Proceedings of the South Wales Institute of Engineers

Transcription

Kerry: I'm Kerry Cassidy from project Camelot, and we are here with Laura Knight-Jadczyk. And she's got a huge body of work that I'm amazed by. You are intellectually very astute. You're an amazing researcher. You're also a wonderful channel, if you want to call yourself a channel. It's kind of a loose, loose way-- Laura: I avoid that term. Kerry: Ok, fine. And I've studied your work. And I'm really impressed. Laura: Thank you. Kerry: What would be great is to hear a little bit about your intellectual history, because you're an amazing writer and you're very clear. You're very clear in the way you think. That's what I've gathered from reading your work. And I think that's a special skill and so maybe you could talk about, just for the very basics. 'Cause some people out there are going to want to know: did you graduate from college? You know, that kind of thing? Laura: No I didn't graduate from college. I had children instead. And that's a fairly common story for many very bright, intelligent, women who are brought up to take care of other people. They have children, or they have families and that's, we're taught that that's the most important thing, for a woman. My generation was taught that. And when the family comes along, everything else gets put aside. It was rather difficult for me because I did have a very powerful curiosity that's been described by other people as epic curiosity. And I would say that if anything describes me, that's curiosity, I'm a walking question mark. I literally want to know everything. And I know it's impossible to know everything, but I want to grab everything I can as long as I'm alive. I did go to college. I was kind of a professional student for two or three years. but then like I said, I had a baby and that was the end of my college career. But it wasn't the end of my intellectual pursuits, because I had developed the habit as a very young child, of reading approximately an entire book every day. And, when I, and that really started after I had been in seventh grade, when I was what, thirteen years old? Because we had a teacher who taught us to speed read, which was a very clever thing. He had a machine that he brought into class, he taught everybody to speed read. And I thought: “This is the greatest thing since sliced bread”, because I can read very very fast and I was blessed with a photographic memory, so that I could not only read, but I could remember everything I read. This was very handy at test time because I could pull everything out of my memory for taking tests. So I was very good at taking tests, but I was really bad at doing homework. Because for me homework was just drudgery. Why should I sit there and write down for somebody else to prove that I've done this busy work. It didn't interest me. I mean, I had read the book, I had the material in my head, I didn't see any point in belaboring it. I wanted to go to the next thing. So, I didn't turn in a lot of homework, but I made A's on all my tests. So that kind of confuses teachers who like things to be done by the book. So I continued this habit, all through the time my children were little. And as I've written at the point that I'd had my fourth child. And I was bedridden. So, not only did I pursue my habit of reading as much as I possibly could, but I got into some other things because there was a lot of stress in my life. So I began practicing things like meditation, and so on an so forth. Kerry: And how old were you approximately during this time. When you started meditating for example-- Laura: When I started meditating. Let's see, what... my fourth child was born in 1985, so that would be when I started meditating. Kerry: And how did that go for you? Laura: Well I had extraordinary results in a very short period of time. And that's a whole other story because we've developed a meditation, a breathing and meditation program based on the technique that I developed more or less on my own Kerry: When did you train as a hypnotherapist? Laura: When I was in-- when I was going to college, I was what 21 years old? Kerry: Oh really? So you'd already decided to go in that direction? Laura: Yeah, because I wanted to know everything. And one of the things I wanted to know was what goes on in the human mind. What makes people act the way they do? What makes people think the way they do? Why is it that people say that they love something and then they treat it so abominably? Why do people say, “I'm a good person” and act so bad. And why do all of the contradictions of life because people say things, but then you see in reality that that's not exactly what really happens. And, for example, and of course there's the religious impetus. I was brought up in a very religious family. We were Methodist when I was growing up. And... Kerry: Well we actually want to go there slightly. I know that you had sort of a time in which you were, I don't know if you want to call it kidnapped or something of that nature. By a family member, I think? Someone related to you? Laura: Yes: stepfather. Kerry: Because that seems to have, sort of motivated you. Laura: That was kind of the, it was the trigger. I was two, two and a half, three years old. And my mother and father had been divorced when I was very young. Obviously because they were divorced before I was two and a half or three. And my mother had been, had married, or remarried a man who was an ex-Navy man that she met in Orlando where she was living and working at the time when we were living there. And it varies, after a whirlwind courtship, and I think it was because he danced so well. My mother was a dancer. And so he moved us to Jacksonville, and it was in Jacksonville that he started behaving rather erratically, to say the least. Doing strange things like: she would come home, and find him huddled in a fetal position in the closet, with his hands over his head, and saying that somebody was coming to get him, or something was going on, he was extremely paranoid. And my mother knew this wasn't normal behavior. And it got worse so there was a separation. And I, being a child, in those days parents didn't really tell children what's going on. It's not like “Oh you're not supposed to talk to your stepfather anymore.” And actually I liked him. He was kind of fun. He was entertaining. He was good to me. So, he had been showing me pictures of cars in a magazine and asked me, he said he wanted to get a new car and if he was going to get a new car, what color car I would want. And I said yellow and black. And, so several weeks later, and this was after he was gone, he drives up to the house in a yellow and black convertible. And, 'Do you wanna go for a ride?' And since nobody had told me I wasn't supposed to speak to him, or go anywhere with him, 'Of course I'll go.' So I went for a ride. We went down a long drive through a lot of forest. Came to a road that turned off into the forest, drove down this long road. And at the end of this road there was a clearing, like a perfectly square, well-mown clearing. You know, grass, and in the center of the clearing was a small, white, clapboard house with a porch. It just looked like an ordinary, like a farmhouse even. Except that there was nothing anywhere around this. I mean it was smack in the middle of this very large clearing, that was very well manicured. And there were two men in khaki-looking uniforms and a woman in a white dress that were standing on the porch. We drive up to the house and they said, 'Well, we've been waiting for you.' And welcomed me to come inside the house. And sat me down at a dining room table. And I remember sitting down at the dining room table and they were asking me questions. I don't remember the questions. And then one of them said, 'You must very tired. You need to take a nap.' And I agreed, and they took me into this room and there was a stainless steel baby bed. And they put me in this stainless steel baby bed and gave me a bottle. And I'm thinking, I'm two and a half, three years old. I didn't think that, but I'm thinking, I'm too big for a bottle. But they gave me this bottle and said, 'Here, no, it's ok, you can have this.' And so I started to drink this bottle, 'cause I was hungry. And that's the last thing I remember, until I was in the, I remember sitting in the car, with my stepfather, and we were driving very fast through a lot of flashing lights. So it was like in the city. And we were being chased by the police. And he was trying to weave around to avoid capture and going very fast and turning corners and so forth. And then he ended up, because apparently there was another one that was coming around from the front, and so he drove up on somebody's lawn and crashed into a palm tree. And I hit my face on the dashboard. And I remember the policeman coming and taking me out of the car. And then I remember the policeman handing me over to my mother. And that's basically what I remembered for most of my life. Everything, from the time I drank that bottle, until I came to myself in this car, was a complete blank. Kerry: And when did you start to recover those memories. Laura: Well, the first problem with something like that is we're talking about the memory of a two and a half, three year old child. Is the child remembering, and I understood this, am I remembering anything accurately? So of course, I had to question my mother about it. And she gave some details, and what had happened, that is known from the outside, is that as soon as she had discovered that I was missing, she called my grandmother in Tampa, this is when we were in Jacksonville. She called my grandmother in Tampa. My grandmother called my grandfather, who was in Nassau. In fact, I don't think he was in Nassau, he was on an island working on an engineering job. And they sent a plane to pick him up, from the out island, to Nassau. Flew from Nassau to Tampa. Got in this car, drove to Jacksonville. So, at least two full days, possibly three had passed before he went to the police station with my mother. Because my mother had gone to the police station, and they had told her that because she was married to this man and he was my legal stepfather, that she couldn't file any kind of kidnapping charge against him. Because he was entitled to take me where he wanted to take me. So when my grandfather got in there he apparently was a little more forceful than my mother. And they began to take it seriously, which is why when they spotted my stepfather driving down the road with me in the car, they began to pursue. Kerry: Do you know how many days, went by? Laura: Well my mother, when I finally questioned her about it, she didn't really remember, she just said it was several days. And as I just said, I figure it must have been two or three, because of the time that it could have been three or four. Because of the time it took for the information to get to my grandfather, for him to get there, he had to... Kerry: Were they wealthy? I mean, you're saying he flew from here to there, and so on and so forth. Laura: My grandparents were like middle-class people. He was a marine engineer. He designed and supervised the building of ships. Before that he had done bridges and dredges and so forth. And so he was very well off. Kerry: Was your father employed at that? I mean was your stepfather employed at that time? Laura: That I can't tell you, I don't know. I don't know. Kerry: Did you ever see him in uniform? Laura: No, but that was a peculiar thing because after this event, according to my mother, they went to the police station to sign papers to press charges. And when they got there, they found that he had been taken into custody, that the Navy department had showed up, to take him into custody because he'd belonged to them. And later on it was suggested that he worked for ONI. And I, of course read a great deal of the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people. Kerry: Did you have brothers and sisters? Laura: I have one brother. Kerry: Ok, and he wasn't kidnapped? Laura: No. Kerry: Interesting. And what is your, if you don't mind my asking, are you, do you have a, are you Celtic? Laura: Well, I suppose... Kerry: Well, the reason there's a basis for that. Because I don't know if you're familiar with Duncan O'Finioan, the super soldier that we interviewed, but, his background is Celtic and Native American. And they were looking for, he was basically picked up as a child. His father worked for the CIA. And so what they seem to have done, especially back in the 50's, was to target the children of people that were related to the military and special services. Laura: Well I can tell you a little, I mean my genealogy is up on the Internet on my website. I got into genealogy at one point pretty obsessively, nine or ten hours a day for a year. And finally my husband said to me, 'When are you gonna be satisfied, when you get back to Adam?' And then I'd realized I had been giving it a lot, way too much time. But I'm descended from the Percys. Of Henry Hotspur fame. That's an interesting family. That's also their... Kerry: That's an Illuminati name though, isn't it? Laura: I don't think so because the Percy family that now carries the name is not even blood relation to the original Percys. The Percys spend a lot of time in opposition to the royal ruling families of England, quite a few ancestors ended their days in cages hanging from the outsides of castle walls. Their castle, which, of course no longer belongs to them. There's a family called Percy that's there, you know the Duke of Northumberland is the castle that they filmed the Harry Potter films in, by the way. Kerry: But you're saying that's not your family lineage? Laura: No, though the people who are currently carrying the name aren't even Percys. Kerry: Interesting, Ok. Laura: They, they took the name and... Kerry: So their real name is Perceval? Laura: Actually their name was Smithson. And they are directly related to the individual who went to America and created the Smithsonian Institution. And also there's another branch of the family, I hate to admit this, but I gotta tell you, that another branch of the family are the Pierces that gave birth to Barbara Pierce and married George Bush. Kerry: Really? Laura: Very distant relation. They were very distant. Kerry: No it's all in the human family right? So... Laura: Yeah. They spell their name with a “P-i-e”, my Percys when they came to America they spelled it “P-e-a-r-c-e”. So there was an immediate split, like in 1600, that's how long ago it was? So, don't hook me up with those people. Kerry: No, I hear you. But to get back to the story, so when did your memories, I mean of this incident, in which we don't know what exactly, I don't know, at least you're not telling me at the moment. But did you find out what exactly happened to you during those four days in some kind of regression therapy? Laura: Well this is something that really bothered me, because as I said I have a pretty photographic memory and I can remember all the way back to being an infant in the highchair being fed. Those are some, among my earliest memories, not even being able to handle a spoon myself, but being conscious, fully conscious of myself. And the people around me in the room and having memories of what's going on. So having a period of my life that was just like that began rather dramatically, and ended rather dramatically, of which I had absolutely no memory. It was something that really bothered me. So I worried with it for years, and of course a lot of my work in hypnotherapy was helping people recover memories. But the unfortunate thing is, is I'm like not hypnotizable. Kerry: Oh really? Laura: Yeah. Kerry: And did you find that out like early on? Laura: When I trained in hypnotherapy you have the teacher and you have, and you work on each other, you practice on each other. The teacher works on you and practices on you. And I'm really not hypnotizable. So, even trying to deliberately go into like a self hypnotic state, when I'm not concerned about somebody else giving up control to somebody else, even that doesn't work. Because there's this conscious, watching part of my mind. This analytical thing that never, never turns off. So it worried me. And, I thought about it a lot over the years. Kerry: So, how did you get those memories back? Laura: And it became even more of a worry because after Tom French did his article about me in the St. Pete Times back in 2000. Was it 2000? He'd spent five years practically living in our house. Because he thought that what I did was interesting. And we talked about this, and he was curious about it. And that kind of reawakened it. Kerry: I see. Laura: And like, 'What happened, what happened?' And he interviewed members of the family and confirmed my memory. But we never, nobody ever really knew what happened. So it started to worry me. Like in the sense of nagging in my mind. And I asked my husband to go with me to a highly recommended hypnotherapist. I was gonna try again. And I thought, if I can just try and, if my husband is there in the room with me and I can really, really relax, maybe, maybe I can get there and I can do it. So we went and we tried; it didn't work. This woman tried everything, every trick in the book. She was good, she really was good. But you know, I'm sitting there the whole time I'm analyzing her technique. 