REAL WORLD DISCUSSIONS OF EVERYTHING THAT WE DEAL WITH. REAL WORLD DISCUSSIONS OF EVERYTHING THAT WE DEAL WITH. >> TELL ME ABOUT THE MUSLIM EVERYTHING THAT WE DEAL WITH. >> TELL ME ABOUT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN RICHMOND. >> TELL ME ABOUT THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN RICHMOND. HOW BIG IS IT, HOW OLD IS IT? COMMUNITY IN RICHMOND. HOW BIG IS IT, HOW OLD IS IT? AND WHO IS THERE? HOW BIG IS IT, HOW OLD IS IT? AND WHO IS THERE? THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, IT'S AND WHO IS THERE? THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, IT'S BEEN HERE FOR A LONG, LONG THE LOCAL COMMUNITY, IT'S BEEN HERE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, BUT IT'S BEEN AN BEEN HERE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME, BUT IT'S BEEN AN INVISIBLE COMMUNITY. TIME, BUT IT'S BEEN AN INVISIBLE COMMUNITY. IT'S BEEN REALLY GROWING THE INVISIBLE COMMUNITY. IT'S BEEN REALLY GROWING THE LAST 40 PLUS YEARS, AND IT'S IT'S BEEN REALLY GROWING THE LAST 40 PLUS YEARS, AND IT'S NOW MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE LAST 40 PLUS YEARS, AND IT'S NOW MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE HERE LOCALLY, AND IN NOW MORE THAN 10,000 PEOPLE HERE LOCALLY, AND IN VIRGINIA, IT IS A VERY LARGE HERE LOCALLY, AND IN VIRGINIA, IT IS A VERY LARGE CONCENTRATION OF MUSLIMS, OF VIRGINIA, IT IS A VERY LARGE CONCENTRATION OF MUSLIMS, OF COURSE. CONCENTRATION OF MUSLIMS, OF COURSE. THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS COURSE. THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS EXTREMELY DIVERSE. THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS EXTREMELY DIVERSE. THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXTREMELY DIVERSE. THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE REFUGEES JUST ARRIVING ON OUR THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE REFUGEES JUST ARRIVING ON OUR SHORES FROM EVERY POSSIBLE REFUGEES JUST ARRIVING ON OUR SHORES FROM EVERY POSSIBLE AREA IN THE WORLD. SHORES FROM EVERY POSSIBLE AREA IN THE WORLD. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE AREA IN THE WORLD. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR GENERATIONS. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN HERE FOR GENERATIONS. THE SORT OF MAINSTAYS OF OUR BEEN HERE FOR GENERATIONS. THE SORT OF MAINSTAYS OF OUR COMMUNITY ARE PROFESSIONAL THE SORT OF MAINSTAYS OF OUR COMMUNITY ARE PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO WORK IN COMMUNITY ARE PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE MEDICAL FIELD, EDUCATION, PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE MEDICAL FIELD, EDUCATION, INDUSTRY, GOVERNMENT, AND THE MEDICAL FIELD, EDUCATION, INDUSTRY, GOVERNMENT, AND PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE INDUSTRY, GOVERNMENT, AND PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE MILITARY. PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE MILITARY. WE HAVE, OF COURSE, IN EVERY MILITARY. WE HAVE, OF COURSE, IN EVERY MUSLIM COMMUNITY, PLENTY OF WE HAVE, OF COURSE, IN EVERY MUSLIM COMMUNITY, PLENTY OF SERVICE MEMBERS AS WELL. MUSLIM COMMUNITY, PLENTY OF SERVICE MEMBERS AS WELL. SO WE CAN'T REALLY STEREOTYPE SERVICE MEMBERS AS WELL. SO WE CAN'T REALLY STEREOTYPE A COMMUNITY AS ONE THING OR SO WE CAN'T REALLY STEREOTYPE A COMMUNITY AS ONE THING OR ANOTHER. A COMMUNITY AS ONE THING OR ANOTHER. IT REPRESENTS PEOPLE OF EVERY ANOTHER. IT REPRESENTS PEOPLE OF EVERY ETHNIC BACKGROUND, EVERY IT REPRESENTS PEOPLE OF EVERY ETHNIC BACKGROUND, EVERY INCOME LEVEL, EVERY ETHNIC BACKGROUND, EVERY INCOME LEVEL, EVERY EDUCATIONAL LEVEL. INCOME LEVEL, EVERY EDUCATIONAL LEVEL. >> HIGHLY EDUCATED. EDUCATIONAL LEVEL. >> HIGHLY EDUCATED. I HAD A SENSE WHEN YOU WERE >> HIGHLY EDUCATED. I HAD A SENSE WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE I HAD A SENSE WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, MEDICINE, TALKING ABOUT THE PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, MEDICINE, THAT THERE WAS MORE OF A BENT PROFESSIONAL LEVEL, MEDICINE, THAT THERE WAS MORE OF A BENT TOWARDS BEING HIGHLY THAT THERE WAS MORE OF A BENT TOWARDS BEING HIGHLY EDUCATED. TOWARDS BEING HIGHLY EDUCATED. >> THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN EDUCATED. >> THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES ON A WHOLE >> THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES ON A WHOLE IS STATISTICALLY MORE THE UNITED STATES ON A WHOLE IS STATISTICALLY MORE EDUCATED AND AFFLUENT THAN IS STATISTICALLY MORE EDUCATED AND AFFLUENT THAN PERHAPS THE CHRISTIAN EDUCATED AND AFFLUENT THAN PERHAPS THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE PERHAPS THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE 1 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION, COMMUNITY, EVEN THOUGH WE'RE 1 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION, BUT IT IS ACTUALLY VERY 1 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION, BUT IT IS ACTUALLY VERY DIVERSE. BUT IT IS ACTUALLY VERY DIVERSE. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO JUST MIG DIVERSE. WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO JUST MIG RATED HERE WHO BARELY SPEAK WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO JUST MIG RATED HERE WHO BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH AND PEOPLE FROM A RATED HERE WHO BARELY SPEAK ENGLISH AND PEOPLE FROM A POOR BACKGROUND. ENGLISH AND PEOPLE FROM A POOR BACKGROUND. >> AT THE RICHMOND FORUM, WE POOR BACKGROUND. >> AT THE RICHMOND FORUM, WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE >> AT THE RICHMOND FORUM, WE DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WAS DIDN'T DISCUSS THIS BECAUSE EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WAS MUSLIM, BUT NOW WE HAVE A EVERYONE ON THE STAGE WAS MUSLIM, BUT NOW WE HAVE A MUSLIM, A JEW AND CHRISTIAN. MUSLIM, BUT NOW WE HAVE A MUSLIM, A JEW AND CHRISTIAN. >> A WALKING JOKE. MUSLIM, A JEW AND CHRISTIAN. >> A WALKING JOKE. >> AND BUT TELL ME ABOUT -- >> A WALKING JOKE. >> AND BUT TELL ME ABOUT -- YOU HAVE USED THE WORD >> AND BUT TELL ME ABOUT -- YOU HAVE USED THE WORD COMMONALITIES AMONG THE YOU HAVE USED THE WORD COMMONALITIES AMONG THE FAITHS. COMMONALITIES AMONG THE FAITHS. ALL THREE FAITHS RECOGNIZE FAITHS. ALL THREE FAITHS RECOGNIZE ABRAHAM, ALL THREE FAITHS ALL THREE FAITHS RECOGNIZE ABRAHAM, ALL THREE FAITHS WORSHIP ONE GOD. ABRAHAM, ALL THREE FAITHS WORSHIP ONE GOD. BUT THOSE ARE THE BASICS. WORSHIP ONE GOD. BUT THOSE ARE THE BASICS. THOSE ARE IMPORTANT BASICS. BUT THOSE ARE THE BASICS. THOSE ARE IMPORTANT BASICS. BUT BEYOND THAT, WHEN YOU THOSE ARE IMPORTANT BASICS. BUT BEYOND THAT, WHEN YOU CHAT WITH ONE ANOTHER, DO YOU BUT BEYOND THAT, WHEN YOU CHAT WITH ONE ANOTHER, DO YOU DISCOVER MORE DIFFERENCES OR CHAT WITH ONE ANOTHER, DO YOU DISCOVER MORE DIFFERENCES OR MORE SIMILARITIES OR A RICH DISCOVER MORE DIFFERENCES OR MORE SIMILARITIES OR A RICH TREASURE OF BOTH OF THOSE MORE SIMILARITIES OR A RICH TREASURE OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS? TREASURE OF BOTH OF THOSE THINGS? >> I THINK WE SEE MORE THINGS? >> I THINK WE SEE MORE SIMILARITIES. >> I THINK WE SEE MORE SIMILARITIES. JUST BEFORE THE CAMERA BEGAN SIMILARITIES. JUST BEFORE THE CAMERA BEGAN ROLLING, WE WERE TALKING JUST BEFORE THE CAMERA BEGAN ROLLING, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT COMMONALITIES IN ROLLING, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT COMMONALITIES IN PRACTICE BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND ABOUT COMMONALITIES IN PRACTICE BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND JEWS AND THE JEWISH ORIGIN OF PRACTICE BETWEEN MUSLIMS AND JEWS AND THE JEWISH ORIGIN OF CERTAIN CHRISTIAN IDEAS -- JEWS AND THE JEWISH ORIGIN OF CERTAIN CHRISTIAN IDEAS -- IDEAS. CERTAIN CHRISTIAN IDEAS -- IDEAS. WE HAVE COMMON ROOTS. IDEAS. WE HAVE COMMON ROOTS. AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT WE HAVE COMMON ROOTS. AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT WHEN WE CONVENE PEOPLE TO AND I WOULD ALSO ADD THAT WHEN WE CONVENE PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT OUR COMMONALITIES WHEN WE CONVENE PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT OUR COMMONALITIES WE FIND SIMILARITIES IN WAYS TALK ABOUT OUR COMMONALITIES WE FIND SIMILARITIES IN WAYS WE PRAY, SIMILARITIES IN WAYS WE FIND SIMILARITIES IN WAYS WE PRAY, SIMILARITIES IN WAYS WE TRY TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN WE PRAY, SIMILARITIES IN WAYS WE TRY TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN THE VALUES OF THE FAITH. WE TRY TO TEACH OUR CHILDREN THE VALUES OF THE FAITH. SO WE HAVE DEEP, DEEP COMMON THE VALUES OF THE FAITH. SO WE HAVE DEEP, DEEP COMMON ROOTS. SO WE HAVE DEEP, DEEP COMMON ROOTS. >> THE CHALLENGE IS ALWAYS ROOTS. >> THE CHALLENGE IS ALWAYS HAVING SIRTE IN -- -- >> THE CHALLENGE IS ALWAYS HAVING SIRTE IN -- -- CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OWN FAITH HAVING SIRTE IN -- -- CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OWN FAITH THAT -- CONFIDENCE IN YOUR OWN FAITH THAT -- >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT -- >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CONFIDENCE IN OUR OWN FAITH. >> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CONFIDENCE IN OUR OWN FAITH. >> MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE CONFIDENCE IN OUR OWN FAITH. >> MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE TALK TO EACH OTHER, WE COME >> MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE TALK TO EACH OTHER, WE COME FROM THE LEVEL OF I DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER, WE COME FROM THE LEVEL OF I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEY OWN FROM THE LEVEL OF I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEY OWN FAITH. KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THEY OWN FAITH. MOST JEWS DON'T KNOW THAT FAITH. MOST JEWS DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT ISLAM, THEY DON'T MOST JEWS DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT ISLAM, THEY DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT MUCH ABOUT ISLAM, THEY DON'T KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT CHRISTIANITY, MOST CHRISTIANS KNOW THAT MUCH ABOUT CHRISTIANITY, MOST CHRISTIANS DON'T KNOW ABOUT JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, MOST CHRISTIANS DON'T KNOW ABOUT JUDAISM AND CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW MUCH DON'T KNOW ABOUT JUDAISM AND CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ISLAM AND MOST MUSLIMS CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT ISLAM AND MOST MUSLIMS AREN'T BETTER EDUCATED IN ABOUT ISLAM AND MOST MUSLIMS AREN'T BETTER EDUCATED IN MOST CASES ABOUT THE OTHER AREN'T BETTER EDUCATED IN MOST CASES ABOUT THE OTHER RELIGIONS AS WELL. MOST CASES ABOUT THE OTHER RELIGIONS AS WELL. WE ALL KNOW BITS AND PIECES, RELIGIONS AS WELL. WE ALL KNOW BITS AND PIECES, STRAW MEN AND WOMEN THAT WE WE ALL KNOW BITS AND PIECES, STRAW MEN AND WOMEN THAT WE SET OUT. STRAW MEN AND WOMEN THAT WE SET OUT. THE MORE WE KNOW ABOUT EACH SET OUT. THE MORE WE KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER, THE MORE WE FIND THAT THE MORE WE KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER, THE MORE WE FIND THAT WE SHARE CERTAIN COMMON VALUE OTHER, THE MORE WE FIND THAT WE SHARE CERTAIN COMMON VALUE S, CARE FOR THE PERSON, WE SHARE CERTAIN COMMON VALUE S, CARE FOR THE PERSON, CARE FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND S, CARE FOR THE PERSON, CARE FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND REALIZE THAT AS WE LEARN MORE CARE FOR THE COMMUNITY, AND REALIZE THAT AS WE LEARN MORE ABOUT EACH OTHER, WE ENHANCE REALIZE THAT AS WE LEARN MORE ABOUT EACH OTHER, WE ENHANCE OUR OWN SENSE OF CONFIDENCE ABOUT EACH OTHER, WE ENHANCE OUR OWN SENSE OF CONFIDENCE WITHIN OUR OWN RELIGIOUS OUR OWN SENSE OF CONFIDENCE WITHIN OUR OWN RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY AND CAN REACH OUT WITHIN OUR OWN RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY AND CAN REACH OUT MORE CONFIDENTLY AND MORE COMMUNITY AND CAN REACH OUT MORE CONFIDENTLY AND MORE COOPERATIVELY TO REALIZE ALL MORE CONFIDENTLY AND MORE COOPERATIVELY TO REALIZE ALL OF US TOGETHER CREATE A MUCH COOPERATIVELY TO REALIZE ALL OF US TOGETHER CREATE A MUCH GREATER SENSE OF SPIRITUAL OF US TOGETHER CREATE A MUCH GREATER SENSE OF SPIRITUAL STRENGTH. GREATER SENSE OF SPIRITUAL STRENGTH. >> ALL THREE OF THE STRENGTH. >> ALL THREE OF THE COMMUNITIES ARE OF MIDDLE >> ALL THREE OF THE COMMUNITIES ARE OF MIDDLE EASTERN ORIGIN, THEY SHARE A COMMUNITIES ARE OF MIDDLE EASTERN ORIGIN, THEY SHARE A COMMON HERITAGE. EASTERN ORIGIN, THEY SHARE A COMMON HERITAGE. THEY ARE ALL FROM THAT COMMON HERITAGE. THEY ARE ALL FROM THAT SEMITTIC CULTURE OF THE THEY ARE ALL FROM THAT SEMITTIC CULTURE OF THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST. SEMITTIC CULTURE OF THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST. AND WE HAVE A LOT IN COMMON. ANCIENT NEAR EAST. AND WE HAVE A LOT IN COMMON. WE CELEBRATE OUR RELIGIOUS AND WE HAVE A LOT IN COMMON. WE CELEBRATE OUR RELIGIOUS VALUES DIFFERENTLY, BUT WE WE CELEBRATE OUR RELIGIOUS VALUES DIFFERENTLY, BUT WE SHARE THE SAME ETHICAL AND VALUES DIFFERENTLY, BUT WE SHARE THE SAME ETHICAL AND MORAL VALUES AND SAME SHARE THE SAME ETHICAL AND MORAL VALUES AND SAME COMMITMENT TO THE SAME BASIC MORAL VALUES AND SAME COMMITMENT TO THE SAME BASIC COMMANDMENTS OF CARING FOR COMMITMENT TO THE SAME BASIC COMMANDMENTS OF CARING FOR OUR FELLOW MAN AND OUR COMMANDMENTS OF CARING FOR OUR FELLOW MAN AND OUR COMMUNITY. OUR FELLOW MAN AND OUR COMMUNITY. BUT THOSE ARE CELEBRATED WITH COMMUNITY. BUT THOSE ARE CELEBRATED WITH DIFFERENT RITUAL ACTIONS THAT BUT THOSE ARE CELEBRATED WITH DIFFERENT RITUAL ACTIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE AND DIFFERENT RITUAL ACTIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE AND VALUABLE. ARE DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE AND VALUABLE. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE VALUABLE. YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T INTERPRET YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T INTERPRET THE CURAN WITHOUT REFERENCE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T INTERPRET THE CURAN WITHOUT REFERENCE TO JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, THE CURAN WITHOUT REFERENCE TO JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, AND I THINK IN CHRISTIANITY, TO JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY, AND I THINK IN CHRISTIANITY, IT IS DEPENDENT ALSO ON THE AND I THINK IN CHRISTIANITY, IT IS DEPENDENT ALSO ON THE JEWISH ROOTS. IT IS DEPENDENT ALSO ON THE JEWISH ROOTS. AND ALL OF US NEED THE OTHER, JEWISH ROOTS. AND ALL OF US NEED THE OTHER, AND WE CAN'T ACTUALLY -- IN AND ALL OF US NEED THE OTHER, AND WE CAN'T ACTUALLY -- IN FACT, WE ARE RICHER BECAUSE AND WE CAN'T ACTUALLY -- IN FACT, WE ARE RICHER BECAUSE OF OUR ASSOCIATION. FACT, WE ARE RICHER BECAUSE OF OUR ASSOCIATION. AND WE WOULD BE POORER OF OUR ASSOCIATION. AND WE WOULD BE POORER WITHOUT THE OTHER. AND WE WOULD BE POORER WITHOUT THE OTHER. AND IT GIVES US A MEANING AND WITHOUT THE OTHER. AND IT GIVES US A MEANING AND PURPOSE. AND IT GIVES US A MEANING AND PURPOSE. COMPARING AND CONTRASTING PURPOSE. COMPARING AND CONTRASTING MAKES US ALL UNDERSTAND OUR COMPARING AND CONTRASTING MAKES US ALL UNDERSTAND OUR OWN TRADITIONS BETTER. MAKES US ALL UNDERSTAND OUR OWN TRADITIONS BETTER. >> SO WE'VE SPENT A COUPLE OF OWN TRADITIONS BETTER. >> SO WE'VE SPENT A COUPLE OF MINUTES TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S >> SO WE'VE SPENT A COUPLE OF MINUTES TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S COMMON, AND THE FACT THAT MINUTES TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S COMMON, AND THE FACT THAT THIS WAS CONTROVERSIAL IN THE COMMON, AND THE FACT THAT THIS WAS CONTROVERSIAL IN THE FIRST PLACE GOES NOT ONLY TO THIS WAS CONTROVERSIAL IN THE FIRST PLACE GOES NOT ONLY TO THE FACT OF THE WAY THE FIRST PLACE GOES NOT ONLY TO THE FACT OF THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS RAISED AT THE THE FACT OF THE WAY THE QUESTION WAS RAISED AT THE FORUM, BUT ALSO, REVEREND, QUESTION WAS RAISED AT THE FORUM, BUT ALSO, REVEREND, YOU SAID THAT THERE ARE FORUM, BUT ALSO, REVEREND, YOU SAID THAT THERE ARE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS TO BE YOU SAID THAT THERE ARE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD. DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS TO BE HAD. SO RATHER THAN LEAVE THIS HAD. SO RATHER THAN LEAVE THIS BEING JUST A LOVEFEST, WHICH SO RATHER THAN LEAVE THIS BEING JUST A LOVEFEST, WHICH IT'S GREAT THAT IT CAN BE, BEING JUST A LOVEFEST, WHICH IT'S GREAT THAT IT CAN BE, AND IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU ARE IT'S GREAT THAT IT CAN BE, AND IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU ARE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH ONE AND IT'S CLEAR THAT YOU ARE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH ONE ANOTHER, LET'S TALK A LITTLE ALL COMFORTABLE WITH ONE ANOTHER, LET'S TALK