'I would have drawn that out just a little longer. I would have phrased that slightly differently. Ooh good touch, yes, liked that. I'll have to remember how to use that.' That sort of thing. But then what I started doing was, I started doing pre-sleep work. Which was I would start to really think about it every night before I go to sleep, really get intense. And think about it, and go through everything I could remember, right up to that moment, and then what I could remember, and just like slice by slice. And my husband and I were talking about a lot of things, and I was going through a lot of emotional releases on many things, because I was using my own breathing program, breathing and meditation program, that we'll talk about later. Kerry: And what year was this, would you say? Laura: This was in 1997-98. Kerry: Ok. Laura: So, what happened was I started having very vivid dreams that I thought were related to this. And one night I actually had a dream where I had gone to sleep thinking about everything right up to the point where we arrived at this house, and went inside and got the bottle and the dream continued on with what happened. And, it was like, so intense and so real, that I woke up sobbing, just sobbing uncontrollably. And my husband, 'What is it? What's going?' and I said, 'I remembered, I remembered, I remembered!' Kerry: Yeah. Laura: I'm really convinced that I did remember. But this is one of those things where you have no empirical evidence. You're still depending on a very fallible human mind. The human mind I know as well or better than anyone how fallible it is, how impressionable it can be. So I can tell you what I remembered in this dream, but I cannot tell you that it's a fact. Kerry: Ok. Laura: And I cannot even tell you that I believe it. And this is where you'll find me a little different than most people, because I don't believe anything, I assign probabilities and probabilities can change with the addition of new information. But I would give it greater than 50%, maybe going up towards 65 or 70% probability of being probably what happened. Kerry: Ok, do you wanna share? Laura: Well it's something that I'm sure that other people have talked about these things where you, I remember being in a room, and it seems to me that they were using some kind of drugs like LSD to experiment on me, to put me in and altered state to then try to program me. And the programming was designed to make me repressed, shy, withdrawn what would you say, somebody who doesn't like to make friends or can't make friends? Or is afraid to make friends, or is afraid to speak to other people. Kerry: And this is at the age of like two... Laura: Three, two or three. Kerry: ...three. Yeah, incredible. I mean the fact they start so early is fascinating. But this is where you actually had that, I think you should describe, 'cause we talked earlier about the actual vision that you saw, and the repeated, because that is a programming technique, I believe? Laura: Well, it started out that, first I was in a room, just a bare room with a wooden floor, sitting on a floor. I had been given some toys to play with. I don't even think there was a blanket or anything, I think it was totally bare. And I was sitting there and somebody came in and gave me something and then they said, 'You just wait here and we'll be back.' And so I'm sitting there looking around at the room. And as I was looking around all of a sudden the walls started melting. And I understand that this is a fairly common effect of hallucinogenic substances. And the next thing was I remember being taken into what was like a classroom scene. And I was taken in and in front of the class this, like a woman, took me in and introduced me to a teacher, and the children, and everybody was very friendly and smiling, and like a very happy, new kid at school, totally accepted by everyone. 'Here's your seat.' Everybody friendly, all the children saying all these nice things. Sitting down in my desk, and the little girl next to me says, 'Can we be best friends?' Which is what any little kid wants to hear. And of course to me it was very, it was like wonderful, because my dream at that age was to go to school! Here I am in a real school! and there's other children, and they like me and they accept me. And so lets sit down, and this little girl passes me a note, and the next thing that happens is all these soldiers come exploding into the room with guns firing. And everybody gets blown to bits! I mean just really horrible, I mean with bodies bouncing and flopping around, and brains coming out, and blood and bits of bone, and gore and everything! And it's splattering all over me, and then I'm the only one left standing! Kerry: Incredible. Laura: And it's like, “Ahh!” screaming and crying, and screaming and crying! So then the next scene is me walking in like a park setting. And there's this old man with like a dog or something, and he's sitting on a park bench. He's got some cookies or some, or cake or something. And he invites me to sit down and offers me some, and he's talking to me very, telling me a story or something. And then he gives me, like a piece of paper or something. And the instant he gives it to me all of a sudden the soldiers reappear! And they're blowing him to bits, blowing the dog to bits, blowing maybe people in the park, it seems like, there was like, vague images of other people in the park. Blowing everybody to bits, blood and gore, and bits of bone and so forth, and I'm left standing! I'm the only one left standing! And then the third one that I, the third was we were like standing in lines. And I was in line with a lot of people, and it had kind of like this feeling of concentration camps, sort of thing. Kerry: Oh. Laura: These lines. And it was like we were standing in line to do something or go somewhere. Something bad was supposed to happen. And I knew we had to escape. I knew I had to escape. And there was this little girl. It's like the same little girl that was in the classroom. And she was in the line next to me. And she recognized me, and I saw that she recognized me. And I knew that, she better not say anything to me, because if she does, the soldiers will come and they'll blow everybody away again! So I kept my head down, and I was talking to her like out of the side of my mouth, 'Don't look at me, don't say anything to me. Don't act like you know me. Please don't recognize me, because if you act like you even know me, they'll kill all of us!' And, she just looked at me and smiled and handed me a piece of paper that was supposed to be like a note on it. And the instant she did that, here come the soldiers again, blowing everybody away! And I'm the only one left standing. Kerry: So you had these three consecutive dreams in the same night? Laura: Yeah. Oh it was all one dream. Kerry: I see. And at that point, was that when you woke up? Laura: That's when I woke screaming and crying. Kerry: Incredible. So that, at this point, I mean I understand you have now extrapolated from that dream, or the series of dreams, that, in essence, you were being programmed in a sense to be reclusive, not to share, that if somebody gives you information, or gives you something that you're gonna be, they're gonna die? Laura: Not so much if they give me information but if they attempt to engage me in a friendly way and ask for, because they were asking for help they wanted something from me they wanted my friendship, they wanted me to share with them something, and so basically it was, yeah, last man standing. Kerry: So, so you’re recovering this memory and this is actually not that long ago, I mean, it’s what ten, maybe ten years ago… Laura: Yeah, eleven. Kerry: Yeah, and this basically impacted your entire life. Laura: I’m sure it did. It was totally subconscious, I mean how could something like that not impact your entire life? How could it not make you really, really, paranoid in a sense? Kerry: And slightly antisocial maybe? Laura: Anitsocial, yeah, absolutely. Kerry: And reclusive. And so if you have special gifts, did you, in other words in your investigation of your own self did you reach the conclusion that perhaps you had special gifts and that was the reason you were selected, and that they wanted you to keep those secret or separate in some way? Was that a conclusion you came to? Laura: Well sure, because of the things that have happened other times in my life and the things that happened subsequently, it’s like, what it did was is it drove me to the necessity for being just plain normal vanilla, not standing out, don’t do anything that draws attention to yourself. Because if you do, people are going to get hurt. And that was probably the most profound thing that it did. So I spent many years trying to really dissolve into a normal banal life. Kerry: That’s fascinating, yeah. So you kind of tried to camouflage yourself with a pretty normal life. At what point did your life stop becomingnormal? Laura: When I started meditating. And it’s as I say, that came about because after I had my fourth child I was bedridden and when you have a really active mind like mine, and you’re under this kind of stress, you need to relieve that stress and frustration and of course trying to live a normal life is extremely stressful and frustrating, so everything kind of like came to a head, and here I was bedridden and I decided to learn how to meditate, and I combined some clever hypnotherapy techniques with some standard meditation techniques as I understood them, and started having really extraordinary experiences very, very fast, I mean, you could say that I had your typical shamanic initiatory experiences. Kerry: So, and are you familiar with kundalini, do you feel you awakened your kundalini? Laura: Well, I know what people talk about kundalini, I don’t know if kundalini is exactly what happened, but what I had was a powerful cleansing experience and it, certainly, the way some people describe their 'kundalini' experiences, could have described what happened to me. But I don’t know that’s necessarily, once again that’s one of those things where, where’s the empirical evidence? I don’t believe anything. Kerry: OK. Laura: I had a powerful, powerful experience and it had extraordinary physiological symptoms and it had extraordinary psychological effects, freeing, liberating. I went through this whole period experiencing psycho-kinesis to such an extent that I actually got afraid to go places because I was afraid something was going to break in my presence, windows, electronic objects, glasses, pictures, sometimes I only had to look at something and in fact that still happens now, if I tend to not listen to myself and get to take care of myself and to take care of things, or if there’s something out there that’s threatening, things break, and in fact I’d like to show you the most recent object. Kerry: OK. Laura: I’m going to send somebody to go get it and you’ll have a… Kerry: That’s a good idea. Laura: You’ll have a look at my most recent psycho-kinetic experiences. Kerry: OK, so that’s an amazing... Laura: You see, this is my most recent event. Kerry: I can’t believe it. Laura: This is a cast iron skillet, it was one of my favorites. It belonged to my grandmother, and it wasn’t even hot when I looked at it, it was there and I was… Kerry: Were you upset at the moment? Laura: Well, there were a lot of things that were going on, and there were a lot of things that I needed to get a handle on. Laura: You know, the universe and the subconscious mind is marvelously metaphorical and so this is a message to myself. Kerry: OK. Laura: Which is what most psycho-kinetic activity is by the way. It’s people sending messages to themselves. I mean even a lot of poltergeist type activity, but that’s a whole other topic. Kerry: Well, did it scare you when this happened? Laura: No. Kerry: Was, there had to be a loud noise, right? Laura: Yeah, everybody else was in the room too. Kerry: Really? Laura: Oh, yeah. Anne, you were there weren’t you? Anne: (Offscreen) Uh, no I heard about it right afterwards, I was in the office. Laura: OK. Well, there were four, five people in the kitchen when it happened and we were all just standing there going! And then I turned around and I said “alright who’s pissing me off?” Kerry: Incredible. Well, ok. Have you ever hurt yourself? Laura: No. Kerry: Never. And what about hurting other people? Laura: No. No. Kerry: So it’s just kind of signs… Laura: I send messages to myself, and it’s usually pretty clear what the message is. One of my favorite ones was I have a bust of Edward VII that my grandparents acquired prior to the coronation that never happened because he abdicated to marry Wallace Simpson, and they acquired this as a souvenir and it was something that I acquired when my grandparents died. But anyhow, so I got this bust of Edward VII and he’s sitting up on top of a bookcase and my youngest daughter came in. I was reading a book, and I was reading about Templars and she came in with a piece of gold foil paper and said 'mommy can you cut me out a crown to wear?' and I said sure. I put my book down and I got the scissors and I sat there and cut out a crown and taped it so she could wear this crown on her head. And as soon as I handed it to her, all of a sudden, Edward VII came tumbling off the shelf, broke into pieces, dented my end table and then I turned the page, after all of this was cleaned up and everything, I was very upset about it because there was no ostensible reason for Edward to come tumbling off the shelf, but then I turned the page and there was, in the book that I was reading, they were reciting the old nursery rhyme about Jack and Jill went up the hill and how this had come about as a, it had described certain, some royal battles or something, Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water, and Jack fell down and broke his crown. And here I had just made a crown, Edward VII who never was crowned, fell off the shelf and I turned the page and read about Jack breaking his crown. So I never figured out what the message of that one was but that was one of those really weird things that just happens to me. Kerry: Well, are you familiar with your prior lives? Laura: Most of them, yeah. Kerry: Ok. And do you think that you were a king at any point? Laura: No. Kerry: You don’t? Laura: No, no I don’t think it would have anything to do with that. Oh god, I wouldn’t wanna be a king. No but in my immediate past life I was just a German housewife in Nazi Germany married to a Jew and the Nazis came and took my husband, and my children and I committed suicide. So I did fall down and break my crown. Kerry: Oh, I see. Laura: I jumped out a window. Kerry: Ok. At what point did you get into contact with the… C’s I should call them, with the Cassiopaens? Laura: Well, I think it actually began at that time, in 1985 because what I was doing was I was doing this int... when you’re laid up in bed, sometimes you meditate twice, three times a day just to keep your stress level down, and the thing is I went at it just for stress relief, I mean, that was what I was after. Kerry: So, you weren’t seeking enlightenment, per se? Laura: No. I mean, the technique that I designed was designed for stress relief. I had no idea it was gonna do what it did. Kerry: OK. So at that point when you say you contacted the C’s, I mean in other words, because I understand that you work with a ouija board? And there’s a group, actually, that you work with and I want you to describe all of that, but how did you get to that point, if you started with the meditation? Laura: Well, what happened was that when I wasn’t meditating during this period, I was reading. And I subscribed to a library by mail service, and I would read these books and, because this is where that whole religion thing came in, because I decided this is the time to read about those things that are in my mind that I’m curious about because I’m curious about this issue of good and evil, and the end of the world and little eschatological ideas, because these are things, because I always had dreams when I was young about the end of the world. Kerry: Hmm. Ok. Laura: And these were recurrent dreams. Or as what I perceived or understood or explained to myself as the end of the world. Whether it was actually the end of the world, I don’t know, but there was some pretty troubling and repetitious things. Kerry: So you saw, I’m assuming, cataclysms of some kind? Laura: Oh, yeah. Kerry: Did you have like water, tsunamis, that sort of thing? Laura: Cataclysms, smoke, fire, scorched earth, cracked earth, dinosaur type creatures striding around, reptilian looking creatures, serpents slithering everywhere. I mean it was some pretty creepy stuff for a, a young kid who’d never been exposed to today’s form of horror flicks to be seeing in their dreams, I mean I was never exposed to movie, a book, a photograph, an image of any kind that would ever put that kind of thought in my mind at that age. I was growing up in the 50’s, come on, that stuff wasn’t available. Laura: So those things back when I was twenty one, or twenty two, I remember having some more of these dreams, and I told one of my girlfriends we were driving down the road, I said you know things are going to get very, very bad on this planet. I have the feeling things, by the time I’m 50 years old, things are gonna be very, very bad. Laura: I just feel there’s just something inside me that says, well you know, you kinda brush that stuff off, it’s just stuff you think or say when you’re young and impressionable. Kerry: So fast forward, you’re meditating, you think you’re having some contact with the C’s, but how does that manifest? Laura: Well, I was reading these books, and I was reading, what happened was I read Immanuel Velikovsky’s 'Worlds In Collision' because I’d read an article about eschatological scenarios and it mentioned Velikovsky and I said, 'Oh I gotta get this book.' And finding his book was a little hard but I actually went to the library in town at some point, and found a copy of it, on their selling off their books that they were taking off the shelves, for 25 cents. But anyway, I got a copy of it, and I read it, and I was reading this stuff, and it like, opened a whole new view of the bible to me. ‘Cause as I said, I was raised in a very religious family, and I had read the bible, you know, completely through, cover to cover several times and this was a whole different way of looking at the bible than the faith based way. Although, actually, Velikovsky was writing from a kind of faith based perspective. It’s just that it was a Jewish one not a Christian one. His belief was that the Exodus really happened so he was interpreting these things as the events of the Exodus. But I think they were much older stories that were later conflated with still other stories to create an Exodus story because the Exodus, as described in the bible, never happened. But anyway, so I would be sitting there and I would read of something that he had written and I’d stop and I would look up and think to myself “wow is that possible?” And as soon I would say this in my own head all of this information would begin to flow and it would be like my own thoughts. Like, yes or no, is it possible, consider this da da da da da and it would be just reorganizing all the material that was in my brain from years and years and years of reading a book a day that was being sorted, reorganized in my brain and spit back in response to my question. You know, the brain’s like a computer, who knows what it can do, it’s amazing. Kerry: Absolutely. But was there information that also you hadn’t maybe studied, new information that came in? Laura: Yes… and there were ways of putting things together that were totally unique. And the funny thing about it was that I would start to write this down and here’s where it got really weird, because I would start to write things down and I would write things that I didn’t know what was coming. Kerry: What do you mean? Laura: I would have asked this question in my mind like is it possible for the sun to do this, here their describing the temperature in the corona, the temperature of the surface of the sun, the temperature of the interior of the sun, something is wrong with the way these numbers are adding up. What is the reason for this? And I would start writing things and they were like, I never heard of them before and I didn’t know, because when you’re talking or when you’re writing, you’re writing a letter, dear so and so I’m writing to inform you that I’ll be coming to visit you on Tuesday of next... You’ve got on your mind what you’re going to put in this letter. Kerry: Right. Laura: You know what you’re going to say and it’s just a question of putting it down. That's different from writing when you don’t know what’s coming which is kind of a unique thing. And then I would say well I have to go take care of the children or I have to go cook dinner or something or I have to go do this or that whatever, so I would put it down and it would like stop. But it would be like it was backing up in my head. And it would back up to the point where I felt like it was pressure, like I was having a headache, just like a headache. And I would say 'I’ve gotta go' because some parts of it would leak out, like words, like wait a minute, and it just seemed like I was just thinking. Ok, now I’m supposed to be cooking here, but I’m really thinking about the relationship between the magnetism of this planet to that planet and the solar radiation and gravity and planetary distances and blah blah blah and what do you think if that happened. and I was thinking about these things and they would leak out of my head. Kerry: So, at some point you would have to go and write? Laura: So I had to stop and go and write it down. And I have boxes full of this material. Kerry: Fascinating. Laura: So... Kerry: So, how did you make the transition then from doing that? Laura: The problem was I didn’t trust it as channeling. Kerry: Ok. So, at this point we are at where you are putting two and two together, you’ve meditated, you’ve got contact in essence with the C’s, although you don’t actually know it’s the C’s. Laura: Well, you have to understand that during these meditative experiences or during meditation I would tend to, some people call it samadi when you’re just gone, and you’re gone for extended periods of time. So, I guess if that’s what you want to call it, that’s what was happening and I would be gone for extended periods of time and what was going on inside my head was not something that was foreign or different, it was essentially myself in the future, a wider scope of consciousness. So when people talk about the C’s, what always entertains me because they’re saying Oh 'I’m in touch with the C’s', and I’m thinking, Well, I don’t remember talking to you lately. It’s basically as they have said and it has proven to be through the years, it’s just a really highly, expanded state of consciousness that expands into the future and the past and laterally I suppose, because if you’re members of a soul group, certainly there would be other individuals on the planet who might be part of the C’s 'soul group.' So, it’s not a singular thing, but I would say it’s not all inclusive of all of humanity either. Kerry: And that makes sense. Laura: It never was an intrusive thing. It never felt like anything other than the action of my own brain working through a problem. And in fact there’ve been many times where I was like in school where I would be working, like for example, on mathematics and when you work very hard on a math problem, how you feel this pressure right here, you’ve got stuff going on in this forward part of your brain and that’s, in a sense, how it felt. It felt like my brain was applying something like sheer brute thinking power on a problem, sorting it out, that’s how it felt. So maybe that’s what it is. Kerry: OK. So at that point though, I’m just putting myself back to where you were at that point because you went from that place to actually using a ouija board and I’d like you to just describe that process. Laura: Well there was a lot of water over the dam and under the bridge between then and then, because 1985 there was a good 7 more years of studying and researching a lot of things before I began the experiment that led to that other form of communication with the C’s. There was a lot of experimentation in many things, hypnotherapy, I was doing exorcisms, a lot of studying, a lot of research trying to find out what was... and of course, I became kind of obsessed with the material that had come through my own head, and I wrote it down. I wrote this manuscript that I called 'The Noah Syndrome' because everything kind of focused on the idea of what formulated in my brain of quantum metamorphosis on a macrocosmic scale. Because it seemed to me that this was the central idea of the eschatological thesis. And I began to research to see if this was actually something that was possible. And I did a lot of studying and reading in quantum physics and certainly not as a professional in any respect and, following up all the trails and all the clues that I put together in this manuscript to see if any of it was even remotely possible because the scenario that presented itself in these thoughts, shall we call them, that I was having were pretty horrendous, which was yes the planet does transform. But a transformation of the planet is essentially, to us at our level, a cataclysmic event, because say if an atom goes through a quantum leap transformation, or acquires electrons or loses electrons or whatever, changes from one state to another or maybe from one element to another by the acquisition or the losing of some particle or some part of it. At that level, it’s got to be cataclysmic for that atom. And if you think of the solar system as a giant atom, and I know that’s frowned on by certain mainstream scientific thinking, but I still think that it’s a useful metaphor, but if you’re thinking about a solar system going through a quantum transformation to become something else, alchemically speaking, it’s gonna be cataclysmic. It can’t be otherwise. And cataclysm on that level does not bode well for humanity. And I began to think that this is what these dreams, these things that I’d seen, that they were pointing to this cataclysmic transformation. So, of course, if you’re thinking about a cataclysmic transformation of your world, the first thing you’re going to think about is, oh my god, where is Noah and the Ark when you need him? And that concept of Noah and his Ark captured my attention because all of these stories of former cataclysms that you could possibly relate to transformations in the state of the world such as the “Fall from Eden.” Other transformations were undoubtedly cataclysmic and if you read the science, study the geology, the archeology, the paleontology, you realize that these cataclysms have occurred repeatedly on this planet. And we don’t know with each one of these cataclysms what life was like for the beings that occupied the planet. For example, a solar system that exists in a different cosmic ray environment could be very different from the solar system of the Earth or reality as we experience it now. Kerry: Ok, let me ask you this though, at this point, because we’re kind of following a chronology here, you’re going through an experience your mind is opening up to all these aspects and your thinking about them and obviosly you’re now encountering, like you’re putting two and two together and you’re getting the notion of a cataclysm and something coming on in the future of the world. You’re looking at, I don’t know, are you concentrating on 2012 at all, or are you just looking all over the place? Laura: Well I wasn’t, at this point, come on this is 1985? 1986, was anybody really talking about 2012 then, I mean maybe a few fringe people. But nobody was talking about it. Kerry: OK. Laura: So what I was concerned with was the concept of Noah and the Ark because all of the stories talk about a fall from Eden or a fall from a higher state, that humanity was once in a different state of existence and that he fell, and this was undoubtedly basically a description of a cataclysm, a global cataclysm. Kerry: But you, at that point were you aware of ET’s for example? Laura: Absolutely not. Kerry: OK. Laura: I mean… Kerry: But, is this... Laura: I was a good Christian girl, what do you think you’re saying? Kerry: Ok, that’s fair. How did you get, you're also talking about this is when you said you started meditating right? You’re having all these experiences, you’re gonna make a transition. You’re actually saying it took 7 years to make the transition to using the board from that? So you’re still getting information from those 7 years and did that continue? In other words, you were writing down, you're saying you have records? Laura: Yeah. Kerry: But you didn’t trust it? Laura: Well it’s not that, the problem was that I didn’t really realize what I was doing, because I thought that, ok that’s just happening in my head, I’m just thinking. I wanna know more than what I can just think of. Kerry: Ok. Kerry: Ok. So you didn’t think you were channeling, is that what you’re saying? Laura: No. No, of course not. Kerry: So had you read any channeling at that point or anything? Laura: At that point, no. I’d read Edgar Casey, I think I’d read a lot about these things. Kerry: Had you read the Ra material, for example? Laura: Oh, no. Not until way later. Kerry: Ok. Laura: It was probably somewhere along, in the very late 80’s very early 90’s, probably ’89, ’90 that I started really reading channeled material because I wanted to know if anybody else was thinking the samethings that I was thinking. You know, about this macrocosmic quantum transformation, basically an alchemical event, you know? Kerry: But you’re also married to an expert on hyperdimentional physicist? Laura: I wasn’t married to him then. Kerry: OK, so when did that happen? Laura: Well that, well he came after the C’s, but anyway. Kerry: Oh, I see. The funny thing was, as I was doing all of this, in a sense, it was destroying my marriage. Because you can’t be a good Christian girl, and I was already stretching being a good Christian girl by being involved in doing hypnotherapy and some of the other things that I was reading and studying about. I was really pushing the boundaries on that and I didn’t talk about that in my Christian environment. So when you start little by little divesting yourself of all of the things that once held big places in your life and the other partner doesn't want to go there and you realize I have, I can't deny my brain, my mind. I can't deny my questions, I can't deny the fact that I must... And his solution was 'If you want an answer it's in the bible.' 