A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFICULT ANOTHER, LET'S TALK A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS ARE. ABOUT WHAT THE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS ARE. REVEREND, WHAT IS IT THAT IS CONVERSATIONS ARE. REVEREND, WHAT IS IT THAT IS HARD TO TALK ABOUT? REVEREND, WHAT IS IT THAT IS HARD TO TALK ABOUT? >> ONE THING THAT'S CERTAINLY HARD TO TALK ABOUT? >> ONE THING THAT'S CERTAINLY HARD TO TALK ABOUT IS A >> ONE THING THAT'S CERTAINLY HARD TO TALK ABOUT IS A CONFLICTED HISTORY. HARD TO TALK ABOUT IS A CONFLICTED HISTORY. IN THE CASE OF CHRISTIANITY, CONFLICTED HISTORY. IN THE CASE OF CHRISTIANITY, THERE WAS AN EPISODE A IN THE CASE OF CHRISTIANITY, THERE WAS AN EPISODE A THOUSAND YEARS AGO KNOWN AS THERE WAS AN EPISODE A THOUSAND YEARS AGO KNOWN AS THE CRUSADE. THOUSAND YEARS AGO KNOWN AS THE CRUSADE. IN FACT -- THAT WORD IN SOME THE CRUSADE. IN FACT -- THAT WORD IN SOME SENSE HAS BEEN SEIZED UPON BY IN FACT -- THAT WORD IN SOME SENSE HAS BEEN SEIZED UPON BY EXTREMISTS TO TRY TO FLAG -- SENSE HAS BEEN SEIZED UPON BY EXTREMISTS TO TRY TO FLAG -- >> WHO IS EXTREMIST? EXTREMISTS TO TRY TO FLAG -- >> WHO IS EXTREMIST? >> IN THIS CASE, MIDDLE >> WHO IS EXTREMIST? >> IN THIS CASE, MIDDLE EASTERN EXTREMISTS, PRIMARILY >> IN THIS CASE, MIDDLE EASTERN EXTREMISTS, PRIMARILY MUSLIM EXTREMIST *S, WHO EASTERN EXTREMISTS, PRIMARILY MUSLIM EXTREMIST *S, WHO WOULD FLAG THE CRUSADES AS AN MUSLIM EXTREMIST *S, WHO WOULD FLAG THE CRUSADES AS AN EPISODE THAT CHARACTERIZES WOULD FLAG THE CRUSADES AS AN EPISODE THAT CHARACTERIZES CHRISTIANITY FOR ALL TIME AND EPISODE THAT CHARACTERIZES CHRISTIANITY FOR ALL TIME AND CHARACTERIZES WESTERN CHRISTIANITY FOR ALL TIME AND CHARACTERIZES WESTERN POLITICAL INTENTIONS TODAY CHARACTERIZES WESTERN POLITICAL INTENTIONS TODAY AND THE CRUSADE IS CERTAINLY POLITICAL INTENTIONS TODAY AND THE CRUSADE IS CERTAINLY AN EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF AND THE CRUSADE IS CERTAINLY AN EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE AN EPISODE IN THE HISTORY OF CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE REGRETFUL, TO SAY THE LEAST, CHRISTIANITY THAT ARE REGRETFUL, TO SAY THE LEAST, IF NOT SHAMEFUL. REGRETFUL, TO SAY THE LEAST, IF NOT SHAMEFUL. SO WE HAVE A CONFLICTED IF NOT SHAMEFUL. SO WE HAVE A CONFLICTED HISTORY THAT WE DO NEED TO SO WE HAVE A CONFLICTED HISTORY THAT WE DO NEED TO MOVE BEYOND. HISTORY THAT WE DO NEED TO MOVE BEYOND. AND I CAN'T SAY THAT WITHOUT MOVE BEYOND. AND I CAN'T SAY THAT WITHOUT MENTIONING THE HOL CAUST -- AND I CAN'T SAY THAT WITHOUT MENTIONING THE HOL CAUST -- HOLE COST AS -- HOLOCAUST AS MENTIONING THE HOL CAUST -- HOLE COST AS -- HOLOCAUST AS WELL. HOLE COST AS -- HOLOCAUST AS WELL. THE DIFFICULT ISSUES IN THE WELL. THE DIFFICULT ISSUES IN THE PAST AND THE DIFFERENCES THE DIFFICULT ISSUES IN THE PAST AND THE DIFFERENCES AMONG US TODAY ARE NOT PAST AND THE DIFFERENCES AMONG US TODAY ARE NOT IMPEDIMENTS, THEY ARE AMONG US TODAY ARE NOT IMPEDIMENTS, THEY ARE INCENTIVES. IMPEDIMENTS, THEY ARE INCENTIVES. >> AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU INCENTIVES. >> AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU WHETHER JUST THE EXISTENCE OF >> AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU WHETHER JUST THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINE -- WHETHER JUST THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINE -- >> I THINK THAT IS A ISRAEL AND PALESTINE -- >> I THINK THAT IS A QUESTION, ON MANY LEVELS, >> I THINK THAT IS A QUESTION, ON MANY LEVELS, IT'S POLITICAL. QUESTION, ON MANY LEVELS, IT'S POLITICAL. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST IT'S POLITICAL. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST TIME. WE TALKED ABOUT THAT LAST TIME. IS IT RELIGIOUS. TIME. IS IT RELIGIOUS. WELL, SOMETIMES WE WILL TAKE IS IT RELIGIOUS. WELL, SOMETIMES WE WILL TAKE RELIGION AND USE IT AS A WELL, SOMETIMES WE WILL TAKE RELIGION AND USE IT AS A PRETEXT. RELIGION AND USE IT AS A PRETEXT. BUT IT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS PRETEXT. BUT IT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED. BUT IT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED. AND IT'S A HARD QUESTION AND TO BE DISCUSSED. AND IT'S A HARD QUESTION AND THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS TO AND IT'S A HARD QUESTION AND THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS TO DEAL WITH IT, THE ISLAMIC THE JEWISH COMMUNITY HAS TO DEAL WITH IT, THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY HAS TO DEAL WITH DEAL WITH IT, THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY HAS TO DEAL WITH IT. COMMUNITY HAS TO DEAL WITH IT. >> WHAT DO YOU SAY IN THAT IT. >> WHAT DO YOU SAY IN THAT CONVERSATION? >> WHAT DO YOU SAY IN THAT CONVERSATION? WHAT IS THAT CONVERSATION? CONVERSATION? WHAT IS THAT CONVERSATION? >> I MIGHT SAY SOMETHING WHAT IS THAT CONVERSATION? >> I MIGHT SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS WILL. >> I MIGHT SAY SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS WILL. BUT I HAVE CERTAIN VIEWS ON DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS WILL. BUT I HAVE CERTAIN VIEWS ON WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE THAT BUT I HAVE CERTAIN VIEWS ON WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE THAT JUDAISM CAN LEGITIMATELY -- WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE THAT JUDAISM CAN LEGITIMATELY -- AND OTHER PEOPLE CAN HAVE A JUDAISM CAN LEGITIMATELY -- AND OTHER PEOPLE CAN HAVE A SECOND AREA SITUATION WHEN IT AND OTHER PEOPLE CAN HAVE A SECOND AREA SITUATION WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNANCE AND SECOND AREA SITUATION WHEN IT COMES TO GOVERNANCE AND FREEDOM. COMES TO GOVERNANCE AND FREEDOM. THAT'S NOT A JEWISH VALUE. FREEDOM. THAT'S NOT A JEWISH VALUE. SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT'S NOT A JEWISH VALUE. SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT TWO-STATE SOLUTIONS AND SO I HAVE TO LOOK AT TWO-STATE SOLUTIONS AND ISSUES OF THAT NATURE. TWO-STATE SOLUTIONS AND ISSUES OF THAT NATURE. YET, STILL, UNDERSTAND THAT ISSUES OF THAT NATURE. YET, STILL, UNDERSTAND THAT THE FULL RIGHT AND PRIVILEGE YET, STILL, UNDERSTAND THAT THE FULL RIGHT AND PRIVILEGE OF THE JEWISH STATE, TO BE A THE FULL RIGHT AND PRIVILEGE OF THE JEWISH STATE, TO BE A THRIVING JEWISH STATE THERE, OF THE JEWISH STATE, TO BE A THRIVING JEWISH STATE THERE, IT SHOULD NOT BE TO THE THRIVING JEWISH STATE THERE, IT SHOULD NOT BE TO THE EXCLUSION OF OTHER PEOPLE. IT SHOULD NOT BE TO THE EXCLUSION OF OTHER PEOPLE. >> DO YOU FIND YOU CAN HAVE EXCLUSION OF OTHER PEOPLE. >> DO YOU FIND YOU CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, FIRST OF >> DO YOU FIND YOU CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, FIRST OF ALL, WITH OTHER JEWS AND CAN THAT CONVERSATION, FIRST OF ALL, WITH OTHER JEWS AND CAN YOU HAVE THAT CONVERSATION ALL, WITH OTHER JEWS AND CAN YOU HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH MUSLIMS IN A YOU HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH MUSLIMS IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY, WHERE WITH MUSLIMS IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY, WHERE ANYTHING POSITIVE COMES OUT CONSTRUCTIVE WAY, WHERE ANYTHING POSITIVE COMES OUT OF IT, ASIDE FROM YOU BOTH ANYTHING POSITIVE COMES OUT OF IT, ASIDE FROM YOU BOTH ASSERTING YOUR POINTS OF OF IT, ASIDE FROM YOU BOTH ASSERTING YOUR POINTS OF VIEW? ASSERTING YOUR POINTS OF VIEW? >> SOMETIMES I CAN HAVE A VIEW? >> SOMETIMES I CAN HAVE A MORE EFFECTIVE END TO THAT >> SOMETIMES I CAN HAVE A MORE EFFECTIVE END TO THAT CONVERSATION ON THE ISLAMIC MORE EFFECTIVE END TO THAT CONVERSATION ON THE ISLAMIC SIDE THAN IN SOME CASES IN CONVERSATION ON THE ISLAMIC SIDE THAN IN SOME CASES IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. SIDE THAN IN SOME CASES IN THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. I THINK, YES, WE ARE READY THE JEWISH COMMUNITY. I THINK, YES, WE ARE READY FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS. I THINK, YES, WE ARE READY FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS. THOSE ARE HARD, HARD FOR THOSE DISCUSSIONS. THOSE ARE HARD, HARD DISCUSSIONS AND WE HAVE TO THOSE ARE HARD, HARD DISCUSSIONS AND WE HAVE TO GET PAST TALKING AT EACH DISCUSSIONS AND WE HAVE TO GET PAST TALKING AT EACH OTHER AND TALKING ABOUT AND GET PAST TALKING AT EACH OTHER AND TALKING ABOUT AND WITH EACH OTHER ON HOW TO OTHER AND TALKING ABOUT AND WITH EACH OTHER ON HOW TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE WITH EACH OTHER ON HOW TO COME TO CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE SPIRITUAL, BENEFICIAL AND COME TO CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE SPIRITUAL, BENEFICIAL AND APPROPRIATE FOR EVERYBODY. SPIRITUAL, BENEFICIAL AND APPROPRIATE FOR EVERYBODY. >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION FOR APPROPRIATE FOR EVERYBODY. >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION FOR YOU, WHAT ARE THE HARD >> IMAM, SAME QUESTION FOR YOU, WHAT ARE THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? YOU, WHAT ARE THE HARD CONVERSATIONS? >> MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, CONVERSATIONS? >> MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, AMERICANS OF ALL FAITHS HAVE >> MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS, JEWS, AMERICANS OF ALL FAITHS HAVE IDEALS, AND THEY BELIEVE VERY AMERICANS OF ALL FAITHS HAVE IDEALS, AND THEY BELIEVE VERY OFTEN THAT THEY HAVE IDEALS IDEALS, AND THEY BELIEVE VERY OFTEN THAT THEY HAVE IDEALS WHICH ARE VALUABLE AND THAT OFTEN THAT THEY HAVE IDEALS WHICH ARE VALUABLE AND THAT SHOULD BE SHARED, AND THEY WHICH ARE VALUABLE AND THAT SHOULD BE SHARED, AND THEY SOMETIMES REACH OTHERS WHO SHOULD BE SHARED, AND THEY SOMETIMES REACH OTHERS WHO OPPOSE OTHERS' VIEWPOINTS. SOMETIMES REACH OTHERS WHO OPPOSE OTHERS' VIEWPOINTS. BUT WE HAVE THIS IDEA THAT WE OPPOSE OTHERS' VIEWPOINTS. BUT WE HAVE THIS IDEA THAT WE CAN USE VIOLENCE TO ELIMINATE BUT WE HAVE THIS IDEA THAT WE CAN USE VIOLENCE TO ELIMINATE OPPOSITION TO OUR IDEAL, SO CAN USE VIOLENCE TO ELIMINATE OPPOSITION TO OUR IDEAL, SO TO JUSTIFY THAT, WE MIGHT USE OPPOSITION TO OUR IDEAL, SO TO JUSTIFY THAT, WE MIGHT USE VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF TO JUSTIFY THAT, WE MIGHT USE VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY OR CAPITALISM OR IN VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF DEMOCRACY OR CAPITALISM OR IN THE NAME OF ISLAM OR ANY DEMOCRACY OR CAPITALISM OR IN THE NAME OF ISLAM OR ANY OTHER RELIGION. THE NAME OF ISLAM OR ANY OTHER RELIGION. AND THAT IS A COMMON PROBLEM OTHER RELIGION. AND THAT IS A COMMON PROBLEM OF HUMANITY, WHERE WE HAVE AND THAT IS A COMMON PROBLEM OF HUMANITY, WHERE WE HAVE TODAY BUDDHISTS, MONKS, OF HUMANITY, WHERE WE HAVE TODAY BUDDHISTS, MONKS, LEADING MASSACRES OF MUSLIM TODAY BUDDHISTS, MONKS, LEADING MASSACRES OF MUSLIM CIVILIANS. LEADING MASSACRES OF MUSLIM CIVILIANS. AND WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK CIVILIANS. AND WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TERRORISM IN THE NAME AND WE DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TERRORISM IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, WHICH IS ALL OVER ABOUT TERRORISM IN THE NAME OF ISLAM, WHICH IS ALL OVER THE MEDIA. OF ISLAM, WHICH IS ALL OVER THE MEDIA. SO THE REAL QUESTION, THE THE MEDIA. SO THE REAL QUESTION, THE REAL HARD TOPIC, IS WHY WE SO THE REAL QUESTION, THE REAL HARD TOPIC, IS WHY WE STILL ARE CONVINCED THAT REAL HARD TOPIC, IS WHY WE STILL ARE CONVINCED THAT VIOLENCE IS GOING TO SOLVE STILL ARE CONVINCED THAT VIOLENCE IS GOING TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS ON THIS PLANET. VIOLENCE IS GOING TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS ON THIS PLANET. AND THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT ALL OUR PROBLEMS ON THIS PLANET. AND THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT ALL OF US SHARE AND THAT NONE OF AND THAT'S A PROBLEM THAT ALL OF US SHARE AND THAT NONE OF US ARE FREE FROM OR INNOCENT OF US SHARE AND THAT NONE OF US ARE FREE FROM OR INNOCENT OF. US ARE FREE FROM OR INNOCENT OF. >> LAST THING I WANT TO ASK OF. >> LAST THING I WANT TO ASK YOU, THE THREE OF YOU, >> LAST THING I WANT TO ASK YOU, THE THREE OF YOU, GETTING ALONG WITH ONE YOU, THE THREE OF YOU, GETTING ALONG WITH ONE ANOTHER, YOU ARE ROLE MODELS GETTING ALONG WITH ONE ANOTHER, YOU ARE ROLE MODELS OUT THERE, BUT HOW DIFFICULT ANOTHER, YOU ARE ROLE MODELS OUT THERE, BUT HOW DIFFICULT IS IT FOR PEOPLE TO BE YOU? OUT THERE, BUT HOW DIFFICULT IS IT FOR PEOPLE TO BE YOU? ARE YOU SPECIAL GUYS IN IS IT FOR PEOPLE TO BE YOU? ARE YOU SPECIAL GUYS IN HAVING FIGURED THIS OUT? ARE YOU SPECIAL GUYS IN HAVING FIGURED THIS OUT? DID YOU HAVE TO WORK AT THIS? HAVING FIGURED THIS OUT? DID YOU HAVE TO WORK AT THIS? DID YOU MAKE A DECISION TO DO DID YOU HAVE TO WORK AT THIS? DID