'If it's not in the bible it's satanic.' I couldn't live with that and I tried to open his mind but he was too afraid. But anyhow years went by and I continued to study and research, study and research, study and research. I mean, god you have no idea the books I went through. You've seen my library. I've read nearly all of them. You've seen the ones that are stored upstairs. That's my current reading list, and then there's all the library books that I had to return. Kerry: Yeah, absolutely. Laura: So it's a lot of material that I've gone through and so I didn't think I was channeling, no. Kerry: Ok so how did you make the leap to the board? Was that just one of your trials and errors? Laura: Well I've really talked about that. These books are going to fall down here, but let me show you. In 'Amazing Grace' I go into extreme detail. This is no longer available by the way. I'm going to try to put it back up on the internet so people can read it for free but... Kerry: That would be great. Laura: I went into extreme detail of all the thinking that I went through when I selected the board. And I just want to say this for, wackos out there that think that a ouija board has some power to demonically possess you. The ouija board has no power whatsoever. It is a tool. It is a tool, purely and simply. If anything wierd comes around or manifests in your life as a result of interacting with a board type instument, it's because it's already there, it's just covert. All you have done with your board is flush it out and come face to face with it. And I would much rather come face to face with anything that's hanging around my environment and be able to deal with it then to have it continuosly, subtley or constantly influencing me from behind the scenes. See? But that's been my experience and my observation with a lot of people who... and come on it's one of the finest instruments for psychic and spiritual development that was ever invented. I mean, what's his name? Pythagoras used it, the ancient chinese used it. And we still speak of Pythagoras with tremendous respect for his mathematics, for his Pythagoran theorem and that sort of thing, and the guy was using something that was very similiar to a pointing device that you touch and points out letters or numbers or whatever. Kerry: Absolutely Laura: The finest, the finest channeled material in existence either began with or came entirely through a board type instrument. The stuff that they called channelling nowadays where somebody sits down and puts a tin foil pyramid on their head and starts talking to a lord whoever in their spaceship, that's trash. It's garbage. Read the history. Read the precedings of the Society For Psychical Research. Read some of the experiments they did. The whole research into real paranormal phenomena was completely sidetracked by the scientific establishment at the end of the 19th century, beginning of the 20th century, when these societies where trying to get real scientists working on this. Laura: They moved in and they destroyed it, and what has come and filled the gap? Quacks! Quacks and people who do not know the history and do not know the instruments and do not know what they are doing. If you do not know... I mean it's like my husband with a physicist. Some hotshot physicist comes along, a mathematician says 'Oh, I had this great idea bla bla bla' and he writes his paper and then he publishes it and he comes to find out that somebody thought of it 100 years ago and their are 10 papers written on the same topic. He's not reading other people's work first. He thinks he's invented the wheel. All these people they think they've invented the wheel. There is tons of good channeled material out there. Excellent channeled material but very little of it has been produced since 1915! Kerry: Ok Laura: Sorry Kerry: Ok, well I'm sure you've done your history in that area? Laura: Oh yeah. Kerry: And I'd love to find out what you would consider to be the good channeled material. For example are you saying the Ra Material, do you consider that... Laura: Ra Material is an exception. That was research. It was experimental research. It was undertaken under controlled circumstances. It was a group effort. It was not just somebody sitting down one day and having their free will violated. Oh! This is another one. This drives me nuts. People who say there is a difference between channeling and being a medium. The medium goes into a trance and her control comes in and lets you talk to the dead people and so on. And then there saying 'Ok, that's one thing but that's different from channeling because when you channel, a space alien just downloads it.' I mean tell me, downloads into you and speaks through you, tell me how that is different from your control coming in and using your physical sensorium, using your mouth, your eyes, your whatever, to communicate? Kerry: Ok, so for example can you name some of the channels out there that in the past or even current ones like I think his name is 'Bashar'? Laura: I would rather not do that, if you don't mind? Kerry: Ok, that's absolutely fine. Laura: I mean, it's easy to... Kerry: How about the past? Would you go into the past? Laura: Allen Kardec. The Patience Worth Material. Those are fantastic works. The Ra Material, certainly. The work of Jane Roberts, the Seth Material. She began with a board. It is a way to develop your own internal communication. Kerry: Yes. Laura: And of course even with the Seth Material, Seth says 'I am an alternate of yourself'. Kerry: At this point you actually started working with the board, I'm assuming. Did you work by yourself? Laura: Ok, I came up with the idea first of all that, to think that, I mean when you read the history of the paranormal, so to speak, you realize that some of these people who really did some fantastic work, I mean amazing work, that enormous stresses were put on their bodies. There is the whole gang of the Sceptics Society that try to tear apart some of these wonderful cases. I think Debra Bloom wrote a wonderful book called 'The Ghost Hunters'. There is also another one out called Daniel Dunglass Home called the 'The First Psyhic'. Highly recommended books. If you really want to know some, I mean truly extraodinary paranormal phenomena going on read Conan Doyle's history of the paranormal where he gives extraordinary analysis of the Fox sisters. In the introduction of the so called channeling contact phenomena. So it's clear that it put extraordinary stresses on these people, on there lives pscyhologically. In some cases on their physical bodies. I mean some of the great mediums of the past were known to lose up to 15 pounds in a single sitting. I mean that's a lot of weight to lose. And then there were these wonderful mediums that would produce ectoplasm. And Sceptics Society just back off. I'm saying I don't believe things but let me tell you, the testimony, the photographs, the witnesses. I am 99% convinced all of these things happened and they happened as they were described by these really extraordinary witnesses so just leave me alone. Don't even talk to me. So there was fantastic work being done. Fantastic material, and I wanted to study this before I did anything. I had read all of the stuff that was published as channeled material up to the point of the early 90's, and I thought this is like word salad. I call it 'salad shooter channeling'. We'll have a salad chhhh(noise of salad shooter). And it had no depth, it had no meaning, it was all platitudinous. It was like intonations of love and light. And we can clearly see that what these channels are saying, what these entities, whatever they are, has no practical application in our real lives. I mean sure some people say 'Oh, you just have to love and you just have to do this...' I mean just give me a break. Laura: So I was reading the history. I wanted to know... and I saw that there were people who had done fantastic things, because, if you want to channel and say 'I am Lord High Poohbah of the Intergalactic Command and I want to tell you all this stuff' and you say all this wonderful stuff. Fine! Who can prove and disprove it? Kerry: I see. Laura: The work that was being done by these experimenters in those days, they were seeking to validate what they were doing. They were doing what was called 'cross corespondence experiments' where they were having experiments that were taking place on two sides of the Atlantic. And this was at a time when there was no communicators, no instant communication. So sometimes it took weeks for the results of the timed experiments to be brought together to know that everything had happened in a certain way and some of it was amazing. They were actually working on something that was worthwhile. What good are you doing anybody if you are just channeling, I mean I just love the ones that say 'Oh well, there was supposed to be an asteroid that hit the planet but thanks to the kind officers of the Lord High Council of the Galactic Federation, we diverted the asteroid from the planet and saved Earth.' Ok, first of all nobody new anything about said asteroid except that they predicted it so you have only their word, and then, since it didn't happen you only have their word that they diverted it. I mean we are talking about, it's like Jehova of the bible. I am the only God you shall have no other gods before me and the reason that you're supossed to believe this is because I say so. Kerry: That's right. Laura: Excuse me? Kerry: Ok, so at this point you want to work with the board, and you must have... Laura: I hadn't decided to work with the board at that point. I went through all the material and it was because of the historical material that I determined that the board is the way to begin. It is the way to really begin because there is a lot of work to be done to channel. You can't just sit down one day and talk. Oh you can talk to dead dudes. Anybody can talk to dead dudes. Kerry: Right. Laura: It's like Casey said 'A dead Presbyterian is just that, a dead Presbyterian.' You know he's no better or no worse than any other dead. I don't want to talk to dead dudes. I talked to plenty of dead dudes. I did spirit release for years. I've never yet encountered anybody who I put under hypnosis who didn't have spirit attachments. Kerry: Ok, so you had an incredible background when you actually sat down at the board with, what? One other person or where there more than one? Laura: Well, usually there was one or two others and I was changing them because I was experimenting to see, I was trying to get the right energy mix. And I had one person who was, actually the reason he was there for most of the sessions or nearly all of the sessions is because he simply was the only one who showed up that regularly. You know other people came and went. People would get bored they weren't getting what they wanted. They didn't immediately get, they didn't get their lottery numbers, they didn't get there predictions for the horse races or whatever, and I did a lot of experimenting with that to see what kind of possibilities there were. Kerry: Ok. Laura: And then I found out that some of these people who were coming and using this... because I was doing it because I wanted to write these things down and then check. I wasn't playing these numbers. I was just checking any kind of, prophecy is supposed to be part of channeling right? It didn't occur to me that most prophecy is B.S. because either it's been created by the ones prophesying, their making the prophecy come true to give themselves validation. You know because the universe really is open. And then there's some things that the probabilities narrow as you get closer to the event. There are those things. But no I had the idea that this is what I wanted to do and I knew I needed somebody else to do it with me. And I wanted to find somebody whose energy was just right. And that's what we did. And we sat and we went through loop after loop after loop after loop of, I mean you talk to lots of dead dudes when you are using a ouija board, I mean believe me you do. But for me having the experience that I had with spirit release therapy, with exorcism, it was easy for me to use the board itself as a medium of exorcism, because here you, instead of having a person under hypnosis, who you communicate with their attached entities through them. You say to the person under hypnosis, 'Ok you've got your attached entity, would you ask them when they came?' And then they ask them mentally, and then they hear the answer and then they repeat it back to me, so you're getting things and you're having this conversation with somebody under hypnosis. 'Ok will you ask your attached entity what his name is?' 'Well his name is John.' 'When did John come?' '1945'. And they're having to stop and ask the entity and of course you don't really know, I'm just telling you how the technique is done. Kerry: Right. You don't know if it's true or not I just know the therapy really works. So here with a board you've eliminated having to use somebody under hypnosis as your medium for talking to this dead dude. And you can talk to dead dudes more or less dirctly. Kerry: So assuming you did that, ok, and you began to also get feedback. Did you for example, did you find that you were getting, I don't know, a lot of negativity using the board in the initial phases? Laura: No. Kerry: No, Ok. Laura: No. We talked to a lot of dead dudes but I knew what to do with them. If you get some creepy little dead guy that comes along and says 'Hi, I'm a dead hippy. Peace, love, yeah, far out!' and we had them. Kerry: And the other thing that you would of been on the lookout for, obviously, is platitudes, which you know these people... Laura: Platitudes. Allen would you go get the board notes I'd like to show these to Kerry. Kerry: Ok. Laura: I have board notes. Allen: All of them? Laura: The whole stack yes. One of them is up in my office but don't worry about it, it's just a thin one. Laura: We kept notes this was, because this was in the nature of an experiment. Kerry: Yes Laura: I wanted to record... Kerry: You were doing the scientific method basically. Laura: Every motion of that board. Everything it said. And I did that for two solid years sometimes twice a week and I... Kerry: I'm assuming your hands are at least on one side of this. Laura: Usually three fingers. Usually I have three fingers on it. Kerry: So you're touching it. I was just wondering, and then you get another person to touch it? Laura: Yeah. Kerry: Do you have more than two people or not? Laura: Well, at least two, sometimes three or four. Kerry: Ok. Laura: You know there are many times, well for the longest time we had three. Three was really good it was a good number. At the time because the third person kind of balanced out this other person that was there whose energy was a little on the negative side maybe. He was a fantastic psychic. Amazing psychic. Kerry: This is something you found out subsequent? Laura: Yeah, but that's all recounted in my Wave Series. Kerry: Ok, well that would also be fascinating for people to read. Laura: So, yeah, usually we had at least 2, 3 and changed from time to time. Kerry: I am curious whether that, because you spent years before you actually got to the board and you had material of your own that you, in many ways, was saying that it was coming from your own mind but at the same time your saying that it contained information that wasn't like you were writing and you didn't have it in your mind prior to writing. Laura: It wasn't in my conscious mind. Kerry: Ok. So when you got the board and when you, maybe, lets assume that at some point you contacted the C's, or even before then did you ever see parallels in what you had gotten prior to that showing up? Laura: Only after the C's. Kerry: Only after the C's. Laura: In a sense it's kind of like creating a grooving, a circuit that goes directly from my higher consciousness to my arm. In a sense it's kind of like automatic writting. Kerry: But it's also like tuning in a radio. What you were doing maybe over the years was fine tuning a radio... Laura: It's tuning in a radio. Allen: This is what we have from the podcast room. Laura: This is what we have but there's more of it. This is just a sample of what I call my board notes. Kerry: Ok Laura: Every single movement. Kerry: Ok, yup. So you must of had an extra person here writing, taking notes and so on. Laura: Yeah. Kerry: Did you record the sessions as well. Laura: We didn't record them until well after the C's were, I mean we didn't have recordings of some of the earlier C's sessions because recordings was expensive. We were trying to keep notes. Kerry: And this, again lets, what year are we in? Laura: We're in 1992, 1991, 92, 93. Kerry: So you've been in contact with the C's since 93? Laura: Since 94. July 94. Kerry: 94. Wow, that's incredible. Laura: July 16. Kerry: Ok and this is 2010 so that's a long time. Laura: Yeah. Kerry: And so you've able to also validate a lot of what they're telling you? Laura: Oh lord, this is, I mean, come on, I read the historical channeled material. I've read modern day channeled material. I have an entire bookcase in there that has nothing but modern day channeled books from, oh, probably the last 15, 20 years, and the C's are very spare. They are not verbose. Kerry: Yes, I've noticed that. Laura: But they're, what they say is so loaded and so damn accurate. Sometimes they are spectacularly or apparently spectacularly wrong or off on something. And then you find out later they were right. I mean one of the things that really got me was we had one session one night and one of my girlfriends was present, and we asked about something and they announced that there had been cometary bombardments over Europe during the time of the origins of the King Arthur legends. And at this point there was a group of people working on this, I think they were archeologists or geologists or somebody who were working on this theory. They were writing scientific papers on it but they hadn't been published yet. It had not come to the attention of the general public. So the information was out there in the biosphere somewhere but nobody else knew about it. So for them to say it was not like, it even gave the year, and then to find this in a scientific paper like four or five years later when it finally got published, is just like one of those amazing things. And then things about biology, things about ancient history and, of course, the biggest things have been their predictions about what our world was going to be like in the future. Now remember this is back in 1994, pre 9-11 and they described what was coming, how it was going to play out. I mean they didn't say 'Oh there's going to be 9-11 on 9-11 and this is how it's going to...' but they gave enough hints and enough... you know part of the problem is we didn't ask the right questions too. But they did in many cases voluntarily give clues and hints to information that their was a government conspiracy that was underway that was going to change our world. And that it was going to be a huge, huge, huge, huge thing, and they even said that big big, big, big, big, with multiple exclamation marks. They do their own punctuation. So their whole description of our reality, past things, things that we have been able to verify, things about ancient languages, things about DNA, and we tried to research, to verify, and I know most channels 'Oh, well it's channeled you don't have to research it.' Well I'm sorry, I'm going to research it and I'm going to try to validate it if I can because this is an experiment. This is not somebody talking to God here. Forget about that. Kerry: There's also something that they do repeatedly which is say that they won't answer a certain question because they won't interfere with free will and there's certain indications that come through and maybe you could talk a little bit about that. In terms of the positive and non-interfering level and non-controlling aspect of the channel itself. Laura: Yeah, this is something that's frustrating for some people because they want somebody to underwrite their experience on Earth, they want insurance that everything is just so. And the C's are basically saying this is a school and you are here to learn and you can learn things by doing a little studying and having a study guide and Cliff notes but there are many things you really have to experience. And then of course we all know, and that I'm sure everybody has had the experience where as a young person somebody told you 'Oh, you'll understand that when you are older.' And you were thinking at the time 'I know. What are you talking about? That's, I know, I understand perfectly.' And then a few years go by, you have some experiences, and 'Oh my God that's what they meant. Now I understand.' How many things are like that in our lives where we can't really understand until we have a certain experience and when we've had the experience you understand in a way that no amount of anybody telling you will make you understand. And then, of course, there's an old legend about a magic alligator skin or something that everytime you made a wish the skin got smaller and smaller. And getting your answers handed to you on a plate makes the skin get smaller and smaller and then, and the skin kind of like represents something of you because whenever you don't do your own work it's like being carried. It's like a child. Kerry: You don't develop the muscles. Laura: You do not develop, you do not learn how to walk, you don't learn how to think. And the C's have said repeatedly 'We are here to teach you to use your most valuable asset, your mind.' And to use it well and to use it in the way it was intended to be used. Not as something to run programs that are put into you by your family, your society, your religion, your politics, or your belief system. Beliefs, we don't deal in beliefs. We're trying to learn how to use our minds without believing. Believing is a cheap thing to do with the human brain. The human brain is a marvelous, marvelous instrument and it is at the disposal of this higher essential being that you are. A mind that interfaces with our reality through this brain. You know have some respect. Don't ask to have everything handed to you. And, I mean, somebody asked me once, 'What is the most important thing I've learned from the C's?' And I thought well the most important thing I've learned is that I don't have to ask them everything anymore. I can think things through on my own. I can figure things out on my own. They have taught me how to think. They have deprogrammed me from my illusions. Some of that was very difficult. I had illusions like everybody else. I believed they whole love and light and just think nice thoughts and nothing bad will ever happen to you. Well the controllers of this world, the powers that be, the hyperdimensional denizens that have designs on your future and your energy, would love for you to believe that. Just think nice thoughts. Well I’m telling you there’s an old Indian story about that, about the mahut and the elephant. The master is telling his disciples, 'Everything is God, God is in everything. It’s all God, just become one with everything and one with God.' So they go out for a walk in the forest. The master and his disciples, and along comes an elephant handler, he’s running and screaming madly, 'there’s a mad elephant on the rampage, mad elephant, get out of the way!' So the master and most of his disciples run and climb trees and this one thinks 'Well, the elephant wont harm me because all I have to do is remember the elephant is one with God, and I am one with God.' So he stands there being one with God and the elephant tramples him, so he’s laying there smashed in the path, and the master comes to him and he says 'Why didn’t you get out of the way?', and he says 'I was being one with God, and one with the elephant', and he says 'Well the elephant handler, who was one with God, was telling you to get out of the way!' Kerry: Right, absolutely. Laura: So God has many faces, not all of them pleasant to behold. Kerry: Absolutely, and that’s very wise. What I would love is to find out, or actually have you talk about what the C’s are talking about now and what they are saying about the future, and what if anything they are saying about 2012? Laura: Well, the C’s led us through a whole learning process where we learned a great deal about pathology and humanity. We had to actually go through certain experiences before some of the things they said to us could even be taken on board. For example, one of the things that they say is that there are human looking beings who do not have souls as we understand them, as individuated souls, that they are basically animated by the equivalent of an animal soul that goes back into a soul pool when the body dies. This of course really explains one of the problems that's plagued human beings for millennia. There are people who are really convinced they have a soul and people who declare that it does not exist. Well, what if they’re both right? What if the people who really know that they have a soul and really believe in the existence of the soul are those who have one. And those who simply cannot ever, under any circumstances, conceive of such a thing, or believe in such a thing, or see evidence for such a thing, or have experiences of consciousness that is not directly connected to a physical body, maybe they’re telling the truth. And this is a really big conflict among human beings. So there is a form of this aberration, you can’t even call it an aberration because if that’s what is existing on the planet, if there are souled beings and non-souled beings, that’s just what is. But there is a defective version of the non-souled being which is what we have come to know as the psychopath. Our definition of psychopath is really specific, it’s a genetic thing. You’re born that way. It’s not something that you acquire or get, and it’s also not something that necessarily anybody can see from outside behaviours. You may have to interact with an individual for a very long period of time before you come to realise that they have no conscience and that they simply will do everything they do to further their own ends and that nobody and no thing else ever turns them from what they want to do, their immediate gratification. I’m sure everyone has had somebody like that in their life and in their experience but the bad thing about it is that these kinds of people tend, because of their nature, to rise into positions of power also. Just as there are the ordinary garden variety sorts that just live out their lives as parasites on other people. So that was the first thing that we had to learn about. Kerry: Right, and those kinds of people actually tend to mirror behaviour that they intuit, or they realise that you want to see and then they mirror that back and so, of course, those people rise up through the ranks because if an authority figure gets ‘yes’ all the time, and gets what they want, the kind of behaviour they want in a person working for them they’re going to promote that person. Laura: It’s not just a question of mirroring, because they’re great mimics in mirrors, of course, but the bigger problem, actually, is the fact that psychopaths took over religion like thousands of years ago and they began to structure religion so that it would create belief systems that would service their agenda. It’s our understanding that these soulless beings, and psychopaths themselves are the instruments of hyperdimensional beings, ie. Paranormal ie. Alien. Now, if you study the works of John Keel, and I know his book 'Operation Trojan Horse' is a little hard to get, but anybody who is interested in the subject of UFO’s or aliens really, really needs to read this book because aliens, so called aliens, are not a new thing. They are not aliens from outer space, although I’m not excluding the possibility of extraterrestrials, but the UFO/alien phenomenon by and large is a paranormal phenomenon. And if you understand that there are soulless beings in charge of the governments, in charge of religions, in charge of academia, in positions of power, judges, lawyers, doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, schoolteachers, they have moved in and taken over these positions that you would be living in a world that is pretty much focused on a materialist way of life. Even if you think about it they use religion to create a belief in some resurrection of the dead at the end of time where all the saved people are going to be resurrected to have a physical body. So this actually is a materialist view of the world. Even if you say you’re believing in God, who’s supposed to be a spirit, or you’re believing in Jesus or whoever, it still is... Kerry: There’s an apparent contradiction, also, in going to Heaven even as certain forms of Muslim believe, in other words that you’re going to be... Laura: Yeah, and of course the Jewish religion believes that there’s going to an earthly kingdom, the Jewish messiah ruling over the entire world on Earth. So, you’ve got just variations of the same materialistically created and propagated belief systems, so... Kerry: But you’re also, I mean when you say in terms of you’ve got non-physical beings, hyperdimensional beings, you’re also talking about going cross-dimensional. So it can be termed outer space because it’s space, going through space and different planets, and ET’s from different planets can be other dimensional. Laura: Oh, absolutely. I mean, early in our sessions with the C’s, we were really taken with the idea of maybe communicating with some aliens. Everybody else was doing it, we want to communicate with some aliens too. So it’s like “Are you alien?”, we ask the question “Are you alien?” And they said “From your perspective”. Of course people immediately jumped on that saying “oh, they’re aliens!” and then later on when they came back and said “we are you in the future, we are you in the future, we are you in the future.” People couldn’t forget that they had said that we are alien from your perspective, but that wasn’t exactly what they’d said. Kerry: But at the end they also say that they were Pleiadians right? And they were a different being in essence depending on... Laura: If you read that particular passage and you understand that they’re talking about, that these are different information sources that may not necessarily have anything to do with an actual extraterrestrial being as in something or somebody from another planet. Although, other planets, other star systems, we don’t know that what we see is exactly how things are. We have scientists and they have instruments, and they have telescopes and they say “Oh, this galaxy is umpteen zillion lights years away”. Well, maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, maybe that’s just a matter of our perception. Just like time is a matter of our perception. Maybe it’s really right next door but the dimensional differences are perceived by us as spatial differences. We may say it’s billions of light years away and it’s really in other dimension. Kerry: Exactly. And that’s the same premise with, for example, Venus appearing to be an uninhabitable planet when in reality it may actually be inhabited in a different dimension. And so we’re looking at that through a telescope seeing a certain dimension. Laura: That’s entirely possible because as anybody who’s looked at the matter knows, Venus is hotter than Hell, I mean if there is a Hell that’s where it is. I mean 900 degrees, acid rain falling 24 hours a day, they don’t have 24 hour days but you know what I mean. I would say it could definitely be that our perception of it, from our state of being, we perceive it as 900 degrees and hotter than Hell and maybe in another dimension or density. And the C’s make a distinction between dimensions and densities: Dimensions are lateral and infinite, and densities are vertical and only seven. Density refers as much to state of awareness, because obviously if you’re in a higher density you’re more aware of the multiple dimensions on the density below you. As you go up this increases because we as human beings are extraordinarily aware of many creatures inhabiting the animal kingdom and the world around us, the natural world and so forth. So we are aware many dimensions below us, and we’d have to say that these higher dimensional or higher density beings have the same perspective on us, that we have on, and that’s kind of a scary thought especially if you realise that they may not have your best interests at heart, and just as a farmer has a lot of awareness of the many dimensions of his herd of cows he knows them very well because he knows which ones he’s going to butcher to have put in his freezer. Kerry: Right, and this is where we get into, and you obviously also got into what you call the lizzies, but we’re talking about ‘dracos’ or reptilian beings. You have had interaction with them through the C’s, or at least... Laura: Well, I don’t know that we’ve had interaction with them or certainly acquired some information because you read these things. I have people under hypnosis that are telling me that they’re having interactions with reptilian beings if you take them into a hypnotic regression of an ‘alien abduction experience.' And they’re telling me about getting raped by a reptoid, well, I’m hearing these stories, I’m asking these questions and I’m going through all this stuff and so I’m going to ask the C’s about them. We did adopt very early on this term ‘lizzies’, I think that was from Barbara Marciniak, which we thought was such a handy term because it kinda diminished the terror. Because if you really think about it, it’s really kind of a terrifying thing to think that there are creatures that, apparently, according to the best information we’ve collected, circumstantial, no proof, but I’m giving it high probability because of the volume of witness testimony, that there are aliens and a lot of them eat human beings and they particularly prefer vegetarians who don’t smoke. So that there’s a big campaign, they’re influencing the governments of the world to ban smoking and there’s a strong influence coming down the pike, and you’re gonna see it, to minimise and eliminate the eating of meat even. Because you saw this, I mean the scares of mad cow disease and bird flue and the millions and millions of chickens that were destroyed, the millions of cows that were destroyed. And now they’re talking about cows contributing to global warming. Global warming which, by the way, is a crock because the C’s have been telling us since the 1990’s that we’re going into an ice age and that it’s going to be really serious. But that’s where we get to the topic that you’re interested in – 2012. Well 2012 is just an approximate marker, I think the number 2012 came from somebody’s interpretation of a Mayan calendar. And there are various interpretations of the Mayan calendar we don’t know that's necessarily the correct one. We also don’t even know if it meshes correctly with our own calendar because our own calendar has been changed more than once. But for general references it’s kind of like an approximate date, you know, close enough for horseshoes. Kerry: Well, ok, but you’re basically getting information from the C’s about not only, you were talking to them back in ’94, you were getting information about now, ok? And you're also getting information... Laura: And it’s happening Kerry: ..and you’re seeing it happening, and then you’re also getting information, in other words, going forward through whatever year – I don’t know how far forward you’re going? Laura: What year did they say things were really going to transition, what was year one, how many years forward is it? (Off Camera): It was five years about six months ago, so... Laura: Six months ago they said we have five years. Kerry: For? Laura: Before year one of the new reality. Kerry: Ok. Laura: And as you know, the way they put things, there’s ways you can interpret that. Either that’s the end, or it’s the beginning, or it’s both. And what it means in terms of a beginning – I think it’s up to us to create it. Kerry: And that’s very significant also. Laura: Yeah Kerry: But at the same time there are, there is a sort of a playing out of the scenarios and the agendas, for example, that they talked about in terms of the illimunati... Laura: Oh yeah. Kerry: ...and that has been put into effect Laura: Yeah, it’s happening. It’s happening, I mean the whole – they said that the frantic drive for control by these ‘lizard beings’ or these 4D self service individuals is going to become so oppressive that people are going to get to where they don’t want to leave their homes, and I think we’re kind of already there, for the most part, except for the ones who are being evicted from their homes because they don’t have homes to live in any more. Which is another horrible part of it, that’s their drive to control the money system. So they’re driving to control every single aspect of our lives, and there’s been the, at one point we asked about whether there was going to be any alien invasion, well I’ll tell you just off to the side here, who needs aliens when we’ve got psychopaths? Kerry: But the psychopaths are being motivated by hyperdimensional beings and also lizzies, and greys right? Who are on the 4th... Laura: Well greys are cybergenetic probes, they’re not even real beings, they’re almost like plant-like, living-like robots. They’re like a cross between a plant and a critter and they grow them like plants and they send them because they can function in our reality much more easily than the overlords, who have great difficulty making their vibrations match with our reality. They’ve also been working on hybridisation projects to hybridise beings that can cross densities, that can be bi-density, they can move between densities because they want to use these bodies themselves as incarnational opportunities when they, in a sense, to use them as portals into our world. Kerry: So, at this point, you're saying you went through like the fact that there are, there was pathological beings ok, and Laura: Well we didn’t start with pathological beings, we started asking them a lot about aliens and we got a lot of answers. and I have this little book called a 'High Strangeness' where I collected together all of the material on the subject of aliens and UFO’s and that sort of thing. And... Kerry: And I think that’s a great summation of your work, by the way. Laura: Yeah, on that topic at least, because there’s so much more, because me and my passion for history, these transcripts are just full of historical questions. Any mystery that I was curious about I had to ask. But in any event we started talking about aliens any time we would read something or see a video or hear about some new little bit of information, and this was back in the day when I sat down and read Val Valerian’s Matrix books 1 through 4 in a continuous sitting, it took a couple of weeks because they’re pretty thick, but I read it from cover to cover without stopping until my eyes literally bled because I couldn’t believe what I was reading. I mean oh my god this is crazy stuff! But, and I even make mention of the Matrix books having read them in the sessions because it was at that point in time. We had a lot of really unusual experiences, but then we got to the topic of pathology because the C’s kept trying to say there’s more to this phenomenon than you’re asking about, there’s more going on than your simplistic questions are allowing us to give to you and we had to really start expanding our thinking and expanding our possibilities. And we had experiences that led to the topics of pathology in human beings and how pathological human beings, and maybe pathology is even kind of a wrong word to use because if something is genetically born that way and it’s born that way for a purpose then how can we say that it’s pathological? It is what it is. Pathology implies that there’s a sickness. Well it’s sickness from the point of view of normal human beings. Human beings who care about one another that constitute the majority of humanity, or did, that’s rapidly changing because apparently, and according to the C’s, it seems to be happening before our eyes that they have been creating a ruthless race in which to incarnate themselves at the time of this upcoming macrocosmic quantum event so that they can rule over the rest of humanity. Whatever remains in the higher density state. In other words they want to lock this planet into their evil garden spot for them to have control and domination they think, of course, for all of eternity. That’s their plan, that’s their intention. And we would like to see that that doesn’t happen. We would like to see a future of freedom for people, and the C’s have said that also is possible. But the people can’t do it until they can connect together in a certain way, and they cannot connect together in a way that can block that hyperdimensional, in other words what we want to cut off their power supply. There are all these pathological people on our planet and they’re getting fuelled by these hyperdimensional negative beings that are negative. You can’t even plumb the depths of their negativity. You read about the most horrible crimes that have ever occurred committed by so called humans on this planet and you’re getting a little bit of the picture of what their internal landscape is like. Ok? So paedophilia, snuff films using children, cannibalism… Kerry: I can… we totally, exactly, we can allow people’s imaginations to... Laura: So that’s the kind of beings that they are trying to engineer. I want you to really understand how horrible a world it would be if they succeeded, because they would have total freedom to do whatever they wanted with any normal human being who has a soul, and who has a conscience, and to make them suffer as much as they possibly can in order to feed off that energy of suffering because that’s what they do they feed off of that energy of suffering. They are not psychopaths, they’re psychophages, they are soul eaters, they eat souls, they are light eaters, they eat it. So the C’s have said that there is a way that we can cut off the power supply of these pathologicals that are taking over our planet, but it involves connecting ourselves together in a very specific way, and I can’t give you all the exact details right now because I don’t have the text in front of me, but it involves clearing out your emotional garbage, getting free of your programs, the manipulated programs that have been put into you since you were born, cultural programs, religious programs, political programs and so on. But if humanity, because what they have done is they have divided us and conquered us this way. It’s like men against women, straights against gays, blacks against whites, hispanics against whites. All of these superficial differences that mean nothing, which have nothing to with the real, essential core difference which is the difference between an individual who has a soul, who has compassion and empathy for other human beings, and those who do not, that are, we’re calling them pathological, I explained that but we’ll use that for the sake of convenience. So the real difference is whether there is a soul or whether there isn’t a soul, and the story of how the blood got mixed is in our most ancient legends, that somewhere along the way there was a mutation, maybe it was a deliberate engineered being, or a group of them, that were put on this planet to spread these psychopathic genes throughout the population. These individuals, I mean – any family can produce a psychopath. Some more than others because the multiple strains come together, so it’s not a question of black or white, or any of those things, the question is souled or not souled? And even people, even the so called organic portals people who don’t have souls, just because they aren't individual souls doesn’t mean that they’re bad either, it just that they’re more subsceptible to being used by the negative forces. Because they follow the leader, and who’s the leader on our world? Psychopathic individuals in positions of power. So we have a chance, we can, and the C’s have given us techniques, specific instructions. We have been putting them into practice. We have a breathing and meditation program that is specifically designed, the C’s have said that this program is even more ancient than anything you could ever learn from yoga, that it is the same techniques that were used by the palaeolithic peoples who built the megaliths, who put the megaliths together the ones who did cave paintings. These people had stable societies. There was no warfare on the planet. The archaeology does not show violence and warfare for 25,000 years. 25,000 years these people lived in basically what was an edenic state and then there was a cataclysm, a catastrophe about 13,000 years ago. The megafauna all over North America and Europe was destroyed in a single instant, and another ice age was initiated. It was a temporary one, it was a shorter one than the long one we had just come out of. But this was the time, I believe, that the mutations that we now deal with, the psychopathy mutations, originated and they began at that point. Kerry: Ok, are you talking about before Atlantis, or after? Laura: Well, I would say that probably that is what was remembered as the Atlantean deluge. And I just finished reading a really marvellous book that collects the legends and myths from eastern Europe and from central Asia and from even northern Europe and compares them one to another because most of us, all we know about is the oriental or the middle eastern thing. The bible story of the flood, and the bible story of the flood is rather a latecomer. It’s been highly edited and modified. There are some really ancient stories of this event and they come from native American, from Australian, the aborigines, you have stories from Pacific islanders, you have south American stories, there are a lot of stories that are much older and more authentic than what this highly edited and sanitised version that we get from the Bible. Which has permeated our culture. We need to learn about this because this happened. And there is a lot of scientific work on this like Victor Clube and Bill Napier and right now there’s Richard Firestone, Alan West, and Simon Warwick-Smith who wrote the book 'Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes' about this event, there’s a lot of science being done that validates everything the C’s have said about these events. And, of course, these guys they don’t want to know that some so called channelled source, me in the future called the Cassiopaeans, talked about what they are proving scientifically. Kerry: Right Laura: But there it is. Kerry: But, actually that’s an interesting question to think about which is whether or not, and your husband, how do you say it Arkadiusz?, is that how you say his name? Laura: Just call him Ark Kerry: Ark, Ok Laura: I found the Ark Kerry: I hear you. How Ark, he would deal with the science end of things right? Laura: He’s working on this, he’s working on a lot of the things, a lot of clues that the C’s have given. Mathematical clues about modeling dimensions and densities and gravity and those sorts of things. He’s making excellent progress, I don’t want to talk about that too much but he’s making some really good progress with that. We do have, and I’ll say, science has been taken over by pathology too. There are many good scientists who are interested in these topics, who are interested in the paranormal, who are interested in what we’re doing. And, believe it or not, we get together with them and talk about the C’s. I get emails from people across the world who are doing real scientific research and they ask me “what do the C’s think about this?” Of course I would never bring their names out in public, I would not embarrass, I would not cause them problems with their institution. I mean come on, Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize winner, started talking about the paranormal and the rumors started immediately. Propagated like wildfire in the scientific community that he was having a nervous breakdown and he needed a long rest. This is what happens because in science, they do not allow consciousness that exists outside the body to be demonstrated as a demonstrable fact. I don't say that we are ever going to prove it in any satisfactory material way a non-material phenomenon. But we can demonstrate that that's the way it is. I mean if you're sitting there on the side of the road and people keep walking by you on the road and they say around the bend there, they just crossed a bridge over a river and you, for some reason, can't get up and walk and go around the bend, but 500 people have passed by and some of them even said 'I stoppped and got my feet wet' and you see them with wet feet, or 'I fell off the bridge into the river' and they are soaking wet. And all of these people are walking by you telling you about this river and this bridge, that's pretty convincing that that bridge actually exists and that river is actually there. Maybe you can even hear the rushing water. And maybe you can hear steamboats or people splashing in the water. You can't see it with your eyes. You haven't put your foot in it yourself. But it is convincing. That's how the paranormal is. That's