YOU MAKE A DECISION TO DO THIS? DID YOU MAKE A DECISION TO DO THIS? OR TO JUST -- DID IT KIND OF THIS? OR TO JUST -- DID IT KIND OF COME UP NATURALLY? OR TO JUST -- DID IT KIND OF COME UP NATURALLY? >> IT CAME UP NATURALLY. COME UP NATURALLY? >> IT CAME UP NATURALLY. I WILL SAY THAT WE -- I THINK >> IT CAME UP NATURALLY. I WILL SAY THAT WE -- I THINK EACH OF US HAD TO HAVE A I WILL SAY THAT WE -- I THINK EACH OF US HAD TO HAVE A CERTAIN COMFORT LEVEL TO EVEN EACH OF US HAD TO HAVE A CERTAIN COMFORT LEVEL TO EVEN GET TOGETHER WITH ONE ANOTHER CERTAIN COMFORT LEVEL TO EVEN GET TOGETHER WITH ONE ANOTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT ONCE GET TOGETHER WITH ONE ANOTHER IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT ONCE WE GOT TOGETHER, WE IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT ONCE WE GOT TOGETHER, WE DISCOVERED THAT WE CARED WE GOT TOGETHER, WE DISCOVERED THAT WE CARED ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY, WE DISCOVERED THAT WE CARED ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY, WE DISCOVERED THAT OUR FAITH HAD ABOUT THIS COMMUNITY, WE DISCOVERED THAT OUR FAITH HAD REALLY BROUGHT US TOGETHER, DISCOVERED THAT OUR FAITH HAD REALLY BROUGHT US TOGETHER, AND THEN WE FOUND THAT WE REALLY BROUGHT US TOGETHER, AND THEN WE FOUND THAT WE LIKED EACH OTHER. AND THEN WE FOUND THAT WE LIKED EACH OTHER. >> SO IT CAN WORK. LIKED EACH OTHER. >> SO IT CAN WORK. IT CAN WORK. >> SO IT CAN WORK. IT CAN WORK. >> I'VE MET THOUSANDS OF IT CAN WORK. >> I'VE MET THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, CHRISTIANS AND >> I'VE MET THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, CHRISTIANS AND ESPECIALLY -- JEWS AND PEOPLE PEOPLE, CHRISTIANS AND ESPECIALLY -- JEWS AND PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH AND NO FAITH ESPECIALLY -- JEWS AND PEOPLE OF OTHER FAITH AND NO FAITH WHO HAVE COME TO OUR MOSQUE OF OTHER FAITH AND NO FAITH WHO HAVE COME TO OUR MOSQUE OR WHO INVITE US TO COME AND WHO HAVE COME TO OUR MOSQUE OR WHO INVITE US TO COME AND SPEAK TO THEIR PLACE OF OR WHO INVITE US TO COME AND SPEAK TO THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP OR THEIR SCHOOLS OR SPEAK TO THEIR PLACE OF WORSHIP OR THEIR SCHOOLS OR OTHER FORUMS, AND I HAVE MET WORSHIP OR THEIR SCHOOLS OR OTHER FORUMS, AND I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T VERY NICE, OTHER FORUMS, AND I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T VERY NICE, AND I'VE MET MUSLIMS I DIDN'T PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T VERY NICE, AND I'VE MET MUSLIMS I DIDN'T LIKE VERY MUCH, BUT OVERALL, AND I'VE MET MUSLIMS I DIDN'T LIKE VERY MUCH, BUT OVERALL, MOST PEOPLE ARE POLITE AND LIKE VERY MUCH, BUT OVERALL, MOST PEOPLE ARE POLITE AND NICE AND IF YOU CAN GET OVER MOST PEOPLE ARE POLITE AND NICE AND IF YOU CAN GET OVER DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND NICE AND IF YOU CAN GET OVER DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND LOOK IT TO THE PEOPLE AS DIFFERENCES OF OPINION AND LOOK IT TO THE PEOPLE AS HUMANS, YOU WILL USUALLY FIND LOOK IT TO THE PEOPLE AS HUMANS, YOU WILL USUALLY FIND A GOOD RESULT IN THE END AND HUMANS, YOU WILL USUALLY FIND A GOOD RESULT IN THE END AND THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE, AND I A GOOD RESULT IN THE END AND THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE, AND I KEEP MY FAITH IN HUMANITY AS THAT'S MY EXPERIENCE, AND I KEEP MY FAITH IN HUMANITY AS A WHOLE. KEEP MY FAITH IN HUMANITY AS A WHOLE. >> I WANT TO THANK THE THREE A WHOLE. >> I WANT TO THANK THE THREE OF YOU FOR TAKING TIME WITH >> I WANT TO THANK THE THREE OF YOU FOR TAKING TIME WITH US AND WE WANT TO THANK THE OF YOU FOR TAKING TIME WITH US AND WE WANT TO THANK THE RICHMOND FORUM FOR BRINGING US AND WE WANT TO THANK THE RICHMOND FORUM FOR BRINGING FOURTH CONVERSATION TO YOU RICHMOND FORUM FOR BRINGING FOURTH CONVERSATION TO YOU AND ALSO THIS CONVERSATION. FOURTH CONVERSATION TO YOU AND ALSO THIS CONVERSATION. I'M JOHN DONVAN, THANK YOU AND ALSO THIS CONVERSATION. I'M JOHN DONVAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. I'M JOHN DONVAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US. CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY CAPTION ASSOCIATES, LLC WWW.CAPTIONASSOCIATES.COM HOL COST HOL COST HOLE COST