how paranormal events are. Kerry: Absolutely, and that’s actually what we are doing here, today. We are talking to a witness of these events, okay, of this information, and actually that’s our portal into the unknown, are the people, we are actually portals in essence, bringing back information about what cannot be seen in this reality, this 3D, materialistic reality. And so we’ve got to move beyond it and we’ve got to use the eyes that we have and the senses that we have, and we certainly have more than the traditional number of, what is it they say you have, five senses, I don’t even know. Laura: Supposedly five. Kerry: I’m so used to so many more, being part of my understanding. Laura: Part of the problem there is, is that paranormal phenomena are like macro-cosmic, quantum phenomena. In the quantum world, you can observe momentum or position, never both at once. I mean, once you observe momentum, you’ve changed position and vice-versa. So the materialists, and I think that there should be some type of testing process to determine if an individual has a soul or not before they are allowed to become a scientist. I’m sorry, but I think that people without a soul, who also don’t have a conscience should not be in positions of authority in any spirit activity. But, they say, “Oh you’ve got to prove, you’ve got to be repeatable.” Well, how repeatable is it observing the same atom in the same momentum or position, over and over again in a laboratory. It’s absolutely, utterly, even theoretically impossible. Yet they want to impose that demand on paranormal phenomena. Phenomena that are non-physical. That are basically macro-cosmically quantum. And Carl Sagan “Well extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.” Well, come on, if this were a murder trial in a court of law, there would already have been a hanging. I mean hundreds of years ago, how did we go so wrong? Because pathological’s took over our government, took over our religion, took over our society, took over our education. They completely removed spirit, consciousness, soul from the entire equation. We live in a post-modernist, rational world where being human means to be a machine. Kerry: Exactly, absolutely. Laura: And even if I’m scientific, and I want evidence, but, I want evidence that gives me probabilities because I know, I understand my phenomena, and I have experienced it. And let me tell you a funny little story before we close here. There was a linguist, who got in touch with me. And he was interested in my book 'Secret History' because I get into some linguistics in there. He wrote to me because he found my book at this Fortean Times convention, or unconvention. And, we had a few little exchanges, and he didn’t like a certain book that I had cited as being a very interesting read, which is ‘Where Troy Once Stood’ by a fellow named Iman Wilkins. Great book! And I think that what he’s proposing in there, while it may not be exact as to timing, and it may not be exact as to every single detail, but I think that what he is proposing is basically a very valid hypothesis. That Troy did not exist in the Mediterranean. That Troy existed in the area, in an area in England. And, that all of these difficulties that scholars have had for years trying to figure out, what Homer was talking about with his wine dark sea and these weird sailing directions and these weird places was because all of these things took place in a different place and different time. Of course the archaeology does not bare out Troy in the Mediterranean. I mean, if there is a Troy then it was certainly not as described by Homer. So, we were talking about Iman Wilkens book, highly recommended if you can get a copy. And Iman, I know I don’t get any kickbacks. But, we went back and forth, and I explained to him that the main thesis of the book is to talk about this underlying, hyper-dimensional reality that is behind our history. And how it extrudes itself into the historical timeline, and how you can observe these long, historical events and see the movement of that hyper-dimensional energy, through the actions of humans beings, through historical cycles, through the behaviour of groups of people, through the manipulations, things emerge. And, so he came back, well he never experienced anything and blah, blah, blah, and I was talking about something that you couldn’t prove. And I realized I could into a whole long debate with this guy, and I could cite all of this evidence. If he really wanted it, it’s there, go to a library, look it up in the card catalogue, read the books. If you haven’t read the books, don’t talk to me. It’s like the guy who was putting down Rupert Sheldrake who hadn’t even read his book. Kerry: Sure. Laura: Don’t do it! So I said I’m not going to get into this argument, I’m not going to engage, I’m not going to give this guy my energy. I just wrote him back and told him what I said awhile ago, that I realized after a long period of observation that there were two basic kinds of people on the planet, people who believed in souls and people who didn’t. Kerry: Okay. Laura: And I had explained to him that we have all been programmed with this Judeo-Christian thing about ‘all have souls, all have sins and come short in the glory of God’, or whatever. And it permeates everything. It permeates even Science. A scientist cannot grow up in our society and do science without having it influenced by this Judeo-Christian worldview. It pollutes everything we think, do and say. So, I said this to him, and he wrote back “Well, I’m anti-religion.” And I wrote back, and I pointed out, because he talked to me about etymology, I said, just think about the fact that you were just criticizing these etymologies, which is finding out word roots. And I said where do you get your etymologies? “Well Hebrew and Greek.” I said okay, and if you read the Bible and you understand where these etymologies come from, you understand they made shit up to explain the origin of words that according to the way they wanted it to be made up. The whole foundation of your science is based on something that is made up and can’t be trusted. So I said, the whole problem is that there are two kinds of people, those who have souls and who have the experiences that I have had. I cannot convey to you my experiences. If you haven’t had them, you haven’t had them. And there is no way that I can convey it to you. Kerry: Sure. Laura: There's 10,000 people can tell you they have them, but if you don’t have them and have never had them, you can’t know what they are talking about. It’s like somebody talking about the color blue and green, and the differences to someone who is blue-green color blind. Okay, you don’t have a soul, you can’t, you don’t see those colors. You’ll never see it, you can’t understand it. So there’s those kinds of people. So I told him, you’re probably one of those that doesn’t have it, so for you it’s true. You have never had those experiences, you will never have those experiences. Many people had them, I have had them, many other people have had them. For us it’s real, for you it isn’t. Because there’s two kinds of people, those who have souls and those who don’t. Well, let me tell you what, this member of the skeptic society, this totally scientific, post-modernist, rationalist, linguist, who bought my book, no doubt so he could criticize it, wrote back and said “How dare I suggest that he didn’t have a soul!” The thing that he denied existed, he now wanted to have! Kerry: Exactly, yes. Laura: Isn’t that amazing! Kerry: Well, it actually makes sense. The trouble is, with this, the pathological individuals, whatever you want to call, the ones that are basically service to self, the ones that will, do not have souls, the ones that are service to self and don’t have souls, because there are service to self that do have souls... Laura: Right. Kerry: ...and are working through an evolution of going back to who they once were. But, in essence, those beings are also claiming to have souls because they want to fit in, and so they are some of the most rabid fundamentalists and whatever, because they are actually almost mimicking what they think a being with a soul would be. Laura: I mean, it’s really... Kerry: So you get into a huge, it is a hall of mirrors out there. So discernment is absolutely, I mean in other words if you have a soul, it’s not something that you can, again, how do you prove it? Laura: How do you prove it. Kerry: Yeah. Laura: You can’t prove it. Kerry: That’s actually the nature of what we are talking about. Laura: It’s like the river around the bend. You can hear intonations of it, you can see some bits of evidence that keep coming around, the people that keep telling you the story and people have their feet wet or their clothes wet. Kerry: Yeah, is it, and they’re all different, because there are so many disguises that we are talking about, that beings and humans, so-called humans wear and so on. So, we’re talking about some people think that because a person behaves in a certain way, that means they’re a good person and they have a soul. Laura: No. No, remember that... Kerry: And actually, it’s the ones that... Laura: Evil insinuates itself by being, appearing to be good. I mean, human beings have an intra-species predator that mimics them. Think about the guy down in Australia that was found out for being a complete fraud, a complete psychopath and he had for years he had been, like a philanthropist, and he had funded organizations that helped battered women or helped children or whatever, and it turns out that he was the biggest pedophile and woman batterer of them all. Because, that is the essence of a psychopath; a mask. They have a public life and a private life. And that’s why, we make the distinction between psychopaths and anti-social personalities. In a way, the psychopath is ultimately anti-social, but you will never see it on the outside. It is covert. It is hidden. They truly are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Kerry: Yes, absolutely. And I think that, whereas that appears to be really disheartening information for people to get. I think it is among one of the most valuable things that you are doing and that you are revealing to people. Laura: It’s empowering. Kerry: In other words, it is the fact that the dark side has a face, but it’s a face that looks like light, and that if there is any single thing that I think that you are bringing to the table that is missed, in especially, the community, the new-age community, however you want to look at it. That’s probably the biggest thing. Laura: Yeah, because how many people in the new-age community are psychopaths, you know? Because it’s wide open. It’s unregulated. It’s a place where people are looking for answers, are looking for Guru’s, are looking for somebody to lead them. They’re looking for everything that the psychopath says “I can give that to you, I can give you what your, just believe in me, just do whatever, pay me your money, come... Kerry: Absolutely. Laura: ...to my sessions or whatever.” This is, in a sense, one of the reason’s I’ve been so reclusive. I don’t want to go down that path. Kerry: So, absolutely. We’re going to have to wind this up at some point here, but I do want to give you a chance to talk about, for example, one of the things that you are doing here is smoking on camera, and I’d like you to talk about smoking and a little bit more about that, because you have a philosophy about that. Laura: Well, it’s more than a philosophy. I mean, the Native Americans used tobacco in a sacred sort of way. And the reason they did, was because they knew that the use of tobacco helped them connect to their higher self, their inner self, their ancestors, if you want to call them that. But, it helped them to tune in to what was really going on. To see. To perceive. Kerry: But there is a reason for that. There is actually chemicals... Laura: There is. Because when you smoke tobacco, it increases, it mimics acetylcholine. Which is the neurotransmitter that is produced by thinking, really by the act of thinking. It’s also produced by other activities, but this is one of the main things it does. And it also stabilizes your Parasympathetic Nervous System. Because when you stimulate the Vagus Nerve, which is one of the things that I teach in my breathing program, it also causes the body to produce acetylcholine, which puts you in a state of calm, alertness. It stabilizes you. It relieves your stress. So, what is more natural for the ‘Powers that Be’ to do, than to deprive us of one of our most convenient and useful tools. It’s like they made a movie about the Exorcist, they took ouija boards away, because everyone is scared of that, and they made them terrified, it’s almost a parallel phenomena. Kerry: It's fascinating. Laura: They terrified people of ever using a ouija board. Now everyone is going around saying “Huh, ouija board! Oh, ouija boards! Oh my God. And it haunted, and I burned it because when I used it there were all kinds of things happening.” And then, the same thing with tobacco. I mean the campaign and the lies about tobacco. Now, let me say right up front, that the chemicals that are put in to many cigarettes, if not most of them, you know, burning agents and so forth that they put in to flavor them or to make them burn longer, some of the things in the papers, those things are definitely evil. But, let me tell you what, the worst thing you get from smoking a cigarette is a teeny, tiny amount of cadmium. Yes, cadmium is a carcinogen. But you know what, you get more cadmium riding in your car to the supermarket, breathing the air outside, than you can get from smoking cigarettes. And if you read the book, 'Detoxify or Die' by Sherry Rogers, which is a great book, she’s compiled a lot of great evidence. You’ll notice that she does mention it, but she mentions in passing, en passant, that the amount of toxicity that you get from a cigarette is so small compared to what you’re getting from your food, from the exudate, from your carpets, from your clothes, from using plastic cook wear, from using Teflon, from the air, from the combustion engines on the road, from factories. Just about everything in your environment is totally deadly and poisonous, not to mention the gender bender chemicals that are in plastics, mercury that’s in vaccinations. Kerry: Also, we have to talk about the mind. You know, the role of the mind. Laura: All those things are poisoning your mind. Kerry: The role of the way people are thinking is also what creates disease, because that’s what would get to the root of what causes, for example, cancer. Laura: Well, what changes your thinking? Your chemistry. What changes your chemistry? What you put in your body. And, let’s face it, we can’t avoid, we cannot. We did not evolve in an environment that was as toxic as the one we live in. And the toxins that are out there, our systems cannot keep up with it. Everybody is a little bit different. Some people have better detox systems. The liver, the kidney’s are your detox system, and some people have very sensitive ones. Did you know that there is 40 million people in the United States that suffer from auto-immune diseases that are caused by chemical toxicity? From clothing, paint, preservatives, pesticides, household cleaners, whenever you clean anything. Look at my video on the topic and you’ll see that this is just an incredible problem. So, it’s handy to have a scapegoat. Cigarettes are the scapegoat. If you’re sick it’s because of cigarettes. Okay, well most people stopped smoking. Okay, it’s second-hand smoke. Okay, it’s third-hand smoke. Pretty soon, it’s going to be, you’re going to get sick and die from imaginary smoke. I mean, it’s going to be like terrorism, we’ve got to go and kill those people because they might think about becoming terrorists at some point. So, the whole thing is that, neurochemistry is a very delicately balanced thing, and it can’t be balanced if you’re in a situation where your fight or flight mechanism is turned on continuously, repeatedly, because you are afraid. People are so stressed. Depression is a killer. People are dying of depression. Look at the number of people in the United States that are on anti-depressants. People that are going off and shooting and killing their families or their friends, or whatever. This is a serious problem. And it’s because people are not smoking, they don’t have outlets, they don’t have anything to help them balance this other toxicity. Because, at least if you are in a toxic state, and you’re toxified from having been outside. You went into a Walmart, which is so loaded with chemicals you should drop dead upon walking in the door. Kerry: Absolutely. Laura: And you get out of there and you light a cigarette. And the cigarette gives you enough acetylcholine to stabilize your brain so that you don’t fall over dead and you can get your detox system going. But they’ve deprived you of that. They’ve deprived people of nearly everything that could help them to stabilize or deal with the environment. And not only that, but they’re poisoning their food. Kerry: Well and then we’re not even talking about chemtrail’s here. Laura: Don’t even go there. I mean, we’re talking about what’s in the everyday food, the everyday water, your dental amalgams, the fillings in your teeth. Kerry: Well, also, electromagnetic. I mean, smog, is basically what we’re talking about. Laura: Electromagnetic radiation! The worst thing, the absolute worst thing, the microwave radiation from your cell phones! People are walking with these things stuck to their head. And do you know there are oncologists who will not use cell phones because they know that they cause brain cancer? They won’t let their children use them. But they wont make a statement against them publicly, because if they did, the medical establishment, which is owned and run by pathologicals, by psychopaths, would destroy their careers. Kerry: Sure. Yeah, it’s an amazing thing. Laura: I mean, everywhere you look, you see the evidence of pathology in control, you see the evidence of normal human-beings being beaten down, controlled. Everything taken away from them. Now they are taking their homes away from them. They’ve taken their money away from them. They’ve taken away your right to privacy. You’ve got to go and show yourself naked to get on an airplane. It is the lizards drive for total control, that is manifesting in these pathological people on our planet. And if you think aliens are the problem, okay, yeah, maybe they are, but who needs aliens when we’ve got psychopaths to deal with. Kerry: Okay Laura, any last minute, because we do need to wind this up. It’s been fabulous, and I really value and appreciate your insight, your willingness to have such an open mind and your willingness to speak outright about it, and truthfully. And I think that this is something that we need more of, okay, and that’s why I’ve asked you to come forward today. But is there anything else? Why don’t you talk a little bit about what you are going to be packaging into DVD’s for people. And then give your websites. Laura: We’re going to, we’ve already done. We’ve got this breathing program. We’ve got people that are going to be teaching the breathing program, because one of the techniques really is a little bit tricky. And, even though I teach it on the video, and I go into it in several ways approaching it so that you can get a complete picture how to do this breathing program. It’s still really is good to have a teacher. And we’re having the teachers coming here. And this is a breathing technique that I developed. And it’s the one I used, that took me very quickly into these really amazing meditative experiences and really kind of brought on those shamanic initiation. And the C’s were kind of the result of this breathing program, if you really go down, get back to it. So, we've got that kind of packaged up. We’re going to be making a version of it that we are going to try and distribute as cheaply as possible, if not free. If we can get enough financial support, we are going to distribute it to soldiers. Come on, let’s face it. If people start getting in touch with their higher selves, if they start breathing properly and learning how to stimulate the Vagus Nerve and get acetylcholine in their bodies. If they start learning how to do some of these things, they’re going to be able to become more understanding of one another, and they are going to be able to get together with another, and they are going to be able to see things shamanically that they could not see before. And they are going to be able to see where the real enemy is. Kerry: For sure, and discern Truth when they're training. Laura: And discern Truth. It is a program that will definitely bump up your discernment levels rapidly. I mean, we’ve got people that have been doing it now since the summer, and some of them had, almost immediate results. Some of them have taken a little longer, but every single one is having gradual, incremental improvements in not only how they cope with their lives, but they are having these wonderful, these marvelous experiences with their own selves, their own higher selves, and that’s really a beautiful thing to see. Kerry: What I would like to tap into here at the very end, is talking about what we are looking at in the near future in terms of what is set before you, why you are doing what you are doing right now. Because we are actually talking about a transition, in which getting into that place of higher consciousness is so important. Laura: Okay, it is important, because the C’s have said, that yes, we are coming up on, what they call the Wave. They have been talking about the Wave since 1994. Okay, so we’ve been talking about this, and publishing this. And other people have picked up these terms, and they’ve been whatever, but anyhow, we’ve been talking about this since 1994. And the thing is, is it is kind of like a macro-cosmic quantum wave collapse, and the reality on the other side of this collapse is going to depend upon the state in which humanity is in. We need a large number, a huge number of people who are in the right state of being able to ‘see’. It’s not where you are that matters when this happens, it’s who you are and what you see. Who you are means, are you souled, and what you see means, can you really see the energies. And that’s what this program is really designed to do. It’s to take people to that state of being able to be in touch with their own higher self, their own ‘me in the future.’ Kerry: That’s right. And we need a critical mass. Laura: We need a critical mass. Kerry: In order for us to make this transition in a positive way, in order for the Earth and humanity. Laura: Right, because I said before, their plan is to lock it into their little, their little, private, evil garden, where they rule over humanity and have their, it’s Bosch’s garden of earthly delights. Kerry: Right, but part of the manifestation of going into the Wave, and this change that is going to happen, and this is one other part of your work which is really important, which is this comet cluster that is part of that, coming, we’re entering this area and it’s coming towards us. Laura: Ah yes you want me to talk about, okay, as I said, a macro-cosmic, quantum wave collapse cannot happen other than cataclysmically. However, there are possibilities that we have toyed with, that if there is a sufficient amount of conscious energy that supports it, the possibility that the Earth can be spared some of this real serious cataclysms exists. So, I don’t want to give false hope. I only know, that after all this research, I know the science. The science says it’s going to happen. That’s the hard science. There’s going to be the day. It’s already happening. The magnetic field is degenerating. That means magma is going to start welling up under the oceans. It’s already happening because it’s heating the oceans up. When the oceans start heating up, that means more evaporation. When that happens at the same time that the planet is being clouded by volcanic eruptions, which is cooling the atmosphere, you have precipitation that comes down as snow. The geological record shows that the onset of every ice-age was so sudden as to be unbelievable. In other words, next winter could be the winter when a lot of undersea volcanoes begin to erupt and dump magma into the oceans. A lot of evaporation takes place. If it happens in the winter time that means that snow can fall in amounts that are beyond your wildest imagining. It’s happened! It’s geologically a fact. It’s happened repeatedly. Can you imagine 9 stories of snow in a single day? Kerry: Incredible. Laura: I mean, what if one day your sitting there in your house and it starts to snow, and your thinking “Oh we’re going to get snowed in, and tomorrow we’ll have to get the shovels out and we’ll have to shovel the snow”, and you wake up the next day and you’re under 9 stories of snow that has compacted into solid ice. And it never stops snowing and it never warms up again. Think about it. That can happen. And it can happen at any time. Kerry: Okay... Laura: That’s the science. Kerry: I understand. But, there’s also a comet cluster headed this way, so talk about that. Laura: Yeah and that can happen. Now, the science shows that there was, in the past, a giant comet that broke up into pieces and it terrorized people in the skies. These are the origins of religions. Read Victor Clube and Bill Napier, 'Cosmic Serpent' and 'Cosmic Winter'. Read Firestone. There’s a lot of material. Kerry: But the C’s have also talked about this. Laura: They were talking about this in the very beginning, before I ever came to these books that talked about this. Now, Clube and Napier had written about their 'Cosmic Serpent' and so forth, but kind of in a different way. Those books were not available to me at the time that the C’s were talking about it. So only as I continued to do research that I came upon the fact that there is an enormous amount of scientific validation of what they have insisted is what’s going to happen. That there is a cluster of comets in our solar system that cycles around, and it’s coming our way. Kerry: Many people mistake Nibiru for this. Laura: This whole Nibiru, planet X business, that's all distraction, disinformation, to distract you from the real science. And the real science is that these things, most of them, many of them, can't be seen until they impact because they are like, carbonaceous bodies that have the ice burned off of them, and they hit the atmosphere and they explode. Can you imagine having thousands of Tunguska-like events all over the planet? The earth is turning and these things are coming like this, and they enter the atmosphere and explode. I mean look at the Carolina Bays. There were bays in Tunguska that resemble the Carolina Bays. They are from overhead explosions, of this matter, and they cause this elongated shallow formation in the ground from a shockwave hitting the ground. Ok, how many of them are there in America, the Carolina Bays? There's hundreds of thousands of them, and that's the time of the extinction of the megafauna. And there are hundreds of thousands of dinosaur bones, or not dinosaur, but mastodon, and mammoth, and all of these creatures. And mammoths that were frozen standing on their feet, solid, because they happened to be there when this, because when this happened it also caused many volcanic eruptions and these volcanoes were heating the ocean, the water was evaporating as fast as it could evaporate and then the clouding of the atmosphere and the explosions and everything were cooling everything down, and then there were these violent storms, very similar to this 'Day After Tomorrow', or the ultimate storm. This was written about in a book years ago called The Mother of Storms. I mean, later on Whitley Streiber, and what's his face, they wrote a book about it, but the whole idea that they were writing about was originally written about in this book 'Mother of Storms.' So imagine these things happening, and this is basically the scenario that the C's have painted. But they've said we can possibly do something. The science supports what they are saying. That's the bad news. The bad news is that the science supports what the C's have said. Kerry: Ok. But we are also taking about actually this span of years when we are actually getting, we're arriving in it, at this time. I know the C's are taking about it, back in, even when you first were contacting them, but around 94, so here we are in 2010, so we're moving into this time, and then you're saying that the last time you talked to them there was a five year window between the change, so to speak. Laura: We have a five year window in which to do something. Kerry: Because the Camelot witnesses, we have a lot of witnesses, that are also substantiating this information. And so what's happening is we're moving into this event horizon, so to speak, in which we are going to approach a time in which consciousness may be the only thing that saves us. Laura: This is true. Kerry: And so that's why we're doing this interview and that's really where push comes to shove because that's what we want people to understand that it's not only that there are events happening, but that you need to prepare yourself in a certain way and that's what you are working towards at this time. Laura: And that's what we are working towards. We have people that are going to be teaching this breathing program. The meditation is very, very specific, it's designed to activate, for a person who doesn't have a soul, it's going to help them a lot, because it is going to help them understand their, it's gonna awaken their thirst for knowledge, at least, and help them grow, because people who don't you know they can grow to the point where eventually they transition to having a soul, eventually. They can build one maybe, but for people who have the shamanic bloodline, and there are many shamans in the world today who have not been activated, this will activate their true [shamanism], and we are not talking ayahuasca or any of that 'Supernatural' BS, because a true shaman doesn't need a drug. And the shamanic experiences you have without drugs, are so amazing, I mean I've had them. I have read about these people who try the drug way, nothing they have experienced, nothing they have described, even touches what happens with the natural brain chemistry when you are in the shamanic initiation. So don't buy that, this is a technique that is really gonna, really gonna awaken true shamans, and other people, it will put them in touch with yourself in the future, in a very real way, and it will clean out your emotional baggage, your programming, ... Kerry: And get rid of stress, and the fear, because we're talking, we're living in a world now where actually the powers that be... Laura: They want us afraid. Kerry: They want fear, to be part of our, and it is, part of everyday life, and so that, these, this breathing technique, especially, is moving towards getting rid of, being able to deal with the fear. Laura: Yup. And the reports... Kerry: Getting rid would, maybe the wrong way to put it, because fear is a good thing. Laura: Getting into a state of alert watchfulness. Kerry: Exactly. Laura: Because having fear when you're being threatened, your fight or flight mechanism Kerry: This is what's gonna save your life. It's turning that fear into this positive thing, action, and that becomes courage. Laura: To be able to know what to do, yeah. Kerry: and so these techniques could be very valuable. Laura: These techniques are gonna, hey the feedback we've been getting has been marvelous, it's been wonderful, we never dreamed, or I never dreamed, I mean geez, if I had known it was gonna, you know I created it just for myself, it never occurred to me somebody else could do it, or would do it or that I could take this technique and I could teach it to other people and that they would be having similar experiences. I mean I never thought, I mean, it's like one of those things where you go du-uh! Because all this time that's been wasted, I mean, since 1994, and maybe part of that is because of my lack of confidence in being, sharing these things and maybe that was part of the program that they tried to put into me that we talked about at the beginning, to prevent me from sharing this with people because it is that powerful, it really is that powerful. Kerry: Ok, Laura thank you very much... Laura: Thank you. Kerry: ... for your service to humanity.